Torque response and Tq Control Tables

[Rhino79]

Anyone have any insight on how these tables can be modified to see instant throttle opening in the E78 and E39 naturally aspirated engines? I have done some newer trucks with the e78 and just can't get the throttle to open until about 2500 rpms or so.

[ScarabEpic22]

Have you tried deleting all the TM on the trans side? JUST as a test to make sure that's not limiting you.

I havent tuned any E78s yet, hoping that will change by end of summer with a new "test"/DD vehicle.

[GMPX]

Rhino79, it seems to follow a desired MAP value, the system tries to keep the throttle shut as much as possible whilst maintaining 100kPa on a NA motor. It appears to be controlled by the Torque Model tables, I've copied in the tables from a Turbo Buick in to a 3.0L SIDI V6 and the throttle response was amazing, except it was at full throttle by 1/4 pedal, not nice to drive but proved the point and there was no problems getting 100% blade opening below 3,000 RPM.
The Cruze also doesn't suffer from restricted throttle opening, seems to only be the N/A cars. But I bet if you log the MAP you'll find it's at 100kPa (or close enough) the whole time.

[Rhino79]

This is true ross. What ever it is will allow 100% throttle at 2500 rpm, no matter what the gear. And I did try deleting tq mgt, but this is clearly a tq response or tq coefficient thing because these newer ecms are the only ones that hate me....lol. Same thing on our turbo car. I will look for a trade in at work that I can spend some time with to find out what will fix it.

[GMPX]

If you log it, you will find MAP is at 100kPa (or close enough), that is why it won't open it any further. From GM's perspective, there is less intake noise (they have to watch that), it allows much faster reaction for traction control situations.

[Rhino79]

So there is a value in the tq response parameters that is Desired Maximum map, you think bumping that to say 120 or 130 on a naturally aspirated engine will let it target higher and open the throttle all the way to try and see that map?

[GMPX]

Actually I don't know if that is the case, it just appears that way.
I remember when we first started playing with the E39's years ago we were logging a DMA PID we had set up which was like a target MAP value (I really should have written this down!) and on a NA based tune this usually hovered around 98 Kpa at WOT and if the MAP read 98Kpa then it didn't seem to matter where the throttle was at, it was happy. However with the Torque model tables from a Buick 2.0L Turbo in a N/A car we saw that target MAP value up way higher, like 180 kPa, the result was the throttle would open to 100% because the ECM was only seeing 100kPa at best on the N/A motor. Unfortunately the car was really horrible to drive like this.

[Boost]

Have you tried deleting all the TM on the trans side? JUST as a test to make sure that's not limiting you.

I havent tuned any E78s yet, hoping that will change by end of summer with a new "test"/DD vehicle.

I will try that as soon as my T76 is supported. Very happy so far, just patiently waiting and hoping that enough of these get released to make it worth the trouble. I know it's no fun. But I would have got the stick if not for hopes of TCM tuning.

Erik if you want to try anything funky I'd be more than willing to test it in my E39A or E78. I can send log / video / impressions as feedback :w00t:

[ScarabEpic22]

I will try that as soon as my T76 is supported. Very happy so far, just patiently waiting and hoping that enough of these get released to make it worth the trouble. I know it's no fun. But I would have got the stick if not for hopes of TCM tuning.

Erik if you want to try anything funky I'd be more than willing to test it in my E39A or E78. I can send log / video / impressions as feedback :w00t:

Nice Roland, Im waiting for the 2013 Sonic reads I sent in to be supported, I believe it has to do with a slight restructure of the V7.5 Tune tool to handle it (thats what I remember reading on here).

Im pretty dead set on getting a new Sonic, just waiting to take care of a housing situation in the next few weeks then Ill order one... :D

[GMPX]

My 'unsupported' pile grows daily, oh the fun :Eyecrazy:

[ScarabEpic22]

My 'unsupported' pile grows daily, oh the fun :Eyecrazy:

Wait til the rest of the 14s start coming out...:rolleyes:

[slammed39]

There is a max throttle area % vs RPM table in these e39/e78 ecms. I believe it is set to 37% area under 2400rpm on the e78 silverados. Efilive should add this table in.

[GMPX]

Yes, that table is in the next update, but I think I tried that earlier on with my 3.0L and it didn't seem to fix the problem, we'll see, the L96 might be different.
I know it's set to 100% for the Cruze and that certainly doesn't suffer and throttle limiting, but then I put that down to it being boosted.

[slammed39]

Yes, that table is in the next update, but I think I tried that earlier on with my 3.0L and it didn't seem to fix the problem, we'll see, the L96 might be different.
I know it's set to 100% for the Cruze and that certainly doesn't suffer and throttle limiting, but then I put that down to it being boosted.

The MAP still limits the throttle opening , but I do get snapper throttle with this table maxed out. The LEA ecotec project I'm working on will hit 99 map at around 60% throttle area at tip in. So there is something to be gained if these values are below what is needed to hit max MAP at low rpms.

[GMPX]

I just checked the stock LFW Tune, that has the table maxed at 100% the whole way, but will not give 100% throttle below whatever it is, 3000RPM or so. But does allow 100kPa MAP at WOT from idle up. It's a table we never added because it always seemed to be maxed out, I guess on the L96 they are using it for basic throttle limiting.

[slammed39]

On the LEA it's restricted to 6% gradually increasing to 35% by 2400rpm, basically being used as a throttle tip in torque reduction.

[GMPX]

Right you are on the 2.4L, that is ugly! Sorry, I'd just never seen one before set to anything other than 100%.

LABELS Torque Limiting, Max Throttle vs RPM (%)
RPM Value
0 6.011963
400 6.011963
800 6.011963
1200 11.999512
1600 31.011963
2000 35.000610
2400 39.001465
2800 85.000610
3200 100.000000
3600 100.000000
4000 100.000000
4400 100.000000
4800 100.000000
5200 100.000000
5600 100.000000
6000 100.000000
6400 100.000000

[Rhino79]

Ross, is this the table we need added on na e39 and e78 applications????????

[GMPX]

It will be in the next update, as I mentioned I decided not to add it because it seemed every calibration I looked at seemed to have it set to 100%.

[Boost]

Good discovery, I look forward to it guys! I know this and similar tables can make a huge difference on V8s