Trouble With CalcVET

[SLP IROC-Z]

I finally finished setting up calcvet and calibrating my FS2 to my lm1 wbo2. I setup an OL speed density tune and did some data logging, i set the tune up rich for obvious reasons but after starting to build a new VE table my car leaned out more and more. eventually i called it quits because it was hitting 17:1 barely accelerating :w00t:. Being the newb i am i decided to post here for help. here is my calculated VE table and log file. Any help is greatly appreciated.

1535615357
15358

Edit: I just changed part of the calc pids to "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{EXT.WO2LC11}/14.7" from "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{EXT.WO2LAM1}" when i was data logging. was that the issue??

[joecar]

You want to build a map of CALC.VET not CALC.VEN...

but the map you show of CALC.VEN contains bad data (it is low by a factor of 10).

[joecar]

You really should connect your LM-1 to your V2 using a serial comms cable (with a null modem adapter), and avoid the analog interface.

[joecar]

Your log shows 25 pid channels, this halves the data sample rate, you want the most data for tuning... remove a pid (e.g. remove these: LONGFTAVG1, LONGFTAVG2).

[joecar]

Something is going on with your MAF in the range 5500-6525 Hz... post a pic of the MAF table you're starting from.

[joecar]

Your PE is commanding lean at any load <-- this is BAD

(looks like your tunetool has swapped Lambda/EQR units)...

in tunetool, go Edit>Properties and set fueling units to EQR, exit tunetool and reopen it,

then go and fix B3618 PE table and B3605 and/or B3647 OLFA table (at load you want to command EQR 1.165)...

remember to save file.


edit: correction.

[joecar]

Also, your DAT is high... from where are you getting air into the MAF...?

[joecar]

ALSO: your MAF is failed (MAF DTC is present)... this means you cannot do Calc.VET


with MAF disabled you should be doing Calc.MAFT


see post #29 here: Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)

[joecar]

If you want to do Calc.VET (you should, at least initially) the enable the MAF.

[SLP IROC-Z]

You want to build a map of CALC.VET not CALC.VEN...

but the map you show of CALC.VEN contains bad data (it is low by a factor of 10).


You really should connect your LM-1 to your V2 using a serial comms cable (with a null modem adapter), and avoid the analog interface.
Im going to leave the wideband the way it is for now so atleast i can figure out how to get this to work then ill worry about making it perfect.



Your log shows 25 pid channels, this halves the data sample rate, you want the most data for tuning... remove a pid (e.g. remove these: LONGFTAVG1, LONGFTAVG2).

ill remove unneccesary pids.


Something is going on with your MAF in the range 5500-6525 Hz... post a pic of the MAF table you're starting from.

its a stock maf table for a zo6 vette (85mm maf)


Your PE is commanding lean at any load <-- this is BAD

(looks like your tunetool has swapped Lambda/EQR units)...

in tunetool, go Edit>Properties and set fueling units to EQR, exit tunetool and reopen it,

then go and fix B3618 PE table and B3647 OLFA table (at load you want to command EQR 1.165)...

remember to save file.

ok, ill check that


Also, your DAT is high... from where are you getting air into the MAF...?

stock location for a 98-02 camaro


ALSO: your MAF is failed (MAF DTC is present)... this means you cannot do Calc.VET

with MAF disabled you should be doing Calc.MAFT


see post #29 here: Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)

this is because the tune is setup SD


If you want to do Calc.VET (you should, at least initially) the enable the MAF.

So should i do Calc.MAFT or Calc.VET? Im thinking about doing away with the maf all together.

There is no calc.pe pid on my pids list

I do not have an extra bung for my Wbo2 so the pass side o2 is removed, obviously i cant do a CL datalog that way so is there any other options

[SLP IROC-Z]

I also do not have a B3647

[joecar]

I also do not have a B3647I meant B3605 and/or B3647 whichever one your file has.

[joecar]

ALSO: your MAF is failed (MAF DTC is present)... this means you cannot do Calc.VET

with MAF disabled you should be doing Calc.MAFT


see post #29 here: Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)

this is because the tune is setup SD




So should i do Calc.MAFT or Calc.VET? Im thinking about doing away with the maf all together.

There is no calc.pe pid on my pids list

I do not have an extra bung for my Wbo2 so the pass side o2 is removed, obviously i cant do a CL datalog that way so is there any other options

Calc.MAFT -> this corrects the VE table (and calculates a new MAF table from it);
Calc.VET -> this corrects the MAF table (and calculates a new VE table from it);

[ can you see the pattern of their naming...? Calc.MAFT -> calculates a new MAF table from corrected VE ]

see post #29 here: Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)


You want CALC.CL not CALC.PE... see post#1 of the Calc.VET and Calc.MAFT threads ( CALC.PE was renamed to CALC.CL );
if you have a .pdf please discard it and have a read of these threads:
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16413-Calc-MAFT-correcting-VE-and-calculating-MAF-%28in-single-log%29-gt-reverse-of-Calc-VET
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-(in-single-log)
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16280-CALC-VET-Summary-Notes
[ don't blindly follow... try to understand what is going on ]

If you can't go CL, then you have to edit calc_pids.txt to make SELBEN use WO2BEN only (you do this by setting the CLC for CALC.CL to "0")...

i.e. replace this:


*CLC-00-032
factor 0 4 .0 "{GM.EQIVRATIO}=1"


with this:


*CLC-00-032
factor 0 4 .0 "0"

that will cause SELBEN to use WO2BEN always.

[joecar]

It would be well worth your while to get the AFR/lambda from your LM-1 to your V2 in serial/digital form (rather than analog)... if you can swing it.

[SLP IROC-Z]

Ok, i understand. Thank you very much, i will start working on that and connect my wide band back up tomorrow.

[SLP IROC-Z]

so basically all i need is this http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3964616 to connect my lm1 and fs2 serial cables together?

[joecar]

so basically all i need is this http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3964616 to connect my lm1 and fs2 serial cables together?Yup...

( and there are cheaper ones than that )

LC-1 and LM-1 are similar:

serial-port-cable-that-goes-to-v2 post #3

(http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?9340-serial-port-cable-that-goes-to-v2&p=81205&viewfull=1#post81205)
(http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?9340-serial-port-cable-that-goes-to-v2)

[SLP IROC-Z]

i bought the parts from radio shack. ill have to set up the flash scan tomorrow. i was wondering if i can connect the lm1 analog wires to my factory harness so i can use the wbo2 for both.

[joecar]

i bought the parts from radio shack. ill have to set up the flash scan tomorrow. i was wondering if i can connect the lm1 analog wires to my factory harness so i can use the wbo2 for both.I connected my LC-1's narrowband analog output to my car's NBO2 socket to provide an NBO2 signal to the PCM (so it can do CL/LTFT).

[joecar]

Also check to see if your LM-1 has a SIGNAL IN serial comms input (it probably does not... I"m not familiar with the LM-1) if it does then you need some terminator here (same as LC-1)...

but I don't recall the LM-1 having a SIGNAL IN.

[SLP IROC-Z]

yes it has an aux in

[joecar]

The LM-1 user manual shows a terminator plug (on the last page or so), it looks like a 2.5mm stereo plug... it goes into the LM-1 port marked serial in.

[SLP IROC-Z]

yes i have that cable, it goes to the analog out port. it is what i used to have connected to the ad1 input on my fs2. my serial cable is connected to the "serial port" which is now connected to my fs2 via the null modem. the only open port on the lm1 now is aux in.

ill connect the analog wires to the factory harness on the car

[joecar]

Did you tell your FSV2 that:
- com port is Wideband,
- type is Innovate,
- what you want to display...?

Your V2 can display thw wideband data on the LCD in real time (connect V2 to vehicle, and go down the LCD/menu until you see a wideband display page).

[joecar]

In the LM-1 manual it shows you how to provide narrow band signal to the PCM (via the NB02 harness connector)...

when you do this, you will need to connect signal and signal ground

( I also power my LC-1 from the NBO2 harness connector )

[joecar]

See here: LC-1-widband-hook-up (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?564-LC-1-widband-hook-up&p=19121&viewfull=1#post19121) posts #50 and #66

[SLP IROC-Z]

I have connected the wo2 serial and it is accurate.
I have read those threads many times
I started from scratch and its calculating a VE table that wants to add fuel even though its already rich!

[joecar]

. . .

I started from scratch and its calculating a VE table that wants to add fuel even though its already rich!Post screenshots of your maps... and post log file.

[SLP IROC-Z]

I have time today to try this again. my LM-1 wbo2 is connected serial to the fs2 and to the car as a narrowband. i am going to try calc.vet, ill post up my results.

[SLP IROC-Z]

heres my log and files
154101541115412

[SLP IROC-Z]

screen shots

[joecar]

Screenshot of your scantool map populated with the BEN...

[SLP IROC-Z]

15415


my wo2 reading at idle moves around alot. 14.7-15.2 but the LTFT dont respond when it jumps up a little lean. not sure if thats normal

[joecar]

Map looks good... those spikes and sinkholes in you VE should not be there, flatten those out... I'll take a closer look at your log/tune files today (I'm on a MacBook at the moment)...

post your calc_pids.txt file also (it makes it easier to view your logs with your calc_pids.txt just in case it is different than mine).

[SLP IROC-Z]

yeah idk why i keep getting those huge spikes. i posted my calc_pids on page 3 with my log file and pids file

I setup two more tables of my own just for the hell of it. maf freq vs map & rpm and lamda vs map & rpm. because i feel my calculated VE table is kinda all over the place.

Im hitting 10500 Hz @ wot (gm 85mm maf) 329 g/sec, moving alot of air for a bolt on ls6?

[SLP IROC-Z]

heres a log i did after i changed the maf curve a bit

15417

previously i had to command 11.3 to get 12.5-7 afr. the wot afr i got after changing the maf table was 11.9 to 11.47

[joecar]

Are you applying the transient filter...?

[SLP IROC-Z]

yeah but it still doesnt always make sense, highs and lows.

[SLP IROC-Z]

im trying to dial in the idle but it seems no matter what i do the computer just does what it wants. i can get it to idle around 14.7 then turn the trims back on and it starts pulling out 5 percent fuel. is it normal for the LTFT to be removing fuel while the STFT are adding?

[joecar]

im trying to dial in the idle but it seems no matter what i do the computer just does what it wants. i can get it to idle around 14.7 then turn the trims back on and it starts pulling out 5 percent fuel. is it normal for the LTFT to be removing fuel while the STFT are adding?Yes, that is ok...

how it works: STFT moves up or down, if they exceed some threshold (positive or negative) then the LTFT get bumped in that direction and the STFT gets reset to zero... after STFT is zeroed it can now start moving up or down again (i.e. could be in opposite direction from LTFT bump).

[joecar]

From your log, looks like you're doing good (VET and VEN are almost the same)...

post a newer tune file and a log from it.

[SLP IROC-Z]

awesome that is great to hear! lol. i will do some more logging soon. I just realized that our gas here in the US, atleast in the northeast is E10. so i guess that means i need to change my stoich afr in the tune. 14.2?

[joecar]

Yes, set B3601 to 14.2 for E10.

[SLP IROC-Z]

ok i am having an issue with the car now. idling the afr will start to creep up to over 20:1 here and there, obviously it starts to run rough but then catches it self and goes right back to where it should be. between 1500-2000rpm tipping into the throttle slightly the afr will shoot up to over 16:1 everytime and the car goes flat then it will shoot down to like 13:1. today it started acting up even worse, i was cruising a few times and felt the car lose power looked over at the wide band and afr was over 24:1!! i pulled over and checked my tune, reprogrammed the lm1 just to make sure. problem still existed so i turned off the trims since i was far from home. it still acted up after that. i ended up unplugging the maf for the hell of it and driving it home and the problem didnt happen once. i noticed from looking at my logs the MAF reading seems eratic, it will be at 10,500 then down to under 10,000, then shoot back up and down. the air flow pid shows eratic to because of this (obviously). its just a stock 85mm maf from a truck and im running an 85mm maf curve. you mentioned before it seemed my maf was doing something wierd around 6000hz im wondering if that has anything to do with this. also my wot afr was very close to my commanded PE in SD mode where before it was alot leaner.

[joecar]

Post logs showing MAF problems...

remove the MAF inspect it, are the elements loose/unsoldered...?

[SLP IROC-Z]

this is the log where you said the maf looked screwy from 5500-6500hz
15468

i shut off the maf today and ran it speed density open loop, ran much better. i was missing alot of low end power and response. did not see it lean out and hesitate at all. and when i modify the VE table im actually seeing a response from the LTFTs that make sense.

[joecar]

this is the log where you said the maf looked screwy from 5500-6500hz
15468

i shut off the maf today and ran it speed density open loop, ran much better. i was missing alot of low end power and response. did not see it lean out and hesitate at all. and when i modify the VE table im actually seeing a response from the LTFTs that make sense.When your PE enables, your commanded fueling (pid GM.EQIVRATIO) goes lean to EQR 0.88 (this is supported by your wideband showing lean 15.3)...

you have your tunetool set to Lambda units and you are interpreting B3618 as EQR (even tho it says Lambda in the upper right)...

set your tunetool fueling units to EQR and re-do your B3618.

[joecar]

Your PE is commanding lean at any load <-- this is BAD

(looks like your tunetool has swapped Lambda/EQR units)...

in tunetool, go Edit>Properties and set fueling units to EQR, exit tunetool and reopen it,

then go and fix B3618 PE table and B3605 and/or B3647 OLFA table (at load you want to command EQR 1.165)...

remember to save file.
Please do this ^.

[SLP IROC-Z]

ive already done that, that was an old log with a tune i made just for logging, i scrapped it.

[SLP IROC-Z]

heres my most recent logs from the track with a normal tune in it.
1547115472154731547415475

[SLP IROC-Z]

15549 Can you check this log for me? Ive been logging STFT and LTFTs and im a bit confused, if i look at the min and max numbers rather than average it swings from -14% to +14% in some areas. i dont see how this is logical

[joecar]

If you look where STFT peaks and drops you will see LTFT get a small adjustment... this is how it is supposed to work


15550

[SLP IROC-Z]

thats not what i am talking about. i made maps for ltfts and stfts based on map and engine rpm. you can view cell counts, average and min/max values. checking the minimum and maximum values my trims vary from -14 to +14 in some areas in a single 20 min long. doesnt seem right for it to be adding 14% in one spot at the beginning of a long and then removing 14% 10 min later.

[joecar]

Post screenshots of your STFT and LTFT maps...

[SLP IROC-Z]

Here are min and max screen shots for all 4.
1555115552155531555415555155561555715558

[SLP IROC-Z]

i spent alot of time yesterday adjusting the VE table, i have the maf turned off, and as of last night my "average" logs were looking good, i fine tuned the VE one more time then drove it today and noticed it pulling alot of fuel in certain areas and adding alot of fuel in others. when i checked the average numbers it didnt reflect what i watched as i drove so i checked the min and max values and i was really confused. thats alot of fuel to be removing then adding all in 20 mins of driving

[joecar]

Hmmm... a large variation...

If there is that much variation in a single log (a fairly short time period) then there's something going wrong someplace (maybe physically, like airleak or rail pressure)...


Let me look thru Log_0029.efi (http://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15549&d=1374264868) in more detail.

[SLP IROC-Z]

yeah it didnt make much sense to me either. its no wonder i cant seem to make this thing happy. one thing ive noticed is my check engine light does not work sometimes after flashing my ecm, is that normal?