Getting some odd #s from my LC-1 wideband, please take a look at my log.

[n8dogg]

I just finished a cam install on an LS1 Corvette. I have replaced the factory narrowband Bank 2 Sensor 1 with my LC-1 Wideband. I have the yellow analog wire going to term A (Tan) wire in the vehicles narrow band connector. While attempting Calc.VET, the wideband seems to read accurate at first, and then starts to raise in value, at one point I think it reads 5.908 lambda! I could be missing something, please take a look at my log and let me know if I am doing something wrong.

15426

Thank you!

[joecar]

Did you connect a ground from the LC-1 to the vehicle's narrow band connector...?

[n8dogg]

Did you connect a ground from the LC-1 to the vehicle's narrow band connector...?
No I did not. IIRC my Z06 is set up similar, only difference is I use the vehicles narrowband 12v to power the LC-1, yellow to the signal wire, no ground at connection.

[n8dogg]

Joe, do you recommend keeping yellow LC-1 Analog wire to vehicles low signal, and then wiring the LC-1 White Wire (ground) to vehicles high signal? OR should that be reversed, white to low, yellow to high?

[n8dogg]

Just looked at my own car, I've got white and blue going to ground stud on the frame, yellow and red going to factory narrowband connector, black calibration wire going to battery ground. I'll have to play around with it on Friday.

I just can't remember if yellow LC-1 should go to signal high or signal low?

[Rich Z]

Related to the LC-1, how often should it be recalibrated? And can it be recalibrated while still installed in the exhaust if the car hasn't been started in several days?

[n8dogg]

Related to the LC-1, how often should it be recalibrated? And can it be recalibrated while still installed in the exhaust if the car hasn't been started in several days?

I am not 100% sure but I think you only need to perform a fresh air calibration once or twice a year for N/A cars. I did the calibration before installing into the vehicle.

Hopefully someone will chime in about the yellow analog wire connecting to either high or low signal. I found online someone who put yellow to high and white to low.

[n8dogg]

I think I might have to check the LC1 calibration of lamda, I read others seeing similar issues like -18 LTFT at idle.

[Rich Z]

I am not 100% sure but I think you only need to perform a fresh air calibration once or twice a year for N/A cars. I did the calibration before installing into the vehicle.

Hopefully someone will chime in about the yellow analog wire connecting to either high or low signal. I found online someone who put yellow to high and white to low.

Well, I've got STS rear mounted turbos on the car. And I'm pretty sure it's been around a year since I've installed the wideband sensor. I guess comparing the wideband output with what the narrow bands are reporting would be a way to compare for accuracy? Of course, the narrow bands are NEVER recalibrated so not sure how effective that would be.

Sorry, can't help you with your wiring question, as I'm using the serial interface with harness with mine and am using a separate bung so that the narrow bands don't have to be removed.

[n8dogg]

I'd like to use an additional 02 bung but the headers are ceramic coated and stainless, a bear to drill through.

[Rich Z]

I'd like to use an additional 02 bung but the headers are ceramic coated and stainless, a bear to drill through.

Yeah, I hear you. And trying to drill at the 11 or 1 o'clock positions into the headers while still mounted on the car is not an easy job neither, in most cases. At least not mine. Actually I don't think I could even do that at all.

http://www.corvetteflorida.com/pics/o2_01.jpg

BTW, note the trailer hitch wire on the right side and the radio shack wire on the left side that South Georgia Corvette spliced into my O2 sensor harnesses. Lovely, eh?

One (or both) of the shops that worked on my car got the exhaust screwed up when they put it back together by putting the cats BEHIND the X-pipe. Well, long story short, I pulled the cats out since they weren't doing much anyway that far back (and one was rattling, which made me nervous with the turbos being behind them), and the rear O2s were gone and disabled in the tune anyway. But that arrangement put those now empty rear O2 sensor bungs just a foot behind the front O2 sensor bungs. So I had two perfectly good vacant O2 bungs available. Put a plug in one, and my wideband in the other, and I was good to go.

[joecar]

Joe, do you recommend keeping yellow LC-1 Analog wire to vehicles low signal, and then wiring the LC-1 White Wire (ground) to vehicles high signal? OR should that be reversed, white to low, yellow to high?The LC-1 yellow goes to NBO2 signal, and the LC-1 white goes to NBO2 return.

[joecar]

Joe, do you recommend keeping yellow LC-1 Analog wire to vehicles low signal, and then wiring the LC-1 White Wire (ground) to vehicles high signal? OR should that be reversed, white to low, yellow to high?


Just looked at my own car, I've got white and blue going to ground stud on the frame, yellow and red going to factory narrowband connector, black calibration wire going to battery ground. I'll have to play around with it on Friday.

I just can't remember if yellow LC-1 should go to signal high or signal low?For the LC-1, those are all wrong...

should be like this:

red = power
blue = ground
brown = wideband analog signal
yellow = narrowband analog signal
white = return for brown and yellow , and cathode/negative side of LED/pushutton.
green = same as white (if you have the green wire)
black = anode/positive side of LED/pushbutton (this is not a ground)

if you can help it, avoid connecting white to vehicle ground (i.e. let it float).

Have a closer look at the LC-1 user manual, look at the function of each wire.

NBO2 connector connected to LC-1:
A = white (signal lo)
B = yellow (signal hi)

Analog wideband connection to FlashScan V1 or V2:
AD1+ = brown
AD1- = white

Serial comms wideband connection to FlashScan V2:
LC-1 SERIAL IN <-- terminator plug (blank 2.5mm stereo jack)
LC-1 SERIAL OUT --> null modem adapter --> FSV2

[joecar]

Related to the LC-1, how often should it be recalibrated? And can it be recalibrated while still installed in the exhaust if the car hasn't been started in several days?Two calibrations (see LC-1 user manual):

- sensor calibration: first time you plug a new sensor into the LC-1 controller, first power up controller without the sensor, then power off, plug in sensor, and power up, wait 30 seconds.

- fee air calibration: every few weeks/months, after engine has been off for overnite, initiate by pressing the pushbutton (connected between LC-1 black and white wires), or use V2 LCD/menu to command it (if using serial comms).

[n8dogg]

For the LC-1, those are all wrong...

should be like this:

red = power
blue = ground
brown = wideband analog signal
yellow = narrowband analog signal
white = ground/return for brown and yellow (do not connect this to vehicle ground)
green = same as white (if you have green)
black = anode/positive side of LED/switch (this is not a ground)

NBO2 connector connected to LC-1:
A = white (signal low)
B = yellow (signal high)

Yeah I am going to have to go through the wiring. I'm all sorts of confused, some how I was able to successfully wire the LC-1 into my Z06 with no problems. Now when I am on a time crunch, I get all confused. Thanks Joe.

I went to check the calibration of the LC-1 in my Z06. Of course I couldn't find the cable that connects to the PC with the two screws on the ends of the connector. But even still, my laptop doesn't have a connection for that! I tried using the serial cable I have that connects my LC-1 to my V2, but my laptop does not recognize it. Must be for dial up connection only.

I might have been tuning incorrectly all along. I've done several VE tunes using my LC-1 just how it is with factory settings, setting my stoich AFR's through EFI Live at 14.12 for E10.

If I have not changed the stoich value of the LC-1, has this messed up my VE tunes?! What if I cannot connect my LC-1 to my laptop to change this?! Ughh! I hate being so confused!!

[joecar]

Serial comms to V2:


...
Serial comms wideband connection to FlashScan V2:
LC-1 SERIAL IN <-- terminator plug (blank 2.5mm stereo jack)
LC-1 SERIAL OUT --> null modem adapter --> FSV2

you also have to go to the V2 LCD menu to configure for wideband serial comms.

[n8dogg]

Joe, I have no issues with the LC-1 communicating through the V2, that's been OK since I installed a LC-1 WB into my Z06. I have a second LC-1 which I am trying to use to tune a different car. I do need to re-wire it, I think that issue will be taken care of.

But I hope you can help me with my next issue. Do I need to change the programmed Stoich AFR/Lambda/EQR of the LC-1 if I am trying to do a Calc.VET tune at 14.12 stoich?

My laptop does not have a DB-9 port, can I connect the LC-1 to a desktop that has one, and power the LC-1 with a 12v battery? Or do I need to buy a conversion from DB-9 to USB?

[joecar]

Joe, I have no issues with the LC-1 communicating through the V2, that's been OK since I installed a LC-1 WB into my Z06. I have a second LC-1 which I am trying to use to tune a different car. I do need to re-wire it, I think that issue will be taken care of.

But I hope you can help me with my next issue. Do I need to change the programmed Stoich AFR/Lambda/EQR of the LC-1 if I am trying to do a Calc.VET tune at 14.12 stoich?

My laptop does not have a DB-9 port, can I connect the LC-1 to a desktop that has one, and power the LC-1 with a 12v battery? Or do I need to buy a conversion from DB-9 to USB?

No... use lambda.

[n8dogg]

Isn't the LC-1 reading Lambda for gasoline? If the car is running E10, it's going to read slightly lean, correct? I don't understand just "use Lambda", I am sure there is much more to it.

If the LC-1 is reading Lambda, EFI Live Scan Tool is logging data with all of the Calc.VET PIDs and VE map being computed, is my new VE table going to be accurate for E10?

[joecar]

If you have serial comms between LC-1 and V2 then use the pid EXT.WO2LAM1...

see the Calc.VET thread which contains a calc_pids.txt file for this.

Set B3601 to the stoich of E10, namely 14.2

[n8dogg]

OK, I have been using the EXT.W02LAM1 pid.

I guess I am a little confused as to how the corrected VE values are coming out accurate if the WB is reading a different stoich value.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Lambda value different for other fuel types?

[darcy]

Lambda is Lambda irrespective of fuel choice.
A WideBand is really a stoich meter, and the AFR programmed into the meter is only there so a person can read the guage in AFR that they are comfortable with.

Confusing at first, I know - getting away from AFR removes double calculating at each end.
Log in Lambda & command fuel in EQR units. Then what is programmed in to the gauge is irrelevant, but B3601 should still be set correctly for the fuel type to allow the PCM to correctly calculate fuel mass.

[n8dogg]

Thanks for the help guys. I didn't realize that lambda is a universal way to measure a fuel's burn. I found a good reference chart online that shows what the lambda value is for different AFR values which helped illustrate it for me.

Joe, after wiring the LC-1 per your recommendations, it worked fine. I was able to successfully do a VE tune on a cammed LS1 and out the door she went.

[joecar]

Lambda 1.000 is the stoich point for any/all fuels... this is why we should avoid thinking in AFR...

for example:

E00: CL lambda 1.00 = AFR 14.7; PE lambda 0.86 = AFR 12.6;
E10: CL lambda 1.00 = AFR 14.2; PE lambda 0.86 = AFR 12.2;
E85: CL lambda 1.00 = AFR 9.68; PE lambda 0.86 = AFR 8.3;

(E00 being shorthand for gasoline with no alcohol content)

in all cases the PE lambda is suitably/safely rich, yet look at how the AFR's are different...

it is far easier and less error prone to think and tune in lambda and EQR

( equivalence ratio = EQR = 1/lambda... i.e. EQR > 1 is richer than stoich )

the commanded fuel modifier tables are very easy to use when tunetool fueling units are set to EQR.

[joecar]

...
Joe, after wiring the LC-1 per your recommendations, it worked fine. I was able to successfully do a VE tune on a cammed LS1 and out the door she went.n8,

cool, I'm glad it worked... :cheers:

[ lol, one of the few things permanently burnt into my mind is the LC-1 wire colors/connections :) ]