Need blackbox 4L80E tune for my 4L80E segment swap

[Supercharged111]

Long term I think I'd prefer to run the 60E segment, but I if I can flash in a 80E segment and drive home from the shop with all 4 forward gears, that'd be sweet. I didn't see one in the repository and my searching thus far has been fruitless, I'm to the point where I'm ready to pull over suspect vehicles so I can beg to download their stock tunes. Truck in sig is in the ending stages of a 4L80E swap and I need to make it driveable so I can start making money with it.

[EagleMark]

Not sure what OS you have?

I think theSuburban 7.4L came with 4l80E and OS 09365095

There's a GMC Siera 5.7L with same OS 09365095

Both are on Tune File Depot so that should be an easy segment swap?

[Supercharged111]

That 5.7 Has an 80E tune? I'm not at home to be able to open it.

[EagleMark]

No. I beleive the 7.4L is a 4L80E so there is your segment swap to the 5.7L GMC Seira 5.7L. So both halves are available in same OS.

Problem then is EFI Live will not do a full flash of Black Box PCM. So what OS do you have? If not correct OS for 4L80E then you would need a 7.4L 4l80E PCM and segment swap the 5.7L engine in... it's a pain... and another PCM to license.

Or have someone with TunerCat full flash the PCM to start?

[Supercharged111]

Well shit, looks like my $1000 transmission swap just became an $1,125 swap. I've got a 411 in the garage, been holding off the swap due to laziness/cheapness. I already have all the tunes I need to get a 411 on the road.

[EagleMark]

Well yeah there's that option too! :anitoof:

But if you have same OS as the 4l80E file? What is your OS?

[Supercharged111]

16263425

I ctrl f'd that in the repository and found something weird. The only GMC with that OS claims to be a manual, but in the speedo sections its gear ratios are that of the 4L60E. I was using the speedo section to verify gear ratios to tell me which trans the OS had because 3 Chevies had this OS in the repository.

[Lextech]

I have a .bin for a 1998 5.7, 4L80e truck. You should be able to load this into EFILive and flash it. However this website won't let me attach a .bin. PM me your e-mail address and I will send it to you.

Jeff

[EagleMark]

I'd like a copy to please?

Now I've only tried this once, but I still believe it won't work because EFI Live will not do full flash of Vortec PCM.

[Lextech]

I'd like a copy to please?

Now I've only tried this once, but I still believe it won't work because EFI Live will not do full flash of Vortec PCM.

I opened the .bin in EFILive and saved it. Now it is .tun. So, This has been from .bin to .tun I have not tried it on anything. I did notice that there is no VIN in it. Here it is . Use at your own risk.

Jeff

[EagleMark]

Thanks Lextech!

He got lucky that as it's same OS as his so the tranny segmant swap does work. He won't need a full flash.

IIRC all Vortec .tun come up with blank VIn? Just looked at a couple I have and all VIN say N/A.

[Lextech]

Thanks Lextech!

He got lucky that as it's same OS as his so the tranny segmant swap does work. He won't need a full flash.

IIRC all Vortec .tun come up with blank VIn? Just looked at a couple I have and all VIN say N/A.

Thanks Mark.
I haven't looked at a 96-2000 GMT400 tune in so long that I didn't remember that.

Jeff

[Supercharged111]

Thanks Lextech!

He got lucky that as it's same OS as his so the tranny segmant swap does work. He won't need a full flash.

IIRC all Vortec .tun come up with blank VIn? Just looked at a couple I have and all VIN say N/A.

Go on, I thought a trans segment swap dictated a full flash. Can you give me the version for idiots? Because I test drove the truck today and 2nd and reverse work great. :)

Do I highlight the transmission tune segment, click "copy entire segment", then simply right click the transmission tune segment on my truck's tune and paste and do a normal reflash?

[EagleMark]

Open your .tun in EFI Live.

File, Load Alternate for Comparison.

Edit, Copy entire Segment, choose Transmission, Yes, OK. Save file with new name.

Flash into your truck.

[Supercharged111]

Just a normal flash? This sounds too easy, I just got hella lucky didn't I. . .

[EagleMark]

Yup, the calibration part only. Vortec won't do a full flash with OS. Can'r segment swap unless OS matches. Luck was Lextech had a 4L80E trans segment with your OS... or you would be :cussing:

[Supercharged111]

Hmm, I was under the impression that you could only segment swap if you had your desired transmission in the same OS as your original calibration and that that required a full flash to accomplish the segment swap. So you're saying that's not the case? Only a full flash is required for a segment swap if you steal your trans from a different OS? Either way, a normal flash is easily undoable. Now I wish I'd parked my truck outside the shop yesterday as it's locked inside. I got the truck all put together yesterday, unplugged the trans, and 2nd and reverse work as advertised. I'm ready for the rest of it now.

[EagleMark]

I hope I did not steer you in the wrong direction or get your hopes up?

When I found the limitations I just stopped using EFI Live for the Vortec.

Tell ya what... if I got your hopes up and does not work? Mail me the PCM and I'll full flash it for ya! :anitoof:

[Supercharged111]

Well I haven't tried it yet, so it should or shouldn't work then?

[EagleMark]

Segment swap works, I already did that. Got nothing to test the flash on? :nixweiss:

[Supercharged111]

yeah, but it's locked in a shop. there was 1 of me and 2 vehicles to get home. thought I was in it for a 411 swap, and I don't have time for that this weekend, so I put it inside.

[Supercharged111]

Well guys I finally wired up the input speed sensor, did the segment swap, and shit a chicken. It works! That was too easy, thanks again Lextech for randomly having a compatible tune and Eagle Mark for giving the Barney style walk through.

[Supercharged111]

Who do we submit Lextech's tune to to get it loaded into the repository?

[EagleMark]

Sweet! :anitoof:

Have to update your sig...


Who do we submit Lextech's tune to to get it loaded into the repository?

To submit a missing tune file please email submitfiles@tunefiledepot.com. In the email please include details such as make, model, engine size, transmission etc.

[joecar]

Good job :cheers:


A full flash is only needed if you're changing OS.

[Supercharged111]

Thanks Joe, I actually didn't have to bother you directly for this one. :D

Sig is updated and tune is submitted. Shift points are a little off which is odd, because Lextech's tune is from a 4.10 truck and mine is also a 4.10 truck. Also, do I need to change H4593? It's a 4L80E swap specific thing for the TCC. Totally digging the extra RPMs in 4th gear now. :banana:

So the speedo segment updated the trans ratios accordingly, thought maybe it was missing that. If it still ASSumes stock tire size, maybe that's why it shifts a couple hundred early at WOT? It's not shifting at its commanded 5100 WOT. The rest is so close I can't yet tell if it is off.

[joecar]

lol... EM and Lextech know more than me about the specifics :cheers:

[Lextech]

Do I need to change H4593? It's a 4L80E swap specific thing for the TCC.

As far as I can tell, the 4L60 is a Yes and the 4L80 is a No for H4593.

Jeff

[joecar]

What is the name/description of H4593 (I'm on a Mac at the moment)...?

[Lextech]

What is the name/description of H4593?

Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Enabler. Description is > > >

This should never be touched unless you change your transmission type from a 4l60e to 4l80e.
Only the following values may be entered into this table:
- No
- Yes

Jeff

[EagleMark]

So the speedo segment updated the trans ratios accordingly, thought maybe it was missing that. If it still ASSumes stock tire size, maybe that's why it shifts a couple hundred early at WOT? It's not shifting at its commanded 5100 WOT. The rest is so close I can't yet tell if it is off.

After the Tranny segmant swap you will have to calculate Speedometer, axle gear ratio and tires.

But the WOT shift adjustments are same theory. Both MPH and RPM have to be met before the shift. SO if MPH is off, then it may or may not shift at WOT RPM setting. After Speedometer settings are corrected, then a log to see where MPH is at WOT shift point, I like them a little low so MPH is met and awaiting RPM qualifier to be met.

[Supercharged111]

That's what's confusing me here. The speedometer is in its own segment, so how would it have been affected? I only copied the trans segment, but the speedo segment appears to have been adjusted accordingly. makes me wonder if the speedo is off now. When I've made speedo adjustments in the past, EFILive has been kind enough to change my shift points too.

[EagleMark]

JOE!!! :music_whistling_1:

I just did a compare of Speedometer Parameters between the 5.7L 4L60E OS 16263425 and 5.7L 4L80E OS 16263425 and there's lots of differences? Gear ratio for trans seems the most obvious. So it may need a Speedo segment swap as well to go along with the Tranny Segment swap. Then use the Speedo Calculator for overall .tun adjustments?

[joecar]

Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Enabler. Description is > > >

This should never be touched unless you change your transmission type from a 4l60e to 4l80e.
Only the following values may be entered into this table:
- No
- Yes

JeffHmmm, strange, I never saw that before.

[joecar]

JOE!!! :music_whistling_1:

I just did a compare of Speedometer Parameters between the 5.7L 4L60E OS 16263425 and 5.7L 4L80E OS 16263425 and there's lots of differences? Gear ratio for trans seems the most obvious. So it may need a Speedo segment swap as well to go along with the Tranny Segment swap. Then use the Speedo Calculator for overall .tun adjustments?Hmmm, very good and interesting point...

come to think of it, the 4L80E gets OSS/VSS from a completely different place than the 4L60E (different tooth count on reluctors)...


take a look at the diagrams in the 4L80E and 4L60E Reference Material threads.

[Supercharged111]

Well I left my damn phone at work, so I can't verify the speedo vs VSS, but it appears to be accurate based on the 150RPM increase I'd projected at 80mph. Yesterday the tach indicated a 1-2 WOT shift of less than 5000, but today the needle was right on 5000. I busted out the datalogger and saw a max RPM of 5,039, so might I be splitting hairs here? Or is there some learning for the PCM to do to determine at what RPM it must start the shift in order to complete it before the motor revs past 5,100 and that's why it seems better today? I'll tell you what, these shift and lockup tables are night and day different from the 4L60E, I've got my hands full tweaking them to make the truck drive the way I like. Hopefully someone can answer this one: can I delete the PWM and convert my TCC to a straight on/off? I did some brief googling earlier and it looks like I could use a 3-2 downshift solenoid from my 4L60E to do this?! There must be something in the tune too, is this a 411 or newer only function?

EDIT: I opened up a 411 tune and saw D2903, TCC solenoid minimum PWM. Is this the sole means of converting the TCC to on/off?

[EagleMark]

Pretty sure 4L80E is PWM TCC lock up only and does not have On/Off as well like 4l60E.

Your close and contemplating another big project. I think if you do the Speedometer segment, Speedo calculator adjustments and verify that things will fall in place. Has to have correct info in to get correct info out.

Assuming the wiring changes for the swap are already done?

[Supercharged111]

Well yeah, otherwise I'd have a CEL and no TCC lockup. It looks like the 411 has TCC duty cycle tables, and if you set them all to 100% you gain an on/off function. If my stupid phone weren't locked up at work I could have already GPS checked the speedo. Starting to think it's right though since the RPMs are higher vs speed in 4th than they used to be.

[joecar]

Well yeah, otherwise I'd have a CEL and no TCC lockup. It looks like the 411 has TCC duty cycle tables, and if you set them all to 100% you gain an on/off function.
. . .
Yes, correct.


. . .
Starting to think it's right though since the RPMs are higher vs speed in 4th than they used to be.
4L80E 4th gear ratio = 0.750 <--- so engine RPM will be higher
4L60E 4th gear ratio = 0.696

[joecar]

Regarding speedo segment:

4L80E OSS/VSS reluctor is located integrally on the output planet carrier (has alot more than 40 teeth).

4L60E OSS/VSS reluctor is located on the output shaft (has 40 teeth).

[Supercharged111]

I ASSume the segment swap covers this? Can you explain why some, but apparently not all of the speedo segment's tune was changed with the trans segment swap?

[joecar]

The trans segment swap only swaps the trans segment...

and then the tunetool does some math to obtain some of the parameters in the speedo segment (I don't undertand all the relationships);


so you should also swap the speedo segment and make sure all its parameters populate correctly

(e.g. the output reluctor will be a lot more than 40... I counted the teeth on a 4L80E output planet carrier once, but I have since forgot how many).

[Supercharged111]

Well I rescued my cell phone and used it to check my speedo which is still dead on, my output reluctor is in the transfer case which is the same one I had behind the 4L60E. From here I just make the part throttle shift speeds and TCC apply/release work to my liking. They were so bad in that stock tune that I simply copy/pasted my 4L60E's TCC apply/release tables over simply because overall they were less wrong. I'd really like to get that spreadsheet working, but it's giving me fits at home. Works like a champ at work where I don't have EFILive software. Figures.

[EagleMark]

Well I rescued my cell phone and used it to check my speedo which is still dead on, my output reluctor is in the transfer case which is the same one I had behind the 4L60E. D'oh!

What does a factory 4L80E with 4x4 transfer case do? Does it have same VSS on transfer case too?

[Supercharged111]

Yup, VSS in the t-case with a small looking reluctor on its output shaft. The 4L80E's output shaft speed sensor is just there for decoration now. My neighbor says his trans has a plug bolted in back there.

[EagleMark]

So 4L80E 2wd rear VSS in tranny and 4l80E rear VSS in transfer case?

[Supercharged111]

Yup. The real kicker is that the harness is the same for both! I could plug into the 4L80E's rear sensor if I wanted to, my harness has an extension harness that leads back to the t-case. I'm guessing 4LO is the reason for the VSS being in the t-case on 4WD trucks.

[Supercharged111]

As far as I can tell, the 4L60 is a Yes and the 4L80 is a No for H4593.

Jeff

Finally took another look at this and can see that the segment swap made the change for me. I wonder if it has to do with 4L60E having TCC on/off and PWM vs 4L80E only having PWM?

[Supercharged111]

So just a little follow-up here, I've been ignoring the truck but I'll need it this weekend to drag my car to the track so back to the laptop I go. I found that somehow EVERYTHING got put back to stock, so stock fueling, stock timing map, MIL for every little goddamned thing I ripped off the truck, wrong sized fuel tank, you name it. A word of caution to anyone doing a segment swap, CHECK EVERYTHING! No wonder the truck was so ball-less and down 14 degrees of timing on the top end.

[hog]

There are 8 segments on these PCM's did you do more than a single segment swap, like just swapping the trans calibration itself? TC2 calls these "Modules".

1) The O/S cal.
2)Engine cal.
3) HVAC cal.
4)ABS cal.
5) Speedo cal.
6) VIN cal.
7) Trans cal.

I'll have to remember that for future calibration.

peace
Hog

[Taz]

There are 8 segments on these PCM's did you do more than a single segment swap, like just swapping the trans calibration itself? TC2 calls these "Modules".

1) The O/S cal.
2)Engine cal.
3) HVAC cal.
4)ABS cal.
5) Speedo cal.
6) VIN cal.
7) Trans cal.

I'll have to remember that for future calibration.

peace
Hog

Those particular calibration segments are unique to 1996 and 1997 Black Box Vortec PCMs. The 1998 (the one in this thread) to 2000 Black Box Vortec PCMs have different calibration segments.

Just an FYI ...

[hog]

Those particular calibration segments are unique to 1996 and 1997 Black Box Vortec PCMs. The 1998 (the one in this thread) to 2000 Black Box Vortec PCMs have different calibration segments.

Just an FYI ...
yes thanks for the FYI, I was referencing a 97 calibration.

98 is
1) The O/S cal.
2)Engine cal.
3) Fuel cal.
4) System
5) Speedo cal.
6) VIN cal.
7) Trans cal.

So the common segment is still the trans segment. Just wonder why all of his emissions flags were wrong when performing a trans segment swap, unless tehre was more thn justthe Trans segment being swapped.

Hmm.

peace
Hog

[Supercharged111]

The only segment that I actively and knowingly swapped was that of the transmission per below.


Open your .tun in EFI Live.

File, Load Alternate for Comparison.

Edit, Copy entire Segment, choose Transmission, Yes, OK. Save file with new name.

Flash into your truck.