LS1 manual to auto reflash and basic tune to get me going!

[ZAPPA]

Hi there,
Great forum, lots of info and seems very helpful people. OK Im putting an LS1 into the aussie Nissan patrol gu and am going to run a 4l80e from a 6.5td suburban. The computer I have is from a manual, so couple of questions. Is it just a matter of downloading an appropriate auto tune from holdencrazy.com? Ihave the auto loom and am pretty sure I have enough info off here to get the 4l80e working. Thanks to you guys
Secondly when I got the engine(which is 2002) I didn't get any intake piping or maf. Im 700kms from a decent tuner so is there a basic mafless truck tune just to get me going till I get it tuned or should I run the maf?
Sorry for all the questions, use to carbys but think Im liking the ls engines!!
Cheers in advance:thumb_yello:
Karl

[joecar]

Hi Karl,

What donor year/model/vehicle is your PCM from...?

Yes, find a 4L80E tune file at HoldenCrazy ( now named www.tunefiledpot.com ) that matches your PCM year (as close as possible).


It should be able to run MAF-less (requires MAF DTC to trigger immediately on startup)... you might have to edit the VE table a bit.

[ZAPPA]

Hi joecar, the engine I got is a bit of a mismatch I've worked out, the motor is VU which I'm pretty sure is 2003/4 the computer has vx written on it and the label says
Serv no 12200411 DFNN , the other number is 12201281
Cheers

[gmperformancecentre]

Hi Karl just use a vx - vy auto tune and segments from a 4l80e tune

[ZAPPA]

Cheers, ill have a search for the 4l80 stuff. I don't think I'll find any on a 5.7 tune, can I use segments for the auto from a 6.0 that would have had a 4l80?

[joecar]

You get the 4L80E segment from a tune file that has the same OS id as you have or as what Steve/gmperformancecentre said

( i.e. the OS id of the segment donor file must be same as that of the file it is going into )

[ZAPPA]

Now call me a dumbass but is that the 12201281 number? Or the other?
Sorry guys REAL new to injection. can tune the solid rollered 400 chev in my ute but not by computer!!

[joecar]

No,the OS id is found by reading the tune from the PCM and looking at the opening page when the tunetool starts.

[gmperformancecentre]

The 2001 VX Auto should have OS 12202088 and the 2002 - 2004 VY Auto should have OS 12225074

[ZAPPA]

Guys having some real dramas with this box. Keeps going into limp mode.
I've tried every way without doing a segment swap as I was told this was possible. I keep getting a tcc solenoid fault and the convertor was locking in 1 and stalling the car. Adding to it, the rear seal .
I've done the repin and relay to invert the signal and also tried adding the rear sensor(splicing into the nissan one in the transfer) which didn't work. The box was from a suburban so the front speed sensor is there but the second one is blanked because the other was in the transfer. Not sure what to do
Cheers in advance

[Taz]

Couple of things ...

Please post your current tune.

The front (toward the engine) VSS type sensor on a 4L80 is the ISS (input speed sensor) - this is used for Slip diagnostics. The rear (toward the tail stock) VSS type sensor is the VSS - this provides the PCM with vehicle speed.

If the VSS sensor on your transmission is absent (sometimes will have a blank plug / cover installed) - this will cause issues - as the PCM will not be receiving a VSS input.

Options include - adding the rear VSS sensor to the transmission, or if you have an accurate cable speedometer, adding an in-line pulse generator and adjusting the tune according to show true vehicle speed.

I prefer to run an actual 4L80 segment (if available) than to run the 4L80 with a 4L60 tune (using a relay).

[ZAPPA]

15952
I appreciate any help! Ill need to find another speed sensor. will it affect the ecu if im in 4 low and the spped sensor isn't in the transfer?
Cheers in advance
Karl

[Taz]

With 512Kb PCMs the application of 4WD in OEM vehicles grounds both C2 (Red) pins 16 & 19 (one is the 4WD Low Signal, the other is the Front Axle).

This is what "tells" the PCM to use the 4WD Low portions of the calibration. The PCM then uses the Transfer Case Ratio to adjust the shift speeds, etc.

You need to wire these circuits (if you have not done so already).

Your 512Kb tune uses OS12225074 - which is very similar to the North American produced Camaro. There are a few issues though. In OS12225074 the 4WD option is disabled, and the Transfer Case Ratio is set to 0.000 (don't bother looking - these parameters are not in your version of the software). Also, there is no 4L80 segment for this OS.

Your options include:

use a Camaro OS - which allows for a 4L80 segment swap
use your current OS - which would necessitate using the relay method to operate the 4L80 (with the appropriate changes to the 4L60 calibration - gear ratios, shift speeds, etc.)

Once you decide which option you prefer, I can help further with the tune.

[joecar]

If the PCM originally drove a 4L60E, then you will have to also modify the subharness (in addition to swapping the segment and/or the OS)...


http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?4305-4L80E-Reference-Material&p=196234&viewfull=1#post196234

[ZAPPA]

I've tried that 2 different ways joe ,but without doing segment swaps which I was told would work.
There is an express van 2002 5.7 with 4l80. could I use this?
When I pull up another tune with the 4l80 it tells me that it not combatible. Do I need to re flash with a complete new os , one the same as the 4l80 and then do the segment swap

[joecar]

Without doing the segment swap (i.e. just modifying the harness, * see below) you should be able to get it to work...

but you do need a 4L60E tune file that matches your PCM (i.e. same as PCM would have had for an auto trans).



* modifying 4L60E harness to drive a 4L80E:
- remove the 3-2 control signal;
- invert the 2-3 shift solenoid signal (using a relay);
- use the TCC Enable (On/Off) signal to drive TCC PWM.

[ZAPPA]

15955
can I use this one as a reflash and turn on the 4wd side? Its the only ls1 with a 4l80 I can find
Cheers

[ZAPPA]

Ill go over that post again that you linked. it seems to lock me in second and run rough until it gets more throttle , I can hear the relay clicking when I back off.
My mate who is an auto sparky is coming down next week, all this will mean a lot more to him than me! Im just trying to get the right info so we can sort it out in the 2 days that he is here
That's exactly what I have done, although there is only 1 speed sensor in the box. it was from a suburban. only the front one is in there, the rear is plugged.

[Taz]

15955
can I use this one as a reflash and turn on the 4wd side? Its the only ls1 with a 4l80 I can find
Cheers

That is not an LS1. That is an L31 Vortec (old Gen I 5.7L with a 4x CKP) - not sure if these were ever available Down Under.

It is not compatible. If you want, start with a 2002 Camaro tune, then swap in the 4L80 segments (calibration & diagnostics) from a 2002 LQ4 6.0L truck tune.

[joecar]

Show us a diagram (that you drew) of the harness mod (show how you connected the relay).

[ZAPPA]

I'll try and post the diagrams from the changes I've made. Checked today, there is no reluctor wheel on the second trans bung. Thought this May have been the case, although I was hoping it wasn't. Don't know if I can get the ecu to read the nissan vss in the transfer, I'll see what it's sending to the ecu tom

[picnic_george]

OS 12212156
02 camaro + 02 silverado LQ4 6.0L trans segment

[joecar]

I'll try and post the diagrams from the changes I've made. Checked today, there is no reluctor wheel on the second trans bung. Thought this May have been the case, although I was hoping it wasn't. Don't know if I can get the ecu to read the nissan vss in the transfer, I'll see what it's sending to the ecu tomYou mean the VSS bung in the 4L80E case...? There should be a reluctor, it is machined into the output planetary carrier...!?

[ZAPPA]

Because this one was out of a 4x4 suburban, the vss is in the transfer and on some the ring was never fitted. This is the case with mine, checked the front one, definitely the clogged wheel, look in the back one, just straight steel, no ring.
Which after doing a bit of research I was hoping mine wasn't one of them but it is. I should have taken a picture before I put the exhaust back on. When I have it off again I'll take a shot inside the hole.
Now I need to try and work out how I'm going to get a vss to the ecu, I sure as shit aren't pulling the box! I have wired the nissan vss straight to the harness vss connector, today I'll chuck the comp in and see if it's getting a signal( if it will read something) from the nissan sender and try and alter the speedo calibration to suit in my tune.

[ZAPPA]

are the reluctor wheels the same front and back joe? had another look and there is a sort of tooth gear but it doesn't feel anything like the front and is not directly inline with the sensor? I moved the sensor from front to back and now im not getting any info on the scan too for input/output or vehicle speed?

[ZAPPA]

There is no reluctor wheel! It's the park detention we were looking at. There is a adaptor that goes from the 4l80 to the patrol transfer that I will get 40 grooves machined into. The adaptor housing has a machined section for a speed sensor. Wish marks adaptor had told me about it earlier. I had a 4l60e that I pulled the tail off and they have a 40 tooth reluctor as well. Is there any guidelines for how deep the grooves need to be? If I do them the same size as the 4l60 ones should be alright? The shaft is around 52mm .
Does anyone see any dramas with this?

[Taz]

Did some checking ... the rear VSS reluctor ring is a pressed on item ... and as you have discovered is often missing from 4L80 transmissions originally installed in 4x4 applications.

Doesn't look like GM offers this piece individually.

If you try an internet search use part number 34477A (sometimes W34477A). Found these on eBay ... $20 to $30.

[ZAPPA]

Ok so I had the adaptor shaft machined with 10 grooves( very hard to do more) and the ecu will pick up on the pulses. We had to make some changes to diff and tyre size, but ultimately the ecu is seeing real vehicle speed. the tranny seems to shift ok but something is up with the setup. it seems to be reliant on tps. you can feather the throttle and the revs will clean up. but if you don't it almost feels like its missing real bad? Hard to explain. Worse in higher gears. I think its something to do with the convertor.
I have wired it like this
Relay, pin 85 pcm side of c2-47
pin 87a tranny side of c2-47
pin 86 12v+
pin 30 good ground.
I also moved pin c2-2 to c2-42.
I didn't swap the pins, ive just bleft the other out. Is that right or should 42 go back into 2?
This arvo I will check the tranny plug. Between me and my friend, cant remember if we did anything with the wiring down there, I don't think we did but ill check.
Does the wiring(apart from me checking the plug sound right)
The relay does a fair bit of clicking, not sure when it should be.
Cheers, Im so close but no cigar just yet!!

[joecar]

The relay that inverts the 2-3 shift solenoid signal should only click when the following happen:
- PCM commands shift 2->3,
- PCM commands shift 3->2;

it should not click otherwise.

Sounds right... can you draw a labelled pic of your wiring (and scan it and post it)...?

What signal are you using to drive 4L80E TCC PWM (you cannot use 4L60E TCC PWM)...?

[ZAPPA]

I dont know which one im using, Just doing it as was shown. What should i use to drive the 4l80 tcc pwm?
Sorry mate, im a plumber and not bad with electrics but this has been a crash course to say the least!! But im learning!!
As far as the wiring goes, all ive done is left the 4l60 trans plug alone, and did the relay and moved the pins. Is there something else I should do.
Thanks for your assistance, i appreciate it mate

[joecar]

Use either one of these to drive the 4L80E TCC PWM signal:
- use 4L60E TCC ON/OFF signal directly,
- use 4L60E TCC ON/OFF signal to gate a relay which passes the 4L60E TCC PWM signal to the 4L80E TCC PWM solenoid;

the first one is simpler and give a quick TCC lockup that you can feel.


see posts #12 and #16 here: 4L80E-Reference-Material (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?4305-4L80E-Reference-Material)

[ZAPPA]

Joe,
Isn't that what I achieved by doing the wire swap from c2 to c42?
If I go back to the start and do it the way you describe, do I need to still swap the wires at the trans conn? I have 3 ways printed out to do this, all a lil bit different and a lil vague for beginners.
Cheers
Karl

[ZAPPA]

1599215992Righto, update. The tranny is doing everything it need to. All the diagrams I had didn't have the brake circuit on them!lol
Cheers joecar for your patience. Im sure you must get the shits with noobs like me, but im learning! Ill have to do some tuning on the shoft points they are soft and am actually too scared to let it do a wide open shift as it takes a while.
I still have a intermittent fault which causes the car to run rough, more throttle and it cleans up but its weird, you can leave the throttle alone at a steady 80k and all of a sudden it cleans up and it runs almost normal. I haven't got the purge setup yet, but its still throwing the o2 codes. Both high and low voltage. Maybe one of my brand new bosch sensors have failed? The fuel trims are showing a - on that bank that plays up and around 23 on the other. I data logged a bit of the run , ill see if I can post it

[joecar]

Joe,
Isn't that what I achieved by doing the wire swap from c2 to c42?
If I go back to the start and do it the way you describe, do I need to still swap the wires at the trans conn? I have 3 ways printed out to do this, all a lil bit different and a lil vague for beginners.
Cheers
KarlHi Karl,

I had to find and look at a wiring diagram:
PCM pin C2:2 drives TCC PWM
PCM pin C2:42 drives TCC ON/OFF

so yes, correct, you would move the wire/terminal at C2:2 to C2:42 in the PCM connector as you have done

( typically the wire swap is done at the trans connector... but doing it at the PCM connector is fine )


You would swap the wires at one connector only not both.



16005

[joecar]

1599215992Righto, update. The tranny is doing everything it need to. All the diagrams I had didn't have the brake circuit on them!lol
Cheers joecar for your patience. Im sure you must get the shits with noobs like me, but im learning! Ill have to do some tuning on the shoft points they are soft and am actually too scared to let it do a wide open shift as it takes a while.
I still have a intermittent fault which causes the car to run rough, more throttle and it cleans up but its weird, you can leave the throttle alone at a steady 80k and all of a sudden it cleans up and it runs almost normal. I haven't got the purge setup yet, but its still throwing the o2 codes. Both high and low voltage. Maybe one of my brand new bosch sensors have failed? The fuel trims are showing a - on that bank that plays up and around 23 on the other. I data logged a bit of the run , ill see if I can post itI'll look at your log later today...

hmmm, sounds like a wiring problem.

[ZAPPA]

When it does clean up. it will run normally until the car is shutoff. When it does the stft read the same for both banks as does the injector pulses, I think it going into closed loop? or open? as a failsafe, the car will run fine but ping a lil under load. Ill take it for a run this arvo as im trying to firm up the shifts and take another log when it runs well(sortof)
Just watched the whole log, at 98 frames the stft stop doing anything, is this running in another mode then?
Cheers
Karl