05 LLY starting and surging issues

[Sleepertrk]

Hi guys, i have a 05 lly that im trying to diagnose and fix. It ran great up until about a 2 months ago.

It cranks over for about 6-8 seconds before it will fire even if i prime the fuel filter before hand. I replaced the whole unit with a brand new one, that shortened the crank time down from about 10 seconds plus.

Now when i drive the truck if i really baby it it will run smooth through all the gears, if i WOT or try to accelerate (say to pass a car) i get black smoke, no power and surging. Under heavy throttle i have to let off the accelerator to get the truck to shift.

I have not done a return rate bottle test yet but im sure i know the results, i will get that set up now and test it. I have run a few logs if anyone wants to see them.

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated. The truck is totally stock w/ 200k miles


Thanks guys

[Sleepertrk]

whoops, ill try this one might be better help

[killerbee]

If this has stock tuning, then you may have some kind of fuel restriction. From the fuel pressure readings, it appears that your CP3 is cavitating. The logs have limited use because you haven't logged most of the necessary PID's.

[Sleepertrk]

What PIDS would be more helpful? I dont log things very often.

Think there might be a blockage in the fuel lines or a bad relief valve? The fuel filter and filter housing have hardly any use. Im starting to think i should put a lift pump on to send pressure to the CP3 but if its a different issue i like to solve it first.

Thanks killerbee

[killerbee]

Fuel pulse width and throttle position. Your pressure curves don't appear to indicate FPRV opening, that usually looks more like a notch. But I may be wrong.

If you are having starting issues, then maybe air is getting pulled in. That will kill the fuel pressure.

[Sleepertrk]

Here are the logs killerbee
The first one is just start up, second log has a few wfo runs and a few normal runs. I did not get any surging this time.

thanks again for your time!

[killerbee]

MAINBPW is what you need to log for pulse width.

[Sleepertrk]

Killerbee, ok i think i got it this time sorry for the inconvenience. This test run i got the loss of power but no surging and a rough idle when i went to park it. This has start up and a few runs together.

[killerbee]

Dude, I don't have a clue what you have there. This log shows a whole different tune. Your commanded fuel pressure is not even stock. I wonder now if you have some kind of corruption electronically. Codes?

Being very honest with you, you are going to need to learn how to log what you need. You have nothing useful here.

[killerbee]

What I do see here (idle roughness) suggests that you are using a very incompetent tune, with a pulse table that was adjusted with a crayon. I would suggest flashing in a stock tune.

[Sleepertrk]

i appreciate the honesty, i don't know logging this is all new to me. I assure you this is a 100% stock vehicle this happens key cycle to key cycle. The last logs i gave you had no surging issues the logs prior to that had surging. i bet if i went out and logged again there wouldn't be surging. The blimps in the throttle position are where i had to let off the throttle in order for the transmission to shift up a gear.

My only codes are for a bad #8 glow plug and front right and left wheel sensors that is all. Im sorry about my logging once again im new to this side of it, ill get some more reading done and post something use full. I do not have a vin license yet for this truck do you think flashing in a stock or performance tune might clear this up?

I do appreciate your help tho! Thanks

[Sleepertrk]

ill go pull the stock tune out of it now and we can see if its something there, i cant flash anything back in tho.

Edit:(to save some page space) here is the tune i just pulled out, like i said im very certain this truck is stock. the place i work updated their fleet and this was my work truck. I bought it off them, it only had two drive me and one other. Ofcourse there is a chance the guy before me tried to put a programmer in it but i highly doubt it. It ran fine up until a few months ago then this started. Ive been driving it for atleast 8 months and ive been the only driver.

[killerbee]

That is stock. But your log is not reflecting stock behavior, at least with respect to fueling. You must have some kind of electrical issue. You may also have a bad ECM.

[Sleepertrk]

Ok, Ive got a lot of questions now i guess. Thanks

[bmc1025]

Log the MAF and the coolant temp voltage, see if they drop to 0v when the truck is acting up. If so check the ecmB fuse contacts and associated wiring. Also remove and clean all engine grounds and front chassis grounds.

[Sleepertrk]

Ok BMC1025 i will check those out and see what i find. Thanks for your info. Are ECM failures common on these trucks? I did log cam and crank pulses last night and the crank shaft sensor was all zeros but the cam did miss once. Is that normal or could i have a bad cam sensor?

[Sleepertrk]

Ok killerbee, will you please take a look at this log and see if I got it right this time. I also got a P1094 code while I was testing. Thanks

[cumminsDK]

Ok killerbee, will you please take a look at this log and see if I got it right this time. I also got a P1094 code while I was testing. Thanks

With the scan tool connect to your truck and select the PID's for desired Fuel rail pressure and actual fuel rail pressure along with a few others that may be pertinent and then select the yellow button to display data then select the DVT tab above hit the button for activate then select the control tab below and check the box next to fuel rail pressure control and drag the square all the way to the right to increase pressure to 160 MPA then go back to your Data tab and see if actual fuel rail pressure went up to about 19 or 20,000 PSI and then dropped back down to 9000-10,000 PSI while desired rai pressure is still up at 23,000 if so replace the fuel pressure relief valve

[bmc1025]

OK looked at your log it doesn't appear to be the grounding or fuse problem. Your timing looks to be relatively low across the board. Log the desired and actual rail pressure P1094 can set with a bad FPR, FPRV, and possibly a bad injector. I would start by logging the difference between actual and desired and see where at in the rpm range the differences occur, by the deffinition of that code it should be at idle. Check to see if fuel is leaking out of the FPRV at idle.

[killerbee]

This log is better, but add FRPDES to your list.

Everything continue to point to fuel pressure problems. You are never getting the fuel pressure you need. I am curious where you are because MAF and baro suggest you are in the mountains. I wonder if your symptoms disappear when you are lower (or higher).

Fuel pump (CP3) cavitation becomes worse, the higher you go. Increasing the inlet pressure (lift pump) to the CP3 is always the answer to cavitation, and usually cheaper than a new CP3. FYI, cavitation shows up as lowered actual FRP, compared to FRPDES.

[killerbee]

Can you come up with a log of one of these 6 second starts, with these pids?

[Sleepertrk]

Ok Ill add those PIDS guys and post it up tomorrow. I live at 4500' but frequent 8500' in elevation for work. I did the bottle test today and after 3 hard wide open runs I only ended up with 4 ml of fuel in my bottle. Nothing added to the bottle at idle or after I shut the truck off and let it sit. I am going to shim it anyway but wow is that bolt tight! ill get it tomorrow.

Sorry it took so long to write normally if you guys post it sends me an email. Thanks for all your help.

[Sleepertrk]

K here it is with a log of start up. I tried to up the desired rail pressure it shows in the data that im asking for more but the DVT control says try again not connecting. Also if I activate any one of the rail pressure control valve options it kills the truck immediately. And doesnt re start very easily.

[killerbee]

I am going to make an educated guess that your FPR or CP3 is done. I can't tell which one. You are not generating even modest startup pressure. That would explain the hard starts.

[Sleepertrk]

K do you think adding a lift pump will pickup the slack or should I put that $500 towards a CP3? And either way I want a LBZ CP3 or just a LBZ FPR?

[killerbee]

I would spend a few bucks on a dealer diagnosis before anything else. I am not a competent mechanic, just a guy who can "interpret" a log.

[Sleepertrk]

Fair enough, Well I do appreciate the patients and help. Ill be sure to post the fix to this problem.

[Sleepertrk]

Update: work finally slowed down. I bought and installed a Fass lift pump with no positive results. So I ordered a new CP3 today and should have it Tuesday.

[Sleepertrk]

replaced 3 injectors off of return rate not balance rate and it runs great now. Balance rates are all low now also.