Bad Flash (possible bricked ecu)

[FreshDA9]

I went to full flash my ecu as i was going to change my operating system. Apparently a past issue came back to haunt me and during the flash it just stopped. I had updated to the new version with the fixed issues and the handheld and software are working fine. I try to cal flash and full flash my original file back in my truck and it cannot connect with the truck and will not start.

I do have access to GM tech 2 and bench flasher so i could pull my ecu and reflash it (Do you guys think this will fix it, Or do you think the ecu is dead?)

I did notice my 3rd tick on the handheld settings with the truck was never lit up in green. Wasn't there a way to get it to connect again I thought? I have 2 green X's out of the 3. If so i hope i could just flash my cal again and get it running.

Thanks Guys

[Taz]

What controller are you working with ?

Post the tune you tried to flash (when the issue occurred).

[FreshDA9]

Its a LS1B from my 2001 truck. I was upgrading to a Camaro file so I can flash in COS5. I was flashing with V8 and it failed. I then noticed i was having the issue with v7 and having my handheld plugged in where it would freeze (had this problem before), Found there was an update here on the forum to fix the problem (when ever i tried to update through the software it never found this update fix). SO i fixed the handheld and software with the update and firmware etc. I went to flash in my file i used previously on my truck and nothing it wont communicate with the truck.

I did notice I had 2 green X's out of the 3.

I am at work or else i would post the files.

[Chevy366]

When you full flash the most critical part is the first few seconds (erasing memory), after that the PCM is recoverable.
Try taking the negative battery cable off for a few minutes, then put it back on and try again.

[EagleMark]

I think the most critical part of a full flash is always do it on bench! Not in vehicle.

When I brought up the topic of Bricked PCMs there was no absolute positive list of what PCM or YMM could or could not be full flash. The issue was other modules on data line loosing contact with mothership causing the flash failure and Bricked door stop PCM.

Since using this advice I have never bricked a PCM...

[FreshDA9]

I will full flash for now on on the bench. I will try disconnecting the battery and re flashing it again to see if i can get it to start. If not im pulling the ecm and bench flashing it with the tech 2.

I attached my map that i have ran in my truck for almost a year now. I also attached the file i was converting and flashing in.

Here is what im talking about with the handheld. It wont communicate with the ecu (hoping its not dead) im going to try a few more things also before pulling the ecu out to bench flash.
15695

[Blacky]

If the PCM is recoverable, then when you connect FlashScan to the vehicle one of the orange LEDs on FlashScan's keypad will flash 4 times per second. That is the PCM polling with an "is anyone out there" message. Its what we call dead-poll, the PCM is "brain dead" but it is looking for (i.e polling for) a scan tool that can reprogram it.

If you don't see that LED flashing 4 times per second (i.e. it only flashes sporadically, or not at all) then either the PCM is OK or it is 100% dead and unrecoverable. Given that you don't get the third green tick, chances are that it is really a door stop now.

As Chevy366 said the first few seconds are the most critical. If the full flash fails after the PCM is erased but before the communications firmware is reprogrammed then the PCM will not be able to communicate with the scan tool to facilitate any sort of recovery. If the comms firmware made it back in before it failed then it should be recoverable. It is that comms firmware that does the polling which causes the orange LED to flash 4 times per second.

If it really is now a door stop, here are some things to keep in mind:

You can send it away to be repaired. That involves removing the flash chip from the main circuit board, programming it in a chip programmer and re-soldering the chip to the board.
If you choose to replace the PCM with another make sure you get a receipt, then send the receipt to EFILive, we'll replace your VIN license free of charge.


Regards
Paul

[FreshDA9]

If the PCM is recoverable, then when you connect FlashScan to the vehicle one of the orange LEDs on FlashScan's keypad will flash 4 times per second. That is the PCM polling with an "is anyone out there" message. Its what we call dead-poll, the PCM is "brain dead" but it is looking for (i.e polling for) a scan tool that can reprogram it.

If you don't see that LED flashing 4 times per second (i.e. it only flashes sporadically, or not at all) then either the PCM is OK or it is 100% dead and unrecoverable. Given that you don't get the third green tick, chances are that it is really a door stop now.

As Chevy366 said the first few seconds are the most critical. If the full flash fails after the PCM is erased but before the communications firmware is reprogrammed then the PCM will not be able to communicate with the scan tool to facilitate any sort of recovery. If the comms firmware made it back in before it failed then it should be recoverable. It is that comms firmware that does the polling which causes the orange LED to flash 4 times per second.

If it really is now a door stop, here are some things to keep in mind:

You can send it away to be repaired. That involves removing the flash chip from the main circuit board, programming it in a chip programmer and re-soldering the chip to the board.
If you choose to replace the PCM with another make sure you get a receipt, then send the receipt to EFILive, we'll replace your VIN license free of charge.


Regards
Paul

I just went out to check. I plugged in the V2. all lights flash as its powering up. then there is 1 flash on the right orange led. when turning the key on it flashs really fast, then when turning the key off it flashes 7 times at a nice even pace then stops. So are you saying its a 50/50 chance its dead.

I can de solder and resolder a chip no problem in the pcm but I am unsure of the chip if i have any way to burn it with my burners and also wouldnt i need software to transfer to a new chip.

Im going to see if i can bench flash it tomorrow back to stock and if not guess i will have to buy a new pcm and flash it on the bench.

[Blacky]

I just went out to check. I plugged in the V2. all lights flash as its powering up. then there is 1 flash on the right orange led. when turning the key on it flashs really fast, then when turning the key off it flashes 7 times at a nice even pace then stops. So are you saying its a 50/50 chance its dead.

I can de solder and resolder a chip no problem in the pcm but I am unsure of the chip if i have any way to burn it with my burners and also wouldnt i need software to transfer to a new chip.

Im going to see if i can bench flash it tomorrow back to stock and if not guess i will have to buy a new pcm and flash it on the bench.

The initial flash is FlashScan looking for what modules are on the bus.
The really fast flashing at ignition on is caused by each module on the bus attempting to communicate with the ECM (and/or with each other) to try and establish which modules are operational and available.
The final few flashes are most likely the modules that did "discover" each other sending each other messages.

If the flashing stops completely, then the PCM is not sending out its polling message, which indicates that wither its 100% dead or it is operating normally and doesn't need to send out the poll messages. But given the vehicle won't start and you don't get the third green tick the most likely explanation is that its not operating normally and is actually 100% dead.

If you want to try and reprogram the chip yourself, I can supply you a binary image for the chip from the file that you posted. Send me an email at paul@efilive.com and I'll email it back to you.

Regards
Paul

[FreshDA9]

Ill pray that it goes well on the bench tomorrow. if not then I will probably order one and flash it to get my truck running again. Then i will take this one apart and reset the chip.

[FreshDA9]

Yea shes toast. im going to see if i can grab a couple at the local junkyard. Paul when i find one ill email you the receipt. The chip we talked about earlier would it be the same chip you remove for the Road Runner? if so i might just remove it and buy a RR from moates and put in this dead one.

[Blacky]

Yea shes toast. im going to see if i can grab a couple at the local junkyard. Paul when i find one ill email you the receipt. The chip we talked about earlier would it be the same chip you remove for the Road Runner? if so i might just remove it and buy a RR from moates and put in this dead one.

Yes it will be the same chip.
Regards
Paul

[GMPX]

Also, make sure you don't have after market modules connected to the VPW bus. Many of these will guarantee a flash failure if not disconnected, essentially what happens is they just continue to transmit messages on the data bus (usually in low speed mode) and throwing everything out of whack. There's a reason GM moved to CAN in 2006.

[FreshDA9]

Ok I got 2 ecus at the local yard today pulled out the bench flasher then did a full flash of my original tune and had no problems. It started my truck and im mobile again. 2 things though.

1. I did a crank learn as instructed but when i activated and clicked learn all it said was ok. Is there more im supposed to do? It started and was fine just didnt do much just said OK.

2. Im getting this when i check my codes.
15708

Paul I did use another license i will scan my receipt and email you my information. thanks again.

[Blacky]

Ok I got 2 ecus at the local yard today pulled out the bench flasher then did a full flash of my original tune and had no problems. It started my truck and im mobile again. 2 things though.

1. I did a crank learn as instructed but when i activated and clicked learn all it said was ok. Is there more im supposed to do? It started and was fine just didnt do much just said OK.

2. Im getting this when i check my codes.
15708

Paul I did use another license i will scan my receipt and email you my information. thanks again.

The known issues for the Aug 06 release include V7 not displaying DTCs. You can use FlashScan in standalone mode to view the DTCs until the next update (which should be this week).

On the crank relearn after it says ok, you have to use the throttle to raise the rpm to around 4000-4500, the PCM will then cut the injectors for about 1/10 of a second, once you feel the injector cut out (it will feel like a engine stumble/misfire) release the throttle and allow it to return to idle, then switch off the ignition for about 20 seconds to allow the CASE data to be saved to flash memory in the PCM.

Note: Only one CASE relearn can be performed per ignition cycle. So if you're not sure it worked and want to try it again, then you'll need to cycle the ignition.

Regards
Paul

[joecar]

More info see post#2: crank-relearn (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?10764-crank-relearn&p=94159#post94159)

[Trippin]

Send me the dead ECM, I can fix it.

[FreshDA9]

Thanks Paul & Joe.

Trippin i already have it apart. Looks like a simple surface mount chip I'm going to remove and install a road runner in it for the shop as i would love to do customer cars in realtime.

[EagleMark]

Also, make sure you don't have after market modules connected to the VPW bus. Many of these will guarantee a flash failure if not disconnected, essentially what happens is they just continue to transmit messages on the data bus (usually in low speed mode) and throwing everything out of whack. There's a reason GM moved to CAN in 2006.Can you give examples of aftermarket modules that may be tied into the bus?

[ScarabEpic22]

Can you give examples of aftermarket modules that may be tied into the bus?

Anything that is on the VPW bus: bypass modules for aftermarket alarms, iPod/aux adapters, aftermarket stereo chime/Onstar adapters, etc.

[EagleMark]

:thumb_yello:

If finding any of these should one do a bench flash even for calibration only?

[Chevy366]

:thumb_yello:

If finding any of these should one do a bench flash even for calibration only?
Or just pull the fuse to the device, no power on communication.
Have aftermarket radio, pull the fuse to flash, have flashed full flashes and calibration only without removing PCM/ECU several times, works every time.

[EagleMark]

Thanks!

Others seem to disagree with full flash? I have no opinion because I never full flash in vehicle... unless it is a engine transplant and no other factory modules present. In these cases I've never has an issue. This aftermarket module presence just further complicates it.