Running Discrete Fan with Vette Tune

[SkinnyPedal]

I recently acquired a customer that swapped a 2008 LS3 from a vette and a t56 from a GTO in to a 69 Chevelle. He had all kinds of problems from the previous Professional :music_whistling_1: helping him, as in after 2 months the car would not start, had a 5.3 auto pickup OS, starter relay bypass not enabled, brand new harness not making connection with the E38 on some pins, and much more...... Somehow he got my contact info and a few hours after I got my hands on it the car was running great.

I just for the life of me can't get the fan to work when set to discrete. I have done the fan patch to bring things on at lower temps. When set to discrete the fan is always on when the ignition is on. I do have it wired correctly and I can turn it off with DVT. PID shows it correctly. If I set to pulse width mod and use 0 and 100% it works but will click the relay as it approaches temp. I would like to run discrete if possible. The tune is attached. I am running a Vet OS. I have not had this issue with an E38 before. I know what percentages it takes for discrete fan control. Am I missing something in this one? A DTC not set right? There are no DTCs when the car is running.

15730

And to share, here is the rig....

15731

[swingtan]

The E38 has the ability to control a 2 stage fan setup. Normally, one fan kicks in and the second comes in if the temps rise further.

The way you have the tune, it should only be turning on the 1st fan ( in the original vehicle ). However, in a custom setup, it's going to depend on the wiring of the fan relays. It's possible that the wiring is incorrect and resulting in the fan staying on. When using the DVT's, did you try alternating between activating each fan? Try swapping between the following...


No fans active
Only fan #1 active
Only fan #2 active
Both fans active


See if there is any difference.

Simon.

[Taz]

Try the attached tune ... Corvettes were configured to use a Fan Control Module, while Trucks used relays - to operate the fans.

You will need to adjust G0901 and G0902 to suit your needs - these were changed when I reset the fans.

The fan PWM% transition points in this particular tune are:

40.0% (Fan 1 OFF)
44.0% (Fan 1 ON)
85.0% (Fan 2 OFF)
90.0% (Fan 2 ON)


Cheers,
Taz

[SkinnyPedal]

Thanks guys. Its a single fan, so one relay. Wired for fan one control. I'll give 'er a shot and let you know.

[SkinnyPedal]

Taz I just looked at the tune. Anytime its set to discrete the fan kicks on. I even tried setting all the transition points to total off, tried 0 and 25. Either should never turn the fan on but if its set to discrete the fan kicks on with ignition.

[Taz]

You won't be able to see all of the changes I made ... give the tune I posted a try - only adjusting the G0901 and G0902 values to suit your needs.

[SkinnyPedal]

I'll give it a shot and let you know. So what all did you do?

[Taz]

Changed the Corvette "only works with a Fan Control Module" parameters to Truck style "works with relays" parameters.

[SkinnyPedal]

Pardon my ignorance, I'm still learning the ins and outs of E38s. Where did you do that? You can respond with a PM if you like.

[Taz]

One of the most user friendly components of the EFILive software - which often sets it apart from other softwares - allowing the end user to define necessary parameters (via *.cax file) that were not previously available.

[Taz]

I take it from the absence of subsequent posts, you were successful in getting the E-Fan to function appropriately ?

[SkinnyPedal]

Have not had a chance to get my hands back on the car. Will let you know as soon as it do.

[Taz]

Roger that ... the tune I posted is set up for 2 Fan outputs to relays (Low & High). It should work OK with a single Fan wired to the Low output ... as long as the PWM% used does not exceed 84% (i.e. does not encroach on Fan 2 territory).

You may get a DTC related to the missing / not wired Fan (High).

If you have any issues, please post up ... can reset the tune for a single fan if problems arise.

[Hocky]

I have a Corvette 2008 tune that I want the fan to be in Discrete mode and I also get the always on when ignition is on.
Read 100s of post about this but nothing works...

No AC attached so it should not be that?

I can switch the fan on/off in DVT so the wireing is correct.

In this post Taz is writing that I can not do this by myself in the software? Is this still the case?
Very confusing if I can not use the software to change this as it clearly makes you think that...

Taz or someone else, how can I do the magic?
Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks!

[Hocky]

I did buy one licens for changing the fan settings (and for future use) so I hope I can do this?
Else I should have bought a Corvette PWM fan relay instead :(

Any ideas?

[ScarabEpic22]

You cannot do it with the available parameters in EFILive. You need to have your file patched by a different software or create a .cax file with the necessary parameters mapped out.

[Hocky]

Thanks for your input ScarabEpic22!
That was not what I wanted to hear but probably already found out :(

Maybe the worst thing is that you think that you can do it in the software when you cant.
Alot of hours spent on this...and its not just me that spend alot of time on something that you can not do.
Maybe there is some faq or help text somewhere but I have not seen it.

I have investigated some in the .cax files but for a non professional tuner it seems to be a to steep learning curve to get into :(

Any helpful soul out there that could help me patch my tune?

[ScarabEpic22]

I have only stuck my toe in the .cax world, it takes lots of time and effort (plus some money) to become proficient with developing the parameters.

I would send Taz a PM and see if he would be willing to patch your file for a small fee. It can also by done with a competitors product for about $100. To whomever you use, I would supply them with a bone stock tune from your vehicle to patch. Then you have 2 "stock" tunes, 1 factory-fresh GM stock and 1 with the efans patched. You can easily script all your changes over into the new base file to use. I say this because, then you have the changes in a stock file and not in your tuned file. Makes it easier to build a new tune from scratch if you ever have to.

[koryenger]

I have only stuck my toe in the .cax world, it takes lots of time and effort (plus some money) to become proficient with developing the parameters.

I would send Taz a PM and see if he would be willing to patch your file for a small fee. It can also by done with a competitors product for about $100. To whomever you use, I would supply them with a bone stock tune from your vehicle to patch. Then you have 2 "stock" tunes, 1 factory-fresh GM stock and 1 with the efans patched. You can easily script all your changes over into the new base file to use. I say this because, then you have the changes in a stock file and not in your tuned file. Makes it easier to build a new tune from scratch if you ever have to.

Hi Taz...any way you can help me out as well? Would be much appreciated!!21302

[ScarabEpic22]

Hi Taz...any way you can help me out as well? Would be much appreciated!!21302

I'm not Taz :). You'll need to send Taz a PM, although he hasn't posted on the forum in about a year now.

[Hocky]

Im trying to get some help from the support with this but I dont know if I will get any.
The most annoying is that the option can be changed in the software but does not work when downloaded to the ECU :(

[nmarkiw]

Changed the Corvette "only works with a Fan Control Module" parameters to Truck style "works with relays" parameters.

How do I make this change? I have two Corvette OS's with the same problem.

[joecar]

Post your tune file.

[nmarkiw]

Attached

[joecar]

I can't open it, it says it is tagged private.

[nmarkiw]

I can't open it, it says it is tagged private.

Sorry, forgot to remove the security.

[LastCall]

EfiLive does not have the proper tables to do this. Options are a CAX file or having someone make the edits in binary. I

[joecar]

+1 needs external intervention for E38 fan control.

[LS-SWAPPER]

Can anybody perform this fan magic for me please? I'm a little desperate right now. TIA

22096

[LS-SWAPPER]

Anyone? Is this possible to do?

[LastCall]

Anyone? Is this possible to do?

You'll need to have some with HPT flash in the discrete fan settings or find someone who can create a CAX for you.

[LS-SWAPPER]

That's disappointing, but thanks.

[LS-SWAPPER]

I'd like to discuss this further. I have no less than 3 e38 ecms on my plate right now that are having fan issues. They come from a variety of vehicles. All of them seem to have the same issue, the fans won't come on based off ect (except for the vette file I posted earlier, it won't turn off). I can turn them on/off in the scanner software just fine but they won't come on due to temperature. They are all set to discrete and they are all in a swap vehicle. They set up to ground the fan relay trigger. I feel like there's more that can be done here. I know some e38s don't have problems, is there a way to see which are which? I'm assuming its based off OS. I looked into cax files some and I'm trying to learn, but I don't think I'm to the point where I'm comfortable getting that deep on my own.

[LastCall]

I'd like to discuss this further. I have no less than 3 e38 ecms on my plate right now that are having fan issues. They come from a variety of vehicles. All of them seem to have the same issue, the fans won't come on based off ect (except for the vette file I posted earlier, it won't turn off). I can turn them on/off in the scanner software just fine but they won't come on due to temperature. They are all set to discrete and they are all in a swap vehicle. They set up to ground the fan relay trigger. I feel like there's more that can be done here. I know some e38s don't have problems, is there a way to see which are which? I'm assuming its based off OS. I looked into cax files some and I'm trying to learn, but I don't think I'm to the point where I'm comfortable getting that deep on my own.

It would be easiest to run a 2010 and up E38. But then there May be TCM compatibility issues if it

[LS-SWAPPER]

What's easiest about the 2010 and up? Of the 4 I'm trying to straighten out 3 of them are 2010 or newer. The Vette setup that won't turn off is an 08.

[LastCall]

The 2010 and up have the logic built into the calibration for discrete efans. I have an 08 Vette cal that has discrete set up. Send me your email and I

[LS-SWAPPER]

So you're saying that even though "discrete" is an option in a 2008 or 2009 e38 tune it won't work regardless???

If so, why is it even an option?

[LastCall]

So you're saying that even though "discrete" is an option in a 2008 or 2009 e38 tune it won't work regardless???

If so, why is it even an option?

Yes thats what I’m saying and I’m not sure why EfiLive didn’t define all of the required Efan parameters to run discrete fans.

[Hocky]

Yes thats what I’m saying and I’m not sure why EfiLive didn’t define all of the required Efan parameters to run discrete fans.

I can confirm that the GUI lets you think you can make the change but its not working.
I put down some hours of work trying to figure out why it did not work...until I found this thread :(

Really annoying and my car still still needs the adjustment.
If anyone can help me out let me know.

[GMPX]

Yes thats what I’m saying and I’m not sure why EfiLive didn’t define all of the required Efan parameters to run discrete fans.
Because it is very difficult to understand the logic, how it works between all platforms etc and to find all those things in the bin files. We can't just call up GM and ask them how it all works and what tables / parameters are needed :unsure:

[LastCall]

I can confirm that the GUI lets you think you can make the change but its not working.
I put down some hours of work trying to figure out why it did not work...until I found this thread :(

Really annoying and my car still still needs the adjustment.
If anyone can help me out let me know.

What OS are you running?

[LS-SWAPPER]

You'll need to have some with HPT flash in the discrete fan settings or find someone who can create a CAX for you.

Ok, I don't want to have to go to "the other guys", but apparently they don't have this issue???

Is there anybody that can help me with a CAX file? I'm not quite there yet in my knowledge, I'm trying to educate myself but I'm a little slow in more ways than one.

This is a 2008 file that has been heavily modified to run an LS3 and a t42 tcm. The fans will turn on with the scanner but not with ECT. I'm looking for any help I can get. We really need this working.

I'm open to suggestions.

[LastCall]

Try the attached tune.

[joecar]

Thanks Jason.

[LS-SWAPPER]

Yes, thank you. I'll get it set up on the run stand and let it warm up and I'll report back. I really really appreciate the help.

[LastCall]

Yes, thank you. I'll get it set up on the run stand and let it warm up and I'll report back. I really really appreciate the help.

Did it work?

[LS-SWAPPER]

Haven't been able to try yet. My engine stand attention has been devoted to a gen5 engine the last couple days. I hope to have the gen 4 and the e38 up and running again on Monday. I'll report back.

[Hocky]

What OS are you running?

I'm running 12617631 on an LS3 with a Magnacharger, no MAF and 3 bar MAP.

[LastCall]

I'm running 12617631 on an LS3 with a Magnacharger, no MAF and 3 bar MAP.

Can you post your tune or email it to me?

[Hocky]

Can you post your tune or email it to me?

Here is my tune.
Thanks for giving it a try!

...and as you can see in the filename I also have trouble with the speedo not working :)

[LS-SWAPPER]

Did it work?

YES, it worked well. THANKS!

[LastCall]

Here is my tune.
Thanks for giving it a try!

...and as you can see in the filename I also have trouble with the speedo not working :)

Try the attached.

[proflash]

any one able to fix this one for me??

its been frustrating!!!22158

[Hocky]

Try the attached.

I will have a try next week, got some other things I had to do first...as putting the car back together from paint :)

I did try to open the file with the latest version of EFILive Tune 7.5.9 (build 320) and I get an error message that the file is saved with a more recent version? Is there any newer version available and what version did you use?

Thanks alot for giving it a try!!

[joecar]

Try this: Current-Public-Release-(May-2018) (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?28413-Current-Public-Release-(May-2018))

[LS-SWAPPER]

Is this issue something we can expect to be corrected in an upcoming update? I really hope it can be.

[koolky]

any one able to fix this one for me??

its been frustrating!!!22158

Try this:

22181

[Hocky]

Try the attached.

It worked, now I got in control over when the fan is on/off!
Really kind of you helping me with this irritating problem!

Do you got any PP or something so I can give you something for it, just PM me it if you want :)

Thanks once again!!

[LS-SWAPPER]

YES, it worked well. THANKS!

Well, I spoke too soon. The vehicle has been driving around the parking lot getting other parts of the build finished for a few week. The other day it got driven a little more...no shifting out of 1st gear. I went back and looked at the file (that works the fans properly) and it says its for a 6L80e. The original tune I was working with was for the t42 4L80e setup. Darn...so I guess I'm back to the drawing board.

I looked into it further, I cannot make a trans segment swap in this case, but I can make a "system" swap. Can someone enlighten me as to what that includes exactly? What would I be swapping over? Is there any chance I can just swap the system with the properly working fans into the tune with the properly working transmission? Obviously I'm going to try it anyway, I would love a little more in depth info so I can learn.

Lastcall I appreciate your help with this, its not your responsibility I know but if you would like to PM me for any reason that would be great. If not, I do appreciate you helping me with the issue up to this point.

[koolky]

LS-SWAPPER, try this file. I made the changes to your file from post #42. It's not segment swapped.

22287