Autocal Unlink

[Moonlight]

Have a customer with an AutoCal that would like to use our tuning. Is there a way to Unlink from his previous tuners V2 and link to ours? He is not worried about being able to access the tunes he had. Thanks

[2007 5.9]

Origin tuner must unlink themselves.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Depending on the tuner who has it linked your customer may be out of luck, I get inquiries weekly from customers who want to switch to my tuning, but if for some reason the original tuner they used is unwilling to unlink the Autocal then your customer and you are screwed.

Not everyone is willing, it's a shame that these Autocals get held hostage by tuners who are somehow butt hurt when their customer wants a separation from them and their tunes to follow another path.

Good Luck, hopefully the shop is willing to unlink it for your customer

[cindy@efilive]

Depending on the tuner who has it linked your customer may be out of luck, I get inquiries weekly from customers who want to switch to my tuning, but if for some reason the original tuner they used is unwilling to unlink the Autocal then your customer and you are screwed.

Not everyone is willing, it's a shame that these Autocals get held hostage by tuners who are somehow butt hurt when their customer wants a separation from them and their tunes to follow another path.

Good Luck, hopefully the shop is willing to unlink it for your customer

Have your customers publicly name them Tony. If for no other reason future customers will understand the potential impact of their purchase in the future.

Cheers
Cindy

[Moonlight]

Thanks Guys. That was what i figured but hoped there was a way around it.

[IdahoRob]

There is no reason I can think off that a tuner would not un-link an autocal, egos are rather large in this community but the autocal is a customers property and they should be open to using other tuners IMHO.

[minytrker]

No different than tuners locking ecm's and forcing the customer to buy another one when they switch tuners.

[comnrailpwr]

No different than tuners locking ecm's and forcing the customer to buy another one when they switch tuners.

Exactly. I am a tuner and I dont feel Like any tuner should be able to lock anything except for their work from being read out, viewed or modified. I have a customer with a pre tuned ecm from Nick at duramax tuner and he claimed they told him it would be $300 to unlock it and return it to stock so I can tune it. That is crap.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

With the E54 and E60 Autolocking the customer is in control of there ecm, they can always flash back to stock and restore the Seed Key, the LBZ/LMM DSP5 are locked due to the nature of the DSP5 flash from the read, but not a reflash.

And you are correct, the tuner's "tune file" is the intellectual property of that tuner, it should not be something the customer can share, copy or redistribute and it should be safe from an unscrupulous shop owner who would like to build a free library from our hard work.

Customers are never forced to buy a new ecm, they can always send it back to have it unlocked, although is may be a PITA for them it keeps everyone honest.

And I agree with Rob, the AUTOCAL is a customers property and should not be held hostage and tuners who rip off customers when they want their Autocal unlocked or their ecm unlocked and restored to stock give the industry a bad name.

[cindy@efilive]

I'm not disagreeing with anything that is said here, because IMO there is no harm (other than pride) in having an AutoCal unlinked - tunes are invalid, the unit is returned for unlinking so the Tuner can remove his/her branding but....

When you buy a traditional handheld tuner you can't just take it from one company to another and have someone else's tunes installed. You want a different brand of tunes, you go and buy that brand's handheld. In some cases AutoCal is simply another handheld tuner in the market.

The end user needs to understand THEY ARE NOT BUYING AN EFILive PRODUCT. They are buying the brand and service of a tuner on their hardware device (it just so happens we design, manufacture and provide software for those devices to Tuners). The end user DOES NOT have any rights (other than hardware warranty) to EFILive when it comes to AutoCal, the Tuner holds ALL those rights, which is the reason why we only offer support to Tuners not end users. The end user should enquire what they are purchasing before they purchase...

Just another way of looking at things....

Cheers
Cindy

[Dmaxink]

We do autocal unlinking with no questions asked and no money exchanged. I can't quite understand why a tuner would have as much pride as to not unlink a unit.... Most the time folks are just curious about what else is out there. I have unlinked around 10 to date... Not 1 out of those 10 were because anything ran bad or the customer was unhappy... They were simply curious as to what else was out there. Heck, I would be the same way as a consumer I'm sure, I cant even go to the gas station without buying the newest energy drink on the shelf!

Lol, just my .02

[vortecfcar]

It seems like an 'Unlink and delete all files' feature would be win-win for everyone in this situation. No mailing, no hurt feelings, no bullshit.

I'll vote yes.

Nick

[Dmaxink]

It seems like an 'Unlink and delete all files' feature would be win-win for everyone in this situation. No mailing, no hurt feelings, no bullshit.

I'll vote yes.

Nick

My vote as well!

[EagleMark]

That would cure the issues and stop pissing people off!

So if my vote counts? Yes!

[Blacky]

What Cindy said in post #10 sums up EFILive's position.

I can only add that we have sold thousands of AutoCals to many, many tuners all with the exact same agreement, that once the AutoCals are linked only the tuner who linked them can provide tunes for them. We cannot (legally) change the rules that were in place when tuners purchased their AutoCals. We did make one concession after-the-fact and that was to allow AutoCals to be unlinked at all - with the restriction that only the original tuner could make the decision to unlink the AutoCals.

If a tuner is unable to perform the actual unlink process (i.e. they might be out of business, or no longer have access to their FlashScan device) but the tuner is OK with the AutoCal being unlinked, EFILive will unlink them on behalf of a tuner, so long as the tuner gives EFILive permission to do so. If the tuner refuses to allow the AutoCal to be unlinked then there's nothing EFILive can do about it. It is the tuner's right to make that decision.

I understand that for some tuners and even some customers it seems like a crying shame that they can't use their existing AutoCal device that was obtained from another tuner who is either no longer contactable or just plain unwilling to unlink the AutoCal. However, that is the agreement under which AutoCals have been sold to tuners, we can't change that now.

There may be alternate strategies to linking put in place when FlashScan V3 is released but no decisions about that have been made yet, nor will be for a while.

Regards
Paul

[kangsta]

Well said Paul, I issue AutoCals and if anyone wants to have it unlinked all they needed to do is ask. I think people have forgotten that when Autocal was originally released, there was no facility to unlink at all.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Paul,

What about an additional check box when the Autocal is first linked that allows the original tuner to set it for remote "UNLINKING".

Then the original tuner can choose whether or not they set it up that way from the start.

If everyone here is in agreement and nobody here feels the need to keep them locked down to their V2 then what is the legal problem going forward.

Cannot EFI-Live change their policy going forward as many companies do and not have to make it backwards compatible ????

Just a suggestion.

[macca_779]

I always laugh at guys that lock their tunes. Frankly what is there to hide. If the customer goes elsewhere it's for a reason. As for intellectual property, please. Over 90% of a tune remains GM spec. We all rip off GM's work which is locked too but are provided the keys to get into it. I've also heard the warranty excuses if another tuner grenades a motor. Again this could happen to a dealership too but that's ok is it.

When it comes down to it if a tune is good the customer won't go elsewhere. Plus any so called secret data in there can easily be logged and generated into a MAP.

My opinion. But only tuners with something to hide lock their work.

[Dmaxink]

I always laugh at guys that lock their tunes. Frankly what is there to hide. If the customer goes elsewhere it's for a reason. As for intellectual property, please. Over 90% of a tune remains GM spec. We all rip off GM's work which is locked too but are provided the keys to get into it. I've also heard the warranty excuses if another tuner grenades a motor. Again this could happen to a dealership too but that's ok is it.

When it comes down to it if a tune is good the customer won't go elsewhere. Plus any so called secret data in there can easily be logged and generated into a MAP.

My opinion. But only tuners with something to hide lock their work.

Sorry, your wrong. I for 1 have nothing to hide, but have had my tunes come back to me as stolen many many times. Why? Because before I locked them, it really sucked to find out someone you sold tunes to was reselling them and not giving you any cut off your hard work. I am more than open to explain everything in the tunes I send, however, unlocked and open platform isn't happening.

Let's use the newly supported LML for instance... My files do things that others can't because I wrote the .cax files into it to do so... If that was to get into the wrong hands, then my 20k+ worth of investments (3rd party tools) on how to do what I do then becomes completely taken advantage of.

There is another way of looking at why at least I lock my tunes.

[macca_779]

But that's exactly what we all do to GM

[Dmaxink]

But that's exactly what we all do to GM

And GM does what they can to protect their work and it gets hacked. So as GM, I will at least protect my work so that when it does get hacked, I can at least say I tried.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

But that's exactly what we all do to GM

But what can be learned from a stock tune ??? NOTHING, but as Kory stated he has invested $20K and countless hours to get his tunes where they are as many of us have.

Why would we give that away by not locking our work ???

If your so confident that your tunes are so great and people are so honest as to not want to profit easily from your hard work then you have nothing to worry about as far as theft.

My suggestion is then post them all up so we can all have a copy, after all you have nothing to worry about...............RIGHT.

If you don't post up all your tunes with a description then you proved our point.

[cindy@efilive]

And the annual "why would anyone need to lock their tune thread starts"

It's always the same....different markets value different features, and for our diesel customers locking is a significant feature that is used extensively. Gas is a different story, it's used on a far lesser scale and in some cases even frowned upon. My guess is that for every 10 diesel tunes that get locked there would be maybe 2 locked for gas.

Cheers
Cindy

[anarchydiesel]

Locking tunes also keeps your liability down. That way a customer cannot get into the tune and decide, "lets see what 40 degrees of timing does" and then blames the original tuner when their bottom end becomes a can of marbles. Every tune I send out is locked except for our starter tune that we give away with V2 purchases which has only minimal changes. In the diesel world there is a thief around every corner and I have seen my work come back many times as well. I have no problem unlinking autocals, but once they are unlinked they do not get re-linked. Too many instances of tuner remorse.

[comnrailpwr]

Locking tunes is fine and I use quite often, as others stated it keeps from wondering eyes making money off your hard work. Locking controllers is what I dont agree with. I should be able to locally flash a truck if the customer bought a truck already with duramax tuner ecm. I Sold him some parts but Nick said $300 to unlock it which is crap.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

In case your confused, you can lock all the tune files you want.........you can put the restrictions on the tuning file and all someone has to do is read out the "CANNOT BE READ OR MODIFIED" tune you just permission restricted and they have the copy of the tune.

So locking the controller is the only way to secure the file.

Autolocking controllers for E54 and E60 solves the issue you are experiencing, why anyone would want $300 to unlock it is beyond me, unless they are not selling many ecms and want to make some $$$$$ by unlocking them.

[pestman1]

I would like to unlink my autocal that I purchased from ATP trucks