Main injection mode assignment

[rcr1978]

Can anyone shed some light on this table, it seams there is some info missing here for the top numbers 1-11. Also I can't find any option in the BBL to monitor run state other than the regen status it's either on or off not much info there. Maybe i'm making this more difficult than it is but there are 7 different tables to tune for timing, boost, fuel pressure, ect if you count the transient one so how can you tell what state your in when the engine could be in 8 different ones plus the other 1-11 possibilities that are across the top of the table?

16204

[dieselmd]

I am wondering the same also.

[rcr1978]

Has there been any progress in the PIDS for scanning? Maybe this may not even be possible but it be nice to know what mode the engine is in.

[RADustin]

Has there been any progress in the PIDS for scanning? Maybe this may not even be possible but it be nice to know what mode the engine is in.

has this gone anywhere?

I'm trying to find easily monitored variables that could be changed to confirm which mode the engine is in but I am having no luck.

I've been trying to do research on the edc17 ecm as a whole....not seeing anything for different modes.

[GMPX]

If we knew what they did the description would be in there :mrgreen:
But in all seriousness, no we don't know when each is used and it is very doubtful we will ever find out unless someone from Bosch is on here willing to help. I've looked at the Euro tuners for the EDC17's and same problem, just numbers referenced with no idea what they are doing. I know that isn't the answer you were hoping for but its all we can offer at the moment.

[RADustin]

If we knew what they did the description would be in there :mrgreen:
But in all seriousness, no we don't know when each is used and it is very doubtful we will ever find out unless someone from Bosch is on here willing to help. I've looked at the Euro tuners for the EDC17's and same problem, just numbers referenced with no idea what they are doing. I know that isn't the answer you were hoping for but its all we can offer at the moment.

well I commend you guys on giving us a way to tune these things. :thumb_yello: now we just have to figure out what to do with it. Maybe putting in a tiny fuel map on each mode at a time and datalogging can find most of the modes/if not all? I don't think a small variable change will be easily logged. Be nice if the speedo output was controlled with these modes. Then I could put in funny multipliers. :crash:

seems like it will be sweet when we figure it out and command it and have dsp5(or 6!).



basically it seems like we should just leave those maps alone currently? and copy paste the same timing/fuel/boost/ect maps across all the modes? <- general question to the masses.

making all the maps the same scares me though with how delicate the exhaust is.

[rcr1978]

Maybe just focus on mode 0 and leave the rest alone, if you study the table above you kinda get a idea what's active in each mode. Problem is you never know witch modes are active except the regen mode that ones easy. Modes 1&2 might be safe also but i'm not 100% it looks like just the standard HCCI operation and Nox regen this is just a guess though.

Edit: if you go through the timing tables they even seem weird in Modes 1&2 so maybe they may not be a good idea to change either lots of negative timing kinda like during a regen.

[RADustin]

Maybe just focus on mode 0 and leave the rest alone, if you study the table above you kinda get a idea what's active in each mode. Problem is you never know witch modes are active except the regen mode that ones easy. Modes 1&2 might be safe also but i'm not 100% it looks like just the standard HCCI operation and Nox regen this is just a guess though.

Edit: if you go through the timing tables they even seem weird in Modes 1&2 so maybe they may not be a good idea to change either lots of negative timing kinda like during a regen.

We can't change pilot timing in the lml? Or am I blind?

If you don't mind, I'm going to post some notes below....

Based on the amount of assignment charts, there are 7 possible injection events.

The main assignment chart matches pilot 1 and pilot 2.

Headers 1,9,10,11 are all the same in all assignments, all mode 0. I think this is important.

Pilot 3 and post 3 have all the same assignments, all mode 0. I think this is important.





All 3 sets of timing tables share the same pattern; no pilot, 1pilot, 1&2pilot.

low altitude mode 1 and mode 3 timing are the same. Mid and high are the same pattern.

mid altitude mode 5 is the same as 1&3. Same pattern for high altitude but NOT for low.

Pedal position mode to torque 1-5 is the same. 6 is different. There is no 0. What stands out is winter/trailer is shown to use the map for mode 6, and that map commands about 100 less ft-lbs. so based on this you will have more power NOT in tow haul?

Pilot 1, low altitude, mode 3 and 5 are the same quantities.

Pilot 1, mid altitude, mode 1 and 3 are the same quantities. As is mode 2 and 4.

Pilot 1, high altitude, mode 0, 2 and 4 are the same quantities. As is mode 1 and 3.

Pilot 1 w/ 2, low alt, mode 1, 3 and 5 are the same. As is mid alt modes 1, 3 and 5. Pilot 1, low alt, mode 3 and 5 also match these.

Pilot 1 w/ 2, High alt modes 1,3 and 5 are the same but different from low and mid alt.

Pilot 1, high alt mode 5 matches pilot 1 w/ 2 high alt modes 1,3 and 5.


Pilot 2, low alt mode 1 matches mode 3 and 5. As it matches mid alt mode 1, 3 and 5.

Pilot 2, high alt mode 1 matches 3 and 5. Modes 0, 2 and 4 also match here.


Max allowable air flow, mode 3 seems to allow the most. No real pattern here.


Last thing I looked at in this big comparison is the boost tables.

Desired boost, low alt, mode 2 and 4 are the same.

Desired boost, high alt, mode 1 and 3 are the same. Modes 2,4 and 6 are also the same.

Didn't notice any others that match.

Open loop vgt position,

Low alt mode 1 and 3 match. Same for mid alt.

High alt mode 2, 4 and 6 match.

The open loop vgt position mode select table(b0811) is weird and I don't understand it. It has possible units of 0 to 10 or 11 different. Does this table match up modes of the VGT to the 1-11 modes from injection main assignments?


I am thinking that mode 0 in the injection assignment charts go to non operation. A way to test this would be to make pilot 1 and 2 assignments all mode 0 and see how loud it runs( if the pilot turns off).


If I'm looking at this correct as I said above 1,9,10,11 are nothing.

Normal is not-mode0 at 3,4, and 8. HCCI is not-mode0 at 2,3,4,5 and 6. NOx is not-mode0 at 3,4 and 7. 3 and 4 show up in all these.

Basically, I think "normal" operation is 3 and "normal"+ dpf regen is 4 as regen stg 1 goes from mode 0 to mode 3 from 3 to 4. I think regen stg 2 is nothing for us. Looking at EGT, it goes from mode 3 to 1 as I think the dpf regen becomes active. If you look what I put above, many times 1 and 3 are identical, biggest exception being pilot 1 injection amount at low altitude.

If you subtract pilot 1 injection low alt mode 3 from mode 1 you'll notice they are the same except for more fuel in mode 1 at low and high rpm and high main injection volume. This makes sense to have more fuel during regen, I think.

Main, pilot 1 and pilot 2 are all the same assignments. But, post 1 changes only for mode 4...so according to my theory, post 1 only turns on during dpf regen.





Ok ok, just realized I'm barking up the wrong tree, as EGT high row can't be assumed to be indicative for injector mode. I'm not going to delete my wrong assumptions though so that maybe someone else's mind can be sparked.

I do think a mode 0 means not operational. I do think the 1-11 is the engine run state and we only use 7 of them (2-8). The normal, regen stg 1, Ect are just the "tasks" or operations that may be not active, or active and commanding a certain mode. Maybe we are(I am) thinking all modes are the same modes and maybe they aren't. When a mode 0 is present in a series of maps it is always radically different from the other modes, I have no theory for this.



Let's figure this out guys!

[rcr1978]

I have found that mine stays in mode 0 for the timing tables so far when the egr and urea are not active except during a regen, it was regening every 150-230 miles and 42 grams of soot no matter what stock and the soot level triggered the regen. I have now managed to go 385 miles ranging anywhere from 28-38 grams of soot, it seems to regen right at 100 liters of fuel used no matter the soot level but it's also been right at 385 miles or close everytime so miles could also be a trigger. Mine is a LGH so the regen triggers could possibly be different than the LML's.

[RADustin]

I have found that mine stays in mode 0 for the timing tables so far when the egr and urea are not active except during a regen, it was regening every 150-230 miles and 42 grams of soot no matter what stock and the soot level triggered the regen. I have now managed to go 385 miles ranging anywhere from 28-38 grams of soot, it seems to regen right at 100 liters of fuel used no matter the soot level but it's also been right at 385 miles or close everytime so miles could also be a trigger. Mine is a LGH so the regen triggers could possibly be different than the LML's.

Awesome.

What are you logging? I can do the same with my lml.

[rcr1978]

Kinda just a lot of misc stuff, everything is BBX since the V7 scan tool doesn't seem to really support much on this ecm. I guess look at my options file in your V8 BBX it's attached, it's nothing special and I spend some time going back and forth between different pid selections sometimes watching different things. I also found that some PIDS don't seem to play nice together or if to many are selected during logging some don't work.

[02CCSB]

I just want to revisit this thread to make certain of something....

It would seem to me, that unless a truck is in regen or EGR mode, it stays in mode 0 - ie - if the truck is deleted, this is the only table to be concerned with?

[GMPX]

everything is BBX since the V7 scan tool doesn't seem to really support much on this ecm.
I'm pretty sure most if not all the PID's for the LML in BBx are also in V7.5.


I also found that some PIDS don't seem to play nice together or if to many are selected during logging some don't work.
Bosch ECM's have always been like that :cussing:, we have a number of 'if Bosch' rules in the scantool lurking behind the scenes.

[rcr1978]

It's been a while since I messed with the V7.5 with this ecm maybe I will give it a little more effort again if you guys have worked on it.

Thanks

[BnT]

Is there any updates with this? I'm having the same problem what it seems like is we have to figure out how to trick the ecm. With that changing all the tables to the mode 0 numbers would make the truck run terrible.

[GMPX]

No BnT, no work has been done on the LML since 2014, we are currently on other long term projects.

[rcr1978]

I have had good luck with the old V7.5 scan tool since this tread was made, thanks for all your guys hard work!