LS9 with trailblazer SS E67 cal

[DURAtotheMAX]

Hi everyone....got a couple questions.

Background on the project:

2006 SSR with a GM Performance Parts LS9 swapped in.

Originally the shop that did the swap got it running with the GMPP E67 setup as standalone. But obviously none of the Class 2 stuff worked (instrument cluster, AC, etc). So the shop contacted someone at GM engineering to "turn on" Class 2 comms in the calibration so the gauges would work. Although there were still some issues.... GM engineering refused to enable cruise control, ABS/traction control PWM signal wires, and a couple other little things due to reasons of liability. And even though GM engineering enabled Class 2 comms, the PRND321 indicator still didn't work right. P, R, N worked....but D, 3, 2, 1 just made the display go blank.

And the speedometer was a little off. And couldn't be fixed with EFILive or HPT because that table wasn't mapped out in the GMPP OS.

So the shop contacted me to see if I could contribute any additional knowledge/advice since I have a decent background in the GM truck/SUV electrical systems, ABS, chassis controls, etc.

So heres what I came up with and have been working on the past couple days:

Swapped out the GMPP E67 LS9 calibration with a 2008 trailblazer SS E67 LS2 calibration. That fixed the traction control (although its still setting a C0279 incorrect powertrain configuration DTC, still working on that), PRND321 display, and will allow cruise to work once I add the additional wiring to the GMPP LS9 harness.

I had to do a little re-pinning of the GMPP LS9 harness to work with the trailblazer SS calibration, but its pretty much good to go now.

BUT obviously the TBSS E67 cal is setup for N/A, and the LS9 is supercharged obviously. And for some semi-annoying reason, EFILive has B8027, B8028, B8029 grayed out so I cant "enable" the supercharger stuff. HOWEVER. HP Tuners doesn't have those tables grayed out...you can change them.

So I read the calibration out with HP Tuners, changed the supercharger stuff to "YES", flashed it back in with HPT, read the calibration back out with EFILive, and sure enough, now B8027-B8029 now read "YES"...perfect, I think?

I also copied all of the GMPP LS9 calibration fuel, spark, etc, tables into the TBSS calibration, so the engine will run properly.

But since the 08 TBSS has a mechanical fan, now the E-fan had no control because its disabled in the TBSS cal.

SO...I went to PCM of NC website and found the patched EFILive file for e-fans enabled. Flashed that in, read the tune out with HPT, enabled supercharger stuff, flashed with HPT, then read out with EFILive, copied all the LS9 tables into the e-fan and supercharger patched EFILive file, flashed that in....and FINALLY....now I have an 08 TBSS calibration in there with e-fans ON, supercharger stuff ON, and LS9 tables copied in there.

WOW...that was a PITA. But its working.

The question I have...is what other stuff do I have to do to the TBSS E67 calibration to make it properly run the LS9? Doesn't the LS9 have some other ECM-controlled supercharger stuff? How is boost controlled on a factory LS9 (and GMPP LS9 calibration) calibration??? What additional sensors does the LS9 have that an LS2 doesn't?

Whats interesting.....is that if I go in with the Tech 2 and build the vehicle as a 2009 corvette, and then go into bi-directional controls and turn on/off LS9-specific stuff (like the intercooler coolant pump)......IT WORKS!! So the TBSS E67 cal must still have LS9 stuff in it...its just un-used in TBSS. Either that, or when I went into B8028, etc and changed it to "YES" with HPT....it "wakes up" and "turns on" all the LS9 supercharger controls in the E67 TBSS calibration????

Basically....now that the thing is running with no more check engine lights, ABS, speedo, factory gauges, cruise control, PRND321 display.......I just need to make sure that as far as running and making power safely, the TBSS E67 calibration (with supercharger stuff turned "on" with HPT) will run the LS9 properly, or as well as a factory Vette ZR1 LS9 calibration.

I cant use an LS9 vette calibration, because the Vette uses only GMLAN...no Class 2 comms are enabled in the Vette calibration. TBSS is the only E67 calibration with Class 2 still enabled. Well, and the Chevy Colorado too also has E67/Class2, but I figured the TBSS calibration was the closest E67 cal I was going to get to an LS9.

What say you guys?

Ben

[joecar]

Ben, wow, good job :cheers:

[ScarabEpic22]

Fun stuff, as a TBSS guy, I have been wondering if the s/c code actually exists behind the scenes so this is good news!

Just a heads up, I used PCMofNC's efan patches in EFILive format initially, but discovered they have updated their .hpt versions a few times and not the EFILive ones. I would download the HPT one and just mirror the settings in the HPT version of the tune, then flash that in.

[DURAtotheMAX]

Alright....made some good progress.

Got the traction control working, NO codes, e-fans working. Just need to wire up cruise control!! So basically now its a factory-swap. :D

Couple questions still...

The 128k pulses-per-mile output on the ECM is still off...so after a mile or so of driving, the ABS module freaks out because the front wheel speed sensor signals are greater than 10% off from the rear wheel speed sensor signal. So basically we're cruising down the road and the front WSS is reading 25mph and the rear wheel speed sensor is reading 17mph. Or something like that.

The E67 has a whole crapton of tables in the speedometer segment... H0102, etc. Yet I cant figure out what the hell they do. Some of them seem to change the 4k pulses-per-mile output to correct the speedometer.........but none seem to have any effect on the 128k PPM output....which is the one that goes OUT to the ABS module....which is the one we need to fix.

Any ideas? Or better descriptions of how the speedometer and 4k PPM and 128k PPM outputs work on the E67 with a TBSS calibration in it????

Like H0135... "factor??"

thanks
ben

[DURAtotheMAX]

Fun stuff, as a TBSS guy, I have been wondering if the s/c code actually exists behind the scenes so this is good news!

Just a heads up, I used PCMofNC's efan patches in EFILive format initially, but discovered they have updated their .hpt versions a few times and not the EFILive ones. I would download the HPT one and just mirror the settings in the HPT version of the tune, then flash that in.

What other changes have been made to the HPT tune versions?? Is it worth it to do that whole hokey-pokey reflash song and dance again just to get the latest HPT patched file in there???

The fans work just fine now...so im hesitant to screw around with it anymore...if it aint broke dont fix it?

[DURAtotheMAX]

The couple things that are still unknown....wondering if anyone had any input on these:

LS9 has separate barometric pressure sensor and MAP sensor
LS9 has two IAT sensors
LS9 has the "boost control solenoid"

Whether those are working or not with the TBSS calibration, im not sure. Its blizzarding here and the roads are covered in snow, so we can barely go 25% throttle without spinning out.

If the TBSS calibration doesnt support the separate MAP/baro sensor...how would that effect running the boosted LS9 and how would the TBSS calibration react?

And same with the IAT sensor. If only one IAT sensor is supported in the TBSS calibration....which IAT sensor location should I use on the LS9 into the TBSS ECM? The IAT sensor in the MAF sensor, or the second one? I assume the second one is post supercharger/intercooler....I havent looked that closely.

And as far as the boost control solenoid...if the TBSS calibration wont control that properly, what are my options for manually controlling the LS9 supercharger?

And final question...when tuning the LS9 on the TBSS calibration...I basically just opened up one EFILive instance with the GMPP LS9 calibration and a second EFILive instance with my custom TBSS calibration.......then I went through every single table and copy-pasted the LS9 tables into the TBSS calibration. I assume that should be pretty "safe" and "conservative" as far as a base tune? Not that im worried about it blowing up, but I just want to confirm my initial opinion that thats not a stupid thing to do....run it "as-is" right now with the "hybrid" TBSS/LS9 base tune.

Ben

[DURAtotheMAX]

Tried playing around with just about everything in the ECM and TCM speedo segment tables...set the diff ratios to 3.55, 4.56, etc..

NOTHING seems to have any effect on the 128k pulse-per-mile output. Which is critical to getting the ABS working properly and not set any WSS mismatch codes.

WTF...hmmmm....ideas?

[ScarabEpic22]

What other changes have been made to the HPT tune versions?? Is it worth it to do that whole hokey-pokey reflash song and dance again just to get the latest HPT patched file in there???

The fans work just fine now...so im hesitant to screw around with it anymore...if it aint broke dont fix it?

Just a few, mostly related to after-run time and the PWM % for how the fans ramp on. It isnt enough to warrant me changing it on my personal truck with a 2 relay efan kit, but when I do my 3 relay fan harness swap and new fans I'll do it then. All of my customers get a tweaked version of PCMofNC's version, they're all running PCMofNC harnesses but I like to change a few on/off and after-run params. :)

[Taz]

As a caveat, this is not my area of expertise. I did some preliminary work on an LSA / 6L90 Hot Rod project (going into a 1955 Nomad) that has been put on hold.

I recall that if the second IAT (IAT 2) temperature was too high, maximum boost pressure was reduced from 12 PSI to 7 PSI - so you will definitely need to fit the second IAT sensor.

I also recall looking at the binary coding of the ECM. There are the two switches that you activated with HPT (boost & inter-cooler), but I believe there is also a switch to enable the second IAT, and perhaps a "Master" boost enable switch. I never had the opportunity to test any of this - the research got filed, until the project gets underway again or another such project presents itself.

[DURAtotheMAX]

As a caveat, this is not my area of expertise. I did some preliminary work on an LSA / 6L90 Hot Rod project (going into a 1955 Nomad) that has been put on hold.

I recall that if the second IAT (IAT 2) temperature was too high, maximum boost pressure was reduced from 12 PSI to 7 PSI - so you will definitely need to fit the second IAT sensor.

I also recall looking at the binary coding of the ECM. There are the two switches that you activated with HPT (boost & inter-cooler), but I believe there is also a switch to enable the second IAT, and perhaps a "Master" boost enable switch. I never had the opportunity to test any of this - the research got filed, until the project gets underway again or another such project presents itself.

Yes...there is also a grayed out table to enable the second IAT sensor. Its visible in EFILive, but grayed out. I have NOT been able to find the table in HP Tuners...so I was never able to enable that one. Sorry for the confusion.

So basically...its annoying that EFILive has those listed, but grayed out. WHY???? They obviously work, IF we're allowed to change them!!!! Is it because of "potentially unknown results"?? That doesnt make sense though; they give us access to "dangerous" electronic throttle control tables with nothing grayed out/limited.....so why cant EFILive let us change B8027, B8028, B8029????

[DURAtotheMAX]

Also...the ABS issue has been fixed. Going in with the Tech 2 and setting the ABS module to the smallest possible tire size (P195/xx/R14 I think??) allowed the front wheel speed and rear wheel speed difference to come within 5%. So the speeds were still different, but closer together than they were before.

But what was VERY interesting was, within a mile or so of driving, the front wheel speeds and rear wheel speeds suddenly synced up, as viewed by the Tech 2 reading live ABS data. So it seems that, if wheel speed difference is greater than 10%, it sets a C0238 code. But if the difference is less than 10%, yet remains consistent, then the ABS module does some "learning" and recalculating and corrects for the difference. Very cool!!!

Ben

[DURAtotheMAX]

Just a few, mostly related to after-run time and the PWM % for how the fans ramp on. It isnt enough to warrant me changing it on my personal truck with a 2 relay efan kit, but when I do my 3 relay fan harness swap and new fans I'll do it then. All of my customers get a tweaked version of PCMofNC's version, they're all running PCMofNC harnesses but I like to change a few on/off and after-run params. :)

Ah ok. Yeah this is a very simple setup. Just one e-fan/relay. Its either on, or off.....so I dont see any need to reflash. It works fine, runs stable temp, doesnt overheat when left idling parked in a 70* shop, etc... Im just gonna leave it alone.

[ScarabEpic22]

Ah ok. Yeah this is a very simple setup. Just one e-fan/relay. Its either on, or off.....so I dont see any need to reflash. It works fine, runs stable temp, doesnt overheat when left idling parked in a 70* shop, etc... Im just gonna leave it alone.

Yea, leave it then ha!

[GMPX]

Yes...there is also a grayed out table to enable the second IAT sensor. Its visible in EFILive, but grayed out. I have NOT been able to find the table in HP Tuners...so I was never able to enable that one. Sorry for the confusion.

So basically...its annoying that EFILive has those listed, but grayed out. WHY???? They obviously work, IF we're allowed to change them!!!! Is it because of "potentially unknown results"?? That doesnt make sense though; they give us access to "dangerous" electronic throttle control tables with nothing grayed out/limited.....so why cant EFILive let us change B8027, B8028, B8029????

I'll tell you WHY Ben, greyed out calibrations are actually to minimise support questions and show people a reference only, simple as that.
Lets say someone has a Northstar E67 tune, they go turn all those on 'because my Northstar is now supercharged', it does nothing because all the underlying calibrations are not set up from GM.
Unpredictable results, yes certainly, can EFILive fix it? Probably not.
I can't tell you the amount of times we have been asked to enable those cals (B8027, B8028, B8029) on the E38 because HPT has them, well guess what, in the E38 code those do nothing, they can't, the ECM doesn't even have the outputs to control those functions, that is why we don't even show them on the E38. Same goes for the IAT2 sensor scaler, the table is in the E38 calibrations but bypassed in the code so what would be the point of showing it in an E38? We really do try to make life easier for you all.

The other thing to be careful of is sometimes GM use the same output for various functions, I don't know on the E67 what the Intercooler pump output might also be used for on other platforms.

It's the same old battle Ben, we try to minimise the potential to brick ECM's through bad calibrations (div by zero errors), minimise support questions, unfortunately sometimes we just can't win whatever way we choose, I could enable them for editing but I don't want to because it'll just cause more headaches that it is worth for us unless you want to pass out your GM engineering contacts details to everyone else to get all those underlying calibrations populated?

[DURAtotheMAX]

Ross- I sincerely apologize if my last post came off as an attack on you. I was just frustrated in the moment with the thing and my bad temper got the better of me when I was posting!

I completely understand why you did what you did as far as graying out the tables and after calming down and thinking about it, dont blame you one bit for making that decision.

I got it running well...but there is still a very strange torque reduction issue that is happening. The ECM or TCM is asking for strange/sporadic torque reductions. If you put the trans in manual-second gear and floor it from a stop, it boils the tires off, throttle follows accelerator position, throttle holds 100%...then on the 2-3 upshift, throttle drops to 50% or so, even though APPS still logs 100%. In park/neutral, it revs up fine and makes boost, etc. Its just in 3rd or 4th gear, something strange happens. 1st gear is "sometimes". You could do 5 back-to-back runs and the torque reductions never happen in the same place/same time.

Sometimes, at higher speed, if you floor it, on kick down, throttle will open to 100% for a couple seconds, then close to 50%...then half a second later it jumps back to 100%....then back down to 50%. I have no idea what is going on...because if the ECM just follows the damn accelerator position, it runs awesome. Makes full boost, etc. Got the wideband on it, and everything looks good there too. So now its really no longer a "tuning" issue per say....its a torque-limiting/reduction gremlin we're chasing.

Attached are the logs. Its easy to see in the log how the defuel to 50% throttle is random and doesnt seem to follow any pattern. Except in manual-2nd gear it runs great.

Whats odd is table B2804 is very different between the GMPP cal and the TBSS cal. I tried both variations, and neither made a difference.


So I have no idea what is causing the ECM to make those sudden drastic torque reductions. Or maybe the TCM is asking for it???

If anyone has any ideas, it would be greatly appreciated.... This is haunting me and giving me flash-backs of what the LLY ECM sometimes does....

[Highlander]

So the TBSS 2008 still uses class 2 to drive the cluster and a few things?

Thanks

[Taz]

So the TBSS 2008 still uses class 2 to drive the cluster and a few things?

Thanks

Yes ...

[04colyZQ8]

Also...the ABS issue has been fixed. Going in with the Tech 2 and setting the ABS module to the smallest possible tire size (P195/xx/R14 I think??) allowed the front wheel speed and rear wheel speed difference to come within 5%. So the speeds were still different, but closer together than they were before.

But what was VERY interesting was, within a mile or so of driving, the front wheel speeds and rear wheel speeds suddenly synced up, as viewed by the Tech 2 reading live ABS data. So it seems that, if wheel speed difference is greater than 10%, it sets a C0238 code. But if the difference is less than 10%, yet remains consistent, then the ABS module does some "learning" and recalculating and corrects for the difference. Very cool!!!

Ben

Interesting I need some help on 128k output with a E67, for starters what pin is it, and how did you enable it?

[Hyespeeder]

Hey guys any news on this build , I just picked up a project someone tried to swap a lsa/6l80e into a 06 Silverado they failed miserably. Does the tbss file have provisions for the iat2 sensor?

Also would the ipc functions work as well? example ... like the mpg and avg mpg instant mpg and whatever else that shows up on the dash

Thanks guys

[griffincox]

Any more info on how to enable Class 2 on a E67 that doesn’t have it enabled from the factory.

[04colyZQ8]

[QUOTE=griffincox;244149]Any more info on how to enable Class 2 on a E67 that doesn

[Highlander]

What os?

[griffincox]

What os?

I am looking for an OS from an LSA. Either a CTS-V or ZL1 LSA.

[griffincox]

Bump. Looking to have a LSA/LS9 OS run a 2008 GMT-360 with Class 2 functional. Any help?

[Hyespeeder]

Well there is no actual os for lsa worh class 2

I used the 09 tbss

I made everything work other than iat2
However as others na to blower swaps i put the iat2 sensor to iat wiring

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[04colyZQ8]

Well there is no actual os for lsa worh class 2

I used the 09 tbss

I made everything work other than iat2
However as others na to blower swaps i put the iat2 sensor to iat wiring

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

What year gmt 360? That's a trailblazer/envoy/Rainer/97x, etc I can do just about anything with a e67, I can enable class 2.

[ScarabEpic22]

If you have to pick a single year, do 09 TBSS first as it both the extended MAF and IFR tables. 07/08 are pretty similar and will run the same. 08 has the single, extended MAF table (but no extended IFR) vs 2 on the 07s. Can run an 07 OS in an 08 and vice-versa, so no real reason to do 07 over 08. 06s, well yay E40 there.