NGK AFX with V2

[Gav]

Hello,
First post as just got EFiLIVE to tune my LS1 AC COBRA.
I want to purchase a wideband and from alot of recommendations re widebands the NGK AFX seems popular but people seem to have issues setting up?
I have seen these ones http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NGK-NTK-Wide-Band-Powerdex-AFX-Air-Fuel-Gauge-Wideband-/400665005390?pt=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item5d497ecd4e
Just wondering if they are simple to set up and work ok with V2? Or should i just get a serial one and is there any literally plug and play?
Tried LS1TECH and they recommend asking here.
Regards
Gav
BTW i am in UK

[joecar]

Wideband with serial comms ability avoids voltage/ground offset errors, and avoids the digital-> analog and analog->digital conversion sequence (i.e. the wideband spits out a message telling you the AFR or lambda that it just determined from the sensor).


Analog wideband is easy to wire into the FlashScan V2, but serial wideband is also easy using a null modem cable or adapter.

[Gav]

Thanks Joe,
Have you used the NGK above and ok to set up? Or do you think i would be better off with this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-Wideband-UEGO-Oxygen-Air-Fuel-Ratio-Sensor-Module-SM-AFR-PLX-DIRECT-/150912614630?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item232317c0e6
Many thanks though
Gav

[joecar]

Hi Gav,

Many people have used NGK and PLX with success.

I use Innovate's LC-1.

[Gav]

Hello All,
Just wondering what is best way to go about my situation...
I have LS1/T56 with 1.75" headers(homemade), sidepipes, No cat (yet), No 02 sensors in loom, no knock sensors, no MAF.(OLSD tune)
TSP224R cam with mildly ported heads, 90mm TB.
NGK wideband

To pass our amateur builders test for cars i have to pass 2002 UK emissions which are:
Fast idle (2500 - 3000 rpm) CO <= 0.2% , HC <= 200ppm , Lambda 0.97 to
1.03 , at idle (450 - 1500rpm) CO <=0.3% (CAT test)

If it had an established date of manufacture before the 1st September 2002
the applied emissions standard would be:

Fast idle (2500 - 3000 rpm) CO <= 0.3% , HC <= 200ppm , Lambda 0.97 to
1.03 , at idle (450 - 1500rpm) CO <=0.5% (CAT test)

I dont have to have o2 sensors or a cat fitted to pass but will be hard without....

How can i attach my tune for you to see?
I have flashed my PCM for the first time today with minor changes to rear axle etc
My wideband is currently showing around 13.1 on both banks and i need to be 14.7 to pass i suppose or near as damn it.....
I cant drive the car to log it but just can idle on drive, i cant get to a DYNO either yet.
I intend just lowering the figures in the VE table in first few columns slightly to see if my idle afr alters, wish i could attach my tune...when i get close i intend taking car for a pre-MOT to check my emissions fully before i take to IVA station.
Any help greatly appreciated
Regards
GAv

[Gav]

17575
Have i done it?

[joecar]

Hi Gav, I just saw your tune posted, I'll take a look over the next few days.

[Gav]

Hi Joe,
Thanks for help so far anyway.
I have slightly altered that one to do the autoVE....
Also as i have to reduce noise emissions from exhaust i am making a decibel reducer which will probably throw the tune out slightly as well(send it rich?)
As above though, no knock,maf or o2 sensors in engine so OLSD and trying to tune at idle and fast idle for the settings above.
I will re-tune this week once i have fitted the baffle in exhaust then take to an MOT station to check the emissions...
Not sure what to do about the HI and LO spark tables once done as i have no knock sensors fitted or in loom...
Happy days...
Regards
Gav

[Gav]

Hi,
Sorry to bring this back up but hopefully i am getting somewhere...
I need to prepare my car for emissions now. I have 02 feedback working. I dont have knock sensors or maf.
I just need to tune to pass an mot.
I have had an emissions test and lam was 0.997, hc was around 40ppm, but co was slightly high at 0.352, got to be 0.2 at fast idle.
My questions are if i raise the commanded afr from 14.63 to 14.7 how do i do this? I want to run a slightly lean 1.01 1.02 ish mixture (will help with co going down i hope...) with clsd tune.
Also if this doesnt quite get me the results i want to drop my timing a little. I gather without the maf and knock sensors installed i would just be running off the lo spark tables? And is it just a case of lowering these?
I have a cat in each sidepipe and my headers are lagged down to the collectors so i hope this will be hot enough....
Please help, 5 years doing this now in uk and slowly loosing the will....
Regards
Gavin

[joecar]

If it's in Closed Loop, you have to play with tables B4105 O2 switch point and B4107 CL Mode.

If it's in Open Loop, look at table B3605 Commanded Fuel in OL.

[joecar]

Yes, with MAF DTC and/or KS DTC, you will be running from LO Spark table.

[joecar]

Don't lose your will, just keep chipping away at it...

Think of it like this: if you don't do this, what else is going to occupy all your time (any free time will be claimed by your wife) :)

[Gav]

thanks Joe,
Ok my setpoints are 365,435,435,435,450,500,500,550,550 for both banks, would dropping these by say 100?? would this lean my engine out and increase lamda to 1.02??
Need to play with readings to set idle and also the fast idle...for the emissions tests
Also what do i have to do with table B4107??
0.000000
4.000000
12.000000
30.000000
36.000000
40.000000
44.000000
50.000000
54.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
64.000000
etc etc
Regards
Gavin

[statesman]

Ok my setpoints are 365,435,435,435,450,500,500,550,550 for both banks, would dropping these by say 100?? would this lean my engine out and increase lamda to 1.02??

I wouldn't do that. You can get your high idle leaner by adjusting B4107.

Try something like this...
0.000000
4.000000
12.000000
16.000000
20.000000
24.000000
30.000000
36.000000
44.000000
52.000000
56.000000
60.000000
64.000000
with 64.000000 then continuing all the way to the bottom of the table.

[Gav]

Hello,
ok i need to prepare a few tunes before i go on the 7th oct as the tuner will charge me per hour. So why not adjust the switching points? Or is there something different with my current table b4107?
if i do a log prior go the 7th would someone be able to have a quick look at my timing as well to see if this seems abnormal or anything...?
Thanks all for the help so far.
regards
gav

[Gav]

Hi,
anything else i could prepare or do?
regards
gavin

[joecar]

Post any logs you take, we'll look at them.

statesman's suggestion of making B4107 less steep causes the lower part of B4105 to be referenced where the mV is lower.

[Gav]

Ok thanks both will try that on the 7th. Will try to do a log on sunday with parameters that may be useful.
much appreciated though.
regards
gav

[Gav]

Hello,
Ok have done an idle log and a fast idle log.
Do i need another MAF pid as the 1.58 doesnt move, or does this default to predicted anyway??2026120262
Regards
Gavin

[statesman]

Those logs won't tell us very much... we have no idea how well your cat converters are cleaning up the switching events. If you still fail the sniffer test, then you might have to go open loop to pass.

[Gav]

Ok thanks for looking though and will try your idea on friday this week regarding b4105
regards
gav

[joecar]

Hello,
Ok have done an idle log and a fast idle log.
Do i need another MAF pid as the 1.58 doesnt move, or does this default to predicted anyway??2026120262
Regards
GavinCan you also log HO2S2x (i.e. the post-cat NBO2 voltages)...


get the pid channel count down to 24 (remove the pids IBPW1/2), I want to see the HO2xx in best resolution.

[joecar]

Is 9 degrees spark timing at idle ok, should it be higher...?

[Gav]

Hi Joe,
i only have the precat o2 sensors if that is what you meant....
regarding spark, for idle 10deg it is very stable, for free revving fast idle 40deg ish. Would playing with these timings have much effect on the CO readings?
many thanks for your time with this.
regards
gav

[joecar]

Ah, of course, then as statesman said, we can't tell how well your cats are operating.

[Gav]

Hello,
fast idle and idle both passed without me altering tune. All i did before going this time was wrap my sidepipes as they exit the body. So IVA test here we come and if i need to up the lambda then i know what to try.
first time really driving the LS1 and something i have noticed is that there is no engine braking when i remove foot off the throttle, cable by the way. The engine just keeps revvs up and like that when i pull up to a stop, then eventually drops back to idle rpm. Strange and will have to fix this sometime.
thanks though for help so far.
regards
gav

[joecar]

Can you post your detailed test results here...?


Engine braking: several things need to be looked at: DFCO, throttle follower, throttle cracker, and possibly others... post some logs.

[Happy Jim]

Gav,
Bucket loads of engine braking is available with a bit of tweaking, the cruise control feeling is TC or TF related normally.

Regards

Jim

[Gav]

Will post results joe. Probably be a while before i can drive it again now as will be waiting for uk iva test.

Jim, is that you from uk cobraclub?
regards
gav

[Happy Jim]

Same one ;-)

Jim

[Gav]

Jim,
Your p1 is now in eh? Also the 230 cam. What you putting down if so? So jealous as this is the way i want to go. Are you on stock heads as well?
regards gav

[Happy Jim]

I've had the Cam in for years, lovely lope to it and very good for N/A, probably all sorts of wrong now that I've got the blower on (too much overlap), but that's the joy in having a surfeit of power ��. Heads are stock, but now the blower is on and working well (pushing 7 psi currently) I'm certainly not chasing any lost HP!

I've put on about 3K miles this year post blower install, so it's about time I did a dyno power run I guess just to see where I got too (I never had an absolute number I was looking for, it was primarily the challenge of making it all work) - at a guess? Just shy of 600 fwhp (or bat shit crazy in a 1 tonne car ;-)).

Jim

[joecar]

surfeit of power is still insufficient (you can never have enough power)... :w00t::angel_innocent::laugh::thumb_yello:

[Gav]

Hello again,
had time to browse here and ls1tech and maybe my problem with cruise control feeling might be that my tune is for an auto, but my swap is a t56 6 speed manual. Looking at other posts my op system may not support a segment swap or whatever that is and if i do change to a manual tune do i need more pcm inputs like clutch? If so that maybe a piarse as loom doesnt have that in. Op system is 12208322 and isnfor a 6.0 auto. Mine is 5.7 and with a 90mm tb.
any ideas on what is best to do? Open another thread?
regards gav