Help looking over tune

[kylelavergne]

1st tune i've built with efilive. I need someone to check over my tune & see if there is anything else that can be done to get more lo-mid range power, take off, throttle response out of it. I still can't spin the tires for some reason. Also see if anything needs to be changed in the tune. Help greatly appreciated!!

2005 Chevy 2500HD 6.0L Gas 4WD w/4L80E Trans
Mods: Airaid Cold Air Intake/Throttle Body Spacer, Magnaflow Exhaust, No CATs, Yukon 4.56 Ring & Pinion, Yukon Posi-Trac Locker, 3 Inch Lift, 35 Inch Mud Grapplers, Trans-Go Shift Kit.

ALWAYS RUN 93 OCTANE

Modded Tune is MY TUNE. Other is FACTORY TUNE for my truck:

16560

16561

[bmd2_colo]

Your ass end is heavy with that 14FF axle, but with those gears you should be able to at least chirp them with consistency, I would think. I haven/t messed with any DBW settings (I have DBC for both rigs) but I'm sure pulling some TM will help. That first gear in the 80 is a dog... something like 2.2X vs the 3.06 in the 60Es. Still tho, you've got plenty of gear for 35s in that hog. I'm a noob but I'll take a look at it, no sweat man

[bmd2_colo]

Different OSs between the cals, did you read your PCM then make changes to it and then reflash with that cal? The LS1BKyle_Modded2.ctz file? Probably, just checkin

[bmd2_colo]

Looks like you disabled TM and TCS all the way and eliminated torque limiting. Also added 2 deg to Hi Octane spark and copied into low octane. No knock counts under hard accel? Also noticed you zeroed out shift times for normal and perf mode, I'm not sure if leaving .25 sec or something like that isn't a bad idea, someone might say it is ok to zero out all the shift time tables but who knows. Also, about removing TM. I think the general consensus is that if you wipe TM/Limiting 100% you should raise the shift pressures a smidge. And then shorten up shift times a smidge.
I would log it and see if you're not getting some knocks on hard accel and then the PCM pulls timing. Experts will be along shortly, I'm sure.

[kylelavergne]

i can barely spin them in the rain bmd2_colo. The guys at the off road shop told me i should be able to roast 35's with those gears so idk whats goin on. The modded file is from my truck. i dont have my actual stock file bc i had a guy tune it with efilive before i bought the software. i jus got his tune out my truck & went off that. the other file is a stock file for my truck from tune depot. I took all TM & TCS off. i watch it closely though. still cant spin them. lol. no knock retard at all. i need to fine tune it with my VE tables which i dont know how. i will put my times to .25 sec. how high should i raise shift pressures? what shift times do i need to run? i've logged it already. i had to come down to 2 deg bc i was getting a little knock retard. Again im new to this, thats wht im asking all these questions. lol Appreciate all the help i can get!!

[bmd2_colo]

I hear yah, man. Yah, just see if you're gettin a bunch of SA retard when you try to break them loose. That will knock one thing off of the list of possible probs.
Does the 80e act normal when you're driving around? Can you tell a difference betwen pre/post shift kit install? Did it help or hurt the way your truck picks up from a stop?

[bmd2_colo]

I'm assuming you've tried to break them loose with the tow/haul/performance button pushed in? Shift pressure is gonna need to go up in your 'Normal" columns, in my humble noob opinion.

[kylelavergne]

what is SA retard & how can i check it? Acts perfect. I tuned it a little better than the other guys tune. Very smooth in part throttle but can def feel the shift kit in WOT. You can tell a difference with the kit. I think it helped a little on pick up. nothing major though.

[kylelavergne]

I'm assuming you've tried to break them loose with the tow/haul/performance button pushed in? Shift pressure is gonna need to go up in your 'Normal" columns, in my humble noob opinion.

I have tried both ways. No luck either way dude. How much should i go up? If you can give me a round about i can fine tune from there. Just dont want to go too high.

[bmd2_colo]

just run scan tool with the "default imperial.pid" list and jump over to the dashboard, it will give you basic realtime info on the essentials.

Spark Advance Retard. PCM commands a given spark advance for the ignition system for whatever you do with your right foot, then pulls it out if the knock sensors start picking up knock counts.

Sounds ok with the shift kit, ok cool. Well I would say try tacking on 10% to the stock shift pressures for both normal and performance, and reducing shift times by 20% from stock for both normal and perf.
I've made the above changes to my Tahoe and 91 with an LQ4 and it helped it out a bit, especially in the Tahoe. Those are not extreme adjustments, so no worries. See how it does

[bmd2_colo]

Try blending the 10-15% pressure change from 15% near low ft/lb level then tapering off towards the high-end stuff. Same with time changes. See what works best.

Or not; when you're goin full boogey at WOT it is probably best to keep the pressures up. Yah, try a 15% pressure up and -20% time change. See how it works

[bmd2_colo]

I'm talking about changing the stock tables, so copy the ones from the stock tune into yours and then change from there. If you're scootin right along at WOT then you're probably not getting any SA retard, but doesn't hurt to check.

[kylelavergne]

Ok dude. I'll try that out & let you know what happens. Would you like me to post a log file to better look at things? If so any specific PIDs?


just run scan tool with the "default imperial.pid" list and jump over to the dashboard, it will give you basic realtime info on the essentials.

Spark Advance Retard. PCM commands a given spark advance for the ignition system for whatever you do with your right foot, then pulls it out if the knock sensors start picking up knock counts.

Sounds ok with the shift kit, ok cool. Well I would say try tacking on 10% to the stock shift pressures for both normal and performance, and reducing shift times by 20% from stock for both normal and perf.
I've made the above changes to my Tahoe and 91 with an LQ4 and it helped it out a bit, especially in the Tahoe. Those are not extreme adjustments, so no worries. See how it does

[bmd2_colo]

yah man, that would be great. Don't need anything special right now, I think.

[kylelavergne]

yah man, that would be great. Don't need anything special right now, I think.

Ok. I'm workin on my tune now. Gonna flash er when i get off n a few minutes & post the log!!

[bmd2_colo]

roger that

[bmd2_colo]

Also try lowering B3609 to zero. PE/WOT delay. Lowering the PE TPS% enables will also make it easier for you to get into WOT. Obviously will burn more fuel. I'd be ok with dropping them down to 65-70%, but that's just me. Obviously shooter preference on this stuff

-might wanna disable abuse mode also. Change B1207 to 1

[bmd2_colo]

be back later bro. Also, I know you're makin a bunch of changes here, take a minute and try to make 1 change at a time. pressure/time stuff, test. PE changes, test. Abuse mode change, test. see what happens

[kylelavergne]

Also try lowering B3609 to zero. PE/WOT delay. Lowering the PE TPS% enables will also make it easier for you to get into WOT. Obviously will burn more fuel. I'd be ok with dropping them down to 65-70%, but that's just me. Obviously shooter preference on this stuff

-might wanna disable abuse mode also. Change B1207 to 1

PE TPS% would be table B3616? adjust to 65-70?

[bmd2_colo]

I meant B3608 to zero, and dropping Hot and Normal PE mode enable to 70%. ok seriously leaving. lol later

[kylelavergne]

Made Changes to previous tune:

Transmission Calibration.Desired Shift Times
{D1108} Desired 1-2 Shift Times, modified.
{D1109} Desired 2-3 Shift Times, modified.
{D1110} Desired 3-4 Shift Times, modified.
__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Mar 20, 2014 16:42:14


Transmission Calibration.Desired Shift Times
{D1108} Desired 1-2 Shift Times, modified.
{D1109} Desired 2-3 Shift Times, modified.
{D1110} Desired 3-4 Shift Times, modified.

Transmission Calibration.Trans Pressures
{D0701} Base Pressure 1->2 Shift, modified.
{D0702} Base Pressure 2->3 Shift, modified.
{D0703} Base Pressure 3->4 Shift, modified.
__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Mar 20, 2014 17:11:41


Engine Calibration.Fuel.Mixture
{B3609} PE Delay Counter Adjustment, modified.
__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Mar 20, 2014 17:16:31


Engine Calibration.Fuel.Mixture
{B3615} Hot PE Mode Enable, modified.
{B3616} Normal PE Mode Enable, modified.

Engine Calibration.Abuse Management
{B1207} Abuse Management Vehicle Speed Threshold, changed from "256" to "1".
__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Mar 20, 2014 18:13:33


Engine Calibration.Fuel.Mixture
{B3608} Delay before Entering PE Mode, changed from "60" to "0".
{B3615} Hot PE Mode Enable, modified.



Truck has alot more top end response & shifts better!! This is the NEW TUNE & a LOG:

16562
16563

Any other suggestions or tips?? Loving the improvements!!

[kylelavergne]

I meant B3608 to zero, and dropping Hot and Normal PE mode enable to 70%. ok seriously leaving. lol later
What tables would this be?

[bmd2_colo]

you changed them already. My bad on the typos. Glad to hear it is working mo betta. I haven't checked out your log yet, gimme a min to check it out

[bmd2_colo]

looks like it isn't knockin TOO bad. Might want to pull a deg or two where it is knocking in the upper MAP areas.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x246/bmd2_colo/log_zpsee8069e4.jpg

[bmd2_colo]

Gettin it to launch hard off the line will be a bit more involving, I think. Stock converter, heavy truck, etc. Could try messing with the REV limiter (although I personally think that is a bad idea on a truck, maybe not a vette), maybe changing the trans RPM shift levels (like which RPM is the point where it goes from 1st to , 2nd to 3rd, etc). Gettin the engine up into high RPM as fast as possible where it likes to run could help a lot. Just make sure you have a clean backup copy so if you mess something up you can reflash if you forget what changes screwed whatever up. The CalcVET thread is great, maybe run a CALC_VET session on your truck some time.

I know you're trying to get it to run hard and fast but goin full boogey on the HD isn't the best thing for the trans, etc. You know all of this tho. I don't really tune my trucks for launching hard and stuff, so maybe someone else can help you out with that stuff. Ask away about CALC_VET, took me a minute or two to get it set up so don't get frustrated.

[kylelavergne]

looks like it isn't knockin TOO bad. Might want to pull a deg or two where it is knocking in the upper MAP areas.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x246/bmd2_colo/log_zpsee8069e4.jpg

How do i tell what areas to pull from?

[kylelavergne]

Gettin it to launch hard off the line will be a bit more involving, I think. Stock converter, heavy truck, etc. Could try messing with the REV limiter (although I personally think that is a bad idea on a truck, maybe not a vette), maybe changing the trans RPM shift levels (like which RPM is the point where it goes from 1st to , 2nd to 3rd, etc). Gettin the engine up into high RPM as fast as possible where it likes to run could help a lot. Just make sure you have a clean backup copy so if you mess something up you can reflash if you forget what changes screwed whatever up. The CalcVET thread is great, maybe run a CALC_VET session on your truck some time.

I know you're trying to get it to run hard and fast but goin full boogey on the HD isn't the best thing for the trans, etc. You know all of this tho. I don't really tune my trucks for launching hard and stuff, so maybe someone else can help you out with that stuff. Ask away about CALC_VET, took me a minute or two to get it set up so don't get frustrated.

I have all my WOT rev limits set high. wanna say like 5900 RPM. Rev Limiter is off. I saved my origional tune as a back up. lol. How do i do the CALC_VET? Never heard of it.

[joecar]

B0120: set to 4000 rpm.
B3616: set to 65% below 3200 rpm, 35% above 3200 rpm.
B4206: set to stock (131*F above 50*F).

D0960,1,2: set to 100% everywhere.
D0701,2,3: increase pressure early (eliminate the flat spot down low).

TCC Apply/Release tables:
you have the tables "upside-down"...
you must observe these rules:
3rd release < 3rd apply
4th release < 4th apply

[joecar]

Calc.VET procedure, see post #1 here: Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-(in-single-log) (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-(in-single-log))

[bmd2_colo]

The numbers in the lower right area of the table are where the computer is pulling x amount of degrees of spark advance because of knock. Go into your Spark High and low tables and minus the amount that the computer is pulling from the table above in those cells. e.g. 4400 rpm 90 kPA MAP pull 3 degress from that cell in your hi/lo tables. Blend the values with the surround cells.

[bmd2_colo]

joecar is the man, squared me away.

[kylelavergne]

B0120: set to 4000 rpm.
B3616: set to 65% below 3200 rpm, 35% above 3200 rpm.
B4206: set to stock (131*F above 50*F).

D0960,1,2: set to 100% everywhere.
D0701,2,3: increase pressure early (eliminate the flat spot down low).

TCC Apply/Release tables:
you have the tables "upside-down"...
you must observe these rules:
3rd release < 3rd apply
4th release < 4th apply

B5913:9200lbs is GVWR. How would i "tweak" this table?
B4206:I guess stock would be enable. lol
D0701,2,3:How much to increase on early side & where to start/finish?

TCC Apply/Release Tables:
I did't mess with them. How would i fix this?

THANKS FOR THE HELP JOECAR!!!

[kylelavergne]

The numbers in the lower right area of the table are where the computer is pulling x amount of degrees of spark advance because of knock. Go into your Spark High and low tables and minus the amount that the computer is pulling from the table above in those cells. e.g. 4400 rpm 90 kPA MAP pull 3 degress from that cell in your hi/lo tables. Blend the values with the surround cells.

I kinda get it. How do i get to that map in scan tool? What should knock retard be? I was told +/- 1 deg was good. How do i know how much timing to pull off?

[joecar]

B5913:9200lbs is GVWR. How would i "tweak" this table? <--- depends on GVW and gearing; I saw that stock B5913 is same.
B4206:I guess stock would be enable. lol <--- I meant B4205, sorry for the typo.
D0701,2,3:How much to increase on early side & where to start/finish? <--- Immediately start increasing from zero and hit 70 psi by 295 tflb, and keep going up to 96 psi.

TCC Apply/Release Tables:
I did't mess with them. How would i fix this? <--- make appy curve be all above the release curve, do this for each of 3rd and 4th.

[bmd2_colo]

On the table thing,
edit properties, data is GM.KR or something like that, lookin for Degrees of spark retard.
Column- MAP pressure, KPA from dropdown menu
Row- Engine RPM, from dropdown menu

Gotta copy with labels from your B0120 Main VE Table and click 'paste labels' in each menu for for each tab, Row and Column.

Then load your log, hit average (x with line over it) and check out how much spark it is pullin.
I don't really think any knock is a good thing. Detonation in any engine would be bad, I think. Especially heavy ass rigs like yours and mine.
You test out joecar's recommendations yet?

[Big Mike]

Couple curiosities.

Why run with rev limiting totally disabled? Seem counter productive.

Why are most of your axle torque limiting settings LOWER than stock? By about half as much as stock in some. I see you have axle torque "disabled" but only doing that doesn't always kill them all by default. Thus they should still all be maxed out in the individual tables too.

Also try setting B6609 to zero instead of the max value you have it currently. Some truck OS need it maxed to disable (640 ft lbs), others need it zeroed. I've seen them both ways.

There's a lot of meat left in your spark tables with running 93 oct. We run 91/92 (E10) here and the 6.0's like a lot more timing in many of the areas where you're running very little. Burst knock table needs reduced too. This is one table that assists in low speed hard throttle transitions. Like say trying to spin the tires. Need to for KR during full throttle downshifts afterward though.


Joe- the "upside down" TCC tables are the way the 4L80E trucks are. Every one I've seen at least. Same with the upshift/downshift points. They're often "upside down" (from the typical car calibration) too.

[kylelavergne]

Couple curiosities.

Why run with rev limiting totally disabled? Seem counter productive.

Why are most of your axle torque limiting settings LOWER than stock? By about half as much as stock in some. I see you have axle torque "disabled" but only doing that doesn't always kill them all by default. Thus they should still all be maxed out in the individual tables too.

Also try setting B6609 to zero instead of the max value you have it currently. Some truck OS need it maxed to disable (640 ft lbs), others need it zeroed. I've seen them both ways.

There's a lot of meat left in your spark tables with running 93 oct. We run 91/92 (E10) here and the 6.0's like a lot more timing in many of the areas where you're running very little. Burst knock table needs reduced too. This is one table that assists in low speed hard throttle transitions. Like say trying to spin the tires. Need to for KR during full throttle downshifts afterward though.


Joe- the "upside down" TCC tables are the way the 4L80E trucks are. Every one I've seen at least. Same with the upshift/downshift points. They're often "upside down" (from the typical car calibration) too.

i jus set it that way with the rev limiter. Should i turn it back on?

I never noticed the torque limiting. what tables?

i'll try the b6609 table setting

i don't really know how to adjust a spark table that much. i just know how to add spark to the whole high/low spark table. could you help me with the tables?

[kylelavergne]

i'll post my improved tune later today with another log. for some reason though my truck started running hot since last night. if i get in it it jumps in temp. other than that i love the improvements!! truck has a little more low-mid range power. you can feel a little improvement. take off is still about the same.

[bmd2_colo]

Interesting on the burst knock stuff. Read up on that last night, good info

[kylelavergne]

Interesting on the burst knock stuff. Read up on that last night, good info

Ya i know. I wish i knew how to fine tune spark tables :throw:

[bmd2_colo]

lots of good info here on the forum. Try out one of these threads, maybe. Helps me out a bunch

http://forum.efilive.com/forumdisplay.php?14-General-(Petrol-Gas-Ethanol)

[joecar]

...

Joe- the "upside down" TCC tables are the way the 4L80E trucks are. Every one I've seen at least. Same with the upshift/downshift points. They're often "upside down" (from the typical car calibration) too.Being upside-down can prevent TCC from applying predictably.

[joecar]

Yes, set some sensible value (if not stock) for the rev limiters... and make sure the WOT MPH shift points converted to RPM are below the rev limiters.

[kylelavergne]

Updated tune again. She's gettin better & better. Def feel more low-high end performance. Little more take off but not much. Shift points r awesome!! Would like to get more into the spark tables but dont know how. Thanks for all the suggestions guys!! GREATLY APPRECIATED!! Still looking for more low end & take off. I lack those 2 areas.

16567

16566

[joecar]

Question about B5913 HO Spark Timing table is: why did GM make it so low in the high load area...?

If GVW is high, then that's maybe why.

Usually you can increase timing from stock a little and get away with it (i.e. no further appreciable knock)... BUT.

[kylelavergne]

Question about B5913 HO Spark Timing table is: why did GM make it so low in the high load area...?

If GVW is high, then that's maybe why.

Usually you can increase timing from stock a little and get away with it (i.e. no further appreciable knock)... BUT.

I've noticed that also. is there a way to correct this?

[Big Mike]

Question about B5913 HO Spark Timing table is: why did GM make it so low in the high load area...?

If GVW is high, then that's maybe why.

Usually you can increase timing from stock a little and get away with it (i.e. no further appreciable knock)... BUT.It is because of the high GVW these trucks were designed for. Keeping the high load area very low allows them a ton of safety margin while towing 10k up a 4% grade even on substandard fuel. Running dedicated better octane fuel I find some of the areas can be more than tripled from stock and do so without detonation while adding considerably to the pulling power.

Most of the power increase on these (stock) 6.0 trucks comes from working on the timing tables since they're so conservative for Mr. John Q. Customer.

[bmd2_colo]

16568


Raised your spark a little bit, compare the two in EFILive so you can see the diff.
Big Mike brought up some good points, bro. Adding spark advance will make your truck more prone to detonation, NO DOUBT. It’s up to you how far you wanna go, just log it and if it it knocking, back off the spark. Too much spark=knocking=pieces of your piston heads will start to break. Bad day. Read your plugs, see if they have signs of detonation. When you change spark, your fuel burn is gonna change. Generally more spark=leaner chamber, less spark=more rich. So after this,run a CALC_VET and clean up your MAF and VE. It is changing with your spark advance changes.
Did you include in addition to the default imperial.pid list, gm_dyncylair.dma pid? Include that pid in the next log.
Gotta run, exhaust shop appt for my Tahoe.
Easy on that right foot, man!! Lol

[kylelavergne]

16568


Raised your spark a little bit, compare the two in EFILive so you can see the diff.
Big Mike brought up some good points, bro. Adding spark advance will make your truck more prone to detonation, NO DOUBT. It’s up to you how far you wanna go, just log it and if it it knocking, back off the spark. Too much spark=knocking=pieces of your piston heads will start to break. Bad day. Read your plugs, see if they have signs of detonation. When you change spark, your fuel burn is gonna change. Generally more spark=leaner chamber, less spark=more rich. So after this,run a CALC_VET and clean up your MAF and VE. It is changing with your spark advance changes.
Did you include in addition to the default imperial.pid list, gm_dyncylair.dma pid? Include that pid in the next log.
Gotta run, exhaust shop appt for my Tahoe.
Easy on that right foot, man!! Lol
So i tried the new tune & it feels better in mid range. I need to go log it real quick. How do i do this CALC_VET? Ive read the tutorials but i'm not getting it. lol

[kylelavergne]

New tune & log file guys. Shes gettin better everytime! Still cant spin the tires but starting to bark them!! :notacrook: Low end is better but wanting more & more take off. mid-high ramge is amazing!! Thanks again to everyone who helped me out!! Learning a few tricks finally!!

16569

16570

[joecar]

Post #1 of the Calc.VET Thread (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-%28in-single-log%29) tells you what you need to log... it has all the instructions.

read each sub-section of post #1 and report back here with questions.

[kylelavergne]

Did i do this right? Someone please help!! This is the log for CALC.VE & the tune with the adjustments i made.

16581

16582

[joecar]

Your wideband is not connected...

so then:
- CALC.WO2BEN is not valid.
- CALC.SELBEN is valid only when CALC.CL is 1.
- you have to add a clause to the transient filter to exclude the following condition: CALC.CL not equal to 1.

[joecar]

VE table is wrong, go back to stock VE table.

[joecar]

Since you have no wideband, you must filter out any data for which CALC.CL is not 1 (edit the transient filter to do this)...

after you do this, you can correct the MAF table, and see how the VE table calculates.

[kylelavergne]

Since you have no wideband, you must filter out any data for which CALC.CL is not 1 (edit the transient filter to do this)...

after you do this, you can correct the MAF table, and see how the VE table calculates.


Tried again. This is what i get. Still looks wrong. :wtf1:

16610

Used previous log file again

PLEASE HELP!!

[joecar]

Post screenshots of the following:
- transient filter,
- MAF map from the log (with transient filter applied)(with units displayed on each of Data/Row/Col),
- VE map from the log (with transient filter applied)(with units displayed on each of Data/Row/Col).

Post your new log file.

[kylelavergne]

Post screenshots of the following:
- transient filter,
- MAF map from the log (with transient filter applied)(with units displayed on each of Data/Row/Col),
- VE map from the log (with transient filter applied)(with units displayed on each of Data/Row/Col).

Post your new log file.


it wont let me post them. says the files r too big

[joecar]

Try emailing it to me.

How big is it...?

[kylelavergne]

Try emailing it to me.

How bit is it...?

Jus emailed tune & logs

[joecar]

I did not see any email...

try cropping the log and post it here.

[joecar]

Also, post screenshots of the following:
- transient filter,
- MAF map from the log (with transient filter applied)(with units displayed on each of Data/Row/Col),
- VE map from the log (with transient filter applied)(with units displayed on each of Data/Row/Col).

[kylelavergne]

Hey guys I've been working on my tune lately. Made a few changes. Tell me what yall think. Any help is greatly appreciated!!! I've also posted a factory tune for my truck.

17032

17033