AutoVE - 3 questions I need help with

[Learning]

I am trying to work through the AutoVE tuning and have had lots of help from a friendly forum member but I don't want to take up all of [I]his[I] time with my problems.


Can you guys help me out with three questions?

-How long do I have to drive around in AutoVE mode before pasting the average cell counts to my Tuning VE table? Five minutes, thirty minutes, one day?

-Can someone post some examples of what a good average cell count should look like in the Scan software? How many times should I expect to log, copy and paste before the VE numbers are all close to 1.00? I have done it about six times and the car runs worse each time :( so my gut is telling me I am doing something wrong!

-The tutorial says "Hide all cells with a value of less than 50". How do I do this? There is a button that says "Hide cells with low cell counts" but this deletes cells with single digit counts, not just below 50.
When I look back at my Base Efficiency 1 LC-1 Cell Count some of the cells have up to 433 "counts" while others are blank or only show 1. Does this mean I have to drive more before I use this log in my Tuning VE Map?

EDIT I have 4 questions :D

-How do I know my AFs are rich enough and my car isn't knocking to death while I am out doing all this AutoVE tuning? I have a 500hp, hi-comp engine and I don't want to blow it up in the tuning process! Do I need someone in the car monitoring the EFILive Dashboard the whole time, making sure it doesn't go leaner than 13.0 @ WOT? Am I shooting for 14.63AFR at cruise and idle?

Thanks for your time.

[joecar]

-How long do I have to drive around in AutoVE mode before pasting the average cell counts to my Tuning VE table? Five minutes, thirty minutes, one day? It can take about 20 minutes, but you have to hit a wide range of RPM and throttle combinations.


-Can someone post some examples of what a good average cell count should look like in the Scan software? How many times should I expect to log, copy and paste before the VE numbers are all close to 1.00? I have done it about six times and the car runs worse each time :( so my gut is telling me I am doing something wrong! Should be able to get quite a few cells in 1 or 2 attempts, or say less than 4 attempts;
Each time, the BEN's should get closer to 1.00;
After that the BEN's won't change anymore (although you might hit a cell or two that you never hit before).

See below, this is an example of what I got using black box logging (23 minutes);
it shows that I have to hit the higher MAP and higher RPM areas,
and I could have higher cell counts (I can cheat a little by hiding cells with less than 25 counts, say);
but it lets me dial in the areas where I got > 50 cell counts.

Look at what cells you did not get (take note of RPM and MAP),
go for another drive paying attention to drive differently (larger throttle gives larger MAP values)'
about 40% of the cells will not be hit on the street, that's okay since you'll never hit them anyway
(also you don't want to abuse your auto trans too much).


-The tutorial says "Hide all cells with a value of less than 50". How do I do this? There is a button that says "Hide cells with low cell counts" but this deletes cells with single digit counts, not just below 50.
When I look back at my Base Efficiency 1 LC-1 Cell Count some of the cells have up to 433 "counts" while others are blank or only show 1. Does this mean I have to drive more before I use this log in my Tuning VE Map? See the third picture down; yes you might have to do more driving;
you don't want the value from a single count cell because the value may be a fluke;
averaging the values of a multicount cell statistically eliminates fluke values;

Be sure to apply the "throttle rate and low coolant temperature" filter,

Be sure to follow all the steps in the AutoVE Tuning Tutorial, and
be sure your IFR table is correct (is yours stock, what vehicle...?).


Thanks for your time. You're welcome, good luck with it,
:cheers:


http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/609/ben16fu.png


http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/5531/ben29px.png


http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9034/ben39lk.png

[Learning]

Thanks for answering my post, it has helped clear some of my confusion! Please see below for a few more Qs :)


It can take about 20 minutes, but you have to hit a wide range of RPM and throttle combinations.

Is the AutoVE tuning important for WOT VE mapping or mostly part throttle?


See below, this is an example of what I got using black box logging (23 minutes);
it shows that I have to hit the higher MAP and higher RPM areas,
and I could have higher cell counts (I can cheat a little by hiding cells with less than 25 counts, say);
but it lets me dial in the areas where I got > 50 cell counts.

Yours look better than mine ;) What is "black box logging"? Did you just drive around in traffic for 23mins or hit the Hwy and do pulls in different gears?



Look at what cells you did not get (take note of RPM and MAP),
go for another drive paying attention to drive differently (larger throttle gives larger MAP values)'
about 40% of the cells will not be hit on the street, that's okay since you'll never hit them anyway
(also you don't want to abuse your auto trans too much).

My car has a 6spd trans but it is still hard to hit over 6000rpm many times on the street. If the bulk of my cells are in the 1000-5000rpm range will this be good enough?



See the third picture down; yes you might have to do more driving;
you don't want the value from a single count cell because the value may be a fluke;
averaging the values of a multicount cell statistically eliminates fluke values;

So should I always filter out 1 counts before transferring the info to the VE table?



Be sure to follow all the steps in the AutoVE Tuning Tutorial, and
be sure your IFR table is correct (is yours stock, what vehicle...?).

'02 6spd F-body. Is IFR "injector flow rate"? If so I have 37# injectors and have the values ranging from 41.XX to 42.XX down the scale.

Thanks again for your time....maybe I will get this thing licked before the weekend is over :Eyecrazy:

[Doc]

If your tables are "getting worse" as you go are you just "pasting and multiplying" by selecting all... as in following the tutorial to the letter? The method in the tutorial is fine for the first pass or so given that the whole table is richened up to begin with. Once you get that first pass tho you will need to isolate and go up or down in % increments for the corresponding cells. So for example, if say a cell that has a sufficient count of more than 50, says it is .90 then it is telling you that it is 10% rich and that you need to subtract "-10%" that cell. Conversely, if it says 1.07 then the cell is 7% lean and then you need to add "7%" to that cell. Using the pecentage approach is easier than having to do the math to correct 12.78afr to get it to 14.63 which in this case is "1.00"
Thanks for the question, it is making my 3 hour layover in Amsterdam easier to deal with. Glad they have a wireless internet in the airport here.
Oh no battery is dying.

[TAQuickness]

Learning - be patient and follow the tutorial to the letter.

To hide low cell counts, you need to open the map properties (ctrl+enter), and click on the empty tab. there you will be able to specify the number for low cell count filtering.

You also need to use the low cell count and data filters every time. This helps insure the data you are using to tune with is valid.

[joecar]

Is the AutoVE tuning important for WOT VE mapping or mostly part throttle?For street use, PT is 90% of your driving.
To do WOT, find a deserted unpoliced industrial area, and do several 1st gear pulls to 6000+ RPM; you may have to hide cells with less than 10 or 15 counts just for this WOT 'special case'.


What is "black box logging"? Did you just drive around in traffic for 23mins or hit the Hwy and do pulls in different gears? The "black box" inline withg the FlashSan cable is able to be programmed to log without laptop supervision.
Hook up your laptop to FlashScan cable and "black box", connect, and do FlashScan->Program Selected PIDs into FLashScan (or see the button with the squiggle and red down arrow).
On my morning commute, I get on the freeway, and I do several of these:
a. (A4) at 60MPH in 3rd, go WOT to get downshift and let it go till it upshifts, this gives me some high RPM high MAP; you can just wring your M6 in 2nd or 3rd.
b. (A4) in 4th at 50MPH, increase throttle just short of downshifting, this gives me some low RPM high MAP;
c. when I get off the freeway there's a good place to go up thru gears WOT.

In steady PT fwy traffic, I try to pay attention to keep steady throttle, no sudden throttle movements.


My car has a 6spd trans but it is still hard to hit over 6000rpm many times on the street. If the bulk of my cells are in the 1000-5000rpm range will this be good enough?That should be good, you can visually extrapolate the VE table.


So should I always filter out 1 counts before transferring the info to the VE table?I meant "low count cells";
hiding the low count cells allows elimination of values that could be flukes; hiding the low count cells takes care of this for you;
EFILive software gives you all the tools to make the process very easy and convenient.


'02 6spd F-body. Is IFR "injector flow rate"? If so I have 37# injectors and have the values ranging from 41.XX to 42.XX down the scale. If these are not stock, you have to use the famous spreadsheet to recalculate your IFR table
(you need to know: fuel rail pressure, measure it (58 psi), injector rated pressure, injector rated flow):
http://www.allmod.net/hpt/injectors.xls


Thanks again for your time....maybe I will get this thing licked before the weekend is over You're welcome, keep safe.

As TAQuickness said, follow the tutorial to the letter, remember to hide low count cells and to apply the filter, you can't go wrong.

:cheers: