Trouble with COS5 and 60lb injectors

[jet231]

Hi,

I'm currently trying to get my car running on a COS5 system. The operating system is 01290005. It is an ls2 turbo engine with 3.3bar MAP (MAF-less) and using siemens deka 60lb/hr injectors. It also has a cam around the 227/227 at 50, a FAST102 manifold and t/b.

Basically for a base tune, I copied a ve table from another n/a vehicle I did which had a similar cam. I then changed the IFR table to a flat 8.73g/sec. The fuel system is a non-return setup but it is vacuum referenced. With the pumps running and vac hose off, it is 58psi. The MAP sensor scalar is set to 430 and the offset is 10. Everything else in the tune is fairly stock.

Can anybody see a problem with this at all? The car will fire from a crank but stall immediately. It is a transplant, so the VATS is off and there is no BCM.

Thanks

[darcy]

I haven't read of anyone having success using that MAP sensor.

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14223-Anyone-useing-the-3-3-Bar-Delphi-Map-sensor/page3

[joecar]

How can you have a non-return MAP-referenced system, since there is nowhere to bleed off excess pressure...?

for example, when MAP drops, the FPR will now need to bleed off some fuel to drop the rail pressure.

[jet231]

I have two bosch 044's feeding a -8 hose to the fpr. From the fpr I have a -8 hose running to the front splitting into two -6 feeds for the rails. I have a return hose from the reg back to the surge tank and a vacuum line run from the front of the car to the rear (where the reg is located).

[joecar]

Ah, ok, I see... your MAP reference line is very long (it behaves like a delay line, MAP signal arrives at FPR delayed).

[joecar]

This:

I haven't read of anyone having success using that MAP sensor.

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14223-Anyone-useing-the-3-3-Bar-Delphi-Map-sensor/page3

With key-on-engine-off, what kPa does MAP show on scantool (with your scaler set to 430)...?

[jet231]

Yeah it will be a bit delayed but it will be tuned to suit. I think I will try another MAP sensor after reading that thread. Cheers for the help guys. Sounds like the exact problem I'm having.

[jet231]

I bought a 2bar map. Delphi p/n281397776. Same dramas though. Scaler set to 190 and offset 10. 100kpa with key on.
Anyone care to have a look at the tune? Need a fresh set of eyes..

[darcy]

Can you post the tune?
(I can't seem to find it in this thread if you already have)

A log too would be helpful.

[5.7ute]

Siemens 60 data in efilive format here.
According to the transferred data, G/sec should be 9.24 across the board.

[jet231]

Tune file attached. Small log file also attached. I'm starting to think the injectors may be sticking. They have been professionally cleaned about 6-8months ago but might have jammed from sitting for so long. Everything tune wise seems ok.. I don't have a noid light handy but I can't feel the injectors pulsing when I try and crank it.
1671916720

[statesman]

You haven't got enough cranking spark to start a lawnmower. Put something more realistic into {B5909}.

[darcy]

I'd take a look in the following areas:
- Commanded Fuel When Cranking (Fuelling drops off suddenly after only 10 counts (2.5 revolutions) - I suspect this is the fire one or twice, then die culprit)
- Main VE vs Cranking VE (Cranking VE is much higher than running VE)
- Spark Timing When Cranking (quite low as statesman suggests)

Presumably this tune is just to get it to fire and needs a bit more safety built in? A couple of areas to have a look at:
- PE (once you get this running I wouldnt start boosting with on 1.16EQ ratio (12.4AFR)
- Consider using OL Fueling for N/A and PE as BE
- Boost Timing Table (currently not taking any timing out and not dealt with in main spark advance tables)
- Open Loop ETC table not setup yet
- IAT VE Table not setup yet

You could try popping a stock ls1 tune in it - change only the injector data and MAP sensor data and see what happens - it's should at least run in that configuration and will tell you if it's some messed with elsewhere in the tune that's causing the issue.

Also, remove some of the PIDs that aren't required to get the channel count down to 25, that way you can log at 10fps.

[joecar]

I agree, start with a stock tune to get the cranking spark/VE and other tables into the ballpark...

[jet231]

Yeah sorry the b5909 table was just something I was playing with. Tried high and low and forgot to change it back.
Commanded fuel when cranking is untouched from stock.
Main VE and cranking ve was taken from a running car. Cranking VE is actually stock and has never been an issue.
Timing and fuelling tables are fairly rough just to get it running basically.

The whole tune is only a base but I think it should get it running.
I pulled the injectors tonight and I think a few of them are/were stuck closed. I have freed up all but one so far but will put them back on a flow bench on friday.
I'll let you know how it develops. Thanks for the help so far.

[dian]

Siemens 60 data in efilive format here.
According to the transferred data, G/sec should be 9.24 across the board.

thanks for posting that. where does the data come from? its for the 107-961 injectors, right?