2009 Silverado 6 cyl Engine swap to 6.0 e-force SC setup issues

[mowton]

So we have had this project in the shop for a while and just can't seem to get it right. Long story short, customer had his 2009 6cyl swapped out with a 6.0 and worked transmission. Wanted a SC installed which we installed with an e-force kit and utilized a 2007 E38 ECM with and ....4088 OS file. Had tranny issues and eventually installed a TCI controller which works ok at this time. We disabled all the T42 TCM torque management values and all seems good with that portion. Had exhaust restriction issues and installed a new ARH system from LT's to hi flow cats.

The main issue is the truck just won't go to boost levels and maintain proper fueling. Have monitored fuel pressure and it holds the 58 lbs. Can get into some boost levels but at certain point (see logs) the fueling will go from right on to about 10-12% lean to >45% lean :-O. It appears as the the transition from good to 10% lean begins, the Bank1 and Bank2 IPW's begin to diverge. This was proven in the log as well as with a tech 2 via the narrowband infromation. For some reason, Bank 2 leans out.....we have checked and double checked the wiring to the injectors and all seems well. We have even installed a second set of injectors (went from siemans 60's to Fast 52's which came with the kit) to see if that cured it with no luck. For some reason, and I hope we aren't chasing our tails, the PCM thinks that Bank 2 inputs are different than Bank 1? The tune is in Open Loop Maf now, but we have tried Speed density with the same results.

In the attached logs (PE was set to .69 for test purposes, normally it is .75), here are the key time stamps: ..am 4 after... -- 12:14:18.69, ...am 5 hold tranny... -- 12:18:55.227 and ...am 3 after... -- 12:10:24.178 and 12:10:51.627.

Any help in this situation or a place to look would greatly be appreciated at this time. Thanks again and hope a new set of eyes/brains can help us send this project home.


Ed M

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[joecar]

Hi Ed, are there any leaks in the exhaust plumbing which could influence the NBO2's...?

[mowton]

Hi Ed, are there any leaks in the exhaust plumbing which could influence the NBO2's...?

Hi Joe, hope all is well. No leaks unfortunately and we are running in open loop with a WB in a pre-cat bung. We initially surmised it was an exhaust leak and previous investigation of putting the wb in both NB locations proved the Bank 2 leanness. So based on the IPW differences at the start of the issue (progressively worsening) and the fact it gets worse as the load goes up, kind of led us away from that theory. But again we have checked several times.

The issue first showed on the Dyno and we kept throwing fuel at it but just never got right. Over the months, and a new guy in the shop driving the truck, we came up with the scenario's you see oin the attached logs.

The only new evidence looking us dead in the face is the IPW difference and I am wondering what could cause this difference in open loop so we might be able to track down the issue at the origin.

Thanks for the look.....

Ed M

[joecar]

Hi Ed, all is well (as well as it could be), thanks.

Leakdown test...?

[mowton]

Hi Ed, all is well (as well as it could be), thanks.

Leakdown test...?

They looked good. Still looking for what might drive Bank 1 and Bank 2 IPW to be different in open loop at the specific points in the logs. We disconnected the narrowband O2's from the PCM last week and saw the same results. The IPW's are exactly the same up to time it starts going south..........

Ed M

[joecar]

That is really weird, the injector pulsewidths diverge while in OL... the only thing that could make them diverge is the trims, but you're in OL.

[joecar]

Those lean wideband spikes during PE indicate you're misfiring.

[joecar]

Try swapping injectors across banks, and see if it does the same INJBPW's, or if they swap sides (following the injectors).

[mowton]

Try swapping injectors across banks, and see if it does the same INJBPW's, or if they swap sides (following the injectors).

Joe, we did that and the lean condition remained in the same bank. even went as far as changing out the initial injectors that first showed the issue....no change. Still going to go back and recheck the fueling pressure situation today or tomorrow.

Ed M

[mowton]

Those lean wideband spikes during PE indicate you're misfiring.

Interesting, will look into that, I have a tendency to increase the PE ramp rate a lot trying to preclude lean spots....maybe I go too far. Will check that out as well. Always assumed it was caused by the instantaneous change in fueling as it usually took 300-500 ms. to catch up.

Ed M

[mowton]

That is really weird, the injector pulsewidths diverge while in OL... the only thing that could make them diverge is the trims, but you're in OL.

Yeah, someone else suggested a "hanging trim value" left over from the last Closed Loop session but that would actually make matters worse. I thought a re-flash into open loop would clear them, but perhaps not. My understanding is the PCM will increase the commanded PE value by the added percentage of fueling being applied (positive trims) just prior to the transition from Stoich to PE. That would result in the richer bank actually leaning out thus making the lean condition that much worse.

No matter how much you think you know and understand, there is always more questions and unknowns......I guess that's why I love the art of tuning :-)

Ed M

[c.u]

Have you played with the temps for the {C0404}-{C0405}.

[mowton]

Have you played with the temps for the {C0404}-{C0405}.

No, thought disabling c0401 and c0402 would take care of that (didn't think MAF would be an issue) and weren't having p0101/0106 or 0121 codes but will try that this am when I get in.

Thanks,

Ed M

[wait4me]

The truck is just going into limp mode due to airflow values exceeding the preset safety values set on the engine. I have emailed you the files with the fix. When you add a supercharger, you need to allow for more airflow or it will shut the blade, and go into REP . But since you didn't have the abs right, it was just acting in a different way.

I also made a few other changes to fix the other issues you will have next.


Im perplexed as to why you just didn't use the ecm and tcm that was ORIGINALLY on the truck, It would have done everything just fine.....

[wait4me]

Cat light off was also another issue. It was adding 22 deg of timing at that point from the looks of it.. ALSO you are no longer using a FPDM so the injector flow rate is confused. I fixed that as well.

[joecar]

Interesting, will look into that, I have a tendency to increase the PE ramp rate a lot trying to preclude lean spots....maybe I go too far. Will check that out as well. Always assumed it was caused by the instantaneous change in fueling as it usually took 300-500 ms. to catch up.

Ed MHi Ed,

When it misfires, the oxygen is un-burnt and registers on the wideband as a lean spike (regardless of how rich the fuel may be).

[joecar]

....

No matter how much you think you know and understand, there is always more questions and unknowns......I guess that's why I love the art of tuning :-)

Ed M+1 :cheers: always something new to learn.

[mowton]

The truck is just going into limp mode due to airflow values exceeding the preset safety values set on the engine. I have emailed you the files with the fix. When you add a supercharger, you need to allow for more airflow or it will shut the blade, and go into REP . But since you didn't have the abs right, it was just acting in a different way.

I also made a few other changes to fix the other issues you will have next.


Im perplexed as to why you just didn't use the ecm and tcm that was ORIGINALLY on the truck, It would have done everything just fine.....

For starters, the setup being tuned is what was delivered to us as a semi completed project or what we have so fondly named "Franken Truck" :-) Could you please explain the REP theory and where the ABS situation resides? When the lean conditions occur, the truck reverts back to drivability with no issue until you get back into MAP area's greater than 140sh.

We have other versions of the tune which set the MAF/MAP testing to the 512/256 max with no luck. Additionally we turned on the misfire codes/features to try and collect any misfires that may be attributing to this issue.

Don't believe the PE or Open Loop settings will effect this situation, correct?

The setup does not have the FPDM installed so will the desired Rail Pressure increase the flow at normal and low? and what effect would this have on our original IFR curve which led you to flat-line the Boost area? Assumption is the pump is fed direct from the 12vdc and not through the Duty cycle handler.

We thank you and all the others for your time and input.

Ed M

[wait4me]

The fuel injector table you have "the one I changed" goes off of RAIL pressure, I didn't "change the boost area" if the injector, I just moved the values from 60psi down to the 0 psi area so that no matter what the computer thought was the fuel pressure, it would use the right values for your fuel injector.


As for the reduced engine power, That is a known thing. IF you put a super charger on an engine with electronic throttle, and you exceed an airflow amount, it will shut you down.

The Problem is still there I take it after the tune?

If so, remove the mass air meter, and watch your fuel of course, but see if it still does the same thing.

It could be a simple fix of just putting in a 2 bar map sensor and fixing the map scaling.


The abs issues, and your BTM stuff are just because you are using the wrong computer setup and the values are missing on the data bus and or are wrong for the different controller match up.

[mowton]

Just a quick update, we have tried all the above as well as a few other tricks (increased fuel pump to 90 psi, 2008 PCM and OS from a ...4088 to a ..7631) and we are still experiencing the lean events shown in the above logs......very frustrating for sure.

I am away for a week of R&R, hope either you guys figure it out or the time away helps develop a new thought process.

Here is a log from today after we installed the higher capacity pump. Expecting a 30% increase, I cut the MAF before the initial log by 30%......results showed the AFR to be 30+% lean.....agggggggh how could we add fuel pressure, not change the IFR and not have to decrease the MAF???? Ended up putting back almost all of it to get back to +/- 5% error.

Thanks for the looks,

Ed M