Added CPP to LS1b, what tables are affected?

[Jetmech442]

2005 LS1b, LQ9, 228R cam, headers. M6 trans.

I started with a mail order tune which got me running(good not great). The tune was setup to run without a CPP. I want to make sure I update all the correct tables now to reap the benifits. If you guys know of anything else I should be concentrating on, I'm all ears(and eyes, well, mostly just eyes).

I'm aware of TC and TF in Gear and P/N.
Rolling Idle is currently zero'd out...will this ask for "zero" rpm if I depress clutch and TC is active? Maybe just enter 800rpm across the board?

Base Spark in Gear{B5932}
Base Spark P/N{B5933} these are the same...should I change them?


Lastly, and keep in mind I'm new, after I complete RAFPN, do I need to redo now for RAFIG?


Thanks for any responses guys.

[hog]

CPP?

peace
Hog

[Jetmech442]

Sorry, What I mean to say is that I added the Clutch Pedal Position sensor to the ECM(Blue connector, pin 35), hoping to get some better drivability by letting the ecm know that I've clutched in/out.

[Jetmech442]

any other experiences or advice from those who have added a CPP signal to an LS1b..or any ecm?

[Gama6970]

hello Jetmech442, im debating on doing the same thing to mine. did it help? what issues did you have to work out?

[Jetmech442]

Made a world of difference. For my setup, LQ9, 228R cam, Lt headers, LS6 intake, T56 trans....I changed the following table:
B4310-Throttle Cracker P/N: added .50 lbs/min for 2-6 mph.

Wiring in the switch and changing the table eliminated the erratic behavior when I would try to roll to a stop with clutch depressed.

Theres a pic of the wiring in my build thread over on LS1tech...
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1418981-lq9-t56-1969-old-442-conversion-3.html

[Gama6970]

thank you so much. that explains what I'm getting.

[RADustin]

thread hijack- maybe I need a CPP?


I don't have surging- but at the beginning of some of the drives my truck will die when I push the clutch in and throw it in neutral while getting on the brakes(power) all at one time. Seems like this 'shocks' the system and it'll die. I do not have a CPP- I do have the brake system hooked up so my cruise works.

I'm basically wondering, is my problem no CPP, TC or TF?

I have rolling idle set to hang up over 1k. and basically as soon as I drop below my specified mph and the rolling idle decays the truck dies- like it literally has no airflow. MAP slowly and steady rises to ambient. Sometimes if I'm just moving the truck around back and forth it will die when I clutch in and brake at the same time. I'm nearly at a loss. Anyone have ideas?

[bimbleuk]

When I first started tuning my converted car I was using the common 12212156 OS from a US based vehicle. My wiring loom was from a Monaro and didn't have a CPP provision. When I logged the TF/TC PIDs I quickly realised they weren't doing anything and I had some surge/stumbling issues after fitting a cam.

Rather than wire in a CPP I switched back to an Aus based OS 12225074 which cured my issues and the TC/TF tables started to work.

So I'd advise logging your TF/TC tables to if the values are actually working. If the values don't change then you may have to either wire in a CPP or try the 12225074 OS. If the values are changing then they probably just need some tuning to help.

[RADustin]

Interesting.

I need to understand more about TF/TC. When each should do what, and when.

When I log them, they are certainly working( I think). Maybe just set incorrectly? But they also seem to be working erroneously.

When pushing in the clutch, shifting to neutral, and getting on the brakes- which (TF or TC) should function and how? It seems when this problem occurs from my logs, at soon as the clutch is pushed and the truck taken out of gear the MAP starts to rise like the engine is basically dead. By increasing rolling airflow it has helped a bunch- but the truck will learn down to what it actually needs and the problem comes right back.

So I assume I don't have enough TF or TC, or the decays are wrong. I'm looking for a good log file to post- I know I have one but I'm trying to sift through them all. I did attached a picture of a log when the truck dies. You can see TP drop, MAP initially drops(more vacuum) until clutch is pushed, then MAP rises to ambient as engine dies- truck rolling the entire time.

Since this log I have activated rolling hanging idle- but it is merely a band aide. If I deactive it I can't drive the truck as it constantly wants to die. RAFIG has been done and is correct. I believe my issue to be TF/TC/ or CPP problem- and I'm pretty certain it's one of the 3.

18465

[RADustin]

I can't figure out if I have too much air or not enough?

Watching AFR it looks fine. but MAP climbs to ambient with absolute TP not changing- so the engine is dieing but why??

edit- If I had too much air I would have a hanging idle I would think. So it must be not enough. But on that train of thought- it's almost like the ignition is acting funky. So strange to me.

edit edit- I found this on ls1tech- "He adjust the idle follower? To cause the RPMs to hang just alil longer and let it adjust instead of dropping fast and dying out" Sounds like I need to adjust the value for TF and make it decay slower. I will probably fit the CPP thing as well if I can. Do we have a cax for that?

[Gama6970]

Made a world of difference. For my setup, LQ9, 228R cam, Lt headers, LS6 intake, T56 trans....I changed the following table:
B4310-Throttle Cracker P/N: added .50 lbs/min for 2-6 mph.

Wiring in the switch and changing the table eliminated the erratic behavior when I would try to roll to a stop with clutch depressed.

Theres a pic of the wiring in my build thread over on LS1tech...
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1418981-lq9-t56-1969-old-442-conversion-3.html

thanks again. I'm running almost the same configuration except I still got the vortec intake. I'm gonna install the switch and wire for the cpp this weekend. is there any way you can send me your tune so that I may compare it with mine? I'm pulling my hair out. lol

[Jetmech442]

Gama,no prob, I'll post up my tune, just be aware it is currently set up for CALCVET....so I'd probly just compare the tables for TC,Tf and idle saver. Also, for table B3410, I'm thinking about extending it down to zero mph because I get some want-to-die stuff happening when I slowly reverse and I am in and out of the clutch.

RADustin,
In your first post you indicate it dies out when clutch engaged and moving or coming to stop. This is what I had. CPP fixed it, but I also had to add airflow to my TC tables. I added .50 Lbs/min from 2-6mph and all was well(with the exception of what I said above about reversing slowly). I do not have rolling idle activated at all in my tune. I believe that adding CPP allows Stall Saver table (B4522) to become active. You know, re-reading this post, if your truck dies almost immediately upon clutch in "like there's no airflow", the TC will only help until decays out. Check your desired Idle speed table(B4603), and probly Desired Airflow(B4307)-you may need to try bumping up the Lbs/min by .1 or .2 in the ECT range you experience the problem. That to me would seem like a first step and then utilizing CPP.

I took a look at the log pic you posted, it looks like your WB02 and NB02 diverge just past halfway in the log. Not sure why that would happen.
Also, you Fuel Pressure is not steady and is not 58psi. Yours may be different, but my fuel injector tables are setup for 58 psi. and it should stay there regardless of vehicle speed/load/rpm.

[RADustin]

I'm going to play around with TC and TF. My idle speeds and desired airflow is correct on the positive side. I did RAFIG and added a bit.

What you are thinking is NBO2 is commanded AFR. They diverge because the truck stalled.

I feel like if I can get enough TC and let it decay slowly enough it will be fine. The truck idles fine 99% of the time.

Edit- I am in idiot. I forgot I linked the brake switch with clutch switch to fool my cruise control(ETC) to work. I bet this is causing me tons of grief now that I am cammed.

I need to apply this CPP fix to the tune and go from there...

[Jetmech442]

Good luck radustin, and your right if course about the wideband comment I made...I was thinking afr was actual not commanded

Gama,I figured I'd attach the tun here for others to see as well. Good luck guys.

[Gama6970]

thanks buddy.

[RADustin]

got it figured out. When I swapped OS I didn't copy over the TC and TF tables. when I did, everything is good now.

[joecar]

got it figured out. When I swapped OS I didn't copy over the TC and TF tables. when I did, everything is good now.Can you post the before/after tune file, I want to take a closer look at the TC/TF tables...

[RADustin]

Joe, see attached. The answer was in my original stock tune file. the 2001 OS was completely different from my 99 OS.

11 is the file that would die like turning off the truck on the interstate as soon as the clutch was depressed with no throttle input.

32 runs like a champ, except sometimes it will die if I don't go fast enough to enable the cracker and I have the a/c on. I need to wire a/c to run through ecm.

1855918560

[joecar]

Yes, wire AC thru PCM.