E83B ECU Torque Limits

[Tre-Cool]

Hi Guys, what's the chances of there being a hard coded torque limit in the calibration or OS of the e83b?

I've tried adjusting all sorts of parameters and I can not get the car to register any higher than 280~288nm's of torque. I've even gone as far as pulling the tune with hptuners and while they have more options there is nothing that helped improve on my current setup or limitation.

I can provide logs and copy of the current tune, however the fact I can hit this "limit" at 2700rpm and hold flat till redline is why im suspicious of a missing torque limit table somewhere.

I can confirm the current Torque Limit tables,B7015, B7016 - B7018. Do absolutely nothing. As the car doesn't feature an over boost function. However it may still come into play on boost spikes. (I haven't needed to play around with increasing the boost a great deal yet)

I've also had a play with the Fan power tables and got no change what so ever by setting both tables to 100%, or 1 to 100, and vice a versa. So im lost on how that works.

Im thinking it somehow ties in with engine load or duration. as if you give the car stick the engine coolant temps will drop all the way down to 86c and takes a while for it to rise up back to the standard 104~106c operating temps.

I'd also like to convert the car to run a flex sensor soon too, so having the capability to enable the sensor would be handy too.

[kangsta]

post the tune and a log. Do you have a read of the trans?

[Tre-Cool]

the car is a manual, so shouldnt even have any tq mgmt issues.16863

some data from my drive today.16864

the tune is not the current 1, but the car has had the same power limit since day 1.

[GMPX]

Hi Guys, what's the chances of there being a hard coded torque limit in the calibration or OS of the e83b?
It is pretty rare that GM hard code any limits in the controllers, it'll be something else that hasn't been unearthed.
Unfortunately because we cannot disassemble the OS code in that ECM I'm not sure what sort of a solution I can offer you either. Normally we could trace through code to see where the ECM references, but that (as I've already said elsewhere) isn't possible with the E83 ECM, which also makes them an absolute nightmare to map out.


I'd also like to convert the car to run a flex sensor soon too, so having the capability to enable the sensor would be handy too.
Probably never going to be able to give you that option in our software, sorry, again it's because we can't view the code to find the FlexFuel routines (if they even exist in the E83). I'm not trying to insult your car but the E83 is the low end ECM GM use, smallest pin count, least amount of flash, it might not have the ability for E85 even if the tables exist. What I mean by that is the E38 for example has all the supercharger controls like the E67 does because they share a common code set, but in the E38 the routines are bypassed, it never looks at the S/C parameters & tables even though they are actually in the calibrations.

[Tre-Cool]

I loathe to say it, but the flex fuel settings are available in hptuners. :-( - I borrowed the cable from a friend, so don't want to use up any of his licenses, testing it)

It also has a bunch of axle torque settings, which I don't think will make any difference to power restrictions. They seem pretty high as it is.

To be honest the car is actually pretty quick/fun now that the boost comes on nice and early compared to stock, it's now at the limit of where it really needs an lsd in the front end, went through a roundabout on the way home last night after some drizzle and it light up the drivers wheel as I exited.

What's the chances of being able to get some wheel size/speed adjustments like we have in the e38 etc when changing tyre sizes? Im running the standard 18" sriv wheels and the dash is out by 5km's. Probably how they get there low kms/100 figure.

Oh and if really possible, can you explain when it actually runs in high speed air flow mode. the stock settings have it enter at 65 or 6400. I'd like to check/tune the VVE table as it doesn't seem right to me. So would like to fail the maf.

[GMPX]

I loathe to say it, but the flex fuel settings are available in hptuners
They also have the Supercharger settings for the E38 in there (which is why I made that point before). I'm not saying the E83 can't do flex fuel, but it might not have the ability to use a real sensor due to the small pin count on the connectors.


What's the chances of being able to get some wheel size/speed adjustments like we have in the e38 etc when changing tyre sizes?
If I knew where those were they would have already been in there, I know they are important.


Oh and if really possible, can you explain when it actually runs in high speed air flow mode. the stock settings have it enter at 65 or 6400. I'd like to check/tune the VVE table as it doesn't seem right to me. So would like to fail the maf.
Whatever the settings are then that is the 'when' question answered. VVE will be weird as it is a variable cam engine, they always look odd, I would not even go there.

[Tre-Cool]

You might have this motor confused with another but the cams in these are fixed. no variable adjustment to them. would be nice if they were.

When you did your flex fuel conversion on the 1.4l where did you get your injector data from to suit? I've found the stock ones are pretty much all ready maxed out on the factory tune thanks to the commanded afr.
1692516926

[GMPX]

The flow rate on the ones I fitted was exactly double the factory ones, made it really simple. Whoever recommended them to me had a flow table done already anyway.
I had no idea there was no variable cams on the 1.6L engines, I'm really surprised about that.

[Tre-Cool]

Yeah I thought it was strange too, as according to the wiki on the A16let motor they have double continuous cam phasing. However there appears to be no adjusting them even in HPT. They have the tables but they are all blank.

With any luck they have used the same injectors on the 1.6 as the 1.4. But I might try a set of L98 injectors with some adapters first.

[kangsta]

did you sort the torque limit out?

[Tre-Cool]

not yet, im still topping out at 288nm though. I will have a play with a hpt cable soon to see if there is something im missing, but considering im already maxing out the stock injectors there may not be much more in it until I upgrade them.

It definitely needs a decat pipe off the turbo, I got that glowing red hot the other day.

[kangsta]

the file you posted still has limiters around 288Nm... FYI

[Tre-Cool]

1693316934

This is the current tune. I used this tonight at the drags and dropped over .5 second and gained near on 3mph.

Log is from the drive home.

send me your email and i will send u the hpt version of the stock file.

commanded power tables dont make much of a difference power wise, but it does help along with max airflow and timing mostly.

[Tre-Cool]

I have also had a play with the fan settings again in the posted tune and they do run more now, but weirdly enough the temperature doesn't change as much as you think it would. Which is strange considering the stock calibration seems to allow the coolant temp to drop down to 86c after some wot shifts.

Kind of like a engine cool down option based on say requested torque over time. That's the best explanation I can give for it.

[Tre-Cool]

So I realise not many people are probably looking at this thread as it relates to "economy" cars. haha but worked out why what was holding the car back from making any decent power... and it can be fixed by turning one factory setting off.

Unfortunatly, Efilive doesn't have it in the calz yet but I'm sure they will have it soon. hpt have it listed under the torque management area and call it "torque shaping". What this does is put what feels like a 3-5 second delay between when the motor is told to accelerate/increase hp to when it actually does. I can't report how well this translates to the automatics but for the manual cars it's makes a huge difference.

Similar for when the first e38 cars came out and have the delay between pedal movement and etc movement. Turning this one feature off instantly removes the delay & possibly any torque limitations.

How do I know, what better way than to show it.
http://www.torqueup.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Cruze-Ethanol.jpg

While not exactly a back to back comparison, considering the fuel/boost changes. but I haven't touched the timing map from the 98 tune.

While making more power is 1 thing, Drivability is beyond good. It's how the factory should of made it as it was borderline dangerous, the best example I can give is say your coming to a roundabout and see a clear gap that will get you driving straight though, but you've slowed down to a rolling pace of 5-10kph in 2nd gear.
you push the pedal down, oh what's that. the car's not accelerating and you've just rolled out on to the road and now a car's coming. Shit's about to get real!!
my solution was to clutch dump the pos to get the rev's up because the stupid ecu is commanding -10 degrees timing. (clutching in, instantly switched it to a different map/setting)

now, I can roll along in 3rd gear and have instant acceleration.

That's the kind of difference that 1 setting makes!

[kangsta]

good feedback, thanks!

[HOWQUICK]

So I realise not many people are probably looking at this thread as it relates to "economy" cars. haha but worked out why what was holding the car back from making any decent power... and it can be fixed by turning one factory setting off.

Unfortunatly, Efilive doesn't have it in the calz yet but I'm sure they will have it soon. hpt have it listed under the torque management area and call it "torque shaping". What this does is put what feels like a 3-5 second delay between when the motor is told to accelerate/increase hp to when it actually does. I can't report how well this translates to the automatics but for the manual cars it's makes a huge difference.

Similar for when the first e38 cars came out and have the delay between pedal movement and etc movement. Turning this one feature off instantly removes the delay & possibly any torque limitations.

How do I know, what better way than to show it.
http://www.torqueup.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Cruze-Ethanol.jpg

While not exactly a back to back comparison, considering the fuel/boost changes. but I haven't touched the timing map from the 98 tune.

While making more power is 1 thing, Drivability is beyond good. It's how the factory should of made it as it was borderline dangerous, the best example I can give is say your coming to a roundabout and see a clear gap that will get you driving straight though, but you've slowed down to a rolling pace of 5-10kph in 2nd gear.
you push the pedal down, oh what's that. the car's not accelerating and you've just rolled out on to the road and now a car's coming. Shit's about to get real!!
my solution was to clutch dump the pos to get the rev's up because the stupid ecu is commanding -10 degrees timing. (clutching in, instantly switched it to a different map/setting)

now, I can roll along in 3rd gear and have instant acceleration.

That's the kind of difference that 1 setting makes!

gee Dave. After all the mechanical changes, fuels blah blah...you have as much power as the oilers at 3800rpm...

http://www.efilive.com/latest/cat/newsletter/post/e20-gm-small-diesel-pre-release-software/

easy to see the value pack of the Cruize range...whilst the spark engine is looking for rpm...the diesel is gone!

[Tre-Cool]

I took a good look at the diesel option before I purchased this car, however the down fall is you can't get one in the hatchback and im not a fan of the sedan rear end.

So a petrol turbo hatchback was the logical choice. there is plenty of value in both, the downside for the petrol models is who ever calibrated the tune in them was purely looking for fuel economy as they keep them running stoich at 12psi up to 4k rpm.

[GMPX]

Actually the guy at Holden that made these two decisions needs a new job:

1 - Sat Nav only on SRi models
2 - No Diesel option on SRi models.

But I want a Diesel with a Sat Nav........go buy a $20K Hyundai and you can have all that :bash:

[Tre-Cool]

Actually the guy at Holden that made these two decisions needs a new job:

1 - Sat Nav only on SRi models
2 - No Diesel option on SRi models.

But I want a Diesel with a Sat Nav........go buy a $20K Hyundai and you can have all that :bash:

That is exactly what I wanted! an SRI-V Diesel. but noooo.. can only get it in a cdx with the ugly sedan ass-end.

My best mate has an old i30 diesel and the new santa-fe for his mrs, interior on the santa fe is very nice. Something like that in a small car/hatch back would be great.

Downside... they run a bosch edc17 controller.

[HOWQUICK]

That is exactly what I wanted! an SRI-V Diesel. but noooo.. can only get it in a cdx with the ugly sedan ass-end.

My best mate has an old i30 diesel and the new santa-fe for his mrs, interior on the santa fe is very nice. Something like that in a small car/hatch back would be great.

Downside... they run a bosch edc17 controller.

far out Dave...the rear isn't that bad! Hatch looks like vomit in my Mrs book and lets face it, they are for the girls.:mrgreen:

Bosch controller should be no trouble for a man of your talent:sneaky: