2014 Chev Silverado 5.3 Auto To Manual

[Sid447]

Is it now possible,

For the current ECM/TCM controlled cars/trucks to be converted to manual transmission without any problems?

If so is there a guide on here on how to go about it?

[Taz]

Hi Sid,

What have you got on the go ? Is this an engine swap in a custom vehicle, or a transmission swap in an OEM vehicle ?

Can the E92 tune be changed from an auto to a manual - Yes - in the same fashion E38 / E67 tunes can be changed.

Can it be done without any problems - life rarely works out that way ! The idle portion of the tune may need some work, and sometimes the speedometer output signal can be problematic.

If this is a custom vehicle, the easiest route may be to use a Corvette tune from a manual transmission car. However, the 5.3L and 6.2L Gen V engines use different throttlebodies. I don't know if a 5.3L throttlebody would work "without any problems" with a 6.2L tune.


Cheers,
Taz

[Sid447]

Hi Taz,

long time!

A company here in the UAE has bought around eighty 2014 Silverados and wants them converted to manual.

A friend of mine owns a workshop which this company has made inquiries to .

I'm just trying to find out for this guy if it's a poossible or no, as I am out of touch with the latest goings-on and had heard it wasn't possible to convert because of the dis-conneted TCM harness causing problems (?)

[Taz]

...A company here in the UAE has bought around eighty 2014 Silverados and wants them converted to manual ...

Wow !!! There is too much money in that part of the world (LOL).



... had heard it wasn't possible to convert because of the dis-connected TCM harness causing problems (?) ...

Bridging the CANBus lines will "close the loop" on comms - if the wiring harness is not going to be completely reworked. A manual style VSS will need to be connected to the ECM.

These are barely off the showroom floor here, and I have no idea what complications will arise in an OEM 2014 Silverado with this type of conversion.

Your friend will need to get one of these trucks as a test mule, to sort this out. It may end up being reasonably straight forward, or it may bring about one problem after another.

GM has yet to release the 2014 Corvette / Truck Service Manuals to Helm Inc. (for public purchase), so I can't comment on how the subsystems work.

[Sid447]

Okay,

Thanks for the reply,

He has one of them at his workshop for this purpose................

I could offer to put you in touch with the Aussie if you are interested. Then I could loan him my V2 to do the necessary.

Let me know what you think.

Steve.

[Taz]

PM sent ...

[GMPX]

Quite often if such a conversion is done in a late model vehicle that never had a manual trans option there is always issues (many of which Taz listed)
Firstly, other modules on the CAN bus might be expecting to hear messages from the TCM and may set 'U' codes with the TCM missing (eg, the instrument cluster for the PRNDL display).
The start enable is usually different on the Manual, you need a clutch position sensor so the ECM knows when the clutch is in or out for cranking (also important for idle).
Whilst the clutch position switch can be bypassed in the tune I would say don't expect it all to work 'as good as new' as though GM made it.
Is there really no manual trans option at all in the 14 Silverado?

Cheers,
Ross

[Taz]

Not certain with respect to the global market ... Canadian Silverado / Sierra 1500 series models (with Gen V engines) are only offered with the A6 (6L80) - whether the engine is the 4.3L V6 or the 6.2L V8.

The downside is that there does not appear to be a manual transmission calibration available. The upside is a future increased supply of quality used 4x2 6L80 transmissions - once the wrecking yards start receiving them.

[DURAtotheMAX]

In the USA/Canada, GM stopped offering manual transmissions in all Silverados starting in 2007.5 with the GMT-900.

However, in Mexico (and maybe some other markets?), you could get a manual transmission up through 2013 in the GMT-900's.

I just checked the service manual for the 2014+ K2XX silverados, and in the "transmission" section, it gives service manual info/wiring diagrams for both the obvious 6L80, and a Tremec 5-speed (RPO code is MXW)....so it seems as if you can still get a manual transmission in the new 2014 K2XX silverados.

If someone could find a VIN for one of those mexican silverados with the manual transmission, it would be easy enough to flash an E92 with a proper manual-trans calibration, then pull it out with EFILive.

Although my suspicion is that even in the Mexico markets, that manual will only be offered with the 4.3 V6. As far as I know, the mexican market 2007-2013 GMT-900 silverados with the manual trans were V6 only.

So that wouldnt really help, if the only factory combo for the E92 silverado manual transmission was a V6.

Ben17110

[Taz]

If by "K2XX" you are referring to 2500 series 4x4 models - I believe those are still using the E78 ECM in the Canadian and USA markets. Mexico ... well just about anything could happen there !!!

[DURAtotheMAX]

If by "K2XX" you are referring to 2500 series 4x4 models - I believe those are still using the E78 ECM in the Canadian and USA markets. Mexico ... well just about anything could happen there !!!

K2XX is just the generic name for the 2014/2015+ GM full size truck/SUV platform. The "XX" can be various different letters to denote which specific vehicle within the platform.

Sort of like "GMT-900" "GMT-800", etc. And then there are more specifics, like GMT-931 is an Avalanche, etc.

2014+ Chevrolet Silverado Crew Cab (K2CC)
2014+ GMC Sierra Crew Cab (K2CG)
2014+ Chevrolet Silverado Extended Cab (K2EC)
2014+ GMC Sierra Extended Cab (K2EG)
2014+ Chevrolet Silverado Regular Cab (K2RC)
2014+ GMC Sierra Regular Cab (K2RG)
2014+ Chevrolet Tahoe (K2UC)
2014+ GMC Yukon (K2UG)
2014+ Chevrolet Suburban (K2YC)
2014+ GMC Yukon XL (K2YG)
2014+ Cadillac Escalade (K2XL)

[400ss]

I live in mexico, and i have a friend that owns a GM dealer here, let me ask him, what exactly do you need? i do a lot of engine/ drivetrains swaps here, so i can use this info too

[DURAtotheMAX]

I live in mexico, and i have a friend that owns a GM dealer here, let me ask him, what exactly do you need? i do a lot of engine/ drivetrains swaps here, so i can use this info too

Could you please see if he has any 2007-2013 silverados, and 2014+ silverados with manual transmissions? I would just need the VIN. Do you have EFILive? You could just read the tune directly (if you can convince him to let you plug in, haha), or if you can only get the VIN, im sure someone with a Tech 2 and TIS2WEB would be able to flash the tune into a spare ECM, then read it out with EFILive so that it can be shared as needed.

I dont know how things like used car lots work down there...but even if you see a manual-trans silverado there, you could just peek through the windshield and snap a picture of the VIN...you wouldnt even need access to the truck.

That would be awesome!! Thanks!

[400ss]

Could you please see if he has any 2007-2013 silverados, and 2014+ silverados with manual transmissions? I would just need the VIN. Do you have EFILive? You could just read the tune directly (if you can convince him to let you plug in, haha), or if you can only get the VIN, im sure someone with a Tech 2 and TIS2WEB would be able to flash the tune into a spare ECM, then read it out with EFILive so that it can be shared as needed.

I dont know how things like used car lots work down there...but even if you see a manual-trans silverado there, you could just peek through the windshield and snap a picture of the VIN...you wouldnt even need access to the truck.

That would be awesome!! Thanks!

Sorry i didnt explain myself, there are just brand new cars, not used car lot,,, if they have one with manual i can read it, no problem, i do own efilive

[85258]

Hey Guys, I gotta bring this back from the dead!
I have swapped an LC9 5.3 from a 2010 Silverado into my 2010 Jeep Wrangler. We deleted the DoD but still have VVT. I am using an NSG370 6 speed manual trans from a 2007 Jeep TJ. We have it running with the E38 ECM, but without out the Body Control Module and that has created many issues.

What I am hoping is that 400ss could please do me a huge favor and find a VIN for a manual trans V8 in Mexico and post it here. I will see if I can figure out how to send private message to him as well. thanks!!!!

[Taz]

... has created many issues ...

What are the specific issues ?

[85258]

We have been working on this for months. I have a shop doing the tuning. Long story short:
cannot get the e38 ECM to take a VSS wiithout the BCM. Without a VSS the ECM defaults to 158mph. low speed drivability is poor as the rpm hangs momentarily when throttle is released. This is due to no VSS. Need BCM for cruise. Power drain from ECM as we do not have a BCM which shuts down the ECM. It has been suggested to me With "out a manual tune for the BCM and ECM
two solutions we have come up with. 1 get a VIN for a Mexico market e38 ECM manual Trans v8 Silverado or 2 used a camaro tune. Testing by the shop doing my tuning has struggled with getting my the BCM to work with the camaro tune.

Thanks

[Taz]

Sounds like you are fighting battles on several fronts at the same time.

Power drain from E38 - that is a wiring issue. E38 only needs a trickle of voltage to maintain its memory when the vehicle is not in use. Wiring a relay (similar to the original Powertrain Control Relay) that controls ignition voltage to the E38 (and sensors) should cure the power drain issue.

Cruise Control - Yes, a BCM is required (with an E38). Rostra sells a Cruise Control system that installs in-line with the APP (gas pedal). Not the best design (in my opinion), but it is an option (would eliminate the need for a BCM).

VSS - have you wired this like a manual trans E38 (J1 pin 71 and 72) ?

If so, I might be able to patch the VSS portion of the tune for you. Post the tune if you want - will take a look.

[JohnPShoe]

Good morning to all. I am helping 85258 with his LS conversion.

Here's what we have:

1. We are working on a 2010 LC9 with a manual transmission behind it.
2. We are trying to have all power down functions active, so no key off battery draw is present. 85258's original conversion company did not address this issue. In our conversions, we use a BCM module to allow this to function as designed. 85258 will be installing one in his vehicle to allow this to work as designed.
3. We would like to have factory cruise. Once again, we are installing a BCM to allow this to function as designed.
4. We need a valid VSS to let the E38 know when it is moving. We should have this worked out on the Jeep side.

Here's what we have tried:

1. We have tried chasing the elusive Mexico made 2010 -up Silverado with a manual transmission. So far the only thing I have been able to find has been the V6, not the V8. Easy fix would be to find an original GM OS for a 2010-up v8 with manual, unless there is an easy way to convert a v6 OS to function properly with a V8.
2. Our typical set up is based on the Silverado OS, but no manuals were available. We are attempting to make the Camaro OS work with our setup, but the variables are different.

Taz:

1. Is there an easy way to convert the Silverado OS with a 6L80e to a manual? I am concerned it will always look for the TCM to be broadcasting on the CAN and throw codes when not present. It would be wonderful to be able to turn it off.
2. We will be trying to pull the VSS from the Jeep ABS and feed it to the E38. 85258's transmission does not have a VSS or an easy way to introduce one. Please elaborate on your comment about J1 pin 71 and 72. 71 and 72 should be the VSS hi and lo?

[Taz]

E38 power
- J1 pin 20 battery voltage (always powered)
- J1 pin 18 ignition voltage (powered when key is "ON") - I don't use a BCM, but you could try having the BCM power this circuit
- J1 pin 19 ignition voltage (powered when key is "ON")
- J1 pin 59 - used to ground the Powertrain Control Relay (i.e. relay activation)
- J1 pin 47 ignition voltage, from the Powertrain Control Relay (i.e. after activated by J1 pin 59)
- activation of the Powertrain Control Relay then powered all sensors

VSS - manual transmission
- J1 pin 71 (VSS High)
- J1 pin 72 (VSS Low)
- the Jeep ABS input you are trying to use - how many pulses per revolution ?

Cruise - using a BCM
- will need a brake switch wired to BCM and ECM
- may or may not need a CPP (Clutch Pedal Position) Sensor signal
- will need ladder resistor switches

Mexican trucks
- have never seen a Gen 4 (2008+) engine mated with a manual transmission (only V6 - which use an E37 ECM)

Tune
- I may be able to patch your Truck tune for use with a manual transmission
- do you need the ECM to control the Reverse Lockout Solenoid (not sure if your transmission has one) ?

[JohnPShoe]

E38
I think we are good on the power sequencing.

VSS
The Jeep uses a 52 tooth tone ring.

Cruise
We currently support factoy GM cruise with the BCM package with the MoTech kit. 85258's was not originally a MoTech kit. We utilize both brake inputs to the BCM. My thought was to use the Jeep CPP and feed it to the E38. That will shut cruise down when applied. Why would we need ladder switches?

Mexican Trucks
Thanks for the info. I was not aware they were E37.

Tune
That would be great. I can send you a file. I will have to verify, but my research indicates there was not a reverse lock out on that trans.

[Taz]

VSS
The Jeep uses a 52 tooth tone ring.

That might be a problem. E38 / E67 automatic based calibrations like this in the 40 range. I believe the parameter maximum is 50 teeth - have never tried setting it at the maximum - may or may not work correctly.



Cruise
We currently support factoy GM cruise with the BCM package with the MoTech kit. 85258's was not originally a MoTech kit. We utilize both brake inputs to the BCM. My thought was to use the Jeep CPP and feed it to the E38. That will shut cruise down when applied. Why would we need ladder switches?

Jeep CPP may or may not be compatible with the E38 - trial and error will tell.

If you were going to use an OEM BCM, then the Cruise Control input is voltage from ladder resistor type switches.

[JohnPShoe]

That might be a problem. E38 / E67 automatic based calibrations like this in the 40 range. I believe the parameter maximum is 50 teeth - have never tried setting it at the maximum - may or may not work correctly.

My thoughts were to use a Dakota Digital piece to adjust. Thoughts?



Jeep CPP may or may not be compatible with the E38 - trial and error will tell.

If you were going to use an OEM BCM, then the Cruise Control input is voltage from ladder resistor type switches.

I agree on the CPP.
Sorry, senior moment on the ladder switches. We have the cruise working.

[Taz]

I do Hot Rods and custom vehicles - never a Jeep product yet. I took a look at the MoTech website (where you purchased the BCM based Cruise Control system). It looks like they have the Jeep LSx conversion completely sorted out, and sell products for do-it-yourself projects (like the Cruise Control you purchased). Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel as it were, it might be easiest to purchase a reprogrammed E38 from MoTech.

[JohnPShoe]

I am a MoTech installer, dustributor, and service provider. You are correct, Robbie has it figured out. 85258's issues stem from the NSG370 transmission. The MoTech kit does not support manual swaps. All of ours are 6L80e based. We use a standard GM Silverado OS. 85258 went with a manual and I am helping him sort it out. Can you take a 6L80e based OS and make it work with a manual?

[JohnPShoe]

Taz,
I cannot pm, I think I remember Joecar telling me it is because I have not met the minimum post number. Can you email me at [email protected]?

[Taz]

I am a MoTech installer, dustributor, and service provider. You are correct, Robbie has it figured out. 85258's issues stem from the NSG370 transmission. The MoTech kit does not support manual swaps. All of ours are 6L80e based. We use a standard GM Silverado OS. 85258 went with a manual and I am helping him sort it out. Can you take a 6L80e based OS and make it work with a manual?

I was beginning to suspect that you were affiliated with MoTech. That is something you really should have disclosed at the outset.

I don't mind helping out enthusiasts when I can, but I don't do unpaid R&D for other businesses.

[Taz]

Taz,
I cannot pm, I think I remember Joecar telling me it is because I have not met the minimum post number. Can you email me at [email protected]?

You need 10 posts for your PM account to activate. You only need one more post.

Once your PM account is active, feel free to send me a PM to discuss where we go from here.

[JohnPShoe]

Thanks for the post info. This can serve as my #10! I will contact you.

[85258]

Taz,

A bit more background. We started this swap in summer 2014. I bought a kit for my LS Wrangler swap from Novak. I had a friend that has a small engine building shop (builds mostly Vintage street and race engines) do the swap for me. The Novak kit was a huge disappointment with incomplete wiring diagrams, incorrectly pin harnesses, etc. The set up used an emulator for the tach (slow to respond and would crash while driving). We did have the Jeep running, but there were lots of issues. Hanging throttle, no cruise, no AC, tach would go dead while driving, etc.
Novak supplied a Digital Dakota GPS speed sensor, which was connected to pin 71/72 and a Rostra cruise for drive by wire pedal. We were not able to get a VSS from the GPS senors to read into the LS ECM. Lots of trouble shooting. Rostra said that their system would not work in this set up.

Robbie from Motec and John from Overland saw my posts for help on the JKowners forum and offered to help me get this swap sorted out. They have been great, offered lots of knowledge and potential solutions, but not able to solve all the issues. I spoke to John today and he is more than happy to step away and send the ECM to you and you and I can work directly together. I can't PM, but you can email me 884487 at gmail dot com. Thanks

[Taz]

I was originally operating under the belief that you had undertaken this project yourself. I have come to realize that two commercial businesses are involved (or have been involved) - neither of which has done the R&D for a manual transmission conversion.

There is no significant benefit to me in assisting with this project - and there is the possibility that my assistance could amount to free R&D for another company.

Unfortunately, it would be foolish for me to be involved any further.

[85258]

Taz,
Thanks for your response. If you look at my second post (post 17 in this thread), I was clear I had a shop trying to figure out the tuning for me. Novak left me high and dry 6 months ago and refunded money for the tuning and parts that dont work. Motec/Overland are good guys but dont have a solution, nor do I think that they really want or need one as there is very little demand for engine swaps with manual trans in Jeeps. I think they are just trying to help an enthusiast out and are very happy to just pass me on and get nothing from me.

I appreciate that you don't want your proprietary knowledge shared. If you and I dealt direct, that info would stay in my ECU. But if you don't have a comfort level with that I guess that just leaves me stuck with no solution. :(

[85258]

This is so frustrating as my Jeep has pretty much sat for 18 months... To have a solution this close at hand but be denied as I have previously worked with other shop that could not solve it... argggg.

[Taz]

It seems that you embarked on a conversion project that is not fully supported by either MoTech or Novak. Given that you have an E38 in place, and a corresponding wiring harness - then one do-it-yourself option comes to mind. Use a manual transmission Corvette calibration in the E38. This means purchasing another E38 (or getting yours reflashed with a Tech 2 or equivalent device), and switching to a Corvette throttle body and APP (gas pedal).

The APP connector would need to be repinned, if you choose to try this option.

[85258]

Thanks for the info Taz.

[400ss]

[QUOTE=85258;226285]Thanks for the info Taz.[/QUOTE
what is exactly the problem youre having and what do you want expect from this swap, will see if i can help

[85258]

I have a manual transmission with an e38 ECM. I want to have a BCM for a VSS and to run cruise control.

I think we have other issues figured out.