calculated pid not valid for NGK/NTK Air-Fuel Ratio Monitor

[Trackman]

Can anyone see where the error might be? Or suggest to me what I am doing incorrectly to cause this message?

[darcy]

That cal_pids file is empty.

[Trackman]

Oops.

This may be more helpful.

[joecar]

You forgot the closing double-quote at the end of CLC-00-003.

[Trackman]

Thank you. That got it working. Unfortunately my formula must be wrong. My afr is reading 4 points to low. NTK suggest {(vout-0.5)x2.75}+9

I have:
*CLC-00-003
AFR 9.0 20.00 .1 "{EXT.AD1}-0.5*2.75+9"

[joecar]

What fuel are you running...?

[Trackman]

Vp c14

[joecar]

C14 contains lead which may foul your wideband sensor, but IDK if this is significant... do you see any signs of this...?

C14 has stoich AFR about the same as pump gasoline.

Test your wideband sensor:
what voltage do you see when sensor is in free air (should go all the way lean)...?
what voltage do you see when you cover the sensor with a rag dampened with brake cleaner (should go all the way rich until the brake cleaner finishes evaporating)...?

[Trackman]

Sensor reads 14s at an idle on the NTK monitor that the sensor came with. Sensor is new. Yes the sensor goes to 20 in free air.
I know lead is not good for them but they last a while to dial in the tune.
I am fairly confident my problem is with my formula.

[Trackman]

Still hoping someone would be willing to help me out with the proper calculations to make wideband read correctly.
I'll keep reading.

[joecar]

Thank you. That got it working. Unfortunately my formula must be wrong. My afr is reading 4 points to low. NTK suggest {(vout-0.5)x2.75}+9

I have:
*CLC-00-003
AFR 9.0 20.00 .1 "{EXT.AD1}-0.5*2.75+9"When I looked more closely at your formula (and compared it to the NTK user manual pdf) I see it is incorrect...

it should have parenthesis around the subtraction term, like this:

"({EXT.AD1}-0.5)*2.75+9"

[Trackman]

Thank you joecar.
The formula works great.
For anyone using the new NTK air /fuel monitor (model 96604) the above formula is what you need!

[Trackman]

It's been a while! I am looking for a little trouble shooting help again. I am running a new engine set up now and its been a long time since I have datalogged. I have forgotten most of what I had learned. The issue I am having is getting my afr monitor to read correctly on a log. It used to work perfect. Is there a specific 0-5v input I should be using? I notice my pid (the wideband described in this thread) is under the system Fuel. Should it be under the system WO2-Analog?

[joecar]

The system it is under is a user definable string.

Post your calc_pids.txt file from the folder C:\users\xxxx\documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration.

[Trackman]

Here it is.

[joecar]

Ok, it is missing some stuff...

I added in what I thought was missing, see attached (assumes E67 ECM).

Which ECM does you have...?


Edit: correction; and corrected again.

[Trackman]

I have the E67

[joecar]

Ok, the pids CALC.NTK_AFX and CALC.BEN_NTK_AFX should work for E67.

[Trackman]

I replaced pid txt with your version. I get this when I try to add the pid now. I assume I need to delete the bottom 2 somehow.

[joecar]

I replaced pid txt with your version. I get this when I try to add the pid now. I assume I need to delete the bottom 2 somehow.Did you select the pid EXT.AD1...?

Did you select the pid CALC.NTK_AFX...?


This is what I see:

19559

[joecar]

Post a screenshot of the PIDs tab (showing the pid CALC.NTK_AFX)...

[Trackman]

Did you select the pid EXT.AD1...?

Did you select the pid CALC.NTK_AFX...?


This is what I see:

19559

Yes I did.

Just as I was going to screen shot my pids I double checked to see the pid parameters and now its valid!
I hope to test it later today.19568

[Trackman]

I tried it tonight and and stays on 11.1. I'm going to get a meter and double check voltage output of the afr monitor to confirm it's working.

[joecar]

I tried it tonight and and stays on 11.1. I'm going to get a meter and double check voltage output of the afr monitor to confirm it's working.On your charts, you will have to re-choose the correct pid into the chart...

the correct pids now are CALC.NTK_AFX.LAM, CALC.NTK_AFX.EQR, CALC.NTK_AFX.AFR.

[Trackman]

I have confirmed aux output voltage from the afr monitor is working correctly. It reads 4.5v in free air and with the car running it was fluctuating between 1.8v-2.2v on my meter with an afr in the high 12s- low 13s.
When I connect to the V2 I still don't get any correct data when any one of the CALC.NTK_AFX.LAM, CALC.NTK_AFX.EQR, CALC.NTK_AFX.AFR. That pid just freezes up on a log.1957519574
I'm wondering if it will be easier to start over with a new calc. pid. I don't use and other analog inputs anyway.

[joecar]

Post your log file and your calc_pids.txt file.

[joecar]

Which V7 build version are you using (go Help->About)...?

[Trackman]

19576
I am using the calc pids file you posted.
Build 28219577

[joecar]

Sorry, my apologies...

I posted a bad calc_pids.txt in post #16 above (was missing closing quotes and duplicated CLC-00-003)...
I have now corrected the calc_pids.txt and re-posted to post #16 above and here also.


Note: please log SAE.LAMBDA and post the log file, I want to see what it does.


Also, I think you should upgrade your V7 software to latest build (and if you have FSV2 then update V8 also, and FSV2 firmware also).

[Trackman]

I an grateful for you time. Thanks for helping.

No change. The pid is froze
I checked for updates and firmware updates and it says I have the latest.
Sorry I can't seem to find the SAE.LAMBDA

[darcy]

What is the EXT.AD1 pid doing, Trackman?
That will tell you if the V2 is reading the input and it's just a calc.pid thing.

[Trackman]

I don't know the answer to that. I assumed if it was on it was doing it's job.

[joecar]

The scantool is freezing...? Are you able to post a screenshot...? Do you remember if the scantool was from a V7 build from this year...?

[Trackman]

The scantool is not freezing.The afr pid is just stuck on a random number.
I believe the V7 build is from last fall. V7.5.7 build 282

I just don't understand what has changed from the summer of 2014 when the pid worked perfectly to now.

[joecar]

You need the latest software (EXT.ADx pids got broken and have been since fixed).

[joecar]

Do you have a V2 or a V1...?

[Trackman]

I updated to the March 2016 public pre release.
I have a V2.
I look forward to testing.

[Trackman]

It seems to be working correctly now.
I am guessing the update was all that was needed .
Thanks again Joecar.

[Trackman]

I was comparing my older cal pid vs the new version. I noticed the low and high of currently used pid are slightly different. Would this have any affect on my afr readings on my V2? The monitor does read from 9(0.5v)-20(4.5v) which is the low and high settings of the older pid version.

[joecar]

Low, High, Fmt:

these are used to set the minimum tick mark, the maximum tick mark, and the number of digits after the decimal point when you add that pid to a chart or a gauge...

i.e. they effect how the guage/chart looks, they do not effect the value range of the pid.