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D75
September 19th, 2014, 12:44 AM
Ok, we're past what my other thread was looking for.

Are there any GM techs or engineers on here willing to provide technical assistance to me and my tuner?

I finally after 4 years finished my car, got it running with a mail order tune, then dropped it off at a known dyno tuning shop for what was supposed to be a one day, easy tune. It has been there over a week now and the tuner/owner of the shop is still chasing issues.

Short version: 2008 LH8 5.3 with LS2 intake/fuel rails, custom ground comp cams 224/224 .563 lift 112 LSA cam, donor truck (2008) dbw throttle body, C6 dbw pedal, TKO 600 5 speed, custom harness, and brand new E-38 ECU 12612384.

Mail order tune used a 2007 Silverado 1500 baseline. Car started and ran, but had multiple random misfires, too rich bank 1 and 2, mass air volume fault, and etc. I replaced all injectors with stock bosch injectors and I replaced the MAF and MAP sensors just to be sure they weren't the cause. The donor LS2 injectors were stuck on initial start, but we freed them up after tapping on them.

Took it to the shop and dialed all that stuff in, no more codes except for the CASE relearn code. Car was stuck at 4000 rpm. Tried completing the case relearn using Tech 2 and by applying the appropriate ground and voltage inputs for the brake and neutral safety switch. The car accelerated past 4000 rpm and actually made 362 rear wheel HP on a dynatech dyno. Shut the car off and restarted it. Again, the CASE relearn came back and limited the car to 4000 rpm. Tuner tried to satisfy every possible input the ECM was asking for but the CASE relearn procedure continues to fail to complete.

Thought maybe the baseline didn't match the service number for this ECM, so tried a 2008 6 speed Corvette full reflash. Now the car will not start. Tried to delete VATS and etc, but still will not start. Throttle body does register and cycle properly, the MAF sensor and MAP sensors read appropriately, but no spark. I do not have a starter relay going to the ECU as I am running that separately. Thinking that the starter circut needs a resistor to fool the ECM. Did not have that problem with the truck operating system, but the CASE relearn procedure still had issues.

The tuner is now searching for more info, but has not been successful. He isn't new to this and uses EFILive, GM SPS, Tech 2, Motegi, etc, etc.

At this point, it would be a huge help if he could speak over the phone with a GM tech to help weed through all of the myths and misinformation out there on the web, choose the best starting point OS for this application, and figure out what inputs and pins need to be modified to give the ECU what it needs.

ScarabEpic22
September 19th, 2014, 07:42 AM
Id be concerned mixing and matching a truck throttle body with a Vette pedal and Truck OS. They all need to match or very good chance you're going to have issues.

If you flashed an incompatible bootblock/OS to the ECM, it's bricked. EFILive has a handy document that outlines what OSs can be flashed over what existing OS, if you break this then there is an extremely good chance it will brick.

As far as what OS is a good baseline OS, I would use a manual car (Vette) OS as you have a manual trans. Going to have to adjust the fueling and spark to match the smaller displacement, Id start with the copying the baseline values from the mail order tune to the Vette OS and go from there. As far as 07 vs 08 OS, I would suggest the 08 OS as it will have the better MAF table (1 vs 2 with additional range). Make sure your wiring is correct (truck vs Vette OS might have different pinouts) and pick the proper ECM hardware to run an 08 Vette OS.

Not sure about the CASE, did you try using a Tech II and see if it tells you what other condition(s) needed to be met? (Never used a real Tech II so not sure what it looks like.)

Taz
September 19th, 2014, 08:27 AM
Erik is correct in his assessment of your mix and match approach of the components used. I had this very conversation with another Forum member recently - finding that more frequently people will bring an eclectic assembly of parts to a tuner-shop, and expect them to work miracles, all at budget pricing. Most tuner-shops just tune (generally only the MAF and Spark tables) - very few have developed the necessary additional parameters in the calibration to succeed with such a mix of parts.

To get you back on track - either use a truck throttle-body, pedal, and calibration, or use a Corvette throttle-body, pedal, and calibration. My two cents - find a way to use the truck pedal instead of the Corvette pedal that you originally installed. The 2005 to 2008 Corvette "silver blade" throttle-bodies have been out of production for quite awhile now, and their list price at your local GM dealer will be around $700.

The E38 that you have will accept either a 2007 or a 2008 calibration - so you are limited to those years with respect to the other components (unless you purchase a different E38).

Once you streamline the components, the actual tuning process should fall in line.

Chevy366
September 20th, 2014, 04:07 AM
Good read -- http://chevythunder.com/drive_by_wire.htm#1998-2004%20Corvette%20and%20Truck%20Throttle%20Body
(http://chevythunder.com/drive_by_wire.htm#1998-2004%20Corvette%20and%20Truck%20Throttle%20Body)
More : 2005+ corvette (http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=corvette) pedal is out of the question....it is based on the Gen IV operating system & ECM, uses no TAC module at all. If you are running / keeping the truck throttle body (http://stat.dealtime.com/DealFrame/DealFrame.cmp?bm=519&BEFID=96477&acode=537&code=537&aon=&crawler_id=1912695&dealId=0--7MtYcPdbwUv4vf8cl5A%3D%3D&searchID=&url=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-57618-1854-0%2F2%3Fkwid%3D1%26mtid%3D570%26crlp%3D1_240251%26 linkin_id%3D%7Blinkin_id%7D%26sortbid%3D%7Bbidamou nt%7D%26fitem%3D380897214160%26mt_id%3D570%26mpre% 3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fitm%252Flike %252F380897214160%26mid%3D446528%26sdc_id%3D%7Bsdc _id%7D&DealName=Dodge%20Ram%20Truck%20Throttle%20Body%20A ssembly%20With%20Tps%20Sensor%20Mopar%205161805aa&MerchantID=446528&HasLink=yes&category=0&AR=-1&NG=1&GR=1&ND=1&PN=1&RR=-1&ST=&MN=msnFeed&FPT=SDCF&NDS=1&NMS=1&NDP=1&MRS=&PD=0&brnId=2455&lnkId=8070676&Issdt=140919050633&IsFtr=0&IsSmart=0&dlprc=198.99&SKU=380897214160) from the 07 silverado, here is what you do.....

Use the '07 truck throttle body (assuming its a "old body style" gen III motor, by the post and pictures of the truck pedal)

Use a 2002-2007 truck TAC module

Use a 1997-2004 Vette Pedal.

The trick is, that you can interchange the Pedal between truck and vette.....but the TAC must match the Throttle Body (http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=throttle+body). Secondly, the operating system of the computer must match the TAC and Throttle body (http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=throttle+body) also (i.e....truck throttle body & TAC = blue / green ECM, and appropriate tune based on truck file) OR . . . . ( Vette throttle body (http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=throttle+body) / TAC....red / blue computer, and appropriate VETTE program based computer) -04 vettes used a blue/green connector computer, they are the only exception, all other years up till then are red-blue

The only variable that I cant tell you for certian, is if the harness between the pedal and the TAC is the same for truck and vette. I know it will plug in with the same connectors, but i believe there is 2 wires that must be transposed when switching between vette and truck pedals with a truck TAC. Call Robert @ fuel injection connection (303) 641-6400, he will verifty this and help you out, nice guy (http://ls1tech.com/forums/#)!

Ive done this exact swap several times, took a little trial and error on my part the first time, but it is something that I know works and have done many times since.

ALSO . . . . . .(not done, sorry!) You cant use the later model PCM to "eliminate" the TAC module on your motor....it is a 24x reluctor (http://viglink.pgpartner.com/rd.php?r=5316&m=820005899&q=n&rdgt=1411122847&it=1411554847&et=1411727647&priceret=35.39&pg=%7E%7E3&k=ba3eb343f59d0896865b3280430ba166&source=feed&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eamazon%2Ecom%2Fdp%2FB002WHC 9JO%2Fref%3Dasc%5Fdf%5FB002WHC9JO3294798%3Fsmid%3D A1XY2LVHE4IHUW%26tag%3Dpgmp%2D59%2D01%2D20%26linkC ode%3Ddf0%26creative%3D395109%26creativeASIN%3DB00 2WHC9JO&st=feed&mt=%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7E%7En%7E%7E%7E) and 1x cam sensor motor, and needs to be run with the corresponding 07 (old body style) and below computer. Gen III computers wont read Gen IV crank signals, and vice versa. The only exception to this is the LS2 GTO cars.....they use a Gen IV "tac-less" pedal and the Gen IV computer, but are a 24x motor, actually the ONLY 24x LS2 that was made. These are the only ECM's of the IV Gen cars that can read 24x, you could try this approach with the 06 vette pedal, if you like. Just remember that the Gen IV ECM's wont control automatic transmissions, they use a seperate computer with a jumper harness (http://stat.dealtime.com/DealFrame/DealFrame.cmp?bm=519&BEFID=96477&acode=536&code=536&aon=&crawler_id=1912695&dealId=N5-Q3sRQ7jZs7HSeTZl3TQ%3D%3D&searchID=&url=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-57618-1854-0%2F2%3Fkwid%3D1%26mtid%3D570%26crlp%3D1_240251%26 linkin_id%3D%7Blinkin_id%7D%26sortbid%3D%7Bbidamou nt%7D%26fitem%3D380920653779%26mt_id%3D570%26mpre% 3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fitm%252Flike %252F380920653779%26mid%3D446528%26sdc_id%3D%7Bsdc _id%7D&DealName=Ac%20Control%20Jumper%20Harness%205174076 ab&MerchantID=446528&HasLink=yes&category=0&AR=-1&NG=1&GR=1&ND=1&PN=1&RR=-1&ST=&MN=msnFeed&FPT=SDCF&NDS=1&NMS=1&NDP=1&MRS=&PD=0&brnId=2455&lnkId=8070676&Issdt=140919050633&IsFtr=0&IsSmart=0&dlprc=43.12&SKU=380920653779) for that. I would just stick with the gen III truck computer, truck throttle body, truck TAC module, and a 97-04 Vette pedal, with the TAC module-pedal harness wired correctly.