efilive or hptuners?

[dian]

hi

excuse me for asking this, but all threads on the subject are several years old.

i will be supercharging a 2000 corvette, dont see myself tuning another car soon and the price difference is not an issue.

what are the main reasons for using efilive in my situation?

thanks

[joecar]

EFILive will allow you to do this specifically for your needs (adding SC to 2000 Y-car):
- replace OS with COS (which has boost tables for VE/spark);

[joecar]

FlashScan V2 will allow you to:
- use serial comms if your wideband supports it (eliminates voltage offset problems);
- flash from SD card (no need to bring laptop to car);
- view and log to SD card (can leave laptop at home);
- view OBD2 data (including readiness tests, DTC (including description), mode $5 and $6 data) if you need this;

EFILive V7 scantool features:
- advanced correction maps with data filters;
- advanced customizable chart/gauges;
- scantool links into tunetool to show you the current operating cell in tables;
- run the Moates Roadrunner (PCM modified for real time emulation) if you have access to one.
- test/exercise all the various controls in real time (idle speed, trims, spark timing, various solenoids);

EFILive V7 tunetool features:
- transmission (and other) segment swaps if needed;
- compare tune files that have same OS id;

Have you tried the software...?

[dian]

no, have not tried yet, will buy one or the other.

so i dont need a laptop and can use a digital wideband. what is "sc" and "cos"? ("os" probably is operating system?)

[Tre-Cool]

I have both. hpt has a few more guys working for them so new ecu's have a bunch more options, but there scanner/logging software is a POS. Efilive is much more user friendly to use.

the simple things like being able to highlight data in a log and have it highlight in the editor is a god send. You can't do that with hpt, so being able to find/track things in the tune is a lot easier. Another thing I found recently with hpt is you cannot add calculated pid's after u have started your log. That to me is another downfall.

[dian]

thanks. i know im stupid. (not really, i have experience with motech.) what are calculated pids?

[joecar]

no, have not tried yet, will buy one or the other.

so i dont need a laptop and can use a digital wideband. what is "sc" and "cos"? ("os" probably is operating system?)
Yes, you don't need a laptop, you can do it all with a desktop.

Yes, a wideband that supports serial comms (I'll get you a list of the ones that are supported. Edit see below).


SC = supercharged

COS = custom operating system (for PCM)


https://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15936&d=1381124272

[joecar]

thanks. i know im stupid. (not really, i have experience with motech.) what are calculated pids?Calculated pids are user-defined pids that are defined by a mathematical expression that you enter.

As Tre-Cool said above, calc pids can be added before or after a log has been taken, and can be saved into a log file).

[5.7ute]

Plus all Efilive custom operating systems are free. No need to burn any extra credits.

[ScarabEpic22]

Plus all Efilive custom operating systems are free. No need to burn any extra credits.

To keep this fair, so are HPTuner's now.

I have both and use both (rarely these days unfortunately), but I find myself going to EFILive first. One of the biggest features is what tre-cool mentioned, the ability to have a log highlight the tune so you know exactly what the PCM/ECM is using at that particular point. Makes life a LOT easier!

[dian]

joe, a list with widebands would be great (i have to get one as well).

in what circumstances would you need a "cos", when going forced induction?

[ScarabEpic22]

For a LS1 PCM, yes you need a COS when going FI. (I specify LS1 because E38/E67 and newer, basically anything 06+ has factory support for FI).

Also for going Speed Density on a LS1 PCM it is a good idea to run a COS as without one the PCM will default to the low octane spark table. Running a COS lets you have both high and low octane spark tables and the factory interpolation active.

[dian]

god, maybe beter to buy a tune? (although, where would the fun be doing it?)

[picnic_george]

I use both. I think EFIlives COS is definitely better. The fact that I can pull timing based on boost is a big plus. EFIlive has a few other options that HPT doesn't. Other than that they are very similar. The biggest difference is just the layout. In the end, either will work for you. EFIlive is more expensive, I think it's a better product. I also use an LC1 wideband and serial logging is pretty sweet.

[joecar]

COS has a boost VE table which "extends" the normal VE table; and it also provides a boost spark timing table to modify spark advance during boost.

[dian]

what cos is that, what do you call it? how do i get it, with the initial purchase or download it later on? how do i get all values from original os in there? (would hate to have to copy all stuff in.)

[joecar]

See page 3 of this doc: LS1B COS Upgrade (http://download.efilive.com/Tutorials/PDF/Custom%20OS%20Upgrade%20Tutorial.pdf)

COS3 for the various OEM OS id's provides the boost VE table.

The COS's come with the software install;

the general procedure for upgrading to a COS is like this:
- in that pdf above locate your PCM's current OS id, and look at what the corresponding COS id would be;
- if your OS is not listed, then you would first swap to a 2001 or 2002 OS (by full flashing it in);
- then you would do the following:
- read your PCM and save to file;
- full flash the COS file indicated;
- cal flash from saved PCM file (from two steps above);
- read back from the PCM;
- edit the new COS tables (to place sane values in there), save to a new file (this is your base COS file);
- cal flash the edits;

you will have to do some tuning to correctly populate the boost VE table.

Note:
- full flash = flashing the OS and calibrations;
- cal flash = flashing the calibrations only;
- one PCM license credit is needed for flashing a PCM for the first time;
- flashing a COS requires no extra license credits.

[joecar]

If your 2000 tune is stock then you would simply flash in a stock 2002 tune and proceed with the COS upgrade from there.

If your 2000 tune is not stock, then you would compare it to a stock 2002 tune and tell the tunetool to create a script; you would run the script on the stock 2002 tune and flash it in, and then proceed with the COS upgrade from there.

[dian]

thanks for that. im slowly getting the picture.

so because 2000 year is not supported, i have to go to the 2002 system. it sais in that document, i will then have to retune. that is bad news, as retuning all the idle, enrichment and temp tables is a lot of work and maybe the cars are different in terms of fan controll etc. or should i not be worried? if i flash in the 2002 tune, how much work will it be to make the engine perform well?

also, do i understand correctly, i will loose the maf and closed loop with the 2 bar cos?

did i just read somewhere, that a full reflash can be done with the commercial license only? so i cant do all this wth a regular system?

[joecar]

...

so because 2000 year is not supported, i have to go to the 2002 system. it sais in that document, i will then have to retune. that is bad news, as retuning all the idle, enrichment and temp tables is a lot of work and maybe the cars are different in terms of fan controll etc. or should i not be worried? if i flash in the 2002 tune, how much work will it be to make the engine perform well?

...

The 2000 Y-car tune is almost the same as the 2002 Y-car tune... any differences can be copied over using scripts as I mentioned above:


...

If your 2000 tune is not stock, then you would compare it to a stock 2002 tune and tell the tunetool to create a script; you would run the script on the stock 2002 tune and flash it in, and then proceed with the COS upgrade from there.

[joecar]

also, do i understand correctly, i will loose the maf and closed loop with the 2 bar cos?
No, you will not lose the MAF...

with a COS you can still run the MAF...
the problem with the MAF in general is that larger boosts may exceed the PCM's MAF limit (512 g/s)... this is an internal limit of the PCM used on Gen3;

[ to avoid hitting this MAF limit, you would scale down the MAF, VE and IFR tables (and achieve the correct fueling) ]



did i just read somewhere, that a full reflash can be done with the commercial license only? so i cant do all this wth a regular system?
The V1 interface had 3 license levels: Personal, Commercial, Workshop; an upgrade from Personal to Commercial was $50.
The V2 interface had 2 license levels: Commerical and Workshop... i.e. when you purchase a V2 it already has Commercial level.

[dian]

thanks, that helps.

[Highlander]

Since this guy has a 2000 OS he can use a COS5 on it and I can make any cax file with any parameter. Not that he is going to need it, but COS5 is the best OS for an 0411 ECU, PERIOD. Unless anyone breaks the 512g/s limit, and i don't see that happening on an old outdated ECU, Efilive has everything and way much more than you could like. Once you start using EFILive you will fall in love with it and not look back.

Thanks

[joecar]

I also meant to add:

With the COS's, when running SD (MAF-less), a MAF DTC has to show up, but adaptive spark still works (sliding between HO and LO spark tables).

Of course, when running MAF'd, adaptive spark continues to work (no MAF DTC).

[joecar]

Yes, you can go to COS5/02020005 (which requires 2002 OS 12212156)... this gives you all of the above plus alpha-N (i.e. TP VE table) for HUGE duration cams.

[picnic_george]

No, you will not lose the MAF...

with a COS you can still run the MAF...
the problem with the MAF in general is that larger boosts may exceed the PCM's MAF limit (512 g/s)... this is an internal limit of the PCM used on Gen3;

I have never ran a COS with a MAF but I would love to know why they can't make it to where when the MAF hits it's limit OR when the map sees over 101.3kPa(or insert kPa here) it disreguards the MAF all together and goes straight to SD? Not that it matters because I don't have any issues with SD cars.

[dian]

hi

so i more and less decided to get hptuners. all this switching from 2000 to 2002 system, runnning a script (whatever that is), flashing in a cos just scares me. while im sure somebody who knows what hes doing will be just fine, am afraid there will be some stupid issue thats going to leave me stranded. in hptuners you just click on a button and get upgraded (i believe). on top of that, i just found out, you can do "black box logging" in hptuners too, no need for laptop in car.

[Highlander]

The black box capabilities are nowhere near! Bbx on efilive is light years ahead

dont be scared! No need for custom os. But having the option is a big plus

aside from that you will get the best tuning support than anywhere. We are more upbeat than hpt forums


If you get efilive ill personally help you out in any endeavor you go through

[picnic_george]

hi

so i more and less decided to get hptuners. all this switching from 2000 to 2002 system, runnning a script (whatever that is), flashing in a cos just scares me. while im sure somebody who knows what hes doing will be just fine, am afraid there will be some stupid issue thats going to leave me stranded. in hptuners you just click on a button and get upgraded (i believe). on top of that, i just found out, you can do "black box logging" in hptuners too, no need for laptop in car.
COS on efilive isn't that difficult at all. 1 more step over HPT, remember you can easily flash between OS(I.E. 00 f-body to 02) on efilive where you can't on HPT without licensing that OS. The 02 fbody OS is just better that's why people do it.
The script he's talking about is to compare files, 2 different OS' can't use the compare function. In HPT some different OS' you can use compare but not all. If you're starting from scratch your best bet is to start with an 02 OS and tune from there anyways.

[joecar]

When you compare 2 tune files (having the same OS), you can tell the tunetool to generate a script of the differences...

you can then take this script and apply it to another file (that may have a different OS).

[1FastBrick]

Since this guy has a 2000 OS he can use a COS5 on it and I can make any cax file with any parameter. Not that he is going to need it, but COS5 is the best OS for an 0411 ECU, PERIOD. Unless anyone breaks the 512g/s limit, and i don't see that happening on an old outdated ECU, Efilive has everything and way much more than you could like. Once you start using EFILive you will fall in love with it and not look back.

Thanks

Little off topic here but can you write a cax file for the 12212156 OS on the 411 Pcm's for 2 bar or 3 bar Support??? Or could you modify the COS5 to support the flex fuel option???

The 411's had flex fuel capability with 12212156 OS with the L59 engine option but there is no COS for that OS with support from EFI live.

I have been told the only option is to Use HPT with a COS to get 3 bar support or upgrade to a 1 MB PCM/ECU

[joecar]

12212156 has COS3/02020003 and COS5/02020005 as COS upgrades (which support boost)... did you mean an OS other than 12212156...?

[1FastBrick]

12212156 has COS3/02020003 and COS5/02020005 as COS upgrades (which support boost)... did you mean an OS other than 12212156...?

Does it support the flex fuel sensor? L59 application?

[Taz]

Little off topic here but can you write a cax file for the 12212156 OS on the 411 Pcm's for 2 bar or 3 bar Support??? Or could you modify the COS5 to support the flex fuel option???

The 411's had flex fuel capability with 12212156 OS with the L59 engine option but there is no COS for that OS with support from EFI live.

I have been told the only option is to Use HPT with a COS to get 3 bar support or upgrade to a 1 MB PCM/ECU


Not sure where you found this information ... but much of it is incorrect.

The 2002 L59 5.3L Flex Fuel engine did use the 12200411 PCM, but these did not use OS12212156.

HPT does not offer a 3-bar COS for the Flex Fuel OS - they do offer a 2-bar COS.



Does it support the flex fuel sensor? L59 application?


The 2002 L59 5.3L Flex Fuel engines used OS12216125.

The more common OS12212156 used on many 2002 platforms, does not appear to readily support a Flex Fuel sensor - as a new portion of code was added to OS12216125, that did not exist in OS12212156.

Using a 1Mb PCM and a 2003 or 2004 OS is a much easier path - to a Flex Fuel compatible COS.

[1FastBrick]

You are right. I was posting off my Phone earlier and Typed the wrong OS in.

OS 12216125 L59 application for 2002 with Flex fuel sensor.

17746
17747

I, as well as others, would like to see these support boost on the 12200411 PCM!!!

It would be cheaper and easier to flash a calibration than it would be re-wire a 99-02 truck just to run a 1 MB PCM.

I am sure the 98-02 F body guys would be all over it too, as well as guys with Hot rods using the 411 PCM's as a base set up.

I was told by the cool kids that HPT has a COS that supports this.

[Taz]

The odds of EFILive investing the resources to create a new Custom Operating System (COS) for an obsolete controller are pretty much zero.

There are many people patiently waiting for support for other controllers that are currently in production.

The wiring harness re-pin necessary to convert from a 512Kb LS1-B PCM to 1Mb LS1-B PCM is minimal.

The people who convert their 1995 to 1999 Gen I Vortec trucks from a Vortec PCM (Black Box) to a 512Kb LS1-B PCM have to move every pin from one controller to the next controller - and this larger task still only takes a few hours.

If you can get by with a 2-Bar COS, then HPT might be the path of least effort.

If you actually need a 3-Bar COS, then you are right back to the 1Mb PCM with either software.

Unless you already own HPT, the most cost effect solution is to roll up your sleeves and install the 1Mb PCM.

[joecar]

You could also scale the VE/MAF/IFR (and spark and other other) tables to run boost (requires some work, but then nothing is ever easy/cheap)...

[dian]

so i decided to get efilive after all.

i want to get it from a dealer/tuner including a "base tune" and want to get lambda/fuel pressure/bosst gauges and sensors and bungs incl. plugs etc. all at the same time.

iv had no luck so far. two mails to the dealer in england remain unanswered. i contacted a corvette tuner in the us. he answered my mail but never got back with a quote. i contacted another one, never got a quote either.

so any advice where to get efilive and the stuff mentioned above?

[Highlander]

Call mike@ vengeance
1 (tel:16064048434)4046068434

[dian]

would you have an email address?

vengeance racing? probably not.

[joecar]

http://www.vengeancepcm.com/

[dian]

so i sent mike an email yesterday, no reply. i called that number just now. "call has been forwarded to automatic meessage system ist not available" it said.

well, i dont know. efilife seems like the better system, but seems like hard to get. i might buy hptuners online and rely on the guy i bought the ecs charger from on support, as thats what he uses. will think it over untill tomorrow, but im pretty much fed up.

still weird, im prepared to spend $1500+ and cant find a business partner?

(i see this forum doesnt state location. im based in switzerland. is that what scares people off?)

[Highlander]

Talked to Mike,

since he doesnt follow this forum he thought it was a scam. He will be getting everything ready and contacting you shortly. He is swamped on the dyno.

we know a couple of shops over there and we have a scheduled trip to norway next year for some classes and stuff. If you want to join in.

He'll take good care of you.

[Brad Kimbler]

I just want to add I have both EFILIVE and HPTUNERS.. I strongly favor EFILIVE, it allows for such better turbo and SD tunes...Only reason I have HPtuners is because it supports V6 cars (3.8camaros and grand ams...LOL) and I have to do those sometimes...