Need help with a tune before Monday 12 Jan 15

[Dirktdolman]

I have a 03 Silverado 6.0 4L80 4X4. I am towing a 6 X 12 enclosed trailer to SoCal on Monday (12 Jan) and want to see if there can be some changes to my tune to get a little better MPG. I have attached my current tune and a couple scans. I wanted to do a WBO2 scan but I have not heard back from PLX Tech Dept.

17907
17908
17909

[joecar]

B3616: set this same as 2002 Camaro (i.e. 65% TP below 3200 rpm, 35% TP above 3200 rpm).
B3618: this is quite rich (EQR 1.23); if you keep seeing positive LTFT's you can probably be safe by setting B3618 to 1.18, but keep an eye on KR.

As long as it goes to CL and trims, it should be ok for now (until you get your wideband going), just use light throttle if possible.

What is the problem with your wideband...?

[Dirktdolman]

Thanks you for the quick response. I will make the changes and run the V2 going down to keep an eye on the KR.

I contacted PLX on Dec 17th asking if two SM-AFRs can be connected to a V2. They said they would have to ask the Tech Dept. I have not heard back from them.

[joecar]

You have to make it clear to them that you want to "serial comms daisy chain" to a logging device...

if they come back and tell you the format, then we'll have to pass this on to Paul.

[Dirktdolman]

I asked "Can I connect two of these to a EFILived V2 scanner via Serial?" I was referring to the SM-AFR Gen 4. This is the units they had on sale during the holidays.

[Steve Bryant]

Dirktdolman,
Your tune could use some refinement, but I don't see anything that should cause you a problem during your trip towing the trailer or using the vehicle for daily driving before you do some more work on the tune. In my estimation, you're going to get about 9 - 10 MPG at best towing the trailer (especially if there is any hilly/mountainous terrain involved.

When you do start working on the tune, here are some things that I would work on:
1. Set the Parameter {B4206} Use O2 With Open Loop Commanded Fuel Table to Disable (currently Enabled in your tune). With this parameter enabled, it will always foul up any open loop tuning you may ever do because it constantly uses short term fuel trim to try to steer the mixture back to stoichiometric no matter what you have {B3618} Power Enrichment Modifier Based on RPM or any other open loop mixture modifier. Believe me, I've fought this battle and I have scars.
2. Your LTFT value could use some work. They need to be much closer to zero across the board. The first thing that I would do to fix this is to calibrate the MAF Table {B5001}. Use the portions of the CALC.VET post 1 (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16280-CALC-VET-Summary-Notes) that relate to calibrating B5001 using LTFTBEN. This can be done without a wideband AFR of any type. Since you likely have the stock cam and induction system (you didn't mention any mods to the engine), your stock VE table is probably very acceptable as is. Also, the dynamics of driving a truck like yours don't demand the VE table to be spot-on as would be desirable on a sportier car.
3. The PLX SM-AFR units have 0-5 VDC analog outputs and two of them could be connected to a V1 or a V2 without any modification. However, for the kind of tuning that you're trying to do (improve drivability and perhaps gas mileage), a WBO2 of any type is not really going to be necessary unless you want to refine the AFR using PE in the upper throttle/RPM range.

You may already be on the road by now since it's January 12. However, if you read this post before, try to relax and enjoy the trip as much as possible! Remember to use TOW/HAUL mode for the transmission and keep you speed below 60 for the best fuel economy. You can do some more tuning later if you want!

All my best,

Steve

[Dirktdolman]

Thank Joe and Steve. I did some mileage checks for the trip. Pulling an empty trailer down I averaged 11 mpg and 10 mpg pulling a full trailer back up (Boise Idaho to Palm Desert California).

I scanned both ways. I tried to break up the run down into 30 min to 1 hour blocks. On the way back up I scanned from fuel up to fuel up. Also when I left Idaho I was on 87 oct. I bummed up to 89 after the first fill up. I used 91 for the trip backup. I kept the speed at about 65 of below.

I was hoping I could hook the PLX units together for a serial input to the V2.

[Dirktdolman]

This is my latest tune (with speed corrections)

18031

[joecar]

Your WOT shift points are upside-down... the downshift MPH has to be below the corresponding upshift MPH...

i.e. require the following relationships:
- D0925-27 < D0910-12,
- D0930-32 < D0915-17,
- D0935-37 < D0920-22,
- D0966 < D0963,
- D0967 < D0963,
- D0968 < D0965.

Also, set the D0960,1,2 to 100% all across.

Also, set D1101 to 256 mph all across, in all columns (it is a bad idea to lock the TCC in 2nd gear, especially at high TP/torque).

[joecar]

Take note of this in general:



PT shift table relationships:

basic relationships:
1->2 curve should be above 2->1 curve;
2->3 curve should be above 3->2 curve;
3->4 curve should be above 4->3 curve;
. . .

additional relationships:
3->2 curve should be above 1->2 curve;
4->3 curve should be above 2->3 curve;
. . .

this can be summarized as: the curves cannot cross anywhere;

if they cross anywhere, then you will not be able to predict what gear the TCM selects when the operating point hits the cross.


It applies to the PT and WOT shift curves/points.

Also remember that WOT shift requires both the WOT MPH and WOT RPM to be met.

[Dirktdolman]

Your WOT shift points are upside-down... the downshift MPH has to be below the corresponding upshift MPH...

i.e. require the following relationships:
- D0925-27 < D0910-12,
- D0930-32 < D0915-17,
- D0935-37 < D0920-22,
- D0966 < D0963,
- D0967 < D0963,
- D0968 < D0965.

Joe,

Are you saying the left set of columns should be lower than the right set of columns?

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad351/Daring1234/WOT%20Shift%20Speed%20-%20Stock_zpsav4venau.jpg (http://s951.photobucket.com/user/Daring1234/media/WOT%20Shift%20Speed%20-%20Stock_zpsav4venau.jpg.html)




Also, set D1101 to 256 mph all across, in all columns (it is a bad idea to lock the TCC in 2nd gear, especially at high TP/torque).


The D1101 is Low Pressure Adjust 1-2 Shift (kPa). There is now MPH. Did you mean D1001 TCC Apply Speeds - Second Gear (also D1002)?

[Dirktdolman]

This is my stock settings

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad351/Daring1234/WOT%20Shift%20Speed%20-%20Stock_zpsav4venau.jpg (http://s951.photobucket.com/user/Daring1234/media/WOT%20Shift%20Speed%20-%20Stock_zpsav4venau.jpg.html)


If I understand this correctly, the modified numbers should look something like this.

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad351/Daring1234/WOT%20Shift%20Speed%20-%20Modified_zpsvis4l7qm.jpg (http://s951.photobucket.com/user/Daring1234/media/WOT%20Shift%20Speed%20-%20Modified_zpsvis4l7qm.jpg.html)


What is the purpose to set a downshift speed for WOT?

[joecar]

Joe,

Are you saying the left set of columns should be lower than the right set of columns?
Yes.




The D1101 is Low Pressure Adjust 1-2 Shift (kPa). There is now MPH. Did you mean D1001 TCC Apply Speeds - Second Gear (also D1002)?
Lol, fast fat finger mistyping... Yes, I meant D1001.

Yes, you could do D1002 also.

[joecar]

This is my stock settings

The stock values may not necessarily be sane.



If I understand this correctly, the modified numbers should look something like this.

Make sure that the MPH values do not exceed the maximum RPM for each gear (when you click on an MPH cell, the bottom of the tunetool shows the corresponding RPM for each gear (based on the Speedo segment axle ratio and tire diameter)(make sure you look at the right one)).

Usually I make the downshift MPH at least 5 MPH lower than the upshift MPH.



What is the purpose to set a downshift speed for WOT?WOT downshift requires both WOT MPH and WOT RPM to be met (that's just how the PCM does it)... usually you set one lower than needed, so the other one is the trigger.

[Dirktdolman]

Make sure that the MPH values do not exceed the maximum RPM for each gear (when you click on an MPH cell, the bottom of the tunetool shows the corresponding RPM for each gear (based on the Speedo segment axle ratio and tire diameter)(make sure you look at the right one)).

How do I know what the maximum RPM for each gear is? When I change the value the corresponding RPM changes.

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad351/Daring1234/WOT%20Shift%20Speed%20Max%20RPM_zps8lcw1clo.jpg (http://s951.photobucket.com/user/Daring1234/media/WOT%20Shift%20Speed%20Max%20RPM_zps8lcw1clo.jpg.ht ml)


Are you talking about the Shift at RPM

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad351/Daring1234/Shift%20at%20RPM_zps5ebkl2kb.jpg (http://s951.photobucket.com/user/Daring1234/media/Shift%20at%20RPM_zps5ebkl2kb.jpg.html)

[joecar]

The maximum RPM is the rev limiter (B3303, B5401), or the RPM corresponding to the vehicle speed limiter (H0109, H0111)...

or it can simply be that you want each shift to be at some particular RPM (say at peak torque), so they won't necessarily be the rev limiter RPM

( for example, your tach redline might be at 6000 rpm, your rev limiter may be set at 6200 rpm, but you want the shift to occur at/below 5800 rpm, for example ).

[joecar]

No, the shift RPM you showed in the pic is part of a 2 component WOT shift trigger...

( WOT RPM and WOT MPH ) ( at WOT both have to be met for a WOT upshift )

the WOT MPH is not necessarily the maximum RPM.

[Dirktdolman]

I think I understand. The numbers in B3303 are the limit you want the motor to run. Kind of like missing a gear in a manual trans and the limiter catches it.

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad351/Daring1234/Fuel%20Cut-off%20Limiters%20in%20Gear_zpsfpo1osaz.jpg (http://s951.photobucket.com/user/Daring1234/media/Fuel%20Cut-off%20Limiters%20in%20Gear_zpsfpo1osaz.jpg.html)

but B5401 will kick in first.

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad351/Daring1234/ECT%20COntrolled%20RPM%20Limit_zpswcmnurz2.jpg (http://s951.photobucket.com/user/Daring1234/media/ECT%20COntrolled%20RPM%20Limit_zpswcmnurz2.jpg.htm l)

As long as I keep D0910-22 below B3303 and B5401 I should be good.

[Dirktdolman]

Is there a way to convert all the KPH to MPH in my tune? I know I can do it in a PID but do not know how in a tune.

[joecar]

( B5401 kicks in only if you have DBW electronic throttle )

[joecar]

Is there a way to convert all the KPH to MPH in my tune? I know I can do it in a PID but do not know how in a tune.

See post #2 here: Part-throttle-shift-table-conversion (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?1757-Part-throttle-shift-table-conversion)

[Dirktdolman]

( B5401 kicks in only if you have DBW electronic throttle )

I am not sure if it makes a difference on any of the other settings we have discussed but mine is a DBW

Is there a way to convert all the KPH to MPH in my tune? I know I can do it in a PID but do not know how in a tune.

[joecar]

I am not sure if it makes a difference on any of the other settings we have discussed but mine is a DBW

Is there a way to convert all the KPH to MPH in my tune? I know I can do it in a PID but do not know how in a tune.
See post #2 here: Part-throttle-shift-table-conversion (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?1757-Part-throttle-shift-table-conversion)

[joecar]

This is how you set MPH in the tunetool:


In tune tool, go Edit->Configure Display Units, select the rows you want to change, and press Imperial.

You can press on each of the headings "Data Units", "Col Units" or "Row Units" to sort on that column so all the km/h's (for example) will grouped together, and select all the rows in each group, click Imperial; do this for each of the 3 headings (Data. Col, Row) as km/h appears as data, columns, and rows in various different tables. Then when done click Ok, and restart the tunetool.

...

[Dirktdolman]

YOU ROCK, thank you

[Dirktdolman]

Shouldn't the Normal and performance columns at 100 TPS in D0901 be matched to the settings in D0910 and D0911?

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad351/Daring1234/Part%20Throttle%201%20to%202%20compared%20to%20WOT _zpshxjxcwpa.jpg (http://s951.photobucket.com/user/Daring1234/media/Part%20Throttle%201%20to%202%20compared%20to%20WOT _zpshxjxcwpa.jpg.html)

[joecar]

Yes, they should be the same values.

The 100% values in the PT tables should be the same as the WOT MPH parameters.

[Dirktdolman]

Joe
Is there an easy way to enter the tire diameter?

[joecar]

Joe
Is there an easy way to enter the tire diameter?Yes, in the Speedo segment.

[Dirktdolman]

Is that a correction just for the speedo or does it effect all the shift settings? I was thinking it was just the speedo. Which would mean I would have to change all my shift points and such if I were to change tire diameter.

[joecar]

On the Speedometer segment click the Speedo Calculator button...

then on the Speedo Calculator tab:
enter your new tire diameter or tire size, click Apply;

then on the Shift Point Correction tab:
in the New Calibration Value pane, click the <- (left arrow) button,
and verify that your new tire diameter shows up;
at the bottom, click Select All, click Apply, click Close;
go File->Save As and save with a new filename.

[Dirktdolman]

THANK YOU

I was going to play with it but have been sick. About a year and half ago I had a guy do some changes. I wonder if he changed the shift points