whipple supercharged 8.1

[djv86]

a customer brought his truck into the shop with a detonation issue.. whatever tuning has been done to the engine and or the incorrect spark plugs have managed to blow up 3 engines the past 7 months.. engine is bone stock minus the carb approved whipple supercharger kit including the intercooler.. engine did have the incorrect heat range spark plugs.. correct plugs are in now and test drive will be tomorrow. I'm here to ask if anybody has performed a speed density tune on one of these engines..

I've got a few different methods of tuning and here to see what anybody here has done or found best results. i under stand the whipple ecu adds extra fuel once boost kicks in the only problem is the gm ecu NEVER goes into open loop and takes fuel away from the stock injectors under boost to maintain 14.7 afr causing horrible knock and piston damage.

is it possible to make a custom map using the CALC.VE method and during the copy and pasting to buy the new map the original map only goes up to 105kpa and this engine under boost makes almost 150kpa can i just increase the map reading to 160 and put a boost sensitive map sensor in or is the custom OS a MUST for controlling boost.. only thinking this since the moment i create the custom os is changes the os part number and here in california I'm unaware upon if the new smog machine will catch the diff os part number.

steps I've done so far

1. fuel pressure does what its supposed to per. whipple
2.boost doesnt excess whipples spec
3.monitored AFR using my wideband on bank 2 sensor 1 location and the AFR is between 10-11.1 under WOT and still "pings" while at WOT watching knock retard on the TECH2 it only see a maximum of 4 degrees retard

any help or information would be amazing.

hopefully there isn't already a thread on this exact configuration.

in the attachment is the current tune file before any custom stuff have been done minus tire and fuel tank parameters

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i also just attempted to data log the first event for the calc_ve and something is wrong.. my data log events showed up but when i average the ben from the wbo2 all readings are zero and help would be appreciated below is the data log file and the calc pics file

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[ScarabEpic22]

If you're seeing 10-11.1:1 AFR on the wideband, it means the Whipple box (fooler box?) is adding enough fuel. That's pretty rich though, I dont know enough about the 8.1s but the LSx motors run better with ~11.5:1-ish AFR under boost (i.e. you're still rich now). What's KR look like, do you need to pull some spark out of it too?

I checked and you can use COS #03190003, I would buy a 2 Bar MAP sensor (so you can read boost) and tune it properly. Ditch the Whipple box and run everything through the PCM, I imagine the Whipple box just reads boost and adds more fuel based on that.

[djv86]

If you're seeing 10-11.1:1 AFR on the wideband, it means the Whipple box (fooler box?) is adding enough fuel. That's pretty rich though, I dont know enough about the 8.1s but the LSx motors run better with ~11.5:1-ish AFR under boost (i.e. you're still rich now). What's KR look like, do you need to pull some spark out of it too?

I checked and you can use COS #03190003, I would buy a 2 Bar MAP sensor (so you can read boost) and tune it properly. Ditch the Whipple box and run everything through the PCM, I imagine the Whipple box just reads boost and adds more fuel based on that.

most kr ive seen is 6 degrees and i think the fuel trim is super rich since i have bank 2 sensor 1 unplugged to use my wb02.

if you play my data log why is my map values all end up being zero?? id my pid creation incorrect of does the ben factor use the analog input from the wbo2 or does it use the serial input?



and also cyl 1 has 80% cyl leakage past rings engine has 4000 miles on rebuild but trying to fix the detonation before fixing engine then redo tune again once new engine is replaced

[joecar]

What is rail pressure (if it varies, how does it vary)...?

Does FPR have an air hose going to intake manifold (i.e. MAP referenced)...?
If so, temporarily disconnect reference hose and measure rail pressure.

Your stock IFR table being flat indicates your FPR is MAP referenced... did the Wipple kit change this...?

What injectors are you now running (rated flowrate @ what rated pressure)...?

[djv86]

I'm in aware who tuned the stock ecm but stock injectors and also has whipples ecm and fuel management installed. My main concern is why there is no retard

[joecar]

PE enable is too restrictive.

[joecar]

You calc_pids.txt file has a text problem and is not much useful...

Which wideband are you using (remind me again)...?

We're going to use the calc_pids.txt file from the Calc.VET/Calc.MAFT threads (and tailor it for your tuning method).

Are you running SD (MAF-less)...?

Are you correcting the VE table using wideband lambda or LTFT or both...?

[joecar]

If you're running a COS you can make two VE maps...

[djv86]

You calc_pids.txt file has a text problem and is not much useful...

Which wideband are you using (remind me again)...?

We're going to use the calc_pids.txt file from the Calc.VET/Calc.MAFT threads (and tailor it for your tuning method).

Are you running SD (MAF-less)...?

Are you correcting the VE table using wideband lambda or LTFT or both...?


You are correct I can't figure out the disaplament portion of the calcpids.txt

I have AEM wideband

It's running as it would stock so I'm guessing maf controlling

And the ve table I'm in sure I haven't made a custom table yet. The truck has to be smogged still and Un sure if a sd tune will make it fail a visual inspection

[joecar]

If you use g*K/kPa units for VE you can ignore displacement.

Which model AEM...? Does it have a serial port (for connecting to your laptop/PC)...?

So with the Whipple kit, you are are running the stock tune file with Whipple edits...?

SD tune will make smog test fail the OBD-2 readout (since MAF DTC will be present).

Where are you located...?

[djv86]

California. And the whipple ecm has several diff methods of tuning has two extra injectors to add fuel under boost well over 200gps maf reading and then monitors 02signals and serial connection yes I got it working the v2 reads same afr as wideband gauge itself. Some whipple kits required ecm tuning some did not. The engine also NEVER goes into open loop. Engine has very serious pre ignition issues causing engine damage. This is the third engine in a year truck pings big time under even 1psi boost.

[djv86]

I just unplug the whipple causing it to not create boost and used the tech2 and reprogrammed ecm to factory gm sps tuning and gonna drive it later and see if it has issues with a known stock tune

[ScarabEpic22]

You should weld a real WBO2 bung in and replace the front B2S1 O2 pre-cat (assuming that since you're in CA you have cats). Might be causing issues with PE too, not sure.

I stand by my previous advice of buying a 2Bar MAP and running COS3 to tune it properly, without any Whipple boxes/injectors. You will probably need to buy larger injectors if you dont have them already.

[joecar]

+1 2-bar MAP sensor and COS3, without Whipple box/injectors (need larger injectors as Erik said).

[joecar]

With a COS we should be able to tune VE and MAF for whole MAP range (NA and boost).

[djv86]

You should weld a real WBO2 bung in and replace the front B2S1 O2 pre-cat (assuming that since you're in CA you have cats). Might be causing issues with PE too, not sure.

I stand by my previous advice of buying a 2Bar MAP and running COS3 to tune it properly, without any Whipple boxes/injectors. You will probably need to buy larger injectors if you dont have them already.

Yes cats. And I've got the map sensor but idk if the smog machine will catch the os number change with the custom os. I've made a custom os and messed with the calcvet table so far but never applied the changes from new map

[joecar]

If the Whipple has a CARB EO #, if they say anything about the PCM OS # change, tell them that's what came with the Whipple.

For prior to 2005, I don't know that they know the correct OS/CVN id numbers...

[joecar]

Do you know anyone who recently got failed in CA for OS and/or CVN change for a pre-2005 vehicle...?

[djv86]

I'm not sure myself what they do. But I agree I would say that it's custom calibration for the carb eo number