2010-2015 Cummins CSP and EDA update

[cindy@efilive]

For those of you who do not subscribe to our newsletter, today we posted a progress report for CSP and EDA.

Development progress, screen shots and video can be found here https://www.efilive.com/latest/cat/newsletter/post/2010-15-cummins-csp5-eda-update/

Cheers
Cindy

[WyoFreeride]

Woohoo

Can't wait for real logging abilities.

Keep up the good work

[BigCE]

Looks really good.

One question, I was always under the understanding that the oil pressure reading in these trucks was just a simulated value and not actually true. I think it might have been H&S that originally said that. Basically I understood that the value fluctuated depending on rpm and the only thing the sensor in the motor did was tell you if you had "zero" pressure.

[GMPX]

On the 2010+ there is a Oil Pressure sensor shown on the wiring diagrams (don't know if it is just a switch or a real sensor), but I think what you mentioned is certainly correct for the earlier ECM's (2006 etc).
Certainly reviewing the logs from a 2012 the Oil Pressure tracks the RPM very close so it may be simulated, but it seemed like a logical PID to include as the ECM may trip some warnings based on this value.

[SASDakota]

So what was the theory behind adjustable pilot qty but not adjustable pilot timing?

[Mitco39]

Only can fit so many tables, cant have them all.

[SASDakota]

Mitco, You misunderstood my question.

Why adjustable qty? It references the main injection conversion table {D0508} anyways.. Make your pilot changes in there. That leaves room for pilot timing to take its place.

Yeah sure it may affect post injection by doing it that way. But I got much better results by adjusting pilot timing than I ever did with Qty on a 4th gen.

[GMPX]

Here's the problem, I originally did them with Pilot timing but it was then requested by quite a number of our Cummins beta testers that we replace pilot timing for pilot quantity. I would say 80% of them wanted quantity over timing.
Unfortunately as Mitch said, there is simply no room in the ECM to have both pilot timing and quantity switchable.

[SASDakota]

Here's the problem, I originally did them with Pilot timing but it was then requested by quite a number of our Cummins beta testers that we replace pilot timing for pilot quantity. I would say 80% of them wanted quantity over timing.


I guess I am once again in the minority... :unsure:

Thanks for all the hours you guys have put into this project. Even at half those parameters it is 10x better than MCC.

[GMPX]

I'd welcome a debate on it, even if to shed light on the reasons why, but at this stage it probably won't be changed (again!). I just did as I was told :angel_innocent:

[SASDakota]

I'd welcome a debate on it, even if to shed light on the reasons why, but at this stage it probably won't be changed (again!). I just did as I was told :angel_innocent:

I agree, I would love to hear why many chose qty over timing. I am by no means a mass tuner, but there are a handful of local trucks (chevy[efi], dodge[efi/mcc], ford[mcc]) I have tuning on. All the 4th gen rams responded more to timing than quantity. And if we can already control pilot pulse in {D0508} based on pressure, and kinda sorta rpms based off rail map. It made more sense like you had it originally with pilot timing. Atleast in my mind. But I'm not in the Beta program nor a big name tuner so I ask my questions here. Not trying to be a pain Ross, just trying to understand what is going on.


Problem I see with a discussion, the diesel tuning community has gone extremely cut throat. Doesn't seem that those who know are as helpful in the later years. I'm sure they would be willing to talk with you guys however.

[GMPX]

Like I said, I was just following orders, sorry.

[cindy@efilive]

Problem I see with a discussion, the diesel tuning community has gone extremely cut throat. Doesn't seem that those who know are as helpful in the later years. I'm sure they would be willing to talk with you guys however.

I don't think many tuners see it like that. I think they offer the same help that they did years ago, the difference is what took 15-20 hours of trial and error in development to determine the required outcome based on different strategies now takes over 100 hours of development given the volume of combinations that now need to be tested.

I think the difference is lots of people give up when they can't find a solution in a relatively short time frame and expect others to tell them, whereas in the past they didn't need to be told because they found their own solution in a relatively short time frame.

Cheers
Cindy

[BigCE]

I think the right call was made, I would also rather have switching pilot quantity than timing. Not to say pilot timing isn't important, I change the pilot timing on all of my tunes but I can live with it not being switchable.

[SASDakota]

Pilot aside... How is CSP/EDA coming along Ross?

[GMPX]

You should see some internet noise this week about it, we have actually been waiting for the public release to go out so our testers can safely run public and beta software on the same PC.

[SASDakota]

COOL! Soon as pre-release comes out I'll be up late that night! :drool:

[LMMPerrona]

I'm anxiously waiting for the release as well. Hope all testing goes good so it can be out to public very soon. :cheers:

[GMPX]

There has already been a fair bit of testing prior to this, now we have just added more OS for testing on a wider variety of trucks.

[diesel_importer]

I bet this is going to be a freakin hit! Seems like nobody wants a single tune anymore.

[SASDakota]

I run a single tune 95% of the time. I am in it for EDA more than anything.

[GMPX]

Ok, quick update for everyone now that the end of the week has been reached in our part of the world.

It was a week of discovery for us all in testing as the first deleted trucks starting running CSP5/EDA, up to this point we had insisted on stock trucks only. These of course were not deleted using EFILive so don't get too excited on the 'deleted' statement, however unexpectedly this bought to the surface some minor issues with a couple of PID's in the EDA stream. Weird stuff like vehicle speed reading zero, but more importantly CSP was not switching tunes, all things that had previously been tested fine on stock trucks. So we went back and figured out what was going on and made some changes and everything appears to be working ok now with stock and deleted trucks.
The beta testers are going to get another software build tonight, if all goes well with this update then we should be on target for a May public beta for all 2010 - 2015, pickups and Cab/Chassis. :cucumber:

Just to refresh everyone's memory CSP for Cummins looks like this...

CSP5 (Five tunes) - 2006-2007 5.9L Cummins (already released)
CSP5 (Five tunes) - 2007-2009 6.7L Cummins (already released)
CSP5 (Five tunes) - 2010-2012 6.7L Cummins Pickups
CSP2 (Two tunes) - 2011-2012 6.7L Cummins C&C trucks
CSP4 (Four tunes) - 2013-2015 6.7L Cummins Pickups
CSP4 (Four tunes) - 2013-2015 6.7L Cummins C&C Trucks

The restrictions of the number of tunes available was beyond our control, it was all to do with how much spare memory was left in the ECM for that application. The 11-12 C&C vehicles obviously coming off the worst, but all these still come with EDA ability.

We are also going to do some more on vehicle testing for faster flash times, on the bench we usually flash a 2013+ in around 7 to 8 minutes, but we had reliability issues at this speed on the trucks so it was slowed down for our first public release, however we've made some changes and hope that it will work out stable enough we can stick with the faster flash times on the vehicles too.

[DURAtotheMAX]

Great work Ross! Awesome!

Just out of curiosity, what extra controls and "stuff" do the 2011-2012 cab/chassis OS's have in them that take up so much more memory?

[Mitco39]

Ben, the C&C trucks have to also control the Urea System on it.

[Mitco39]

Quicker flash times and EDA logging?! Thats awesome.

[SASDakota]

With the trans handled by the same module. Do you plan to offer any EDA support on trans side of things? That would be a game changer for 68rfes IMO!

[GMPX]

No plans to add additional parameters to EDA at this stage.

[cindy@efilive]

Documentation for 2010-15 Cummins CSP is now available for download ahead of our software release scheduled for later this week. http://www.efilive.com/documentation-tutorials

Cheers
Cindy

[LMMPerrona]

nice... :rockon::unwrap:

[Tarmacblack]

Hi Cindy,

Are we still looking at a EDA/CSP Beta release this week?

thanks!

[LMMPerrona]

Waiting for that answer here as well.

[GMPX]

We were waiting on confirmation that the 11-12 C&C (two position) OS was ok.....just got word about 30 mins ago everything is working fine. :cucumber:

[LMMPerrona]

Nice, that being said I'm hoping it's released before this weekend.

[GMPX]

Public Beta for CSP5 2010+ has been posted here.
https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?25548-May-11th-2015-EFILive-Public-Beta-CSP5-Release

Cheers,
Ross

[SASDakota]

Yes!!!!

[Tarmacblack]

Thanks again for all the hard work! Looking forward to testing the public beta!

[BIG_RED_INJUN]

Anymore {efilive} updates for the 2013-2015 cummins? Like pids to monitor {Cubic_mils}?

Big Red

[GMPX]

We didn't bother with trying to enhance the factory scan option in these ECM's because it was pretty bad. People just update to CSP which comes with EDA Scanning and that does everything and more.

[BIG_RED_INJUN]

I will search for CSP and EDA. I have no idea what these are.. I am a noob. lol.

Big Red

[GMPX]

Ah ok.
CSP is switchable on the fly tuning.
EDA is our own datalogging system for the Cummins, faster and more comprehensive that what the ECM can normally do.

[BIG_RED_INJUN]

Question about this update. I have EFIlive scan and tune V8.2.2 and EFIlive scan V7.5.7. I was able to log using v7.5.7 with limited pids. I am looking for cmm3 {Cubic_mils} This version does not support that. If I use V8.2.2 {Scan and tune} a message pops up says "this option not available yet." So, is there another piece that I need to log Cmm3's?

Big_Red

[cindy@efilive]

Logging on Cummins is different to other platforms. The factory logging capabilities were 'simple' and 'unusable' in terms of detailed data collection. EFILive created our own logging platform called EDA (Enhanced Data Logging). EDA is ONLY available to customers who relfash their ECM with a CSP (Cummins switchable tuning) operating system.

Full instructions on how to create a CSP tune file, and setup EDA logging can be found in the CSP Upgrade tutorials either on our website here http://www.efilive.com/documentation-tutorials or within the Help -> Documents menu of your V8 software. NOTE: Each Cummins platform has a slightly different process and set of instructions given ECM architecture is different, so please ensure you select the document that suits your vehicle.

Given the complexity involved in creating this customized proprietary technology, EDA is only available via V8 software using BBL (Black box logging features) or via V7 Scan tool in pass-thru mode. The documentation detailed above provide step by step instructions on how to enable EDA for both V8 and V7 software.

EDA contains a fixed list of logging parameters that cannot be modified or changed - the development complexity was significant and cannot be revisited given that future changes will impact on existing customers. You will need to look within the software to see if it covers the PID you require. If it does, you will need to log the entire EDA group. If it does not contain your PID, then you will need to research other tools on the market to see if they can assist you.

Cheers
Cindy

[BIG_RED_INJUN]

Thank you for the explanation. I have some reading and having to get acclimated to this "new" process. I have used EFI live in the past on a 5.9 Cummins and logging cubic mils was part of the logging tool. So, I figured after all of the steps {required to edit a file} had this feature also. The process to edit this one is scary one to say the least.. with the warnings and finding a file to use as a base after unlocking it... yikes!
The software is working as expected and we are seeing results. We would like to have a better picture to see how this are progressing.

Big_Red