LBZ conversion starts then dies

[Troy Gards]

Hi All EFILive users.
I require some help with a starting issue I have with my LBZ conversion into a Aussie Nissan Patrol. ( Yes another Patrol & Aussie).
I have got the engine running but have got an issue with having to wait at least 12 seconds or more before the engine fire up properly & can drive away. It is like there is a extended wait to start feature there.

The engine will fire when the key is started straight away but then die's. It's as though it fires on rail pressure then die's. Try to start again and it is very sluggish to fire & takes some time before you can drive it.

Set up of the engine is as follows.
-Only has engine & trans Controllers.
-Wiring designed by myself.
-Have disabled the Vats (I think)
-Disable EGR (I think)
- Haven't use the ECM relay circuit to power up the ECM, have used the Nissan powering system

This is the first Conversion I have done & if anyone is willing to release info that could help me with this issue, I will be much appreciated.

If you want to PM info the will be appreciated also.

Regards Gards

[GMPX]

If VATS wasn't disabled I would suggest it would not even run at all.
I don't know what your issue might be but have you checked if there is any DTC's getting stored?

[Troy Gards]

I have checked & there is some DTC's stored.
At present, I don't have them with me. The car is 250km away at the moment.
I do know though once I have the car running, I can clear all the codes & nothing else shows up.
Go & start the engine again & DTC's come up again.
I do have to work through the codes when I down at the car next week & will take note of what they are.
I have been reading some forums that have got a symptom close to what I have & it leads to the ECM relay circuit. This is one relay that I DO NOT have wired up. I am going to try with the relay in the harness & see how it goes.

Thank you for the help.

[Troy Gards]

Hi guys

Finally got the DTC's
As Follows

Diagnostic Trouble Codes
P2510 ECM/PCM Power Relay Sense Circuit Range/Performance EPA Pending
U0101 Lost Communication With TCM EPA Pending
P0045 Turbo/Super Charger Boost Control Solenoid Circuit EPA Pending
P0107 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Circuit Low EPA Pending
P0113 Intake Air Temperature (IAT) Sensor Circuit High EPA Pending
P0700 Transmission Control Module (TCM) Requested MIL Illumination EPA Pending
P0646 A/C Clutch Relay Control Circuit Low P
P0532 Air Conditioning (A/C) Refrigerant Pressure Sensor Circuit Low Voltage P
P0102 Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Circuit Low P
P2122 Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) Sensor 1 Circuit Low Voltage H
P2127 Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) Sensor 2 Circuit Low Voltage H
P0107 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Circuit Low MH :bad:
P0463 Fuel Level Sensor 1 Circuit High Voltage P
U0106 Lost Communication With Glow Plug Control Module P
U0101 Lost Communication With TCM MH :bad:
P0700 Transmission Control Module (TCM) Requested MIL Illumination H
P0381 Wait to Start Lamp Control Circuit PHC
P2510 ECM/PCM Power Relay Sense Circuit Range/Performance MPHC :bad:
P0522 Engine Oil Pressure (EOP) Sensor/Switch Circuit Low Voltage H
P0827 Up and Down Shift Switch Circuit Low PHC

If anyone can make heads or tails of these, it would be much appreciated.
Once I have the engine running, I can clear all the codes & the engine light goes out & car drives normally.

I have a feeling it may have something to do with the ECM power relay sense circuit, but I don't know what to do to fix this Code.
I have temp wired in a relay using the ECM relay wire pin 19 C2 & still have no luck.

The only other thing that may be an issue is that the O ign power should be live in Acc/Run/Start on the key,
I have only got power to this in run/start.
Could this cause any prob's do you think?
Will post up conclusion of what I find if get there.

Kind Regards
Gards

[THEFERMANATOR]

You have a problem with the igntion 1 relay I believe it is. The ECM commands this relay on, and if it doesn't you will get those ECM/PCM power relay sense circuit codes. And if everything doesn't power up in sequence, you will also get the communication error codes.

[Troy Gards]

Thanks Ferm

Mate I temp wired in the ECM relay but didn't have it switching the power to Ign1 (used what I had wire with the Patrol) & this didn't change anything.
I have been looking at the Ign0 power & how it is live in Acc/Run/ start. With the harness, this is not wired this way. The power is live only when in Run/Start.
C
Do you think this may have something to do with the power up sequence of the ECM.
The other thing is, on another forum, a guy has found info saying that the code could also be affecting the power down sequence of the ECM.
I think I might have to look at the way I am powering up the ECM again.

I really do thank all of those who are helping with ideas. I do know that we will conquer this problem.
I know it is hard for you guys in the US. not know how the wiring is on the car in Aus.
Thank you again

Regards Gards

[THEFERMANATOR]

I doubt having the IGN0 not on during acc is affecting anything. The only way that could be a problem was if it was in a truck and the BCM was controlling things. It still sounds like a problem with the power up and down sequence as I know the DURABURB guys ran into this early on with LBZ swaps.

[Troy Gards]

Tongue in cheek, is there any way that I may be able to get a diagram on how the Duraburbs have wired in the power.
Also, do you know what the sequence is for power up & down the ECM for the LBZ.
I am going to have a closer look at the power supply for the ECM & see if there is anything that I may have over looked.
Thank you Ferm
You are being very helpfully in trying to nut out this problem.

Regards
Gards

[Troy Gards]

Hi Guys

Just thought that I might post what wires I have removed from the ECM plugs to see if there is an issue with that.

As follows, C2 plug
13- a/c low ref
18- pto cont
22- chmsl+
24- gen sig 2
27- 5v ref a/c
31- a/c comp
34- low ref
35- a/c refr sig
36- fuel lev sig
42- veh spd sig
50- fuel lev sig
54- veh spd sig

Floowing is C1 plug
85- WIF
84- back up v
82-axle sig
31- eng shut off
32- cpp sw sig
8- pto sig
60- pto on sw sig
9- oil level sw
58- coolant lev sig
57-4wd low sig

All the power wires are power in the run & start position.
All earth wires that remain are earth to body/ engine & battery where they can.

I am still trying to find info on how the power up sequence & power down sequence works in the ECM.
I can change the wiring power system if I have got this wrong.

Cheers for the help

[Troy Gards]

Sorry just another quick question.

Could there be a fault in the ECM that may be causing these codes.?
With the DTC's active, can I change the ECM with another 1 to see if the DTC's are still there or could this damage the next ECM?

Cheers

[sanbarshop]

I ran into a similar problem with a 2009 lmm/4l85e swap out of an express van to a 03 Hummer H2. The glow plug controller, and TCM communicate with the ECM through the EBCM. I haven't driven it yet as I'm currently in the wiring harness modification stage, and not sure if I,m going to run the ABS, and SRS system with the Hummer control system or the van's system. I temporarily jumped the communication wire's at the EBCM connector and corrected the loss of communication codes. I'm not sure if the LBZ runs the communication network through the ABS module or not, but after I jumped the pins at the connector throttle response was much crisper.

Sam

[THEFERMANATOR]

LBZ only runs the high speed LAN through the ECM, TCM, GPCM, and BCM. It wasn't until mid year 07 for the LMM they ran the high speed LAN throughout the whole truck.

[DURAtotheMAX]

LBZ only runs the high speed LAN through the ECM, TCM, GPCM, and BCM. It wasn't until mid year 07 for the LMM they ran the high speed LAN throughout the whole truck.

no....no....NO!!!!!! OMG how many times do I have to explain this. I dont know why I even bother anymore.

LBZ used high speed for ECM, TCM, GPCM only. THATS IT!!!!!!! NOT THE BCM, NOT THE ABS, NOT ANYWHERE ELSE.

LBZ ECM and LBZ Allison TCM speak both GMLAN and Class 2. They speak Class 2 to the body and everything else, and GMLAN amongst themselves.

Just look at the freaking schematics. You dont have to know anything about GMLAN or Class 2 databusses to understand this, its not complicated. All you have to do is know how to read a simple basic electrical schematic.

[DURAtotheMAX]

I ran into a similar problem with a 2009 lmm/4l85e swap out of an express van to a 03 Hummer H2. The glow plug controller, and TCM communicate with the ECM through the EBCM. I haven't driven it yet as I'm currently in the wiring harness modification stage, and not sure if I,m going to run the ABS, and SRS system with the Hummer control system or the van's system. I temporarily jumped the communication wire's at the EBCM connector and corrected the loss of communication codes. I'm not sure if the LBZ runs the communication network through the ABS module or not, but after I jumped the pins at the connector throttle response was much crisper.

Sam

Use an LBZ ECM. Thats the only way you're going to keep the gauges, cruise control, AC, and all that stuff working.

You're gonna have to make some modifications to the LMM van harness to work with an LBZ ECM. IE, change some pins around on the ECM connectors and add a couple extra wires. But thats the ONLY way to do it correctly.

[THEFERMANATOR]

no....no....NO!!!!!! OMG how many times do I have to explain this. I dont know why I even bother anymore.

LBZ used high speed for ECM, TCM, GPCM only. THATS IT!!!!!!! NOT THE BCM, NOT THE ABS, NOT ANYWHERE ELSE.

LBZ ECM and LBZ Allison TCM speak both GMLAN and Class 2. They speak Class 2 to the body and everything else, and GMLAN amongst themselves.

Just look at the freaking schematics. You dont have to know anything about GMLAN or Class 2 databusses to understand this, its not complicated. All you have to do is know how to read a simple basic electrical schematic.

I thought there was a connection to the BCM for the high speed bus.

[sanbarshop]

Use an LBZ ECM. Thats the only way you're going to keep the gauges, cruise control, AC, and all that stuff working.

You're gonna have to make some modifications to the LMM van harness to work with an LBZ ECM. IE, change some pins around on the ECM connectors and add a couple extra wires. But thats the ONLY way to do it correctly.

It's taken awhile to get back on this project. I have mapped out the changes to the ECM connectors in order to use the LBZ ECM. My question now is will the LBZ ECM communicate with the T42 for use with the 4L85E transmission?

[THEFERMANATOR]

It's taken awhile to get back on this project. I have mapped out the changes to the ECM connectors in order to use the LBZ ECM. My question now is will the LBZ ECM communicate with the T42 for use with the 4L85E transmission?

You have to repin it for a VAN, and flash it with a VAN calibration to use the T42 TCM.

[DURAtotheMAX]

Im pretty sure the LBZ ECM OS will work fine with the van T42.

[Cummins666]

Do you happen to.have the lbz standalone pinout?