LS1 tune - MAFT and COS questions

[RPE-tuning]

Hello fellows,

I'm currently tuning my first LS1 engined car. Its this one-tonner ute:
http://s3.postimg.org/phygqcrof/IMG_20150502_152636.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/phygqcrof/)

The car has been tuned before and Ive checked the tune. Its knocking a bit but doing good power on the dyno ... around 340hp with extractors.

So this car will get a 427 engine, forged, cam, ls3 heads, ported and ITBs. Engine is pretty much ready, waiting to bolt the head and ITBs.

My plan for this car is do a MAFT procedure with MAF plugged, then go SD, then go COS5 then replace stock engine with sick one and final tune.

I'm having issues with the MAFT...I've copied the calc pid to the correct location but can't find the PIDs on the scan tool. What have I done wrong?
I only have the dyno WBO2 so I thought about using LTFT on part load (MAFT) and then tune the PE independently with the dyno WB. Is this possible? Do I need to change the calc PIDs?

About the COS upgrade, my OS is 9381344 which is not upgradable to COS5. I believe I have to get the 12212156 (from tune website) and then I can go COS5 and copy the tables and tune it. Is this correct?

Kind regards and greatly appreciated for your help.
Paulo

[joecar]

Hi Paulo,


...
I'm having issues with the MAFT...I've copied the calc pid to the correct location but can't find the PIDs on the scan tool. What have I done wrong?
I only have the dyno WBO2 so I thought about using LTFT on part load (MAFT) and then tune the PE independently with the dyno WB. Is this possible? Do I need to change the calc PIDs?

The Calc.MAFT procedure's calculation of the MAF table can only be done if the pid GM.VETABLE_DMA is supported by the OS... 12212156 does support it, but 9381344 does not.

For dyno tuning, I would tailor the Calc.MAFT/Calc.VET procedures to use wideband only (i.e. use wideband-only to correct VE table and calculate a new MAF from it)(i.e. this then becomes much like AutoVE but with better BEN pid), this is done by editing the calc_pids.txt file (I can show you how).


About the COS upgrade, my OS is 9381344 which is not upgradable to COS5. I believe I have to get the 12212156 (from tune website) and then I can go COS5 and copy the tables and tune it. Is this correct?Yes, correct, if the PCM supports 12212156 (i.e. 0411 PCM, 512KB).

www.tunefiledepot.com 2002 Camaro 5.7L (choose automatic or manual to match the transmission in your 1T ute).

[RPE-tuning]

Thanks, as always you r the MAN!

So my ECU doesn't have GM.VETABLE_DMA but I think I can still go SD and tune the VE table correct? Or maybe go straight to 12212156 and then do MAFT and correct MAF as well.

The issue is I don't have an analog output to connect to the Flashscan. I was thinking I could use LTFT (NBO2) for most of the fuel map and get my corrections from there and then just use the dyno wideband and manually change the high load/ PE maps...how does that sound?

My biggest problem now is that I am looking for the PIDs on the default metric group and I can't find most of them...am I looking in the wrong place?

Regards,
Paulo

[joecar]

OS 9381344 does not have the pid GM.VETABLE_DMA (if you try logging it, it won't log).

You could copy the tables that are different from your 9381344 file to a 12212156 file... you have to go thru all the tables (it's tedious, but with 12212156 you get more tables, and you get an easy jumping point to COS5.

Your wideband doesn't have a output that you could feed into your V2...? For dyno tuning you really need a wideband (for the WOT pulls).

On the PIDs tab uncheck Supported, then connect to PCM and do Info->Validate Pids.

[darcy]

So this car will get a 427 engine, forged, cam, ls3 heads, ported and ITBs. Engine is pretty much ready, waiting to bolt the head and ITBs.

My plan for this car is do a MAFT procedure with MAF plugged, then go SD, then go COS5 then replace stock engine with sick one and final tune.


What's the point in all the tuning before the new motor goes in? It will all be lost on the new motor.

Thats a really unusual OS to be running for that vehicle. The one tonner must be at least a VY, but that OS is back from VT series.
Upgrade it to 12225074 and then to COS. Thats the factory OS of all LS1 in VX-VY. You'l readily find facroty tunes to start form on tunefiledepot.

Why not just dial the whole lot in on the dyno with wideband?

[joecar]

I think he's trying to practice.

[RPE-tuning]

Thanks both of you. Managed to select all the PIDs now (thx joecar for the tip). One weird thing was that I managed to log the GM.VETABLE_DMA Pid.

I attached the log file - 18369 . Hopefully you may have a look and see if I am correct?

I did not disable the MAF so thats probably why I'm not logging MAFT...

I am going to full flash the 12225074 stock LS1 file like darcy suggested and tune it using the MAFT procedure.

Thanks again
Paulo

[joecar]

Open your log file and tune file side-by-side, and check that GM.VETABLE_DMA shows values from your B0101 VE table (use pid linking from scantool to tunetool).

[RPE-tuning]

Hey joecar,

Sorry to take so long. I have tested it and I can see the cells moving and they have the same value as the datalog (approximate). the value is not exactly the same but I believe that may be cause by the interpolation GM.

Apparantly GM.VETABLE_DMA Pid is available on this OS. Is this correct?

Thanks,
Paulo

[joecar]

Hey joecar,

Sorry to take so long. I have tested it and I can see the cells moving and they have the same value as the datalog (approximate). the value is not exactly the same but I believe that may be cause by the interpolation GM.

Apparantly GM.VETABLE_DMA Pid is available on this OS. Is this correct?

Thanks,
PauloNo worries (take your time).

Interpolation (between cells) and/or discretization error (binary representation) will cause values to be off by a small amount... post log/tune files.

If this pid is available on this OS (I don't know all which OS's it has been implemented for) then it make things simple.

[bimbleuk]

12225074 is the OS I use as it has Lean Cruise and doesn't need a clutch switch etc. to enable the Throttle Follower/Cracker tables as my Aus sourced engine didn't have that provision in the wiring loom (or secondary O2 sensors and most of the emission stuff!). It has GM.VETABLE_DMA as I used it to create my Alpha-N table when I went ITB and COS5.

[RPE-tuning]

Hey joecar,

Here are the tune and log files.1839618397

Note:I haven't disabled CAT protection, DFCO or changed O2 switch points as suggested on the Calc VET Summary notes - can this be an issue?
After making the changes above, should I bring them back to std after the MAFT procedure?

I have made the filter and applied it to the data. Then I when I try to make a new Map (Ctrl + Enter) it says that CALC.SELBEN is not currently valid...do you know why this is?

Thanks! Your help is greatly appreciated.
Paulo

[joecar]

...
Note:I haven't disabled CAT protection, DFCO or changed O2 switch points as suggested on the Calc VET Summary notes - can this be an issue?
After making the changes above, should I bring them back to std after the MAFT procedure?

They help the logged data to be better (resulting in better tuning)... but it is still ok to have them enabled.


I have made the filter and applied it to the data. Then I when I try to make a new Map (Ctrl + Enter) it says that CALC.SELBEN is not currently valid...do you know why this is?
...On the PIDs tab, on the pid CALC.SELBEN, do rightclick->More Info, you will see it mentioning other dependent pids which need to be selected also.

[RPE-tuning]

Joecar,

So I've noticed my mistake, there where a few PIds missing that wouldn't allow me to get the Calc.Selben.

The only PID that has a cross (invalid) is the Dynamic Air Temp - Dynairtmp_dma. Any ideas of why it is so?

Other than that I think Im ready for another log session.

Thanks,
Paulo

[darcy]

Dynamic Air Temp is not available in this OS. You'll need to use the aternative calc_pids.txt file that has a calculation to get around this.

OR, just grab a standard VX/VY tune, change the injector data to suit the smaller VT injectors, and flash that in. It will support the Dynamic air temp.

[joecar]

The alternative calc_pids.txt that darcy mentions defines the pid CALC.DAT in terms of the pid CALC.B4901 which you have to compare with your B4901 table (and edit if different).

( post #1 of the Calc.VET thread explains this in detail )

[RPE-tuning]

Hi joecar,

I'm still having some issues. My PIDs are good (calculated dynair and appropriate calc.pid) and I made a log. However when I try to make the maps for maf correction and selben (ltft), as soon as I apply the filters, all values disappear.
Furthermore, the Maf correction values don't look very good.

I was wondering if you could have a look at my log and check if it is MAFT ready.18506

Secondly, I would like to describe my maps to understand if the problem is there or not:
MAFT
Data: Calculated MAF, BEN corrected
Column: Mass Air Flow Raw Frequency
Row: RPM


Selben LTFT
Data: BEN from LTFT
Column: Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure
Row: RPM

PS - I didn't use the lambda filter as I don't have lambda connected. Still all the values disappear when I apply the filter.
PS2 - The logging session wasn't very long <10mins because it was just a test.

Thanks for your help yet again.
Paulo

[joecar]

If you don't have wideband connected, then in the log we can only correct the portions where CALC.CL = 1.

From the log I see a MAF DTC, this means you are correcting the VE and calculating the MAF, is this correct...?

For correcting the VE:
your transient filter has to also exclude frames which have CALC.CL not equal to 1; your log file has CL = 1 throughout, so you're ok.

If you are correcting the MAF
log file is missing the pid GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA, this causes CALC.DAT to be zero; if the OS does not support the pid GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA, we can either use SAE.IAT (less accurate) or use table B4901 to calculate DAT (more accurate). (DAT = dynamic air temperature)

The maps you should be using are correct... the CALC.MAFT map will have zeros because CALC.DAT is zero (i.e. so you have to log GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA, or use SAE.IAT in the calculation of CALC.MAFT, or use table B4901 to calculate CALC.DAT from SAE.IAT and SAE.ECT.

Post screenshots of your maps (see this: Hosting-an-Image (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?3064-Hosting-an-Image)).