New tuner need help with PID's

[jmsmotorsport]

I have gathered up all the Calc VE tutorials, Firstly I added the new PID's to the config file but when I went to open the scan part I got a error regarding the displacement LTFTBEN VE PID, it mentioned changing (displacement) to (5.669) tries this still an error? So I got the updated config file from the CALC.VE thread and went ahead into scan software to select the PID's required some were fine others had red crosses tried right click more info but didn't give any info of other PID's required? I also couldn't find some of the PID's such as Dynamic Air Temperature? Need all the help I can get, slowly getting my head around what the PID's do etc but not sure how to write them into the config file to get the information needed.

[joecar]

What OS are you using (does it support the pid GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA)...?

Are you reading pOst #1 of Calc.VET thread (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-(in-single-log))...?

Post some screenshots.

What year/model/vehicle are you tuning...?

[jmsmotorsport]

When you say operating system are you talking efi live system or vehicle system. Car is a VZ 2004 SS Commodore LS1. I had a thought do I have to be plugged into the car to set all the PID's? Will get screen shots when I have some time this afternoon. Thanks for your help. I started first with PDF tutorial but am now following that thread you linked.

[joecar]

OS = PCM's operating system (has a GM id number)(not to be confused with PCM part number).

You can select pids offline and then connect to vehicle, but the first time you connect you should go Info->Validate Pids.

[jmsmotorsport]

Thanks will give this a try when I get back near the car, having trouble with my AEM wideband not being found going through the thread about it now think I have it worked out. blue wire (serial) to black wire pin one of RJ11 plug and earth to white wire pin 5 on RJ11 sound right I think I currently have it around the other way.

[jmsmotorsport]

Turns out had wiring wrong, I am getting the AFR reading but when logging it doesn't display anything on the PID? Anyone have a solution to this issue?

[jmsmotorsport]

Joe, here is my operating system 12592433, used the other config.txt file and I have all PID's except all the CALC ones? Where are they and why cant I find them in my PID list am I missing something?

[joecar]

Are you using V7 scantool or V8 scantool...?

Are you talking about V7 pid list or V8 pidlist...?

Which config.txt file (post it here)...?

[joecar]

Turns out had wiring wrong, I am getting the AFR reading but when logging it doesn't display anything on the PID? Anyone have a solution to this issue?Are you looking at the pids EXT.WO2xxx...?

[jmsmotorsport]

I think I have sorted the W02 issue with a patch update, Im looking at the PID's in V7 Scantool. Using this config file

https://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14797&d=1364789407

Its the second lot in the first post.

https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-A-New-Twist-on-CALC.-VE-Table..Computing-the-Entire-VE-Table.&p=135867&viewfull=1#post135867

[joecar]

So your EXT.WO2LAM1 pid shows a sensible value...?

Post a log file.

[jmsmotorsport]

Looks like I have got somewhere Joe, restarted the laptop and now all the CALC.PIDs are showing up. Now to continue on with the tutorial. How do I go about uploading a log file?

[joecar]

See post #2 here: Hosting-an-Image&p=38410&viewfull=1#post38410 (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?3064-Hosting-an-Image&p=38410&viewfull=1#post38410)

If you want to post log file and/or tune file, start at point 5.

[jmsmotorsport]

Thanks mate, just been informed the car I'm tuning has run out of rego so can't go get a new log with my new found pid's. Need a dyno but big $$. I am following the tutorial off a idle/static rev log just to work my way through it so it's ready when I can get a log out on the road. Having trouble in the tut it says to apply the filter to a map, I have added all the filters, but it doesn't say which map to load, I'm guessing it's the calc VE, BEN corrected (g*K/kPa) Parasmeter? The other wo2 issue has been fixed showing correct AFR readings and now passing through to computer. Can you point me in the right direction for spark timing tutorials also. done a search not a whole lot comes up about WOT and part throttle, only shawns idle tips and tricks

[joecar]

Both maps, the CALC.VET VE-like map and the CALC.SELBEN MAF-like map...

when you enable the transient filter, it applies to all maps and to the log chart display.

[joecar]

Spark is difficult without a dyno session... for now set spark to stock OEM... (also note that LSx heads are a fast burn design, so they don't need much ignition advance, usually no more than 24° at WOT is sufficient and safe (going higher gains only insignificant torque and increases combustion chamber temps and knock ability).

[jmsmotorsport]

Thanks joe, awesome help. If I run into any more snags I will post them on here. Will get screen shots also to make it easier to work out what I'm on about. Thanks for your help.

[jmsmotorsport]

Joe have managed to create the maps but instead of showing values across top and along left hand side all I get is question marks?

[joecar]

Joe have managed to create the maps but instead of showing values across top and along left hand side all I get is question marks?

Post screenshots (see post #10 here: Hosting-an-Image (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?3064-Hosting-an-Image))

do you have a log...?

[jmsmotorsport]

Joe,

Sorted the question marks out forgot to paste labels, so I have copied the new Calculated VET map and the following images are what I have come up with.

I have attached a image of the VET.MAP from the scan tool after applying the filter, I then copied this with labels to my B0101 table, as you can see in the image it doesn't look right?

The last image is the MAF map? everything is just a 1? Thanks for your help, I try to work it out while I wait for your replies but this has me stumped as to why my B0101 looks like it does. I have also attached my log file. My W02 is at the end of the exhaust using a Innovate motorsports clamp as its a friends car and he doesn't have a welded bung. I will continue to keep reading through the 60+ pages of info in the CALC.Vet tutorial thread.

[joecar]

Ok, calculated VE map looks much better...

in the two scantool maps, for each map, in the map properties goto the Data tab, and set Precision to 4.


You need to use Metric:

- in scantool goto PIDs tab, click twice on Units column (to sort by Unit), and select all the non-Transmission "kPa,psi" rows (click on the first row in a group, then do SHIFT-click on the last row in a group), and on the selection go rightclick->Metric; restart the scantool.

- in tunetool, go Edit->Configure Display Units, click twice on the Data Units column (to sort by it), and select all the engine segment "psi" rows (click on first, SHIFT-click on last), and on the selection go rightclick->Data Value Units->Metric; then repeat for each of the columns Col Units and Row units; click Ok; restart the tunetool.

[joecar]

...

My W02 is at the end of the exhaust using a Innovate motorsports clamp as its a friends car and he doesn't have a welded bung. I will continue to keep reading through the 60+ pages of info in the CALC.Vet tutorial thread.


No good (for several reasons: catalysts; exhaust gases have cooled to much; need long cables to reach tailpipe). Innovate has a narrowband output so you can install the wideband sensor in place of the NBO2 sensor, and wire the signal and signal return to NBO2 signal hi and NBO2 signal lo.

The Calc.VET tutorial consists of post #1 of the Calc.VET thread, and any links it contains (i.e. it points you to several other places that show you how to do things)... so it is far fewer pages than what you said (the remaining posts in the Calc.VET thread are just discussion... post #1 has been updated to contain all the relevant information).

[jmsmotorsport]

Thanks will get it all changed to metric. You say the Calculated map looks better? Do I need to smooth it out? I was worried with the excessive high number in red?

I had heard that about using the tailpipe, but looking at my commanded to actual at steady idle and parts of my wot runs was pretty close so didn't think much of it. The only problem there is my wide and is AEM I'm guessing no narrowband output? Only the clamp itself is by innovate.

Also is there a PDF version of the CALC.VET tutorial that goes into the detail like the Auto.VE one?

[jmsmotorsport]

I have attached another log with the MAF curve changed and the new VE Map smoothed, I am going to see if I can get a bung welded to the exhaust for a better Wo2 reading. I have looked at my log and some of my AFR's are a fair bit off? at 6000rpm WOT commanded 12.64 actual 13.30 this goes up to 14.50 at 6100rpm, also at 900rpm WOT got commanded 12.05 actual 15.30? is this VE or MAF. Have had some trouble with cold idle. I appreciate your help.

[joecar]

Thanks will get it all changed to metric. You say the Calculated map looks better? Do I need to smooth it out? I was worried with the excessive high number in red? Do just minimal smoothing, flatten out that red spike, but leave most of map as is.


Also is there a PDF version of the CALC.VET tutorial that goes into the detail like the Auto.VE one?Not yet (I'm working on something)... in the meantime you could print post #1 to pdf.

[joecar]

I have attached another log with the MAF curve changed and the new VE Map smoothed, I am going to see if I can get a bung welded to the exhaust for a better Wo2 reading. I have looked at my log and some of my AFR's are a fair bit off? at 6000rpm WOT commanded 12.64 actual 13.30 this goes up to 14.50 at 6100rpm, also at 900rpm WOT got commanded 12.05 actual 15.30? is this VE or MAF. Have had some trouble with cold idle. I appreciate your help.Too many pid channels (26), this gives you less data per time (i.e. only 5 frames/s vs 10 frames/s)... you need to hae no more than 24 pid channels (see bottom of PIDs tab or Data tab)...

delete the pid GM.AFR... this is not a useful pid since it can be misleading, and you should be tuning using EQR (GM.EQIVRATIO) and/or Lambda (EXT.WO2LAM1).

During throttle maneuver, your CALC.WO2BEN (which is GM.EUIVRATIO * EXT.WO2LAM1) ranges from 0.99 to 1.01... this is very good.

[jmsmotorsport]

Ok I will change these few things and do some manual smoothing of the spikes, I did notice it was at 26 and that for some reason has doubled up the CALC Pids, unsure why. The car is feeling a lot better apart from a little idle stall problem when cold, the lean out up top and some knock causing retardation.

[jmsmotorsport]

Joe,

Was just wondering if there was a listing anywhere of what the main tables do eg: MAF Table - to change AFR @ WOT do we increase or decrease the numbers in the MAF Table? and in the B0101 VE Table - do we increase the numbers to lean out AFR or Decrease? Probably sounds stupid but knowing this will improve my understanding of what i am actually changing by altering these numbers. This will help me smooth my tune and fix issues like leaning out at 6000rpm WOT - I will know to find either the MAF freq at the time it happens and adjust or if tuing VE the Kpa and RPM. Hope it makes sense.

[joecar]

MAF and VE: these are used to calculate cylinder airmass.

CL (trimming to stoich) and Fueling Tables (PE, COTP, EPM, PPM): these determine fuelmass based on cylinder airmass.

So if calculated airmass increases then fuelmass increases based on fueling tables.

The trick is to have airmass be correctly modeling actual airmass...

i.e. first get VE and MAF correct, then select fueling EQR (avoid using AFR, other than for setting stoich AFR in B3601).

Of course, IFR table must match injector actual flowrate, actual rail pressure, and whether FPR is MAP-referenced or not (i.e. IFR sloped or flat).



More info, see post #4 here: Summary-Notes (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)

[joecar]

If you manipulate PE table to achieve some EQR while airmass is incorrect, you are setting the EQR for a very narrow range of conditions, and you will see conditions where fueling will be totally wrong.

If you manipulate VE and/or MAF to achieve some EQR, same thing happens, EQR will be good for a narrow range, and will be wrong for other conditions.



If you first correct VE and MAF, then you simply state what EQR you want in the PE table

( and if your IFR, VE, MAF tables are correct, then you see that EQR in the exhaust gases )

[jmsmotorsport]

Thanks mate that puts it all into perspective, I know how engines work etc but this is all new to me and something I am keen to learn. I will upload another log tomorrow, I feel happy with where it is at across the board. Only issue I am having is from 0 tps to WOT it goes lean and knocks and pulls timing but when it hits around 1800rpm it settles down and is fine, I'm also having a issue with in gear if I give it a blip of throttle moving off it will stall.

[jmsmotorsport]

With EQR while looking at a log am I trying to keep this at 1 at all times?

[joecar]

With EQR while looking at a log am I trying to keep this at 1 at all times?

During CL, commanded EQR is 1, and wideband will show Lambda 1 (see note below) if airmass model is correct.

During PE, commanded EQR is from PE table, e.g. EQR 1.175 for NA (regardless of fuel being run), and wideband will show Lambda 1/1.175 if airmass model is correct.



note: lambda and EQR are related by this: Lambda = 1/EQR.

Also note: make a distinction between commanded EQR (or Lambda) and measured Lambda (or EQR)...

i.e. commanded EQR = 1/(commaned Lambda), and measured Lambda = 1/(measured EQR).

[joecar]

With EQR while looking at a log am I trying to keep this at 1 at all times?

The correction multiplier is:

commanded EQR * measured Lambda


this has been named the "BEN"


you want to keep BEN at 1 at all times.

[jmsmotorsport]

Thanks a lot joe, I would love to have half the knowledge you do. I can't help but notice the Aussie flag as your avatar, are you in Aus or the U.S.

[joecar]

BEN (correction multiplier) is any of these (they are all identical):

commanded EQR * measured Lambda

commanded EQR / measured EQR

measured Lambda / commanded Lambda

1/(commanded Lambda * measured EQR)


With V2 serial comms supported wideband, we use this: GM.EQIVRATIO * EXT.WO2LAM1

[jmsmotorsport]

Here is a copy of my latest log and the tune with the ve and maf corrected off the log. let me know what you think, and any advice on what to do next if any. Thanks alot

[joecar]

Here is a copy of my latest log and the tune with the ve and maf corrected off the log. let me know what you think, and any advice on what to do next if any. Thanks alotThis log is quite good...

GM.DYNCYLAIR_DMA, GM.CYLAIR, CALC.CYLAIR all overlap/track each other very closely (VE and MAF are in agreement);

LTFTBEN during CL is close to 1;

WO2BEN during OL is so close to 1;

MAF ranges all the way up (MAF is clean, plumbing is free);

DAT moves closer to IAT over time during increased throttle, and moves closer to ECT over time during reduced throttle;

zero knock at significant load (I know the KS work because I see a sprious know event in the log);



I would set PE B3618 to 1.175-1.185 all across.

Make sure to set D0930-2 below D0915-7.

Set D0960-2 to 100% all across.

[jmsmotorsport]

Thanks joe car is going very well, quite happy I am going to move my wo2 into the extractors tomorrow and get it smoothed out even closer. Are you able to look at my other post regarding the strange thing happening with my idle issue.
When talking D0930 - 2 is that tables D0930, D0931 & D0932?

[jmsmotorsport]

Joe what would cause the car to have 3 degrees of Knock present and even when I go back to cruise it seems to be stuck at 3? You say the log looks good but I wouldn't have thought my VE map would be so spikey and uneven, can you explain this to me? If I wanted to go to a MAFless tune would I just use the Auto VE process?

[Mouth]

18460

I been having issue with getting my AFR connected for DATA Logging. Its a AEM 41-4900. Can any one help please.

[joecar]

Thanks joe car is going very well, quite happy I am going to move my wo2 into the extractors tomorrow and get it smoothed out even closer. Are you able to look at my other post regarding the strange thing happening with my idle issue.
When talking D0930 - 2 is that tables D0930, D0931 & D0932?I'll take a look...

[joecar]

Joe what would cause the car to have 3 degrees of Knock present and even when I go back to cruise it seems to be stuck at 3? You say the log looks good but I wouldn't have thought my VE map would be so spikey and uneven, can you explain this to me? If I wanted to go to a MAFless tune would I just use the Auto VE process?Your VE is not spikey...

if you smooth those minor bumps and redo relog/reapply the map, you will see those bumps reappear... they do have some noise, but they are what the engine is doing.

[joecar]

18460

I been having issue with getting my AFR connected for DATA Logging. Its a AEM 41-4900. Can any one help please.

What is the issue...?




# ================================================== ============================
# File details
# ------------
#
# This section defines various details about the file format.

*FILE

#Parameter Value Description
#---------- ---------------- ---------------------------------------------------
VERSION 7.1.1 File version
DECSEP . Decimal separator used in this file



# ================================================== ============================
# Units
# -------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *UNITS section

*UNITS

#Code System Abbr Description
#----------- ---------- ------------ ---------------------------------------------------------
>>> delete this line:
AFR_AUEGO1 W02-Analog "AFR_AUEGO1" "AFR_AUEGO"

# ================================================== ============================
# Add slot definitions here
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on "SLOT" formats
#
#Units Low High Fmt Expression
#------------ ------------- ------------- ---- --------------------------------------------------------------
*CLC-00-001
AFR 8.5 18.0 .2 ({EXT.AD1}*2.3750)+7.3125
>>> add a blank line here:
# ================================================== ============================
*PRN - Parameter Reference Numbers
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *PRN section
#
#Code PRN SLOT Units System Description
#------------------------- ---- --------------- ------------- ---------------- ------------------------------------------
>>> change "AFR,V" to "AFR":
CALC.AFR_AEUGO1 F001 CLC-00-001 "AFR,V" "W02-Analog" "AFR_AEUGO"
>>> add at least 2 blank lines here:

[Mouth]

joecar

It's not showing up in PID list to be selected. I save in the 7.5v user configuration

[joecar]

Does the AEM UEGO 41-4900 have a serial comms output...?



It's not showing up in PID list to be selected. I save in the 7.5v user configuration

Post your current calc_pids.txt file.

In the scantool, on the pids tab, click twice on the column heading "Parameter" (i.e. the right most column)(on it's heading/title) to sort the pid list by this column... then scroll down while looking at this column until you see your calc pid...

then on this pid do rightclick->More Info to see what other pids you may need to select.

[joecar]

Does the AEM UEGO 41-4900 have a serial comms output...?


If you can get it connected to V2 using serial comms, you will be better off (for a number of reasons):



V2 serial/digital input (AEM):
showthread.php?15748-AEM-compatibility (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15748-AEM-compatibility)
showthread.php?16636-Installing-an-AEM-Wide-Band-02-and-logging-afr (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16636-Installing-an-AEM-Wide-Band-02-and-logging-afr)
showthread.php?16904-AEM-EUGO-Lambda-W-B-how-to-connect-to-Flashscan-V2 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16904-AEM-EUGO-Lambda-W-B-how-to-connect-to-Flashscan-V2&p=151205#post151205)

[Mouth]

joecar,

No it do not have a serial comms

[jmsmotorsport]

Your VE is not spikey...

if you smooth those minor bumps and redo relog/reapply the map, you will see those bumps reappear... they do have some noise, but they are what the engine is doing.

That's what I wanted to hear thanks mate just need reassurance. Your a great resource to this forum.

[jmsmotorsport]

joecar,

No it do not have a serial comms

Can you post a link to your specific AEM wideband?

[joecar]

#------------ ------------- ------------- ---- --------------------------------------------------------------
*CLC-00-001
AFR 8.5 18.0 .2 ({EXT.AD1}*2.3750)+7.3125

^ delete the space character from in front of AFR.


But this calc_pids.txt works, I see the pid in my scantool.

[Mouth]

http://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=products/wideband-uego-air-fuel-controllers/wideband-failsafe-gauge

[Mouth]

In what folder are u saving it in. My V2 is connected, Im looking under the WO2-Analog system. I been working on this all night I'm beat. lol

18473 Latest version.

[joecar]

Rename it to calc_pids.txt and move it to the following folder:

WinXP: My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration
Win7/8: Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration

[jmsmotorsport]

Are you sure that doesn't have a extra wire for serial output? if it can log data to its own software I would think AEM would use a digital output? Mine is a AEM and it is a blue wire?

[Mouth]

Got it , Thanks for your patients. When I get home from work at the end of the week I'm going try it out then