5.3 with LS6 intake/injectors and COS3 2bar MAFless

[blindawg]

Hello all,

I have a 5.3 with an LS6 intake and injectors on it running COS3 2bar MAFless, and its in an 04 Colorado. I copied over the values for the injector tables from a stock zO6 tune, and the truck runs like crap if I ease into the throttle its not bad, but if I do anymore than ease into it, it is somewhat jerky and lacks power something furious.

before I made the changes stated above, it had the factory truck Injector values in the tables and ran decent, but wasn't at full power. I don't have my WB installed yet, or a log for you guys, but it has to be something simple, right? I'm assuming its running too fat with the LS6 values, and might be a little lean with the truck values, especially at higher RPM beings it is only one value and referenced to vacuum on the truck intake.

Thanks,
Branden

[joecar]

Hi Branden,

Your IFR table is flat (using LS6 manvac=zero cell)...

you might have injectors other than you think.

Post logs of each IFR table (GM.IBPW1/2 and CALC.INJDC1/2).

[blindawg]

Hi joecar,

I'm not sure what you're saying with your first statement. I think I do, but I think you're understaning my first post wrong. (Can't blame ya there. I just re-read it and it's kind of a mess. Lol)

Anyways, I would agree with you about me having mystery injectors, except I pulled this intake and injector setup straight off the 5.3 I had in my s10 to put it on this motor, and have tried running the same calibration as what the s10 ran with and it creates the problem stated above.
I can't log anything right now, but I'll get you a couple logs asap.

Thanks for the help, as always,
Branden

[ProperTuningOG]

Can you share your tune? The pre change 5.3, the LS6 used and the post swap please.

[blindawg]

LS6 File Used-
18382

LS6 Injector values-
18383

Truck Injector values-
18384

Thanks,
Branden

[ProperTuningOG]

I'll have a look. Where are you located? Can you verify the part numbers on the injectors and the fuel pressure?


Edit - Looking at tune
Is the fuel pressure vacuum referenced?

[blindawg]

North East Kansas.

I need to verify fuel pressure, I was going to do that when I did the logs. Looking like that won't be until tomorrow morning.

No, it's not vacuum ref. It's a returnless, factory car fuel system. If anything I would say my fuel pump is weak because it had a LOT of miles on it, but it runs decent with the truck values so how could that be the problem? (Just thinking out loud.)

Thanks for the help,
Branden

[ProperTuningOG]

I'd verify your pressure and the part numbers on the injectors. Then check the injectors for being plugged. Watch fuel pressure when getting into load.....

Is the engine in the jeep in your pic?

[blindawg]

Injectors should be what I say they are. Only reason I say that with confidence is because it ran fine in my s10 with those values. (Not the truck values) but I'll check for my sanity. Lol.

Nope. That jeep is no longer ours. This is in my 04 colorado.

Thanks,
Branden

[ProperTuningOG]

K. One last question..... Maybe 2.

Whats the reason for the COS3? MAFless the only reason?

Its a manual, right? As in this is original stuff from the colorado minus the intake and injectors.

[blindawg]

Mafless, and a 2 bar map sensor for the turbo that will be going on it once I get the kinks worked out.

It's a t56 manual, and nothing is from the colorado. It was a 4 cyl. Before I swapped the 5.3 in. For what it's worth, I put an LS9 cam in it.

Thanks,
Branden

[ProperTuningOG]

Well there is your problem....... You are going from pig rig to lean with the 5.3 VE table and LS9 cam. You forgot to mention that little diddy.

You need to tune the VE and go from there.

What MAP are you using?

[blindawg]

I understand I need to do some adjustments with the VE table because of the cam, but I can't do that correctly without the correct IFR for my injectors, right?

Also, it runs petty decent with those truck values in the IFR table. So I wouldn't think the VE is too far off. Am I wrong in thinking this? My profile thing may say "senior member", but I'm nowhere close to being that knolagable. Lol.

Thanks,
Branden

[blindawg]

12615136 GM part number for the 2bar MAP I'm using.

[joecar]

North East Kansas.

I need to verify fuel pressure, I was going to do that when I did the logs. Looking like that won't be until tomorrow morning.

No, it's not vacuum ref. It's a returnless, factory car fuel system. If anything I would say my fuel pump is weak because it had a LOT of miles on it, but it runs decent with the truck values so how could that be the problem? (Just thinking out loud.)

Thanks for the help,
BrandenFor un-referenced (returnless) the IFR has to be sloped (same as the LS6 B4001 table).

[joecar]

MAP-referenced FPR: IFR table is flat (same value in all cells since MAP-referenced FPR keeps constant pressure across injector).

un-referenced FPR: IFR table is sloped (slope is squareroot of pressure across injector as VAC (BARO - MAP) increases).

[blindawg]

I understand all that. But where I'm at a loss is why does it run BETTER with the flat IFR table filled with the truck values, than it does with the sloped LS6 values?

[blindawg]

Do I just need to put the LS6 values in and adjust the VE? Is it THAT far off? If so, is using the truck values (which is lower than even the smallest LS6 value) somehow making up for the VE being off?

Thanks,
Branden

[ProperTuningOG]

The LS9 cam is way different than the LM7 cam. Change the injectors values and tune the VE.

[joecar]

+1

compare the cam specs between the LS9 cam and the LM7 cam...

[ProperTuningOG]

LM7
Lift 0.466/0.457
Duration 190/191 degrees
LSA 116 degrees

LS9
Lift 0.558/0.562
Duration 211/230 degrees
LSA 122.5 degrees

[blindawg]

First let me say thanks for the help fellas! I'm learning as I go here.

This is the first vehicle I've ever put a different cam in, so I didn't think the VE table would be effected this much. It makes sense now, but I wouldn't have guessed it to be the reason before.

I think I understand why the truck values "work" while the ls6 values don't with my stock VE map. Please correct me if I'm wrong here-
The pcm uses the values put in the IFR table to determine how long to keep the Injector open, in order to acheive the desired Air Fuel mixture. With me putting a smaller number (the truck values) in the IFR table, it makes the injector stay open longer to achieve the same amount of fuel that a higher flowing injector would in a shorter time.
So by putting the truck values in for the ls6 Injectors, it's adding more fuel, which is making up for the added air the the cam is adding but the PCM isn't accounting for. Does that sound right?

Thanks again fellas, this will be a lesson I won't forget. Lol.
Branden

[joecar]

First let me say thanks for the help fellas! I'm learning as I go here.

This is the first vehicle I've ever put a different cam in, so I didn't think the VE table would be effected this much. It makes sense now, but I wouldn't have guessed it to be the reason before.

I think I understand why the truck values "work" while the ls6 values don't with my stock VE map. Please correct me if I'm wrong here-
The pcm uses the values put in the IFR table to determine how long to keep the Injector open, in order to acheive the desired Air Fuel mixture. With me putting a smaller number (the truck values) in the IFR table, it makes the injector stay open longer to achieve the same amount of fuel that a higher flowing injector would in a shorter time.
So by putting the truck values in for the ls6 Injectors, it's adding more fuel, which is making up for the added air the the cam is adding but the PCM isn't accounting for. Does that sound right?

Thanks again fellas, this will be a lesson I won't forget. Lol.
BrandenYou got it :cheers:

[blindawg]

Thanks Joecar!

That was the question I had pretty much the whole time. Just couldn't get it into a whole though.

Auto VE will be what I need to do to get the VE table adjusted, right?

Thanks,
Branden

[joecar]

Yes, auto VE.



AutoVE:
- disable CL/LTFT,
- disable MAF (make sure MAF DTC is present),
- set PE safely rich to protect motor,
- capture log,
- create a WO2BEN map that matches B0101 (hint: copy the VE table, then in the map row/col properties click Paste Label),
- apply transient filter to map,
- paste-multiply map to B0101.
Note: when MAF DTC is present, spark timing defaults to LO spark table (GM OS only)(COS continues using HO/LO adaptive spark timing).

If you have your wideband connected to V2 using serial comms, then set your BEN pid to "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{EXT.WO2LAM1}".