Bank to Bank Injector Base Pulswidth difference in open loop

[DrX]

Has anyone else seen this in their logs? Or are your Bank 1/Bank 2 identical? I am seeing up to 2msec bank to bank difference in OLSD.

[DrX]

I found an old log on here from back when I was using my Roadrunner PCM and different injectors .... the IBPW values were always identical in that log. That was before the RR went wonky and started doing odd things with fuel and timing. Maybe I have a third bad PCM? (The factory one died during a flash.) Going through a lot of licenses.

Looking at some other logs I posted on here in 2011(https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16822-Strange-injector-and-timing-behaviour&highlight=roadrunner), it appears that the IBPW values have been non-identical at least since I've had the ID1000 injectors. So this has occurred with 2 different PCMs.

[joecar]

Do you have a spare PCM to try on...?

[DrX]

Yes, I have a spare I can license. Will be testing this tomorrow.

[DrX]

Did not bother to license another PCM today because the IBPW values were identical for a change. Only changes to the tune were some VE tweaks.

[joecar]

Did not bother to license another PCM today because the IBPW values were identical for a change. Only changes to the tune were some VE tweaks.Ok, so it is not the PCM...

but somehow it was calculating differently across banks, and now you threatened it with replacement so it is now conforming...

Do you have any NBO2 connected (front or rear) even if not being used...?

[DrX]

you threatened it with replacement so it is now conforming...

Do you have any NBO2 connected (front or rear) even if not being used...?

Fronts are still connected. I have thought about unplugging them.

[joecar]

I'm wondering this: even tho CL/LTFT/trimming is disabled, does PCM find some reason to read the NBO2's (does it jump into some special mode)...?

[DrX]

Well, that didn't last....back to different fueling on each bank with Bank 1 richer than Bank 2 even though the Bank 1 IBPW is usually lower than Bank 2. At WOT with Bank 2 at commanded AFR of 10.84(NGK AFX), Bank 1 is 9's(LC1). Same thing with heat soaked idle... If Bank 1 is at commanded, Bank 2 is way lean or vice versa. Going to have to find some better injectors anyway because the duty cycle is maxed out on the ID 1000s if I shift at higher than stock shift points. I am also exceeding 512g/s on my 50% scaled tune.

You will see in the log that I had to back off the throttle on launch because the transbrake wouldn't release. So, bad day at the track, but at least I collected some data.
Here's the video that syncs with this log file. Stock shift points on this pass. If I run 6500 RPM shift points it shifts at 6800-7000 and crosses the line at the top of second.

https://youtu.be/OGRH92HvPq8

[DrX]

Dropped off the injectors to be tested today.


http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/DSCN1534_zps0gaosjnk.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/DSCN1535_zpsm09zaii1.jpg

100-200 miles and a few passes on these plugs. All on VP110.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/DSCN1521_zps0md9rbnq.jpg (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/TDOC2004/media/DSCN1521_zps0md9rbnq.jpg.html)

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/DSCN1522_zpskzhhq8g4.jpg (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/TDOC2004/media/DSCN1522_zpskzhhq8g4.jpg.html)

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/DSCN1523_zps165yeiox.jpg (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/TDOC2004/media/DSCN1523_zps165yeiox.jpg.html)
(http://s114.photobucket.com/user/TDOC2004/media/DSCN1535_zpsm09zaii1.jpg.html)

[joecar]

What is patina/deposit on injectors...?

Spark plugs #3, #7, #8 seem to show evidence of oil/carbon... #4 shows something deposited on ground electrode.

I read something that indicated PCM can use rear NBO2's for trimming in some very special cases when front NBO2's could not be used... I would disconnect all the NBO2's and see if this improves the situation.

[DrX]

Lots of carbon/oil on many pistons as well. Not sure if deposits on injectors are from leaded race fuel. #3 injector is strangely clean. No rear O2s are present. Pistons 3, 7, 4 are pretty wet with oil and a lot of carbon buildup. Don't recall what # 8 looked like. Tried a cylinder balance test and 5,7,8 didn't seem to have any effect on the AFR on their respective banks. #8 seemed to have some effect after I played with some tables.

Compression test:
1-192 re-tested the same on second round
2-165
3-170
4-155 first round, 165 after a squirt of oil
5-160
6-170
7-165
8-160


Leakdown:

1- 20
2- 20
3- 12
4- 12
5- 18
6- 18
7- 15
8- 20

1-20____2-20
3-12____4-12
5-18____6-18
7-15____8-20

[joecar]

Hmmm, not good.... compression test does not agree with leakdown % indicating there are multiple problems... what do cylinder bores and valves look like...?

[DrX]

Definitely multiple issues now. Many valves have thick carbon on their tops just as the pistons.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/Heads%20and%20Pistons/DIGI0052_zpsltb8tlof.jpg (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/TDOC2004/media/Heads%20and%20Pistons/DIGI0052_zpsltb8tlof.jpg.html)

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/Heads%20and%20Pistons/DIGI0070_zpsoxbvic2t.jpg (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/TDOC2004/media/Heads%20and%20Pistons/DIGI0070_zpsoxbvic2t.jpg.html)

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/Heads%20and%20Pistons/DIGI0075_zpstb6dhs44.jpg (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/TDOC2004/media/Heads%20and%20Pistons/DIGI0075_zpstb6dhs44.jpg.html)

This piston is different:
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/Heads%20and%20Pistons/DIGI0081_zpsfruwvmm9.jpg (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/TDOC2004/media/Heads%20and%20Pistons/DIGI0081_zpsfruwvmm9.jpg.html)

Looks like that material can be scratched off:
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/Heads%20and%20Pistons/DIGI0127_zpsaxxm4fu1.jpg (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/TDOC2004/media/Heads%20and%20Pistons/DIGI0127_zpsaxxm4fu1.jpg.html)

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/Heads%20and%20Pistons/DIGI0136_zpscjx9js59.jpg (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/TDOC2004/media/Heads%20and%20Pistons/DIGI0136_zpscjx9js59.jpg.html)

Looking through an injector boss into an intake port:
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/Heads%20and%20Pistons/DIGI0107_zpst5zseeed.jpg (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/TDOC2004/media/Heads%20and%20Pistons/DIGI0107_zpst5zseeed.jpg.html)

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/DIGI0529%20-%20Copy_zpswd8cyw64.jpg (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/TDOC2004/media/DIGI0529%20-%20Copy_zpswd8cyw64.jpg.html)

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/DIGI0515%20-%20Copy_zps13epu5om.jpg (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/TDOC2004/media/DIGI0515%20-%20Copy_zps13epu5om.jpg.html)

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/DIGI0527%20-%20Copy_zpscbhybjsu.jpg (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/TDOC2004/media/DIGI0527%20-%20Copy_zpscbhybjsu.jpg.html)

Few more in a slideshow (http://vid114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/Cylinder%204%20intake%20valve_zpscumf2ymq.mp4)

[DrX]

Had the ID1000 injectors flow tested...looks like they didn't appreciate being cleaned. The automated test is a gradual ramp up.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n241/TDOC2004/photo3_zpszrhtikyl.jpg (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/TDOC2004/media/photo3_zpszrhtikyl.jpg.html)


So static(max) flow rates for the ID1000s were:

Initial/After 2 cleaning cycles

1. 864/888cc/min
2. 852/876cc/min
3. 864/888cc/min
4. 852/888cc/min
5. 852/876cc/min
6. 876/900cc/min
7. 852/888cc/min
8. 864/864cc/min

With 2 and 6 being erratic. Not sure why #3 was clean as a whistle(see pics) compared to all the rest. Wiring checks out good to all injectors.

What I had noticed was that bank 2 would tend to go way lean on a heat-soaked idle. Cold testing doesn't tell me how the injectors behave at higher temps.

[joecar]

Hmmm... hot soak idle B2 goes lean... and no front NBO2's (are they absent or present disabled...?)... is wire harness ok...?

[DrX]

Hmmm... hot soak idle B2 goes lean... and no front NBO2's (are they absent or present disabled...?)... is wire harness ok...?

I have run both no O2s and O2s present but disabled. To confirm what my widebands were showing with no narrow bands present, I actually installed a pair of new narrow bands. They also showed bank 2 going lean as the intake heated up(still in OL). I added fuel with A0014 to get B2 AFR down to a decent value, but then B1 is rich.

While testing shows more than 1% variation in peak injector flow, it is the erratic behavior at lower duty cycles that is more concerning.

[joecar]

I'm wondering if both banks are lean and somehow bank 1 is getting more fuel (leaky injector)... or maybe oil (rings, guides, PCV)...

hmmm, how does oil effect exhaust lambda...?

[DrX]

Tore it down this weekend to check it out. http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/1794577-compression-leakdown-numbers-2000-miles.html

[joecar]

Some scuffing on cylinders/pistons, and deposits in exhuaust ports (I'm viewing the pix on my small phone)...?