Procharged C7 closes throttle @ WOT !!! need help

[wesam]

I need help with C7 with D1 Procharger Auto tranny
The car will not allow to open the throttle 100% while WOT
I start by adding 50% to B8802,B8803,B8804 and B7717
then adding 20% until i maxed out those tables but the throttle still not open 100%

Any help will be appreciated

[wesam]

Any help will be appreciated

[496Stingray]

I had this problem years back on a Lamborghini using stock electronic throttle bodies. The boost pressure was overcoming the throttles and putting them in a failsafe slamming them shut at 7200 RPM (redline was 8300). Had to change both TB's to Motec to solve it. Not certain if this is related but might be worth checking.

[wesam]

To the top

[GMPX]

What is it going to? If it is 84% on the scanner then that is fully open in GM world.

[wesam]

I'm loging ETCTP so it should show 100%
Its showing between 50-60% !!!

[wesam]

To the top !!!

[Highlander]

Is it an Automatic?

[wesam]

Yes Auto !!

[Highlander]

how much power did it put down?

[wesam]

With 70% throttle ppen nearly 540 whp

[Highlander]

Not bad....

[wesam]

What do you think the problem is ?

[MN C5]

What do you think the problem is ?

I had the same issue on my Denali. I resolved it but I don't recall the tables I used to do it. I'll try and get a look in the next day or two and PM you.

[Highlander]

His problem was fixed a while ago!! :)

[koryenger]

Having the same problem on an engine dyno...what was the resolve?

[rumdomrum]

Any word on the solution?

[joecar]

Try to set the rev limiter a little lower.

[Eng.LSX]

Any updates on this ?

[RandyWS6]

I had the same problem with my C7 with a A&A supercharger, the BARO codes that you have and had to cut the wires that goes to the MassAir for the BARO and had to wire a plug that fit my factory MAP sensor, that i had to replaced with a 2.5 bar map on the intake for boost, and tie wrap it under the hood in free air and now the code are gone for good been 2 years now. If you need to know witch wire to cut i can take some pics tomorrow and send them to you or post them .

[GR8GAME]

Whatever became of this?

I am having the same issue on a dyno with a 2014 Corvette Z51 Auto.
The throttle closes to 58% during a WOT run.

A&A kit. 8 pounds of boost. ZR1 MAP sensor.

[joecar]

Please post your tune file, and a log file.

[GR8GAME]

2034420345

[GR8GAME]

Please post your tune file, and a log file.

I hope those made it in

[joecar]

Try this: in B5201 set Park and Neutral to 6600 rpm.

[joecar]

Also in B5212 set the 4000 values to 6600 just in case.


Are you getting any DTC's...?

Was this car previously NA and now it has an SC...?

Also look at C1801, C1802, C1803, C1804.

[GR8GAME]

I have not been getting any DTC'S with the car.

Yes, it was an N/A car! The customer installed an A&A kit himself.

I will play with those tables this morning and see what it does.

[GR8GAME]

The car set a DTC

P2229
Baro sensor circuit high.
First time it popped it.

[joecar]

Does he have the right MAP sensor...?

[GR8GAME]

20352

20354

I made the adjustments and the throttle is still closing. Crazy! I've never seen this before.
I'm going to upload the trans file too. Maybe the trans is messing with the ECU on this one? 20355

[GR8GAME]

Does he have the right MAP sensor...?

Factory MAP Sensor is AC Delco Part #12644228

Installed MAP Sensor is AC Delco Part# 12592525 (Basically, a ZR1 MAP sensor)

My datalogged EFI Live kpa is matching my dyno kpa exactly!

[GR8GAME]

On a side note, I was able to duplicate the situation on the street.
I wanted to take the 2WD dyno out of the equation.

[joecar]

( your log shows that this is one of few E92 OS's that emits correct values for the pid SAE.LAMBDA )

[GR8GAME]

So let me see if I can understand this...
Especially with a "rare" OS.

I want to make sure I understand this properly.

In my EQ Ratio table...what exactly makes it move up and down on the "X" access?
does the EQ Ratio move based on HP, TQ, Airflow? Does it work in conjuction with another table?

The number in the EQ Ratio table, when I change them do they have to match in lambda vs. Targeted Power Enrichment table?

[GR8GAME]

Another thing I'm thinking of...

The factory Stoich is only at 14.11
My commanded PE is 13 and blends down to 12.50. So I want to make sure I get the math base correct based on those factors.

[joecar]

If you mean pid-linking (scantool cursor links to cell in tunetool table), then the link-pids (mentioned on the table axes) are what causes the cell highlight to move...

post a screenshot...

( scantool PIDs tab must mention the same units for the link pids as the tunetool table axis )


EQR is commanded based on the richest current/on-the-fly cell from all the currently active fueling tables (so you have to understand what/when fueling tables are active).


The EQR read from the following tables is supposed to show on SAE.LAMBDA (lambda being 1/EQR):
- B0142, B0143, B0144 (hmmm, is there a table missing there...?),
- B0198, B0199,
- B3618, B3670.



E38 and above are supposed to update the pid SAE.LAMBDA.

LS1 PCM's update the pid GM.EQIVRATIO.

[joecar]

Another thing I'm thinking of...

The factory Stoich is only at 14.11
My commanded PE is 13 and blends down to 12.50. So I want to make sure I get the math base correct based on those factors.

You should be able to find these PE values in the tables...

you can either set the tunetool to display AFR fueling units...

or

you can find out what your commanded PE is in EQR units (SAE.LAMBDA) and the tunetool to display Lambda fueling units.




( also, in tunetool, when looking at EQR, increase decimal digits to 3 or 4 decimal places (click +.00 button) )

[GR8GAME]

I am going to try to answer everything I can in BOLD


If you mean pid-linking (scantool cursor links to cell in tunetool table), then the link-pids (mentioned on the table axes) are what causes the cell highlight to move...

Exactly!!!!
I use that tool constantly.

post a screenshot...

I'm posting a few of them.

( scantool PIDs tab must mention the same units for the link pids as the tunetool table axis )

And that is why I'm looking for the PID that will show me the EQ Ratio:

20370

I'm looking for the pid-linking cursor to move vertically along the EQ Ratio table that I highlighted in the red box. Does that make sense?



EQR is commanded based on the richest current/on-the-fly cell from all the currently active fueling tables (so you have to understand what/when fueling tables are active).

The EQR read from the following tables is supposed to show on SAE.LAMBDA (lambda being 1/EQR):
- B0142, B0143, B0144 (hmmm, is there a table missing there...?),
- B0198, B0199,
- B3618, B3670.

That does make sense. That's why I was trying to understand the ECU strategy in regards to all of the tables and THEN how it calculates what the EQ Ratio is.



E38 and above are supposed to update the pid SAE.LAMBDA.

LS1 PCM's update the pid GM.EQIVRATIO.



So, since I'm trying to understand all of this. I made some changes to my file.
I want to include them in the post.
I made the changes in the file, and I made a WOT pull. I, now, see that my throttle is still closing...but at a much higher RPM then before. So am I safe to say I am going in the right direction?
If not, do you have any advice?

And a new problem did arise that is not related to the Throttle Body closing...I'm losing Spark, now!
If you look at my screen shots, I'm seeing my commanded spark drop THEN my throttle body closes later in the revs.

20368

20369

Here are the files with where I am at today:

2037120372

[joecar]

In the pic you posted of table B3005, you need 2 things:
- the EQ Ratio axis does not have a pid link (otherwise it would say "{link: GMEQIVRATIO}" (or something similar).
- the RPM does not have a pid link either.

We can add pidlinks, we need to find the file E92_Links.ini and add .row and .col entries for B3005 (and possibly some other related tables)...

if E92_Link.ini does not contain any entries for B3005, we can add them (see below)...

we need a calc pid to convert SAE.LAMBDA to EQR, let's call this CALC.SAE_EQR


then E92_Link.ini would contain this:

[E92]
B3005.ROW=CALC.SAE_EQR
B3005.COL=SAE.RPM



and we would have to edit calc_pid.txt to contain this:

*CLC-00-044
factor 0.5 1.5 .3 "1/{SAE.LAMBDA}"

. . .

CALC.SAE_EQR F044 CLC-00-044 factor Tuning "SAE.EQR from SAE.LAMBDA"

[joecar]

This would be the result:

20376

[GR8GAME]

Joe, I can't thank you enough on this one!
Because that is EXACTLY what I'm looking for.
Is that something I do? Or something you do?


Now, here's the thing.
I re-read this entire thread and I think I figured something out.
Because I am "trying" things on this car to resolve this issue. Every time I "flash" the ECU, it clears the DTC's. So, I decided to pull the DTC's and look at the "Pending".
What I found is that there are "pending" codes but they are not actually throwing a Check Engine light.
Here are the codes I'm receiving:
P0325 - Knock Sensor Performance
P2227 - Baro Sensor Performance
P2229 - Baro Sensor Circuit

If you look at post #20, the gentlemen mentions that he has a BARO code causing his issue's. Well, I have a 2-bar map (ZR1 map) and it is the SAME thing he had problems with.
I'm thinking this BARO code MAY be where my problem is. The MAF sensor houses the BARO sensor. I'm thinking he took the BARO out of the equation and just kept it at Atmospheric instead of putting it under boost.

Is my thinking going in the right direction?
Can I just disable the code? Or do I need to rewire something like in post #20. I'm going to PM him and see if he answers. I'd like to resolve the BARO issue.

The other code I'm getting deals with the KNOCK sensors. Which may be retarding my timing. I need to look at that too because the supercharger makes more noise on start-up and while running.

[joecar]

I'll send you the calc_pids.txt and E92_Link.ini files tomorrow, they are on my other machine.

[joecar]

Does it have a BARO sensor separate from the MAP sensor...?

If yes, and from where you said it is located, then you should allow it to see atmosperic pressure only, and not boost (that is why it is called BARO sensor

[GR8GAME]

I'll send you the calc_pids.txt and E92_Link.ini files tomorrow, they are on my other machine.

Your Awesome!!!!
Thank you.

I think is really going to help me with these processors moving forward on big builds.
That way I stay within the ECU strategy.


Does it have a BARO sensor separate from the MAP sensor...?

If yes, and from where you said it is located, then you should allow it to see atmospheric pressure only, and not boost (that is why it is called BARO sensor

So, after working through this...I've figured it out.
It's taken me a bit, but I'm glad I did. AND it is EXACTLY what you just said.
Right before I saw your post, I turned OFF the codes for BARO. Just to see what would happen. Guess what? The Throttle stayed OPEN!!!!! I shut down the pull at 5200 because it is uncharted territory at WOT on this tune on this car. So I haven't complete my MAF Transfer function.
So this goes along with your post. Hear me out on this one...

This is a GM 8 wire MAF.
It houses the Humidity + BARO + MAF + IAT all in one!!!!!!!!!!
So, think about it. You have a sensor that is trying to calculate something it was never intended to be...a BLOW through design sensor with boosted + heated air.
Now, if I were to make this a DRAW through MAF, I would still have problems. I wouldn't have the correct IAT readings of what is going into the motor for my Spark vs IAT table.
And right now, I'm having incorrect BARO readings since I am making my own atmosphere under boost conditions right now as a Blow Thru design.

So, I'm thinking to make this "Right", I have to either...relocate the BARO section of the MAF. OR, make it a Draw thru design and relocate the IAT (and that's not taking into account the humdity reading as well!!!!!!!)
Because the GM factory Supercharged vehicles have two IAT sensors in them. So they have the proper sensor setups for PROPER atmospheric condition changes. They are also a DRAW thru design with the sensors needed for all of these factors.

Here is my fear:
I tune Dodge's as well. They are Speed Density with 02 corrections. They have no MAF sensors. On my Hemi builds I have to tune them in the winter or late nights in the summer and be VERY conservative with the AFR settings. Why? so as to not go lean when they go into boost when it's cold out. I get a full AFR reading change from cool to hot!!!!!
So in this GM processor, my fear is that if I have a BARO sensor that is reading boost...that's not a proper indication of what the ACTUAL BARO is outside. So that when the customer goes up in elevation, it will be an unknown condition for the customer since it is in a position in which it will read boost!

So, I either copy what the poster did in #20 and make my own connector and take the BARO out of the MAF sensor and hook up the customers stock MAP sensor and put it in the air box OR I change the MAF to a draw thru and relocated the IAT into the blow thru tube.

Either way, I'm thinking that we need to have the 2-bar MAP sensor do the work of the boost and the BARO sensor do the work of the atmospheric correction...which seems to me the way to go since that's how GM seems to have the processor strategy setup to do so.

How's my thinking on this one?

[joecar]

Copy attached files to the following folders:
- calc_pids.txt -> C:\users\you\documents\EFILive\7.5\User Configuration
- E92_Link.ini -> C:\Program Files (x86)\EFILive\V7.5\Configuration

first rename E92_Link.ini.txt to E92_Link.ini (i.e. remove ".txt").


Then restart scantool and tunetool.

[joecar]

...

This is a GM 8 wire MAF.
It houses the Humidity + BARO + MAF + IAT all in one!!!!!!!!!!
So, think about it. You have a sensor that is trying to calculate something it was never intended to be...a BLOW through design sensor with boosted + heated air.
Now, if I were to make this a DRAW through MAF, I would still have problems. I wouldn't have the correct IAT readings of what is going into the motor for my Spark vs IAT table.
And right now, I'm having incorrect BARO readings since I am making my own atmosphere under boost conditions right now as a Blow Thru design.

So, I'm thinking to make this "Right", I have to either...relocate the BARO section of the MAF. OR, make it a Draw thru design and relocate the IAT (and that's not taking into account the humdity reading as well!!!!!!!)
Because the GM factory Supercharged vehicles have two IAT sensors in them. So they have the proper sensor setups for PROPER atmospheric condition changes. They are also a DRAW thru design with the sensors needed for all of these factors.

Here is my fear:
I tune Dodge's as well. They are Speed Density with 02 corrections. They have no MAF sensors. On my Hemi builds I have to tune them in the winter or late nights in the summer and be VERY conservative with the AFR settings. Why? so as to not go lean when they go into boost when it's cold out. I get a full AFR reading change from cool to hot!!!!!
So in this GM processor, my fear is that if I have a BARO sensor that is reading boost...that's not a proper indication of what the ACTUAL BARO is outside. So that when the customer goes up in elevation, it will be an unknown condition for the customer since it is in a position in which it will read boost!

So, I either copy what the poster did in #20 and make my own connector and take the BARO out of the MAF sensor and hook up the customers stock MAP sensor and put it in the air box OR I change the MAF to a draw thru and relocated the IAT into the blow thru tube.

Either way, I'm thinking that we need to have the 2-bar MAP sensor do the work of the boost and the BARO sensor do the work of the atmospheric correction...which seems to me the way to go since that's how GM seems to have the processor strategy setup to do so.

How's my thinking on this one?Yes, I agree...

the true BARO plays an important role, for example see the horizontal axis on each of the VE tables, it usesMAP:BARO ratio (which incidentally I included in the calc_pids.txt and E92_Link.ini files)...

and the true IAT of the air blob is just as important in any calculation of the cylinder airmass.



if possible (I know time is a constraint) it would be interesting to see the results of both configurations (relocated BARO vs draw-thru-MAF with relocated IAT).

[GR8GAME]

Copy attached files to the following folders:
- calc_pids.txt -> C:\users\you\documents\EFILive\7.5\User Configuration
- E92_Link.ini -> C:\Program Files (x86)\EFILive\V7.5\Configuration

first rename E92_Link.ini.txt to E92_Link.ini (i.e. remove ".txt").


Then restart scantool and tunetool.

AWESOME
I got it to work on my Windows 7 laptop.

Any tricks on how to get it to work on a Windows 10 laptop?
Are you evening using Windows 10 yet????

Sorry, nevermind. I got it to work.

[GR8GAME]

Yes, I agree...

the true BARO plays an important role, for example see the horizontal axis on each of the VE tables, it usesMAP:BARO ratio (which incidentally I included in the calc_pids.txt and E92_Link.ini files)...

and the true IAT of the air blob is just as important in any calculation of the cylinder airmass.



if possible (I know time is a constraint) it would be interesting to see the results of both configurations (relocated BARO vs draw-thru-MAF with relocated IAT).

even better!
i opened up the file and found the link
I'm going to, actually, use that on this car. I like doing the VVE tables and get them close because if the MAF ever fails it has a reference to fall back on to keep the motor from blowing up.
I also like to do those tables because on initial WOT stab, the ECM "looks" at the VE table until the MAF can catch up with commanded load vs airflow.

[GR8GAME]

2038420385

So, here is where I'm at.
It looks to be datalogging properly.

BUT, I'm still unclear on what I need to be changing it too.

I also am having another problem.
The car is WAY down on power!
Here is a pic from my dyno datalog: 20383
I am getting the boost! I'm getting the AFR right on. I'm getting the spark to be right there. My TB is staying open, like it should.
Seems weird to me that the power is so low.

[joecar]

...
Any tricks on how to get it to work on a Windows 10 laptop?
Are you evening using Windows 10 yet????

Sorry, nevermind. I got it to work.I use Win7... I have not touched Win10.

[joecar]

even better!
i opened up the file and found the link
I'm going to, actually, use that on this car. I like doing the VVE tables and get them close because if the MAF ever fails it has a reference to fall back on to keep the motor from blowing up.
I also like to do those tables because on initial WOT stab, the ECM "looks" at the VE table until the MAF can catch up with commanded load vs airflow.Yes, correct, during throttle transients below the dynamic air RPM threshold (typically 4000 rpm), the ECM is using VE.

And If the MAF ever fails then it's nice to have the engine still be able to run on VE.

[joecar]

2038420385

So, here is where I'm at.
It looks to be datalogging properly.

BUT, I'm still unclear on what I need to be changing it too.

I also am having another problem.
The car is WAY down on power!
Here is a pic from my dyno datalog: 20383
I am getting the boost! I'm getting the AFR right on. I'm getting the spark to be right there. My TB is staying open, like it should.
Seems weird to me that the power is so low.

BTW: you can do native Windows screenshots, much easier/quicker than using a camera ( I use http://getgreenshot.org ).

Is this on chassis dyno...?

[GR8GAME]

I use Win7... I have not touched Win10.

Me neither!
Until last night, hahahahaha. I don't like it. BETTER then Win8 though.
But the procedure ended up being damn near identical. So it worked out.

[GR8GAME]

BTW: you can do native Windows screenshots, much easier/quicker than using a camera ( I use http://getgreenshot.org ).

Is this on chassis dyno...?


It's because I didn't want to log-in with my dyno desktop. I just took a quick pick with my phone.

chassis dyno.

I think I figured it out. I'm going to datalog the "noise" from individual cylinders and see if it's true knock, or just noise from the blower bolted up to the driver side head.
It's pulling 2.5 degrees up top. So I'm thinking that I may need to deal with tables: B1975 thru B1982 I've already messed with B1967 thru B1974. I'm going to see if that works on this car.

[GR8GAME]

I'm hoping by keeping this thread alive, that people tuning C7's will get some help/knowledge of what other people are doing and coming across.
If you would like me to start a new thread, I can...

I hope everyone had a good holiday season!
I'm back to work and I have a different C7 on the dyno I'm working on.

2014 Corvette C7
Base Model
7-speed manual

A&A Ti Supercharger
Custom grind cam 232/244 on a 116 with about .615 lift.
AFM delete + VCT limiter
Stock heads
Stock manifolds with a "Cat delete" setup.
ZR1 3-bar MAP sensor
Stock intake and TB

During a pull it goes REALLY lean!!!! Into the 14's. And the crazy thing is...it's a COMMANDED 14!

I'm posting my file and my datalog along with my A/F printout.
You'll see in the datalog right at 4500 rpms it goes really lean even though I still "should" be in the realm of the PE commanded table because I am at WOT.
My dyno picked up the lean condition which is why I shut it down to avoid engine damage. Also note I haven't touched the injection timing.

I did make some injector timing changes to see if the numbers on the dyno changes. I'm also going to datalog the PID's for the fuel pressure next. So I will post those up as well after this next pull.

Any help would be appreciated, thank you!

20685 20686 20687

[GR8GAME]

I made some adjustments to my injector timing on this file.
I also included a datalog

I'm assuming this DTC I'm getting is due to the larger fuel pump profile on the cam...
P0004 Fuel Volume Regulator Control Circuit High

That is the only DTC I'm getting.
Maybe I need to shut it off....?
Either way, the commanded AFR going into the 14's is worrying me. It did move up 200rpms above the last file.

2068820689

I'm at a loss here.
It seems like to me the car is going out of the PE parameters and going to stoich for some odd reason.

[joecar]

It almost seems like B0157 is upside-down...

[GR8GAME]

It almost seems like B0157 is upside-down...

I see it...But it shouldn't make a difference.
Because I opened up the stock file and it's the same way. I never adjusted it.

The way I'm seeing it, is at 4500rpms (which is where I'm having the problem) the table is saying that ANYthing above 4500 AND 70% load "should" allow for PE.

According to my datalogs, I'm meeting the criteria.

Or am I not understanding it properly?

[joecar]

That's how I understand it.

~Moderator~

[GR8GAME]

I figured it out...

And GM sucks for it, BTW!

[joecar]

I figured it out...

And GM sucks for it, BTW!
Please explain what you found...

~Moderator~

[wesam]

I found in some E92 cars if you rise the torque tables too much it will go out of PE for some odd reson
I dont have my laptop right now to check your file but could this be the reason

[GR8GAME]

Weasam, thank you for the heads up. I may go back through the file and put in some more realistic numbers, now. To prevent that.

Joe, I had to go throughout ALL of the Cat over temp settings and, basically, max them out.
It looks like GM decided that if you hit any of the criteria (even during PE mode) that the car would command stoich!
After I went through every single setting and disabled or maxed out the settings, my power came up and I was able to go to redline!

[joecar]

...

It looks like GM decided that if you hit any of the criteria (even during PE mode) that the car would command stoich!
...
lol, I wonder what/why their reasoning was.



~Moderator~

[GR8GAME]

lol, I wonder what/why their reasoning was.



~Moderator~

To make us blow up motors....
(Stirring pot emoji goes here)