vve map/rpm boundaries 2010 ls3 cammed camaro

[camaro10]

Any help determining what these values should be based on a log or two? I first set it as swingtans tutorial. But its shaped oddly and I don't think I'll get it correct as its way off the way it is after multiple corrections using wideband Ben factors.. Thoughts or any pointers on setting it up? I will be using the maf as well when finished and probably just stfts for corrections.

[swingtan]

First: VVE MAP and RPM boundaries should be set so that common running conditions fall as close to the centre of a zone as possible. IE. Idle, cruise, acceleration, WOT should be as far away from zone boundaries as possible

Second: A zone can only curve in one direction, concave or convex. You cannot create a "wave" shape in a single zone. So set the boundaries to the points where the curve changes.

You probably won't get a perfect fit, but you should be able to get very close.

Simon.

[camaro10]

Gotcha, as far as map boundaries go, I take it since I have the bigger cam I'll have change that mainly at the first rpm section due to vaccum loss? Or make it flatter since in ex under 1000 rpm is idle region and around 60kpa in my logs

[swingtan]

I'm not sure what you mean by "flatter", the zone boundaries them self don;t set the shape of the VVE, only where the shape can change direction.

So for Idle, say your idle speed is 800RPM and the MAP at normal warm idle is 50kPA, you'd set up the zone so that this point was close to the centre of the zone. Same goes for cruise speeds, Maybe it's 1500 RPM and 35kPA, make sure that's close to the centre of a zone.

To be honest though, you don't "have" to change the zone boundaries at all. It's more of a fine tuning exercise.

[camaro10]

Ok, so with some time into looking at logs I should be able to get this sorted out pretty close. In your tutorial you set the ramp in/out rates for pe to 0.1. I have mine set to this but isn't that essentially slower. I know for units it says factor but I'm not sure just what that's going off of?

[camaro10]

I'm getting frustrated with this. I have lean and rich dips all over and as soon as I generate the vve it tames it down so I guess there is no point in using a Ben factor but rather use it as a reference where to add and subtract fuel? If I post a log or two and a current tune, any pointers or tips?

[joecar]

Post your files, we'll try.,,.

[camaro10]

Cool, I'll get some posted in the morning, thanks!

[camaro10]

185871858818589

[camaro10]

I ve made an updated tune, just never logged it. Its also strange why the car isn't running at the commanded base timing for idle. Yet with the maf enabled it seems to be after I average it out based on spark correction. Also WOT is only like 60%ish instead of the 83% that it normally is with the maf enabled. I believe I have everything set to the way swingtan demonstrates in the tutorial besides rpm and map zone boundaries.. I did recently change them around alittle to try to better center the zones like talked about above.

[camaro10]

It will not allow to post the wb ben map for ve, it says its an invalid file?

[camaro10]

Joecar?

[joecar]

I'm still looking at your files....

[camaro10]

Okay

[camaro10]

One thing that's odd is that the mad calibration is pretty good within a few percent and it turned out smaller than the factory one, I wouldn't think this is the case with a different cam but that's how it turned out

[camaro10]

This vve shit is for the birds.. The car doesn't respond the way it should. Its like taking a shot at the dark

[camaro10]

So nobody tunes e38s?

[camaro10]

Any thoughts or do I start over ?

[Dieselman]

I have normally just used STFT's for adjusting the VVE. I tried using the BEN factors but my results always ended up weird looking and trims still all over the place when back in CL.

One thing to make sure is make sure you filter out any bad data - rapid throttle movements etc

[swingtan]

Hi all,
sorry I've been absent. I've been doing a lot of long days at work.

Anyway, I've been looking at the tune and log files. Overall, it doesn't look too bad (I've seen a lot worse). In terms of fueling, the obvious issues are lean on light throttle and lean in the higher RPM range. Normal cruising is not perfect, but not too bad.

let's look at light throttle first. It doesn't look like DFCO is coming into effect, so the lean mixture is not that. Also, command AFR doesn't change so it's not lean cruise. The VVE does look a bit low right along the 2200 RPM to 3000 RPM range, so this is likely to be the culprit. I've nudged the VVE in this range to correct for this.

The second part is the higher RPM range. The VVE looked well out there as it actually dropped above about 75kPa. So I bumped it a bit more to level it out.

See if this gets you any closer. Sometimes you need use a sledge hammer to get the VVE into a basic shape before fine tuning. When it's close changes of 0.5% can make all the difference.

Simon.

[camaro10]

Thanks guys I'll give it a shot and repost a log, I do have some decent filters that I've been using or so I think at least. I appreciate the help! Thank you

[camaro10]

I applied some basic updates to this tune that I had done previously before the new tune was posted. Here is a new log. Its better in areas I guess. Also not sure why timing is dropping off under wot conditions. Its not KR or a IAT multipler or it would be pulling more than that Id think? Any thoughts? Also I will do some updates on the ve table and see what you think, Where its at now Im not sure if using benfactors will work. Id imagine where is close is where I could modify it using the ben factor.

[camaro10]

Also if I left the maf fail rpm to say 8000rpm the car would start and die instantly until I changed it down to where it is at now. It never says reduced power mode. So I'd assume I'm good to go

[swingtan]

That log file looks a lot better than the previous one. The fueling is a lot closer, so you should just need to clean up the VVE where it's currently off.

Just remember, that BEN MAPs will only work if you have a large amount of data. You really want at least 30 min of log time, but 2 hrs on the road would be better. You also want to set up your filters to exclude all log data that will give bad readings (throttle movements, DFCO, warm up cycles, etc ).

For your tune though, I'djust highlight the log data that you want to work on, and then go to the tune file and work on those cells directly. I wouldn't use the BEN MAP.

Simon.

[camaro10]

OK I'll give it a shot, I would like to do logs that long but for some reason itll throw an error if I log to long and will freeze up the scan software until I reboot. Not sure why everything is updated as far as software and the computer is only maybe 4 years old tops

[camaro10]

I've made a few changes, I'll post the tune and log tomorrow. I've also turned up the maximum number of frames being logged. Am I supposed to generate the vve than the coeffs or vice versa because I've been generating the coeffs first?

[camaro10]

The filters I have are for tp changing < 5%, ect > or equal to 180 , iat < or equal to 95°f, and afr set to 14.3 or less

[camaro10]

Now when I apply the changes do I need to still go around the dips and spikes and add or subtract x amount of percent to smooth it out manually before generating?

[camaro10]

How picky can I be for the ve, within 3%?

[swingtan]

Given how close the VVE is now, I'd do this.


Open the log file and on one chart, have commanded AFR and WB AFR.
Set the chart properties so that the range for both commanded AFR and WB AFR are minimum 10:1, maximum 15:1
This will let you see really quickly where the measured AFR differs from commanded. Basically anywhere the two traces do not overlay.
Set and apply your filters to exclude unwanted data ( for your current tune, probably just where the throttle is moving too much).
View the whole log to get a "feel" for the fueling. Take mental notes on where it looks rich or lean. I'd start with lean as that's where the VVE is farthest out.
Highlight a section where the measured AFR is leaner than the commanded, and note roughly by how much. The two main area's I see are light cruise, where it's nearly 2 points lean, and WOT higher RPM where it's a bit less. Maybe star with lean cruise, so find a section that shows lean and highlight that.
Go to the VVE in tune tool hit F2 to bring up the VVE Graph and table. Look for the highlighted area in the table that indicates the section selected in scan tool. Select those cells on the VVE so you get a "block" of cells to adjust. Do a "best fit" selection, you can miss some random cells as well as include some extra to fill in gaps.
In the adjustment value box and enter 0.5, as you are working on the lean sections. If you were rich, you'd enter -0.5. Then hit the "%" button (or F11) to apply the adjustment on those cells.
Then make a new selection on the VVE table that is one cell bigger than the last. Hit "%" (F11) again, once.
Move to the next section scan tool and repeat the adjustments. NOTE: Don't adjust cells you have already changed. If any ranges overlap with cells that have already been changed, exclude those cells when making the selections in Tune Tool.
When you made all the changes you want, generate the coefficients and save the file. Do not regenerate the VVE and keep tuning. Only perform a single VVE generation between log sessions, otherwise you may introduce additional unwanted changes.
load up the new tune and go logging.


Regarding your logging for extended times, you really should set up BBL. When on the street, BBL is the best option for longer logging sessions

[camaro10]

Being that stoich in the tune is 14.2 and the wb is 14.57 I should probably use lambda and compare to the commanded afr? Or the Ben factor but just on the dash board? The part where you say move to a bigger cell and hit f11 again, are you saying that as in a higher map reading or rpm!

[camaro10]

the first tune is a tune Ive been making some adjustments on, with a log following. The tune after that is updated but will be logged later today, working nights and doing this before and after work is taking its toll lol. Thanks for all of your help swingtan!

[camaro10]

I give alot of credit to the guys that can get this pretty close, having it that lean up top makes me not want to run it that high. I guess I don't understand why it doesn't react like it should. In any areas im working on. For the guys that run speed density only I don't see how that can work on these cars when its all over the place for fueling. I don't want to give up on ve tuning yet because I have alot of time and gas stuck into it so far. Maybe I should have my cfco and dfco active when tuning the vve, because I disabled it when I was doing the maf

[camaro10]

When doing the .5% fine tuning, do I want the zone align at 0 or 1? Also when you say only rengerate the vve once per session but say to leave it after doing the coefficients I'm kind of confused on that as to when I should do that? Thabks

[camaro10]

Going to run maf only. Done, giving up on vve. Spent a ton of money on banishs dvds/tuning books. The .5% plus or minus percent didn't help out at all and made everything worse. Props to you to get it better but when it comes to editing I don't think I have it figured out. Just kind of pissed about wasting my time and to those who did help I appreciate it.

[camaro10]

I'm not going to kill my engine running it lean or wash the cylinders trying to figure this out anymore. This is nothing like tuning the maf. This is why most of the venders that sell cam packages etc and even local tuners only do maf. I now know why

[camaro10]

I've made another go at this with stfts as a Ben factor, still no luck with making this better. Why does the changes I make actually not follow up, I've tried the .5% changes and I've tried over correcting. No luck. Gas ain't cheap to gain zero progress.

[joecar]

Make sure MAF is failing (get a MAF DTC immediately on engine start).

[camaro10]

I'm certain it is as I get the code in my logs, but fine tuning and than it smoothed out and does nothing besides shift the error in fueling around

[joecar]

Post the current tune file for this car, and the latest log.

[camaro10]

Post the current tune file for this car, and the latest log.

Ok, i will. I am using stfts as the Ben factor now though. Wb02 is still hooked up