96 vortec 7.4 0411 swapped still needs a basic tune that works

[cmos2112]

I have been reading for a long time now and I find several similar topics and they all just end with no resolution. I am committed here, I swapped my computer for a 0411. I must make it run as it is a needed vehicle. It stumbled when starting so I investigated and replaced the fuel pump, and fuel pressure regulator. It still stumbles when starting, and now it wont run when I put it in gear. It dies at tip in as soon as I shift it to Drive. I suppose a crank relearn is in order. What I am seeking is someone who has made a 7.4 Vortec run with a 0411 comp and a 4l80e. I am willing to pay for the help but I need to find someone who CAN help. I have worked on cars for over 22 years and I understand more than most newbs on these forums about how, what, when, where, and why fuel injection is not "The Debil" (waterboy) but I am just as stuck as the newest of the new.

If someone has made a 7.4/4l80e run smooth with a 0411 swap you are my guy, or gal, or Alien shade planet mechanic I don't care which one. Please I implore you, will you help me get on the right track?

Thanks to all who read this and don't turn a blind eye. Thanks to all the helpful people on here who teach so many so much. Thanks to EFILive for making this all possible.

[cmos2112]

So I kept reading and I think I have found some very helpful info. I am certain that I need to do a crank relearn (po1336), and I think I have the right link to figure that out now. I have tried to do a C.A.S.E. with my V2 and it keeps failing to start the procedure. Maybe I just need to get the computer to think the brake and trans signal are doing the right thing at the right time.

I have another problem however. because the engine is so badly out of time it coughs and sputters and runs like crap just trying to get up to 1200 rpm, then it will smooth out at about 3500 and race up to almost 6000 if I stay on the throttle.

I think I need a basic stock tune until I get a crank relearn to work. I can't tell if the trouble I am having is because it sat too long with bad gas or if the fuel or spark maps are wrong or what the problem is. I am trying to work through it all by the process of elimination. I thought I had a basic stock tune in it but it has been over a year since I last played with it. I found a few tun files that fellow Big Blockheads have posted for a starting point and I am going to try that next to see if my stumbling problem is the tables or the actual distributor position.

I am also going to try to keep putting my findings on here as I figure this out, because as I commented in another thread it seems like all the other posted 7.4 troubles get solved in private emails and forgotten about in the forums. I get it, your troubles are over, back to life in the real world. Maybe I just never found the right thread, I don't know.

Lastly, please don't take any of my posts as snide or intentionally rude. I have been frustrated that I can not solve my problem, but I know that no one else made it for me. If I come off as a jerk, I apologize, I do not mean to.

[cmos2112]

So far today I have flashed 6 times and 5 of them would not even produce a spark. I have it on a running .ctz with injectors set at 20#. The stock injectors are 19# but the tune I am starting from had 24.33# set as default. I used a 5.7 van tune to start. I still have terrible cough sputter and stumble until launching over 4000rpm.

[MobileProg]

Contact Caleditor
http://www.pcmcalibrators.net/

There is a specific GM mexico OS that is perfect for what you want. Better than the VAN OS. I never ended up swapping mine so I dont have it but ask him for a starter tune on the mexican truck OS.

[Lextech]

I generally keep pretty good track of who I have give wiring info to. I don't remember giving you any. I don't know of any tune related issue that would make it not have spark. Also, did you wire the EGR circuit appropriately for the 0411?

Jeff

[cmos2112]

Thank you MobileProg, the site looks like some pretty great stuff. I will have to talk to them about a tune for this thing.

[cmos2112]

Jeff it has been quite a long time but I did get my info from you to swap wiring in my 96 Suburban. You were very helpful. I got it running 2 years ago but it was never perfect. The ingeartiming tun file never worked for me. I was still using the basic 5.7 express van tune for the 4l80e. I had adjusted a few things but not much. It always ran a little rough and I just didn't have time or make time to sort it out. I figured as old as it was that the fuel pressure regulator needed replaced to fix the hard start. I also replaced the fuel pump and sock in the tank. I had to pull the distributor when I replaced the fuel pressure regulator. I did not start it before doing the repair, it had sat for a long time. When I got it back together nothing was better.
At about 4pm today I finished reclocking the distributor to see if it would run smoother. Now i have no spark at all. I had it running yesterday, I have everything plugged in and I am confused as to why the spark is gone. I will figure that out today still.

As far as the egr wiring goes I will have to look again. I know I looked it over no less than 5 times when I first rewired it. I am very particular with that sort of thing. I wired the prnd switch at the cluster and I am sure I followed the instructions you gave for the egr wiring even though I planned to disable it.
I will send you an email at the address you used 2 years ago. If you have some more insight I would appreciate the help.

[RADustin]

sounds like the dizzy is too far off.

when it does run, have you put a timing light on it?

[cmos2112]

I have put a light on it. I had a light on it for the last few days trying to figure out if I could see the problem was timing, revving the engine with my son watching the light on the balancer. It seemed to just stay @ 20*btdc.

Life kept me too busy to figure out spark today, back at it tomorrow.

[RADustin]

I remember setting up my brothers truck(he had Jeff's help as well) that getting the dizzy right was a pain.

crank relearn isn't going to make it run good or bad- it is simply for misfire and timing reduction for knock detection.

I believe you have a dizzy offset setting- and that setting was important to get it to run right.

I can probably provide you a basic tune from my brother that may get you running if you do think it is tune related. I think you have something mechanical wrong though.

[cmos2112]

I remember setting up my brothers truck(he had Jeff's help as well) that getting the dizzy right was a pain.

crank relearn isn't going to make it run good or bad- it is simply for misfire and timing reduction for knock detection.

I believe you have a dizzy offset setting- and that setting was important to get it to run right.

I can probably provide you a basic tune from my brother that may get you running if you do think it is tune related. I think you have something mechanical wrong though.

Thank you RADustin, you are correct that I have something mechanically wrong now, in fact I must have something wrong now because I changed the distributor position, however when I first put the tune on I had swapped from a running 96 computer to the 411 and still had trouble. It had been starting hard before the swap. Anytime I used it when I still had the stock computer if I hadn't started it for a little while the fuel pressure would leak off and I would have to get the fuel pressure back up to start it by bumping the starter and letting the fuel pump prime the line pressure 2 or 3 times. That is why I replaced the fuel pressure regulator and pump last week. I thought that would be the end of my troubles and it would just run. After all, it had been running on the 411 tune for over a year before I parked it. Perhaps the injectors are gummed up from sitting so long.

Perhaps a timeline of troubles will help everyone help me.

1 Got Suburban for a tow rig, threw rod bearing in first 1000 miles.
2 replaced engine with used unit from a wreck, went through everything during install. Only the heads stayed on. All looked well.
3 Suburban runs fine but I want more power, sometimes need to prime fuel pump twice to start easy, or just crank on it longer.
4 bought 2010 Dodge Cummins to tow, Suburban is now a toy
5 bought FSV2 in hopes of tuning everything I own.
6 while waiting for EfiLive to support my pickup I programmed my 01 Yukon after swapping the motor and emptying the cats to eliminate the ses and bump up power with mild success
7 tried to flash the Suburban, couldn't…
8 411 is genius
9 did the 411 swap, fuel pressure continued to plague me, but it drove. Oil began to leak from the pressure sensor behind and below the dizzy.
10 it sat
11 replaced the pump and regulator and oil pressure sending unit and had to move dizzy to do so
12 a stripped screw head caused me to pull the dizzy with the cap on. (first sign of trouble with the timing) I could not see the rotor position.
13 thought that I put it back right, no dice, runs worse than ever off idle and dies going into gear.
14 Reflashed
15 reclocked dizzy
16 wrote more than most people want to read
17 Rage quite a few times, pulled remaining hair out.

[cmos2112]

Ok, I pulled upper intake, upper shroud, belt, fan and drivers valve cover off. I rotated the eng until the dizzy pointed to #1. It was 25° advanced on the balancer. I pulled it up, to keep the oil pump shaft in the right spot. I ran 2 times around to be sure it was on the right stroke and dropped the bugger back in. It still did not have any spark. I checked with my timing light right at the coil as well. Nothing. As I had very little hair left to pull, I decided to think everything through and check one more tune file before taking every ignition part to be bench tested down the street at the parts store. I put the old basic Express Van starter tune in it. It works but wow is it anemic.
Ok so now I do a case relearn and then on to the wonderful world of tuning.
I still could use a better tune if someone has one to offer or sell cheap. I won't have much money for a few days but jobs are coming in all the time.
I am going to try my hand at a little tweaking to try to keep it low cost at this point but I would love to have a good tune to play with instead of this weak base tune.
Thanks to RADustin and Lextech for all the help.

[cmos2112]

Finally a tune worth a darn. Thanks Lextech once again. I have a functional tune now and a running Suburban. I am so glad to have that much working. I reflashed a few times today, mostly small adjustments after getting a tune that works like I thought it should from the beginning. I am still getting a P1336 case learn dtc but I should have that figured out by tomorrow. I am also getting a P0102 dtc which means I may have a vacuum leak or a bad Mass Airflow Meter. I checked for vacuum leaks with a spray bottle of purple power and saw no stumble. I then went to a car wash and cleaned up the remaining cobwebs and grease around the engine and off the whole Suburban. I drove it 5 miles or so and let it idle for 10 more minutes. No major issues at all. The only thing left keeping it from perfect driveability is the small stumble at tip in. I believe it is the Mass air trouble. I may pull the cat out and weld it back in empty for better flow as plugged cats are one possible cause of the 0102 code. It may only be that sitting so long by the trees in the alley that some squirrel stashed his nuts in the tailpipe, but I doubt it since it is running so much better now.

If anyone reading this now(7/16/15) or in the future gets any helpful thoughts or ideas from reading this thread please don't hesitate to chime in. And thanks to all those who have so far.

[RADustin]

stumble at tip in is likely MAP sensor or some sort of PE I would think.

[krwyellowz28]

Happy to hear you got your burb mostly sorted out. Did you come up with a solution to the tip-in stumble? After all the issues you've fought, do you still feel the 0411 swap was worth it? I'm having an internal debate with myself right now about doing it on my '99 Burb 454. Any chance you would be willing to share the latest file that worked for you?

[SS2win]

I just did this swap on a 99 suburban and I had a problem with the tip in. Oddly enough, what fixed it was disconnecting the battery for a bit and then doing a reflash. I haven't been able to revisit the issue for a week but I think maybe the problem was due to how the VCM learned idle/tip in on first start up. I have no codes and the engine ran perfect before the swap. Haven't done the relearn yet either. Runs good.

[SS2win]

Update: I pulled the battery for a bit and had a problem cranking and running RICH so I've created a new starter tune from scratch. It seems to be doing much better. I'll post up if it continues to look good. Testing continues ...

[SS2win]

alright. Just realized I've been replying to an OLD post but for anyone interested, try this. idle still isn't perfect but I have a comp cam @110 CL. NO billowing black smoke on first crank so I'm interested to see how it works for others. LMK

Here's the notes on the tune:

454 / 7.4L Starter Tune (based on 2002 L31 Express Van w/4L80E, 1998 K2500 7.4L and 2003 Avalanche 2500 8.1L tunes)

VERSION | 0000 | 454_SS2win based on 2002 Chevrolet Express (4L80E) Van Automatic L31 5_0000.ctz
- copied VE tables from 1998 7.4L Stock Tune
- copied Crank/Start tables from 1998 7.4L Stock Tune
- copied Mixture tables from 1998 7.4L Stock Tune
- adjusted injector flow for Bosch 0-280-155-746 (Volvo / Aftermarket)
- copied MAF Table from 1998 7.4L Stock Tune
- copied Spark Tables from 2003 Avalanche 8.1L Vortec Tune
- adjust fuel tank size from 1998 7.4L Stock Tune
- disable VATS
- update gear ratio to 4.10
- update tire size for Goodyear MT / OZ 37X12.5-16.5

VERSION | 0001 | 454_SS2win based on 2002 Chevrolet Express (4L80E) Van Automatic L31 5_0001.ctz
- disable P1637 and P1638 Alternator DTC enablers

VERSION | 0002 | 454_SS2win based on 2002 Chevrolet Express (4L80E) Van Automatic L31 5_0002.ctz
- adjust B0104 to value found in 1998 7.4L Stock Tune

VERSION | 0003 | 454_SS2win based on 2002 Chevrolet Express (4L80E) Van Automatic L31 5_0003.ctz
- copied Spark High/Low Octane Tables from 2003 Avalanche 8.1 Vortec Tune (missed it in version 0000)
- copied Spark IAT Tables from 2003 Avalanche 8.1 Vortec Tune (missed it in version 0000)
- copied Spark Minimum Spark Advance Tables from 2003 Avalanche 8.1 Vortec Tune (missed it in version 0000)
- copied Spark High/Low Octane Tables from Lextech starter tune (correction for single coil ignition)

[joecar]

I did not have any answers/comments, but I was following along. Thanks for posting back.

[SS2win]

Hey joecar, seeing as others were reporting similar problems to those I was having, I decided to figure this out and thought I'd post what I came up with. It's my pleasure.

So far this tune is working well for me. My truck starts and runs well with an occasional idle hunt. NO overly rich condition that plagued the starter tune I got from Lextech (to whom I am extremely grateful for the help with the wiring file). Timing is a little weak but hey, this is a starter tune. I may update it a bit depending on what I find after I install the WB02

If anyone uses my tune, please let me know how it works either here or byte email to ss2win <at classicgm <dot com

[SS2win]

Oops. I found a few mistakes in my previous file and corrected them so anyone who downloaded the attachment please delete it and use this one.

[krwyellowz28]

Thank you for replying back with such good info SS2win. I'm swapping a '99 454 into a '70 C10. The 454 is currently in a running/driving burb, and I think the best plan of attack is to do the 0411 swap in the burb, work out any kinks that come up from the ECM swap, and then mod the harness for the C10 swap. I'll report back how it goes.

[SS2win]

I'm glad the information is useful to you. The 411 swap is really the best mod you can do. My tune should get it going pretty smooth to start with. I have over run around 30k on it now without issue. Let me know how it goes for you and if you need any help.

[joecar]

SS2Win, are you running the stock torque converter for your 4L80E (I'm just curious)...?

[SS2win]

I don't think so but it was work done by the PO so I am not 100% sure. Why do you ask?

[joecar]

I'm wondering what it stalls at, and if you made any tune adjustments for this, just curious :)

[SS2win]

Come to think of it, I used a base tune that may have had some mods to the trans. I didn't like the way it worked and so I found a stock silverado tune and did a segment swap. Don' think I uploaded that here yet. Do you see something in the tune?

[joecar]

No, I'm just curious, I just like to know/learn. :)

[SS2win]

And here I was hoping you could tell me something about it. lol cheers

Here's the last one I will post. This includes the trans seg swap with a 2002 6.0 silverado. It fixes some problems with the trans that I never bothered to track down as it was easier to start over. While this tune has worked very well for me, your mileage may vary. I would like feedback if you have any comments. Otherwise, I hope it helps.

21276

[joecar]

If driveability is good, don't mess with it, unless absolute necessary.

I'll look at that tune later tonite.

[Supercharged111]

I'll have to keep this thread in mind. I have a 411 and 42# injectors for my dually. Once I address the remaining driveability issues on my 1500 I'll tackle the 3500. I'd prefer to have a 90% solution on day 1 with that truck.

[SS2win]

Joecar, there was drivability issues with teh original transmission. forget the details. Not sure if the base tune was modified or what but the segment swap fixed it for me.

[joecar]

ah, ok, segment swap fixed it :cheers: