Read HPTuners Tune with EFILive. 2 Bar

[Black LS1 T/A]

I have EFILive. My Tuner/Shop has HPTuners.

(Tuning Speed Density)

The shop replaced my MAP Sensor with a 2-Bar (my car is a 1998 PCM with LS7 engine).
He showed me how he now has an extended VE table to accommodate my boost.

When I Read (with EFILive) the tune with my V2 that he has started (not yet complete ... still more tuning to do) in EFILive, I see the same size table, just the values have the same spread ... Like there is less resolution to the table I see in EFILive vs what he showed me in HPTuners.

Does EFILive yet have a custom OS (or some other mechanism) that will allow me to see the full 2-Bar MAP at it's full resolution in my 1008 PCM?
If not, are there any gotcha's to adjusting this table, down the line, from within EFILive?

An other information helpful on this issue would be appreciated. Thanks!

[joecar]

Is your tuner using a HPT Custom OS...? If so, then it is not compatible with EFILive and vice-versa (they don't know each others table offsets/formats).

[joecar]

EFILive does not have a COS for the 1998 PCM.

Many people swap their 1998 PCM for a 0411 PCM and then run OS 12212156... EFILive has COS3 and COS5 for this OS

( COS3 gives you 2.5-bar boost VE (and spark tables), COS5 additionally gives you TPS VE table, among other things like HO/LO adaptive spark still functioning when MAF is failed for Speed Density mode )

( since COS3 and COS5 are based on 12212156, the 4L80E trans segment from a 12212156 file can be swapped into the COS also, if you're running a 4L80E )

( note the PCM swap requires some harness connector re-pinning, and Fuel System segment swap from a 12212156 Express Van )

[Black LS1 T/A]

Thanks for the info, Joecar. I recall there was no Custom OS for 1998 when I bought EFILive the first time. I never understood why; I thought it could not be done for some technical reason.

<<EDIT: Before reading on, note as clarified later, an HPTuners Custom OS was in fact, programmed into the PCM>>

Because of that, I didn't think he actually programmed a custom OS, but he may have. I will double-check. They bought a two-bar MAP sensor and from what I understand, HPTuners then saw twice the table size. Before I left, I read the tune with my V2, and then opened it with EFILive, so I didn't think it was a Custom OS. But, being I know zero about Custom OS's, it very well may be.

Anyone bought this 2-bar? (GM part# 12580698)
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/414262394.jpg

When they bought this 2 Bar Map Sensor, I thought someone eventually (since I've been out of the loop for a while) figured out a way to get 2 bars out of the 1998 PCM, then EFILive would have it, too.

I'll screen shot the VE tables from that tune, and from the previous tune so you see what I see. But, instead of more rows like I saw in the HPTuner software, I see larger numbers ... but, not the same resolution/# of cells.

[Black LS1 T/A]

The top two images are the VE tables from an earlier tune. The bottom two are from the two VE tables he is currently working on. In it, you will see the higher range of values, but all stuffed into the same number of cells, lacking the resolution he was working with in HPTuners.

18954

[Black LS1 T/A]

And this is the previous tune (table at the top in the above post), read in by itself.
~

[Black LS1 T/A]

So I guess I'm screwed trying to tune that file with EFILive :bawl:

If I leave it alone and never tune those tables, would it be I can tune other things like vary my idle, shift points, part throttle tables, TC, etc, even modify PE ... and write the tune to my PCM without disturbing what is in the VE table he put in from HPTuners? Or am I stuck with this tune forever until I can jump into re-pinning a 411 PCM?

[joecar]

Find out from him if he used a HPT COS or if he simply scaled.

[Black LS1 T/A]

Thanks, joecar ... I left a message for him. (Lunch-time)

[Tre-Cool]

im pretty sure all that he has done is just halfed the map resolution.

so if it were a metric map, 100kpa full atmospherics is now 50kpa.

[Black LS1 T/A]

He told me he did upload an OS that gave him twice the table size to manipulate.

I guess I'm just stuck with monitoring from my EFILive right now, since going with the two-bar and SD is my best solution right now.
While tuning, we troubleshot fuel pressure dropping off at a little over 5000 RPM and discovered one of my pumps is only making 25 PSI, so it is failing.

(At little over 5000 RPM as fuel was dropping off, it made 551 RWHP/531 RWTQ).

He is going to replace that pump today and finish the tune and dyno. I'm anxious to see what it finally does.

[Black LS1 T/A]

If HP Tuners can create an OS for the 1998 PCM that at least allows using 2-bar SD tune, is there any testing or information that someone with a 1998 LS1 can give EFILive to overcome whatever obstacle kept them from developing a Custom OS for 1998's? There are a lot of us out there, and this has been a thorn in our side for a long time. What is the obstacle?

[ScarabEpic22]

If HP Tuners can create an OS for the 1998 PCM that at least allows using 2-bar SD tune, is there any testing or information that someone with a 1998 LS1 can give EFILive to overcome whatever obstacle kept them from developing a Custom OS for 1998's? There are a lot of us out there, and this has been a thorn in our side for a long time. What is the obstacle?

I'll let EFILive respond, but thinking about it from a business perspective, I dont see it as cost effective. EFILive lets you tune 97-98 LS1A PCMs for FREE. I.E. they never charge you for a VIN license for a 97-98 LS1A PCM. If they were to develop a COS for that PCM, it would just cost them $$$$ with a ROI of $0 on that PCM (retaining a customer base aside).

When you can buy a junkyard 99-02 512kb LS1B PCM for $50, it gives you inherently better table resolution AND EFILive has multiple COSs for that PCM that have been running stably for years, it makes even less sense. It's great that HPT offers an out of box solution, but I dont expect EFILive to do so considering that PCM is 18+ years old now and the business justification isn't there plus they have a solution that works with a simple PCM swap.

[ChipsByAl]

If you decide to start tuning, do yourself a favor and switch to the 99-02 512kb LS1B PCM. The 12212156 w/ Custom Operating System is the way to go. The biggest problem will be finding a bracket for the PCM. My page is back online with the documents to perform the pinout.
Al

http://chipsbyal.com/convert98/

[GMPX]

I'll let EFILive respond, but thinking about it from a business perspective, I dont see it as cost effective. EFILive lets you tune 97-98 LS1A PCMs for FREE. I.E. they never charge you for a VIN license for a 97-98 LS1A PCM. If they were to develop a COS for that PCM, it would just cost them $$$$ with a ROI of $0 on that PCM (retaining a customer base aside).

When you can buy a junkyard 99-02 512kb LS1B PCM for $50, it gives you inherently better table resolution AND EFILive has multiple COSs for that PCM that have been running stably for years, it makes even less sense. It's great that HPT offers an out of box solution, but I dont expect EFILive to do so considering that PCM is 18+ years old now and the business justification isn't there plus they have a solution that works with a simple PCM swap.
No need for EFILive to respond, everything Erik said is why it will not happen, sorry.

[joecar]

If you decide to start tuning, do yourself a favor and switch to the 99-02 512kb LS1B PCM. The 12212156 w/ Custom Operating System is the way to go. The biggest problem will be finding a bracket for the PCM. My page is back online with the documents to perform the pinout.
Al

http://chipsbyal.com/convert98/Al, thanks for the link.

[Black LS1 T/A]

First, let me say I'm not going to bash EFILive folk ... I appreciate their work, their innovation and dedication to developing their product. And look at my join date in this forum alone ... I've believed in and hung with these guys from their beginnings. But, I AM going to respond to a couple statements. (Not angrily ... just frustrated. I also appreciate you sharing your perspective, which, on one hand is perfectly valid, but I feel marginalizes me/(us '98 owners) as avid pro-EFILive customers.)


...EFILive lets you tune 97-98 LS1A PCMs for FREE. I.E. they never charge you for a VIN license for a 97-98 LS1A PCM. If they were to develop a COS for that PCM, it would just cost them $$$$ with a ROI of $0 on that PCM (retaining a customer base aside).


Really? For free? So, I supposed the V2 makes it $0 investment for me? LOL!

As for a custom OS, this 1998 thing has been a thorn in everyone's side from the inception. It's very cool EFILive doesn't activeate a license for 1998, if you use it for something else, I guess. I don't ... I am interested in MY vehicle. But, if this anomaly were accommodated as to at least give a 2-bar solution for the '98s, why not say if someone programs a custom OS, that THAT activates a license for the PCM that is programmed with it? It does NOT have to be "ROI of $0 on that PCM". :-)


"When you can buy a junkyard 99-02 512kb LS1B PCM for $50, it gives you inherently better table resolution AND EFILive has multiple COSs for that PCM that have been running stably for years, it makes even less sense.....

I haven't seen any $50 PCM's. Usually it ranges from $80 to over $100, but that little niggly detail aside, it's not the money ... it's the anxiety of what else can go wrong when re-wiring nearly 160 terminal/connectors.

But, you know what ... I guess I gotta do what I gotta do. I ordered a 2002 PCM back on Monday. I just have to decide to dive into it sooner rather than later.

Again, I appreciate you took time to respond to my questions. And this forum community, the EFILive guys ... whom I love, and guys like joecar are always so responsive with suggestions and assistance, trust me ... I take it in a good spirit. I just feel it's inconsiderate to minimize how the situation has/does affect all of us with 1998 F-Body's.

[Black LS1 T/A]

If you decide to start tuning, do yourself a favor and switch to the 99-02 512kb LS1B PCM. The 12212156 w/ Custom Operating System is the way to go. The biggest problem will be finding a bracket for the PCM. My page is back online with the documents to perform the pinout.
Al
http://chipsbyal.com/convert98/

Thanks, ChipsByAl ... I actually have your old docs from years ago and will check your updated links. I've ordered a 2002 PCM.

Just for estimate's sake ... can you ballpark how long a task (rough hours) this is for someone who has never done this, but has some experience soldering and some basic mechanic'ing?

I also heard my fuel tank gauge may not work, but didn't see that in your write-up before (I did see something about low-oil sensor and a couple issues for guys with manual tranny's.)

Thanks again ... and to everyone who chimed in on this thread.

[Black LS1 T/A]

You said there is an issue with needing a bracket for the PCM? That's the first I heard of that. :'(
So no clue on what I can do or where to go for fitment of the later PCM?

[Black LS1 T/A]

As far as tuning this T/A with the 427 (441 cid) and the D-1SC in it is concerned, when I watched the guy tune (after the issue the car had after discovering one of my dual-setup pumps was marginal and the SD implementation the last shop that had it years ago was incorrect/incomplete was fixed ), this guy's work with the VE tables went a long way. But, I can't peep what he did since I don't see full HPTuner tables.

Also, the car was going into some kind of limp mode if I did anywhere over about 35% WOT. Even after his initial tuning, I have that issue when I pour on the power (he couldn't duplicate the issue on the dyno. (Condition is it won't shift out of gear until about 3500 RPMs from gear to gear after going about 35% or more WOT. I have to shut it down an minute, and then everything is shifting normal again.).

I'm tired of spending $1000's of dollars and having incomplete results in the end. When I get the PCM wired in and flash it with the program and OS ChipsByAl and joecar references, since I have a wide-band O2 to install, I will use the VE calculation and SD tuning instructions you guys have posted and have a go at it myself. Wish me godspeed .... :-)

[joecar]

I know, there's a lot of frustrating stuff, we all hear you, and we thank you for sticking with us; I'm sure your 0411 swap will work out good.




(Condition is it won't shift out of gear until about 3500 RPMs from gear to gear after going about 35% or more WOT. I have to shut it down an minute, and then everything is shifting normal again.).
This is very interesting (to me), do you know if any DTC's had triggered when this happened...?

[ChipsByAl]

If you have soldering skills the job should be able to get done in less than a day. The plastic bracket that currently holds your 98 PCM won't accommodate the newer PCM, not correctly that is. The fuel gauge is no problem. It's all done in the PCM.
Al

[Black LS1 T/A]

I know, there's a lot of frustrating stuff, we all hear you, and we thank you for sticking with us; I'm sure your 0411 swap will work out good.
This is very interesting (to me), do you know if any DTC's had triggered when this happened...?

Thanks, joecar.

Since certain codes had to be disabled or certain mil condition (is my understanding) to delete the MAF and do SD, I did not try re-enabling them to see what codes would be thrown. I can't do it now without overwriting the Custom OS the tuner put in to extend the VE table. I'm stuck figuring anything out until I get the new PCM wired in.

[Black LS1 T/A]

If you have soldering skills the job should be able to get done in less than a day. The plastic bracket that currently holds your 98 PCM won't accommodate the newer PCM, not correctly that is. The fuel gauge is no problem. It's all done in the PCM.
Al

Thanks for this info. If my old back does not hold out, sounds like I can at least accomplish across a couple days. :-)

[ScarabEpic22]

First, let me say I'm not going to bash EFILive folk ... I appreciate their work, their innovation and dedication to developing their product. And look at my join date in this forum alone ... I've believed in and hung with these guys from their beginnings. But, I AM going to respond to a couple statements. (Not angrily ... just frustrated. I also appreciate you sharing your perspective, which, on one hand is perfectly valid, but I feel marginalizes me/(us '98 owners) as avid pro-EFILive customers.)



Really? For free? So, I supposed the V2 makes it $0 investment for me? LOL!

As for a custom OS, this 1998 thing has been a thorn in everyone's side from the inception. It's very cool EFILive doesn't activeate a license for 1998, if you use it for something else, I guess. I don't ... I am interested in MY vehicle. But, if this anomaly were accommodated as to at least give a 2-bar solution for the '98s, why not say if someone programs a custom OS, that THAT activates a license for the PCM that is programmed with it? It does NOT have to be "ROI of $0 on that PCM". :-)



I haven't seen any $50 PCM's. Usually it ranges from $80 to over $100, but that little niggly detail aside, it's not the money ... it's the anxiety of what else can go wrong when re-wiring nearly 160 terminal/connectors.

But, you know what ... I guess I gotta do what I gotta do. I ordered a 2002 PCM back on Monday. I just have to decide to dive into it sooner rather than later.

Again, I appreciate you took time to respond to my questions. And this forum community, the EFILive guys ... whom I love, and guys like joecar are always so responsive with suggestions and assistance, trust me ... I take it in a good spirit. I just feel it's inconsiderate to minimize how the situation has/does affect all of us with 1998 F-Body's.

I know you're not, I'm not trying to call you out either. We've both been around for a few years...lol!

Yes, very true that the cost of the V2 doesnt go away. I was referring to the VIN licensing cost of $0 for 97-98 PCMs; so yes if all you tune are 97-98s you'll have to split the cost of the V2 over the cars as your licensing cost.

Once you get your PCM swapped and configured (that link by Al is fantastic BTW...), just follow the Calc.VET (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-(in-single-log)) or Calc.MAFT (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16413-Calc-MAFT-correcting-VE-and-calculating-MAF-(in-single-log)-gt-reverse-of-Calc-VET) turorials to dial your VE/MAF in. (links inline)

[Black LS1 T/A]

Thanks, Scarab :-)

[Black LS1 T/A]

Plan to keep you guys up to date, so. Questions:

1. I was afraid I'd make a miss-step. There are 4 gray wires and somehow I pulled one pin over and miss-labeled. I tried to back-track and MAY have it right. But, being I did that at the worst possible scenario (4 wires of same color, GRAY at 1998 pins Blue 64-67), how can I isolate and verify those four gray wire to pin locations? I read somewhere if you had a scanner it could be easily done, but there was no explanation how.

<<EDIT: Since all four of these gray wire circuits are 5V references, is it safe to assume if I pinned everything back in and a pair of these were swapped, that it would not damage anything, even though I would get a code or some other unexpected indication?>>



64
GRA
416
MAP Sensor 5V reference Pin "C"


65
GRA
705
EGR Valve 5V Reference Pin "D"


66
GRA
474
AC Press Sensor 5V Reference Pin "B"


67
GRA
598
Fuel tank Pressure Sensor 5V Reference



2. What does "TEST FIRST!" mean on this wire:
"Red C1-36 DK BLU TO Red C2-38……………TEST FIRST! 99-02 PCM’S"
Test how? Why this one?

3. What is the difference between
"Red C1-24 BLK/WHT If present discard it and Blue C2-24"
and
"Blue C2-3 TAN delete"?
Do the "discard" and the "delete" mean the same thing? Or is something else going on?

4. And do you just tape the un-used cables somewhere or can they be tucked away into an unused pin location?

[Black LS1 T/A]

To address the Bracket difference issue raised, on mine, even though the bracket is not keyed to the 2002 PCM like it is to the 1998 PCM side-rails, I squeezed it in, and being it is wedge shaped, was able to secure it tightly, all the way to the back stops at the rear of the bracket. That was at least a mini-success story. :) I snapped a few photos:

1998 PCM in keyed location of bracket:
18968

2002 PCM "Sqeeze Fit"

18969

Pre-cut Labels ... (almost worked flawlessly. smh)
18970

Ready to re-pin
18971

It took me about 30 or 40 minutes to get the PCM out of the car.
(I actually fought with trying to get the PCM out of there until I created more wiggle room by unclipping the passenger-side cowl section and realized I should remove the bracket AND the PCM TOGETHER. Getting to the two bolts of the PCM was tricky being almost under the fender-well. I would not have wasted time there if I had just pulled the PCM up with it still in the bracket in the first place.)

ChipsByAl, I don't know if some of these experiences might help if you include them in your document. Or maybe I'm just dumb. ;)

[Black LS1 T/A]

I read this:


To make this conversion work you need to start with a 1999 up F-car tun file.
The 2002 OS 12212156 (available from http://www.tunefiledepot.com//) is a good choice for the base file.
I then used the fuel segment from the 2002 Express Van OS 12212156. (Available above )
Since the fuel tank and sender are different, I then copied the fuel system parameters, fuel gauge calibration and Convert sender to volume tables back from the Camaro/Firebird base file.


I have a question about this process. (I did read the Custom OS tutorial.)

1. When the shop that did the initial tuning tried to crank the car, he tried to initially get it started with the MAF in place, but it would not run. He took it back to the SD tune the last guy tried when had the 422 and got it started with basic programming so I could break it in before the Dyno Tune.

I know 2002 OS 12212156 is suggested and the fuel segment from the 2002 Express Van OS 12212156.
Being as my engine is from a 2009 Z06 LS7, are there any tables in the corresponding file for the 2009 ZO6 Corvette that I may need or can copy over to ease my initial tuning woes?

2. ALSO, being as how I want to use my '98 Trans Am's VIN# on this PCM, what is THAT process?
Can I flash my current '98 Trans Am's VIN to the PCM BEFORE using up a license, so that I can license the final 2002 PCM with my original VIN?

Thanks!

[Black LS1 T/A]

....
2. ALSO, being as how I want to use my '98 Trans Am's VIN# on this PCM, what is THAT process?
Can I flash my current '98 Trans Am's VIN to the PCM BEFORE using up a license, so that I can license the final 2002 PCM with my original VIN?


So ... I found this response by joecar to someone changing their VIN:


to flash the tune file to the new PCM you will need to use a new license (licences are based on PCM serial number not VIN).

Do I take that to mean I:

1. License the new PCM
2. Read the current program and save/back-up, and confirm OS number
3. FULL re-flash of Custom Operating System to PCM
4. CALIBRATION re-flash of the original saved program to PCM
5. RE-read PCM again and save to new Program file
6. Check and modify first segment in the Navigator (EFILive Custom Calibrations) as necessary to ensure "sane values" as laid out in the Custom OS tutorial.
7. Copy last column from VE Calibration into the first column of the BOOST VE map, again into the LAST column, and increase LAST column by 300%, then perform a left to right linear fill (105-285kPa)
8. Zero Boost Timing Calibration
9. Set VE Multiplier to 1.00 initially, modifying later as necessary depending on commanded AFR at stable intake temp.
10. Configure Commanded Fuel vs RPM per example in Tutorial
11. Closed Loop Temp enable to MAX and STFT Idle Enable to Disable.
12. Continue to follow Boosted Setup in Tutorial and use Semi-Open Loop to command Fueling.
13. Set Torque Limiting parameters to Max Value
14. Use Open Loop ECT Commanded Fuel Multiplier calibration to compensate for cold running conditions
15. Save the Program to a NEW file as the Base Calibration and make a backup of it

Whew!

[Black LS1 T/A]

Can I tune the VE tables properly with the MAF already disabled? Remember, I haven' been able to keep the car cranked trying to re-enable the MAF.

[Black LS1 T/A]

When I grab the 12212156 OS from the Tune Library, does anyone know if it matters whether I grab the Camaro 12212156 PCM (there is not one for 4L60E Trans Am) or the Corvette 12212156 PCM? For instance, I'm wondering if the Corvette one would have any tuning benefits to getting my car started initially, compared to the F-body (that may not be logical, but I do have the question mark in my mind).

Thanks!

[joecar]

Did you get these sorted out:



Plan to keep you guys up to date, so. Questions:

1. I was afraid I'd make a miss-step. There are 4 gray wires and somehow I pulled one pin over and miss-labeled. I tried to back-track and MAY have it right. But, being I did that at the worst possible scenario (4 wires of same color, GRAY at 1998 pins Blue 64-67), how can I isolate and verify those four gray wire to pin locations? I read somewhere if you had a scanner it could be easily done, but there was no explanation how.

<<EDIT: Since all four of these gray wire circuits are 5V references, is it safe to assume if I pinned everything back in and a pair of these were swapped, that it would not damage anything, even though I would get a code or some other unexpected indication?>>



64
GRA
416
MAP Sensor 5V reference Pin "C"


65
GRA
705
EGR Valve 5V Reference Pin "D"


66
GRA
474
AC Press Sensor 5V Reference Pin "B"


67
GRA
598
Fuel tank Pressure Sensor 5V Reference



2. What does "TEST FIRST!" mean on this wire:
"Red C1-36 DK BLU TO Red C2-38……………TEST FIRST! 99-02 PCM’S"
Test how? Why this one?

3. What is the difference between
"Red C1-24 BLK/WHT If present discard it and Blue C2-24"
and
"Blue C2-3 TAN delete"?
Do the "discard" and the "delete" mean the same thing? Or is something else going on?

4. And do you just tape the un-used cables somewhere or can they be tucked away into an unused pin location?

4. It would be better to tape off (with a note on the tape) and tuck into harness.

[joecar]

...

It took me about 30 or 40 minutes to get the PCM out of the car.
(I actually fought with trying to get the PCM out of there until I created more wiggle room by unclipping the passenger-side cowl section and realized I should remove the bracket AND the PCM TOGETHER. Getting to the two bolts of the PCM was tricky being almost under the fender-well. I would not have wasted time there if I had just pulled the PCM up with it still in the bracket in the first place.)

ChipsByAl, I don't know if some of these experiences might help if you include them in your document.

...Good point, it is easier to remove PCM and bracket as one unit, we should have said so and not assumed everyone knew.

[Black LS1 T/A]

Did you get these sorted out:

No. Any suggestion as how to make sure I can verify my routing on these (1998 64-67 Blue) would be helpful.
I still have have same questions about DELETE vs DISCARD.
Same for "test first" on "Red C1-36 DK BLU TO Red C2-38……………TEST FIRST! 99-02 PCM’S".
Test what? I don't understand what it is about this one I am testing or how to test.


4. It would be better to tape off (with a note on the tape) and tuck into harness.
Thanks!

[joecar]

I'll find out more about Delete vs Discard (I think they both mean Delete) and Test First (I think this means verify what is at the other end of the wire).

Also, I think we can benefit from 1998 and 2001/2002 wiring diagrams, I'll dig some up.

[joecar]

I read this:



I have a question about this process. (I did read the Custom OS tutorial.)

1. When the shop that did the initial tuning tried to crank the car, he tried to initially get it started with the MAF in place, but it would not run. He took it back to the SD tune the last guy tried when had the 422 and got it started with basic programming so I could break it in before the Dyno Tune.

I know 2002 OS 12212156 is suggested and the fuel segment from the 2002 Express Van OS 12212156.
Being as my engine is from a 2009 Z06 LS7, are there any tables in the corresponding file for the 2009 ZO6 Corvette that I may need or can copy over to ease my initial tuning woes?
Yes, all the injector tables, VE tables, idle tables, spark tables, and possible some others... do you have all these tables already in LS1A/LS1B form...?
If not, the some of them will have to be interpolated (if you're using stock LS3/LS7 injectors, I already have those tables interpolated for LS1B).

Is your 1998 (LS1A) tune file already edited to run the LS7...?

( sure, a good tuner can make a 1998 tune file work, but I think you're much better off running a 2002 PCM to run your LS7 )

I'll have more comments on this later, need to know what we're starting from...



2. ALSO, being as how I want to use my '98 Trans Am's VIN# on this PCM, what is THAT process?
Can I flash my current '98 Trans Am's VIN to the PCM BEFORE using up a license, so that I can license the final 2002 PCM with my original VIN?

Thanks!You can write your 1998 TA's VIN into the 0411 PCM using the V7 scantool: go Bidirectional->Change VIN.

You will also need to do a VATS Relearn (i.e. get BCM to talk to PCM), done with tunetool in similar manner.


Changing VIN does not use any licenses.

VATS Relearn does not use any licenses.

[joecar]

...

Do I take that to mean I:

1. License the new PCM
2. Read the current program and save/back-up, and confirm OS number
3. FULL re-flash of Custom Operating System to PCM
4. CALIBRATION re-flash of the original saved program to PCM
5. RE-read PCM again and save to new Program file
6. Check and modify first segment in the Navigator (EFILive Custom Calibrations) as necessary to ensure "sane values" as laid out in the Custom OS tutorial.
7. Copy last column from VE Calibration into the first column of the BOOST VE map, again into the LAST column, and increase LAST column by 300%, then perform a left to right linear fill (105-285kPa)
8. Zero Boost Timing Calibration
9. Set VE Multiplier to 1.00 initially, modifying later as necessary depending on commanded AFR at stable intake temp.
10. Configure Commanded Fuel vs RPM per example in Tutorial
11. Closed Loop Temp enable to MAX and STFT Idle Enable to Disable.
12. Continue to follow Boosted Setup in Tutorial and use Semi-Open Loop to command Fueling.
13. Set Torque Limiting parameters to Max Value
14. Use Open Loop ECT Commanded Fuel Multiplier calibration to compensate for cold running conditions
15. Save the Program to a NEW file as the Base Calibration and make a backup of it

Whew!
#1 would occur when attempting to do #3... it will ask for a license, you tell it ok (and which license slot), it exits; you then attempt to do #3 again, this time it will proceed.

For #7 thru #15: mostly yes... we may want to put in "better" values since the tutorial was written (for example, use B3647 to control non-boosted fueling, and then use PE to control boosted fueling).

I know, this is a long process... no different than if you're rebuilding your engine or trans, being meticulous is important, don't rush it, check your work.

:)

[joecar]

As far as tuning this T/A with the 427 (441 cid) and the D-1SC in it is concerned, when I watched the guy tune (after the issue the car had after discovering one of my dual-setup pumps was marginal and the SD implementation the last shop that had it years ago was incorrect/incomplete was fixed ), this guy's work with the VE tables went a long way. But, I can't peep what he did since I don't see full HPTuner tables.

Also, the car was going into some kind of limp mode if I did anywhere over about 35% WOT. Even after his initial tuning, I have that issue when I pour on the power (he couldn't duplicate the issue on the dyno. (Condition is it won't shift out of gear until about 3500 RPMs from gear to gear after going about 35% or more WOT. I have to shut it down an minute, and then everything is shifting normal again.).

I'm tired of spending $1000's of dollars and having incomplete results in the end. When I get the PCM wired in and flash it with the program and OS ChipsByAl and joecar references, since I have a wide-band O2 to install, I will use the VE calculation and SD tuning instructions you guys have posted and have a go at it myself. Wish me godspeed .... :-)


There are some MAP and TP sanity tables that have to be edited to allow for boost.

Which transmission do you have...?

[Black LS1 T/A]

I think we can benefit from 1998 and 2001/2002 wiring diagrams, I'll dig some up

Also, I have have the Shop Manuals for my car. and thanks for the feedback/advice.


Yes, all the injector tables, VE tables, idle tables, spark tables, and possible some others... do you have all these tables already in LS1A/LS1B form...?
I downloaded all the tuning files I think you guys recommended

2002 Chevrolet Camaro Coupe Automatic LS1 5.7 Litre (12212156).ctz
2002 Chevrolet Express (4L80E) Van Automatic L31 5.7 Litre (12212156).ctz
02020003.tun Custom OS in bin folder (I understand this to be the OS for 2002 LS1 3-Bar)

I'm not sure what you mean about "... do you have all these tables already in LS1A/LS1B form?"


If not, the some of them will have to be interpolated (if you're using stock LS3/LS7 injectors, I already have those tables interpolated for LS1B).
I purchased 85# Injectors that are in there. I have a boost-a-pump, upgraded braided fuel lines, two-intank pumps and stock LS7 fuel rail they say will handle HP up to 700+


Is your 1998 (LS1A) tune file already edited to run the LS7...?
I have two tunes ... the inital one that let me crank and drive it (but I could not go into boost at all), and the current HPTuners 2Bar. Both are SD.


There are some MAP and TP sanity tables that have to be edited to allow for boost. Which transmission do you have...?

I have a "built" 4L60E with the 6 Pinion Planetary that takes 1st/2nd hear ratio to 2.87/1.57

[Black LS1 T/A]

If I'm only running two-bar right now, is that the one I should use? Or does the 3-bar OS have other capabilities that I should go ahead and use that one. I'm not sure about the level of choice I should make. Does the 2-bar sensor they shop got from the Chevrolet Parts place demand that I use only the 2-bar tuning file?

Eventually , I may decide to take my tranny to a 4L80E if this one breaks too often.

[joecar]

The tables that your tuner edited to run your LS7 will have to be copied into the 12212156 file...

this includes the injector tables (for your 86 lb/hr injectors), VE table, spark tables, idle tables

( the EFILive V7 tunetool has a transpose tool to help with copying tables )

[joecar]

To run boost you can run either COS3 (02020003) or COS5 (02020005) both based on 12212156...

so get 12212156 working first (engine runs) and then we can install either COS.


Questions:
- so up until now, you were running your LS7 from your 1998 PCM with a HPT custom operating system that your tuner tuned...?
- did he get the LS7 running properly (idle, part throttle, WOT)...?
- so you are running SD (MAF-less)...?
- did he get the 4L60E shifting properly...?
- is your FPR un-referenced or is it manifold-referenced...?
- what is rail pressure (if manifold-referenced, measure with hose removed)...?

[Black LS1 T/A]

Questions:
- so up until now, you were running your LS7 from your 1998 PCM with a HPT custom operating system that your tuner tuned...?
Yes ... which is why I can't really copy over VE table, I don't think. The first tune for break-in he got it running, but no tuning for hi-rpms nor boost.

- did he get the LS7 running properly (idle, part throttle, WOT)...?
idle and part throttle was fine with no-2bar tune. It took him putting in a custom HPTuners OS and 2-bar from GM Parts to get me where I could run into boost and not go lean.

- so you are running SD (MAF-less)...?
Yes

- did he get the 4L60E shifting properly...?
No. It will run up to 7K RPMs in first, overshooting my 6500 shift points (MPH shift point is only 35 MPH in 1st), and when I back out of it, it feels like it's free-rev'ing until I'm back down in previous gear. Then, it won't shift 1-2 or 2-3 until about 3500 RPMS. IT feels ALMOST like a variation of a limp mode. I was told I may need to do Crank Re-learn ... that I should have because of engine swap. I hadn't done that and wonder if it is part of this issue.

- is your FPR un-referenced or is it manifold-referenced...?
I have the CAS Boost Referenced Regulator installed. And a boost-a-pump

- what is rail pressure (if manifold-referenced, measure with hose removed)...?
Removed, it is 60PSI. Referenced, it is just over 50 PSI

[joecar]

Questions:
- so up until now, you were running your LS7 from your 1998 PCM with a HPT custom operating system that your tuner tuned...?
Yes ... which is why I can't really copy over VE table, I don't think. The first tune for break-in he got it running, but no tuning for hi-rpms nor boost.
Ok, when you install COS3 or COS5 it may be possible to look at his VE table and approximately copy it into the COS3/5 Main VE and Boost VE tables (maybe using a spreadsheet to turn it around and interpolate it if necessary).

- did he get the LS7 running properly (idle, part throttle, WOT)...?
idle and part throttle was fine with no-2bar tune. It took him putting in a custom HPTuners OS and 2-bar from GM Parts to get me where I could run into boost and not go lean.
Ok, so you gave a 2-bar MAP sensor install at the moment, does it run properly like this...?

- so you are running SD (MAF-less)...?
Yes
Ok

- did he get the 4L60E shifting properly...?
No. It will run up to 7K RPMs in first, overshooting my 6500 shift points (MPH shift point is only 35 MPH in 1st), and when I back out of it, it feels like it's free-rev'ing until I'm back down in previous gear. Then, it won't shift 1-2 or 2-3 until about 3500 RPMS. IT feels ALMOST like a variation of a limp mode. I was told I may need to do Crank Re-learn ... that I should have because of engine swap. I hadn't done that and wonder if it is part of this issue.
Ok, we'll have to get the VE table and other stuff right first, and make sure we're not in limp mode.

- is your FPR un-referenced or is it manifold-referenced...?
I have the CAS Boost Referenced Regulator installed. And a boost-a-pump
Is the boost referenced regulator linear with MAP (i.e. constant base pressure plus MAP on top of that)...?
Do you have a link to its user manual pdf (or other info)...?
When does the boost-a-pump run...?

- what is rail pressure (if manifold-referenced, measure with hose removed)...?
Removed, it is 60PSI. Referenced, it is just over 50 PSI
Ok. ( sounds like the FPR may be linear with MAP )

[joecar]

We can copy the your tuner's VE table into the 12212156 VE table, and copy various other tables (injector tables, spark tables, idle table) and get it to start...

it helps if with HPT you can do a compare of your tuner's file against the stock file (you can download HPT and run it in demo mode);



we will have to set the VIN, and do VATS relearn;

If it starts and runs, then we can proceed with the COS3/5 upgrade...

and then you can start tuning the VE table;

when engine is able to be rev'd to above 4000 rpm, we can do CASE relearn to help with misfire detection.

[Black LS1 T/A]

Great! Thanks for all your help!

I am re-pinning the harness now, so my immediate question is:

- is the only way to "verify" a connection to check continuity or some low, but not infinite resistance between two end-points in the wiring?
Or, can it be scanned in some way with the ignition on? I'm referring to my foul-up with a couple of the Gray Wires on 1998 Blue Connector, ref:
Since all four of these gray wire circuits are 5V references, is it safe to assume if I pinned everything back in and a pair of these were swapped, that it would not damage anything, even though I would get a code or some other unexpected indication?>>



64

GRA

416

MAP Sensor 5V reference Pin "C"



65

GRA

705

EGR Valve 5V Reference Pin "D"



66

GRA

474

AC Press Sensor 5V Reference Pin "B"



67

GRA

598

Fuel tank Pressure Sensor 5V Reference




I think I did it near 64 or 65.

and

2. What does "TEST FIRST!" mean on this wire:
"Red C1-36 DK BLU TO Red C2-38……………TEST FIRST! 99-02 PCM’S"
Test how? Why this one?

[Black LS1 T/A]

And I'll download HPTuners Demo. But, I will have to ask him for the file. I had only read the PCM after the tune.

[Black LS1 T/A]

Questions:
joecar- so up until now, you were running your LS7 from your 1998 PCM with a HPT custom operating system that your tuner tuned...?
BL1TA:Yes ... which is why I can't really copy over VE table, I don't think. The first tune for break-in he got it running, but no tuning for hi-rpms nor boost.
joecar: Ok, when you install COS3 or COS5 it may be possible to look at his VE table and approximately copy it into the COS3/5 Main VE and Boost VE tables (maybe using a spreadsheet to turn it around and interpolate it if necessary).
BL1TA: OK

joecar- did he get the LS7 running properly (idle, part throttle, WOT)...?
BL1TA:idle and part throttle was fine with no-2bar tune. It took him putting in a custom HPTuners OS and 2-bar from GM Parts to get me where I could run into boost and not go lean.
joecar: Ok, so you gave a 2-bar MAP sensor install at the moment, does it run properly like this...?
BL1TA:It runs good except for overshooting shift points and the limp mode behavior I described

joecar: so you are running SD (MAF-less)...?
BL1TA:Yes
joecar: Ok

joecar: did he get the 4L60E shifting properly...?
BL1TA:No. It will run up to 7K RPMs in first, overshooting my 6500 shift points (MPH shift point is only 35 MPH in 1st), and when I back out of it, it feels like it's free-rev'ing until I'm back down in previous gear. Then, it won't shift 1-2 or 2-3 until about 3500 RPMS. IT feels ALMOST like a variation of a limp mode. I was told I may need to do Crank Re-learn ... that I should have because of engine swap. I hadn't done that and wonder if it is part of this issue.
joecar: Ok, we'll have to get the VE table and other stuff right first, and make sure we're not in limp mode.

joecar: is your FPR un-referenced or is it manifold-referenced...?
BL1TA:I have the CAS Boost Referenced Regulator installed. And a boost-a-pump
joecar: Is the boost referenced regulator linear with MAP (i.e. constant base pressure plus MAP on top of that)...?
Do you have a link to its user manual pdf (or other info)...?
When does the boost-a-pump run...?
BL1TA: From what I can tell and recall, it increases fuel pressure 1 lb per lb or boost. The Boostapump the tuner hooked up to stay on all the time; it's pressure is regulated by the CAS FPR. He also made the dual pumps work all the time. I don't have manual to the CAS Regulator; I don't know that it is even sold anymore.

- what is rail pressure (if manifold-referenced, measure with hose removed)...?
Removed, it is 60PSI. Referenced, it is just over 50 PSI
Ok. ( sounds like the FPR may be linear with MAP )
BL1TA: I believe so.

[Black LS1 T/A]

I was going to try immediately flash the PCM with the same Calibration that I read (it already had the 12212156 Program in it) and I got the following WARNING message I don't recall seeing before. (What does it mean? Is it OK to Flash the PCM or is there something wrong and I'm about to risk trashing it?)


The EFILive V8 software is not yet capable of detecting Electronic Throttle Controller (ETC) tables that are out of range.
Please ensure that you have opened and re-saved this file using the EFILive V7.5 software prior to flashing it into an LS1 ETC controller.
Failure to do so may render the LS1B controller permanently unresposive

[joecar]

Did you read out the tune from the PCM using V8...?

If so, then open the tune file using V7 and save it (overwrite the file).

Then flash using the V7 tunetool (but for Corvette, make sure you disable other modules that would chatter on the bus)...


hold on a sec, let me find out more about this...

[Blacky]

I was going to try immediately flash the PCM with the same Calibration that I read (it already had the 12212156 Program in it) and I got the following WARNING message I don't recall seeing before. (What does it mean? Is it OK to Flash the PCM or is there something wrong and I'm about to risk trashing it?)

That warning applies to vehicles fitted with electronic throttle control (ETC). If you took a tune from a cable throttle vehicle and flashed it into an ETC vehicle without first opening and saving the tune file using the V7 software then the throttle tables may be incorrect and the target PCM could be reduced to limp mode permanently.

By opening and re-saving the file using the V7 software the throttle tables are validated and updated (if necessary) for ETC operation. If you are flashing into a cable throttle vehicle or if you have opened and re-saved the file using V7 then you can ignore that warning.

The warning will exist in V8 until editing is enabled. Without editing enabled, the V8 software is not able to perform the necessary throttle table validation and/or updates.

Regards
Paul

[Black LS1 T/A]

That warning applies to vehicles fitted with electronic throttle control (ETC). If you took a tune from a cable throttle vehicle and flashed it into an ETC vehicle without first opening and saving the tune file using the V7 software then the throttle tables may be incorrect and the target PCM could be reduced to limp mode permanently.

By opening and re-saving the file using the V7 software the throttle tables are validated and updated (if necessary) for ETC operation. If you are flashing into a cable throttle vehicle or if you have opened and re-saved the file using V7 then you can ignore that warning.

The warning will exist in V8 until editing is enabled. Without editing enabled, the V8 software is not able to perform the necessary throttle table validation and/or updates.

Regards
Paul

Whew! ... want to make sure I get this right.

I had saved it, but not actually closed it and opened it back up. Since I have edited a copy of it and and re-saved it a couple times already, from what I understand, when I re-open it, this issue is not a danger?
I will also re-open the Original Program that was read from the PCM, and save it again, so if I have to revert to it, I won't be in that situation.

Thanks!

[Black LS1 T/A]

... (but for Corvette, make sure you disable other modules that would chatter on the bus)...

I bought the PCM from Flashmasters out of Cinti, OH and since it had the correct OS in it (12212156), I didn't use the base file from tunefiledepot. I did grab the 2002 Express Van OS.

Maybe I should start over and use the base file from the site, swap in the Express Van Fuel Segment, and recopy the fuel system parameters, fuel gauge calibration and Convert sender to volume tables back from the Camaro/Firebird base file as ChipsByAl mentioned?

Also, the tuner emailed the HPTuners file to me today.

[joecar]

Whew! ... want to make sure I get this right.

I had saved it, but not actually closed it and opened it back up. Since I have edited a copy of it and and re-saved it a couple times already, from what I understand, when I re-open it, this issue is not a danger?Yes, correct.



I will also re-open the Original Program that was read from the PCM, and save it again, so if I have to revert to it, I won't be in that situation.
Good idea.


For all my LS1B stuff I use the V7 tunetool to read and flash the PCM (for now, until the V8 tunetool comes out).


C5 Corvette's have the BCM, radio, suspension, climate and a few other modules also on the bus; these may easily want to talk (e.g. BCM says something if you open the door).

4th gen Camaro/Firebird have the BCM isolated from the bus (was GM thinking this would be handy for flashing the PCM...?).

[Black LS1 T/A]

Thanks, jocar. I have transferred everything from the 1998 Calibration to the Base 2002 Calibration but the Engine Calibration. Working on that now.

[Black LS1 T/A]

I performed a Full Flash of the 2002 Camaro OS w/Express Van Fuel Segment copied over. (I did not know how to treat values that were beyond the 1998 table ranges. I capped it at 15.9 gal, for instance, for the rest of the cells in F0507 when the Value would have exceeded what was in the Camaro/TA tunes.)

The car cranked and ran, though it would not idle below about 1200 RPMs (granted, I did not give it a chance to warm up.)
It sounded normal.

I had the scanner up with the default PIDsand noticed that MAP was not moving and the Fuel gauge reads EMPTY. So, I guess I screwed at least two of these pin locations up (or didn't do the values for the Fuel System Segment correctly).

(Any advice how to troubleshot and correct without me trying 4 to randomly swap these 4 wires around would be good.)


64

GRA

416

MAP Sensor 5V reference Pin "C"



65

GRA

705

EGR Valve 5V Reference Pin "D"



66

GRA

474

AC Press Sensor 5V Reference Pin "B"



67

GRA

598

Fuel tank Pressure Sensor 5V Reference




Thanks!

[Black LS1 T/A]

I can give you the base file I came up with, and the HP file, if you want to take a look at it.

[joecar]

I performed a Full Flash of the 2002 Camaro OS w/Express Van Fuel Segment copied over. (I did not know how to treat values that were beyond the 1998 table ranges. I capped it at 15.9 gal, for instance, for the rest of the cells in F0507 when the Value would have exceeded what was in the Camaro/TA tunes.)

The car cranked and ran, though it would not idle below about 1200 RPMs (granted, I did not give it a chance to warm up.)
It sounded normal.

I had the scanner up with the default PIDsand noticed that MAP was not moving and the Fuel gauge reads EMPTY. So, I guess I screwed at least two of these pin locations up (or didn't do the values for the Fuel System Segment correctly).

(Any advice how to troubleshot and correct without me trying 4 to randomly swap these 4 wires around would be good.)


64
GRA
416
MAP Sensor 5V reference Pin "C"


65
GRA
705
EGR Valve 5V Reference Pin "D"



66
GRA
474
AC Press Sensor 5V Reference Pin "B"


67
GRA
598
Fuel tank Pressure Sensor 5V Reference



Thanks!We'll figure out what to do with those cells.

It cranks/runs, good job :cheers:

We'll have to figure out MAP (PCM needs this to run engine) and the fuel level.

Attached is 2001 PCM wiring diagram, see if you can match up those gray wires (you may have to locate what is at the other end of each of your gray wires).



I can give you the base file I came up with, and the HP file, if you want to take a look at it.Sure, I'll take a look (extra pair of eyes to sanity check).

[Black LS1 T/A]

Thanks. Can you check your Private Message. I don't mind posting my tune. But, I don't want the shop to feel some kinda way about posting theirs.

[Black LS1 T/A]

The good news is, I cranked it again this morning and it stayed cranked.

I had to hold the accelerator for it to maintain about 1600-1700 RPM's and gradually let it idle down tentatively until about a minute later it would maintain about 1100 RPM's. as it warmed up, it finally idled (about 2 to 3 mins later) at 750 RPM's without cutting off. But, it is not as steady as before. If I rev'd up, it would not recover letting off the throttle fast enough to avoid cutting off without catching it with the throttle and easing into idle RPM.

But, that seems a good sign that it won't be hard to dial idle back in.

[Black LS1 T/A]

[PCM DTCs EPA Current]


DTC P0107 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Circuit Low Voltage


DTC P0443 EVAP Purge Solenoid Valve 1 Control CKT


DTC P0449 Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Vent Solenoid Control Circuit





[PCM DTCs EPA Pending]


DTC P0107 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Circuit Low Voltage


DTC P0443 EVAP Purge Solenoid Valve 1 Control CKT


DTC P0449 Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Vent Solenoid Control Circuit





[PCM DTCs Enhanced]


P0102=PCM,-FPHXNCI
DTC P0102 Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Circuit Low Frequency


P0107=PCM,MFPHXNCI
DTC P0107 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Circuit Low Voltage


P0443=PCM,MFPHXNCI
DTC P0443 EVAP Purge Solenoid Valve 1 Control CKT


P0449=PCM,MFPHXNCI
DTC P0449 Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Vent Solenoid Control Circuit


P0645=PCM,-FPHXNCI
Powertrain - Computer and Auxiliary Outputs - ISO/SAE Controlled
Description: Air Conditioning Clutch Relay Control Circuit Conditions
Cause: Engine speed over 400 rpm, system voltage from 6-18v, then the PCM detected that the Actual and Commanded state of the A/C control circuit did not match, condition met for 5 seconds


P1637=PCM,---HX--I
DTC P1637 Generator L-Terminal Circuit



These are the swaps where my eyes got blurry on four gray wires at 2 am in the morning:
After they were all out, putting in the last one, I realized I had made a miss-step when I saw a wire mis-labeled:
Blue C2-67 GRY TO Blue C1-46
Blue C2-66 GRY TO Blue C1-45
Blue C2-65 GRY TO Blue C1-47
Blue C2-64 GRY TO Blue C1-48

1998
Pin Color CKT Function
64 GRA 416 MAP Sensor 5V reference Pin "C"
65 GRA 705 EGR Valve 5V Reference Pin "D"
66 GRA 474 AC Press Sensor 5V Reference Pin "B"
67 GRA 598 Fuel tank Pressure Sensor 5V Reference

2002
45 GRA 474 5 Volt Reference (A/C Refrigerant Pressure Sensor) (Factory)
46 GRA 474 5 Volt Reference (Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor) (Factory)
47 ! GRA 705 EGR Pintle Sensor 5V Reference <<-What does the exclamation mark mean
48 GRA 416 5 Volt Reference (MAP Sensor) Pin "C"
What do the “!” mean in Pin 47?

I see this statement in the docs:
“EGR circuits will be shown for 1999/2000 conversions. The EGR wires can be installed in 2001-2002 applications if desired.”
If this is the case, since I have a 2002 PCM, can I leave this disconnected and disable the test?

Also, I have questions about:
31. Red C1-36 DK BLU TO Red C2-38……………TEST FIRST! 99-02 PCM’S
What am I testing? Why?

Since the MAP sensor is right there, I should be able to check continuity between that pin and the connector fairly easily (assuming I'm thinking the correct way about this), right. Which might make the corresponding wire it was mistakenly swapped with identifiable.

Bit I want to make sure I get ALL of them, and not keep tugging on that harness re-fitting it multiple times.

[joecar]

Thanks. Can you check your Private Message. I don't mind posting my tune. But, I don't want the shop to feel some kinda way about posting theirs.Ok, pm'd you.

[joecar]

[PCM DTCs EPA Pending]


DTC P0107 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Circuit Low Voltage


DTC P0443 EVAP Purge Solenoid Valve 1 Control CKT


DTC P0449 Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Vent Solenoid Control Circuit





[PCM DTCs Enhanced]


P0102=PCM,-FPHXNCI
DTC P0102 Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Circuit Low Frequency


P0107=PCM,MFPHXNCI
DTC P0107 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Circuit Low Voltage


P0443=PCM,MFPHXNCI
DTC P0443 EVAP Purge Solenoid Valve 1 Control CKT


P0449=PCM,MFPHXNCI
DTC P0449 Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Vent Solenoid Control Circuit


P0645=PCM,-FPHXNCI
Powertrain - Computer and Auxiliary Outputs - ISO/SAE Controlled
Description: Air Conditioning Clutch Relay Control Circuit Conditions
Cause: Engine speed over 400 rpm, system voltage from 6-18v, then the PCM detected that the Actual and Commanded state of the A/C control circuit did not match, condition met for 5 seconds


P1637=PCM,---HX--I
DTC P1637 Generator L-Terminal Circuit



These are the swaps where my eyes got blurry on four gray wires at 2 am in the morning:
After they were all out, putting in the last one, I realized I had made a miss-step when I saw a wire mis-labeled:
Blue C2-67 GRY TO Blue C1-46
Blue C2-66 GRY TO Blue C1-45
Blue C2-65 GRY TO Blue C1-47
Blue C2-64 GRY TO Blue C1-48

1998
Pin Color CKT Function
64 GRA 416 MAP Sensor 5V reference Pin "C"
65 GRA 705 EGR Valve 5V Reference Pin "D"
66 GRA 474 AC Press Sensor 5V Reference Pin "B"
67 GRA 598 Fuel tank Pressure Sensor 5V Reference

2002
45 GRA 474 5 Volt Reference (A/C Refrigerant Pressure Sensor) (Factory)
46 GRA 474 5 Volt Reference (Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor) (Factory)
47 ! GRA 705 EGR Pintle Sensor 5V Reference <<-What does the exclamation mark mean
48 GRA 416 5 Volt Reference (MAP Sensor) Pin "C"
What do the “!” mean in Pin 47?

I see this statement in the docs:
“EGR circuits will be shown for 1999/2000 conversions. The EGR wires can be installed in 2001-2002 applications if desired.”
If this is the case, since I have a 2002 PCM, can I leave this disconnected and disable the test?

Also, I have questions about:
31. Red C1-36 DK BLU TO Red C2-38……………TEST FIRST! 99-02 PCM’S
What am I testing? Why?

Since the MAP sensor is right there, I should be able to check continuity between that pin and the connector fairly easily (assuming I'm thinking the correct way about this), right. Which might make the corresponding wire it was mistakenly swapped with identifiable.

Bit I want to make sure I get ALL of them, and not keep tugging on that harness re-fitting it multiple times.I'm not sure what the exclamation means... yes you can delete the EGR.

I think TEST FIRST means see what is at the other end of the wire (if there is something).

Yes, DTC is indicating a problem with MAP wiring, check wiring, and also check terminals in connector at MAP end.

[Black LS1 T/A]

P0102 Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Circuit Low Frequency
P0443 EVAP Purge Solenoid Valve 1 Control CKT
P0449 Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Vent Solenoid Control Circuit






P0645=PCM,-FPHXNCI
Powertrain - Computer and Auxiliary Outputs - ISO/SAE Controlled
Description: Air Conditioning Clutch Relay Control Circuit Conditions
Cause: Engine speed over 400 rpm, system voltage from 6-18v, then the PCM detected that the Actual and Commanded state of the A/C control circuit did not match, condition met for 5 seconds



P1637=PCM,---HX--I
DTC P1637 Generator L-Terminal Circuit







I found the MAP Sensor wire easy enough, and the 5 Volt Reference (Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor) wire was out of position. Corrected.

Now these DTC's listed above are pending, and Fuel Gauge is pegged full (The tank may be full ... I don't remember)

The car cranks up (though low idle is difficult cold) and I see MAP now. I am disabling those, now (except to put MAF to correct setting for SD).
(My A/C is off of the car and I don't think the EVAP is operative ... I don't remember)

[joecar]

Check if your alternating is charging (what is battery voltage with engine running).

Edit: ah, I see P1637 is H and not C.

[Black LS1 T/A]

Check if your alternating is charging (what is battery voltage with engine running).

Edit: ah, I see P1637 is H and not C.

Yep ... definitely charging

[Black LS1 T/A]

So ... moving the VE, Inj and Spark tables over that were working is not letting the car stay cranked, but the base 2002 tune does (though it won't idle down low and you can tell it's quite rich). Is there a way to get this where it needs to be, starting from scratch? I have the 85# injectors.

[Black LS1 T/A]

After getting the PCM upgraded, I have been slowing ticking off item by item, things I was unaware of in transitioning to a ground-up tune for a hybrid vehicle.
My combination seems to be crazy. I talked to a tuner in Florida who says they don't touch them ... had a vehicle sit for months and it was a "disaster" ... in his words. Others will take it ...and take your money ... but, well ... you know ...

Any-hoo ... progress is being made. I don't like to leave unresolved threads, so I won't abandon this thread. But, I don't want a meandering blow-by-blow either. I will write a detailed update on what had to be done ...and the pitfalls I encountered, when completed. BIG thanks to joecar, who has texted back and forth with me (even a couple phone conversations), given me advice and schooled me on things I did not know.

Huge thanks to another tuner who provided some great theory to me and some cool history about PCM editing. I'm not sure If he wants his name out there; I'll see. But, he clued me in on some basics (but may as well be advanced to someone like me who just didn't know) that were instrumental in getting me past some road blocks.


Let me just say ... though the PCM was wired fine (after I corrected two of four consecutive grey wires I had pinned incorrectly), initially the car would not even run.
joecar advice got me past that point. Then "mystery tuner" AND joecar gave me some nuggets that got me over the hump where where I was having the issue that the Custom OS Calibration would not run.

Now that I can drive to the gas station and back ... LOL! ... I am trying to do further tuning.

What a journey! :Eyecrazy:

[CalEditor]

After getting the PCM upgraded, I have been slowing ticking off item by item, things I was unaware of in transitioning to a ground-up tune for a hybrid vehicle.
My combination seems to be crazy. I talked to a tuner in Florida who says they don't touch them ... had a vehicle sit for months and it was a "disaster" ... in his words. Others will take it ...and take your money ... but, well ... you know ...

Any-hoo ... progress is being made. I don't like to leave unresolved threads, so I won't abandon this thread. But, I don't want a meandering blow-by-blow either. I will write a detailed update on what had to be done ...and the pitfalls I encountered, when completed. BIG thanks to joecar, who has texted back and forth with me (even a couple phone conversations), given me advice and schooled me on things I did not know.

Huge thanks to another tuner who provided some great theory to me and some cool history about PCM editing. I'm not sure If he wants his name out there; I'll see. But, he clued me in on some basics (but may as well be advanced to someone like me who just didn't know) that were instrumental in getting me past some road blocks.


Let me just say ... though the PCM was wired fine (after I corrected two of four consecutive grey wires I had pinned incorrectly), initially the car would not even run.
joecar advice got me past that point. Then "mystery tuner" AND joecar gave me some nuggets that got me over the hump where where I was having the issue that the Custom OS Calibration would not run.

Now that I can drive to the gas station and back ... LOL! ... I am trying to do further tuning.

What a journey! :Eyecrazy:

Looks like it's time to scale the airflow tables for idle.

[Black LS1 T/A]

Looks like it's time to scale the airflow tables for idle.

Well ... since he has piped in, I guess I shall say "Thank You" to another extremely knowledgeable Tuner/Programmer. :)

One of the "gotcha's" that plagued me was after the 2-Bar MAP sensor was put on the vehicle, I did not know about the MAP Scaler parameter. Chatting with A.J. about my situation, and the fueling problem I was having, he almost immediately homed in on one of my problems. He asked me had I scaled the MAP sensor to the new 2-Bar. {crickets} So, after he delivered a method that looks like it fixed my gas tank gauge (It is no longer pegged full nor empty), I set the MAP Scaler to twice the stock value and I read atmosphere. I hadn't even checked the Static MAP value. :*(

So, when I am done, you will see a detailed list of issues resolved and gaffes on my part to be avoided.

Hope it helps someone ...

[joecar]

I know AJ :cheers:

Glad you got it running... so now we'll have to do various tuning :cheers:

First, did you want to get your PLX doing serial comms with FSV2...?

[Black LS1 T/A]

I know AJ :cheers:
Glad you got it running... so now we'll have to do various tuning :cheers:

First, did you want to get your PLX doing serial comms with FSV2...?

Yes sir!

19018 19019 19020 19021

The 3.5 stereo mini plug has a Y-Splitter so the serial signal can go to the gauge and another device like the V2.

[Black LS1 T/A]

I assume I could jack it in with something like this and the straight cable they supply, but so far all I've found are 2.5 mm, not 3.5

19022

[joecar]

Do you have the PLX user manual pdf (I probably asked before, but I don't remember)...?

[Black LS1 T/A]

Wait ... I found this. But, I STILL don't know if it's wired the way it needs to be:

http://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-iPhone-Headset-Office-Adapter/dp/B016S7OX9C/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1447464374&sr=8-12&keywords=rj9+to+35

19023

[Black LS1 T/A]

http://www.plxdevices.com/Wideband-O2-Air-Fuel-Ratio-Sensor-Module-p/897346002726.htm

[Black LS1 T/A]

http://www.manualsdir.com/manuals/570359/plx-devices-sm-afr.html

[joecar]

Wait ... I found this. But, I STILL don't know if it's wired the way it needs to be:

http://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-iPhone-Headset-Office-Adapter/dp/B016S7OX9C/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1447464374&sr=8-12&keywords=rj9+to+35

19023That looks like it only has 4 terminals at the RJ9/10 end...

You want RJ11/12...

You could probably modify that cable (remove the RJ10 and crimp an RJ12 on).

You would have to experiment, crossing Rx and Tx, to which what works (V2 has to be plugged into an OBD2 port).

[joecar]

http://www.plxdevices.com/Wideband-O2-Air-Fuel-Ratio-Sensor-Module-p/897346002726.htmLooks like it will do serial comms, page 2 shows a diagram showing Rx/Tx...

I can't tell from here...

if you can connect the PLX to a PC via serial comms and talk to it from the PC, then you need the null modem functionality (i.e. swapping Rx and Tx).

[Black LS1 T/A]

Looks like it will do serial comms, page 2 shows a diagram showing Rx/Tx...

I can't tell from here...

if you can connect the PLX to a PC via serial comms and talk to it from the PC, then you need the null modem functionality (i.e. swapping Rx and Tx).

It does. But they are using a USB to connect to a PC.

[5.7ute]

Wasn't there an issue with the voltages from the plx serial connections that had to be addressed. Hence the chip that needed to be soldered to the board in the PLX controller.

[joecar]

Wasn't there an issue with the voltages from the plx serial connections that had to be addressed. Hence the chip that needed to be soldered to the board in the PLX controller.
You're right...

I don't know if this new model PLX comes already fixed from the factory, or if it has the same problem.

[5.7ute]

I have one of these units on the way as my LM-1 is finally playing up. Hopefully you guys will work it out before mine gets here lol.

[Black LS1 T/A]

I hooked up my Wideband using the Analog input to the V2, and since the voltage seemed pretty stable, I decided to go with that for the moment.

When I could not get WideBand AFR 1 - PLX {CALC.AFR_PLX1} to be recognized, (because it could not see Ext. AD1), which would, as a consequence, make BEN invalid, I touched base with JoeCar for some advice about it.

He thought there might be a bug in SAE_generic.txt (he was on a drive, so could not check himself.) With that clue, I looked into SAE_generic.txt and discovered:

# PLX WBO2
# ================================================
*CLC-00-953
V 0.0 5.0 0.1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 0.2 "{EX.AD1}*2.00+10.00"
*CLC-00-954
V 0.0 5.0 0.1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 0.2 "{EX.AD2}*2.00+10.00"

I changed it to the below, and it worked:

# PLX WBO2
# ================================================
*CLC-00-953
V 0.0 5.0 0.1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 0.2 "{EXT.AD1}*2.00+10.00"
*CLC-00-954
V 0.0 5.0 0.1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 0.2 "{EXT.AD2}*2.00+10.00"

There are a number of other WB parms malformed like this as well, so be aware.

[Black LS1 T/A]

Went looking for Bugs/Issues and lo-and-behold:

https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?26071-Known-issues-with-the-October-2015-Public-Pre-Release

[Black LS1 T/A]

I've managed to get the car to drive well above 4% or 5% throttle and not too rich, but not too lean, even under 90% WOT (on the street with 28" tall Nitto's not allowing me to WOT). What is eluding me right now is idle or close to idle when I'm coming off the throttle.

After warm-up, it will idle 950 to 1000 in Neutral and 800-850 in gear (sitting still). But, if I rev and take my foot off the accelerator it dips down to about 400 and won't recover before shutting off. When I'm driving, all seems well until I go to 0% throttle. Once I am below 1000 or so RPMS, it sounds almost like the car is not even running, and I have to downshift to raise RPM's as I coast to a stop or hold the throttle about 5% so it won't stall.

I went through an Idle Tuning procedure before the PCM swap and had it idling as low as 700 with a nice lope. Now, I can't seem to get it to idle. Raising timing down low helped a bit (I tried to avoid touching timing while I was fuel tuning). But, it is not at drivability level as far as sitting in traffic would be concerned.

I've tried some manipulation of Idle air-flow and cracker tables to no avail. (Well it has improved SOME ... it was swinging wildly before between nearly stalling and about 1400. That is gone now. But, that is as far as I've gotten.)

Any ideas? What else should I be trying.

[5.7ute]

Tune file and logs would help.
You added timing to which tables? Where is your base spark set for idle? What timing gives the best map at idle for your combination?

[Black LS1 T/A]

No problem! You want the .EFI log or the Excel Spreadsheet I created?

[5.7ute]

Log would be better.
The problems you are describing sound like it is just a weak idle.

[joecar]

Tune file and logs would help.
You added timing to which tables? Where is your base spark set for idle? What timing gives the best map at idle for your combination?By best you mean lowest :)

[5.7ute]

By best you mean lowest :)

:-)

[Black LS1 T/A]

I've never posted a file. How do I get it to you? (The .ctz and .efi log)

[Black LS1 T/A]

Thought I'd mention ... I don't recall if I have: The weird transmission shift problem is gone since I replaced the PCM.

[Black LS1 T/A]

Even though I'm still dealing with the idle issue and rolling idle issue, I have kept adjusting the VE table until I have a pretty good air flow ratio even going up into the boost table range.

Then I started adjusting the timing table which also made quite a bit of difference in the power. Adjusted up until I started to see some KR, then I adjusted down in each gear / map kPa and also cylinder air until I knocked out the knock retard. Then I look up in the higher map range during boost and adjusted that out in the table where I could pull timing out in the upper kPa.

It's pulling so hard now that I am beyond my ability to tune anymore at hi throttle because it won't stay straight with the street tires. So I'm going to go to the Mickey Thompson drag radials MT Streets.

Once approximate a reasonable tune, back to the Dyno to mAximize the tune ... Surely he can fix the idle issue if it's still not resolved.

[joecar]

I've never posted a file. How do I get it to you? (The .ctz and .efi log)
See post #2 here: Hosting-an-Image (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?3064-Hosting-an-Image&p=38410&viewfull=1#post38410)

start at point 5.

[joecar]

Even though I'm still dealing with the idle issue and rolling idle issue, I have kept adjusting the VE table until I have a pretty good air flow ratio even going up into the boost table range.

Then I started adjusting the timing table which also made quite a bit of difference in the power. Adjusted up until I started to see some KR, then I adjusted down in each gear / map kPa and also cylinder air until I knocked out the knock retard. Then I look up in the higher map range during boost and adjusted that out in the table where I could pull timing out in the upper kPa.

It's pulling so hard now that I am beyond my ability to tune anymore at hi throttle because it won't stay straight with the street tires. So I'm going to go to the Mickey Thompson drag radials MT Streets.

Once approximate a reasonable tune, back to the Dyno to mAximize the tune ... Surely he can fix the idle issue if it's still not resolved.Looks like you got a base tune nutted out...

yes, you will most likely need some dyno tuning.


Post your current tune and log files.

[Black LS1 T/A]

I'll post the tune and log I just ran in my next post, and the associated spreadsheet already exported and formatted the way I like to compare things.

I adjusted my D-1SC belt tighter and boost shot up from 9 PSI to 12 PSI.
I had to add more fuel and in the boost range had to drop timing. (I modified this last night when 80 to 90% TP with my MT ET Streets was almost as uncontrollable as my street tires.)

I don't know how to do Custom Parameter in the 3-Bar OS properly yet ... all I did was modify Boost VE table to command a little fuel and Boost Timing Table to pull timing where I saw KR. But, I see at WOT, I'm getting still getting up to 4 KR in some places (I don't know how much is false ... my True Duals are banging the Trans Cross Member at times.)

So much smoke behind me (tire smoke) :hihi:

Anyway .. my AFR Gauge is showing me rich at WOT, but the logs say I average lean now. {sigh} (This is at > 170 MAP.)

I'll load in this post the snippet of the WOT where I was able to get through 1, 2 and a portion of 3 before it tried to get away from me. (Even in 3rd gear, it was pulling so hard I could not keep it straight on that street.) I may have to just work on the idle/rolling idle issue until I can tune at the dyno and the track where I can get some traction and stay straight. I don't like being reckless on public streets, even if they are more secluded.

19040

[Black LS1 T/A]

OK:
1. The Tune: 20151126aSDAutoVE.ctz (I mistakenly did not copy Hi-Spark to Lo-Spark)
2. The associated log: 20151126aSDAutoVE.efi
3. The Exported Spreadsheet: 20151126aSDAutoVE.xlsx

I tried to log some idle parameters, but obviously I screwed that up my first time .. but here it is.
4. Idle log:20151126aRAF2.efi
5. Idle Exported .csv: 20151126aRAF2.csv

I see I can't upload Spreadsheets ...

[Move'n Up]

FYI - Bundle everything together in a Zip file, then upload it and you'll be able to get around the spreadsheet upload problem.

[joecar]

Comments on 20151126aSDAutoVE.ctz (https://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19043&d=1448554009):

A0001, A0002: set these to 100%.
A0012, A0013: set these to 511 mph (i.e. max-1).

B3613: set this to 105 kPa.
B3647: set upper 3 columns to EQR 1.185.
B3618: set this to EQR 1.265.
B3616: set 3200, 3600, 4000 to 34%.

B3603, B3659: set these to EQR 1.265.

B4105: set all cells to 450 mV.

B5913, B5914: these may have too much advance in the high load columns, possibly need to subtract 6 degrees.

[joecar]

You have a 4L60E with a 2.84/1.57 gearset...?

[joecar]

VSS vs TP shift tables are not suited to street/daily driver.

D0701, D0702, D0703: can increase pressure, say +10%.

[Black LS1 T/A]

You have a 4L60E with a 2.84/1.57 gearset...?


Yes... 6-pinion planetary. I'll never go back.

[joecar]

Yes... 6-pinion planetary. I'll never go back.Yeah, I like that gearset, makes the 4L60E ratios closer, allows you to use less stall.

[joecar]

Also: keep your wideband-to-V2 analog connection, and see if you can get the serial comms connection going also.

[Black LS1 T/A]

...
A0012, A0013: set these to 511 mph (i.e. max-1).


Mine said max of 824, so I set it to 823 (-1) if you still intend I set it to 511, let me know..



B3647: set upper 3 columns to EQR 1.185.


Do you mean "upper three rows"?



B5913, B5914: these may have too much advance in the high load columns, possibly need to subtract 6 degrees.

How many columns are you calling "High load"? Which ones?

[Black LS1 T/A]

For now, I set 1.20 coum to 12, and added 1 degree per column until it matched what I already have (at column .96/1.00)

[Black LS1 T/A]

It cut off if decreased below 1500 RPMS. I waited until it warmed up, and when I manage to baby the throttle downt o 900, it would stay there. But, if I increased throttle back up to 1500, it stalled out and cut off.

Adjusted wrong table. RE-flashed. After warming about 3 or 4 minutes (weather in the upper 50's right now) it wouldn't idle off throttle. But I will drive out with that tune and see what happens rolling. I'll post result at work.

[Black LS1 T/A]

Also, keep in mind I'm in AutoVE Tune mode right now ... Forced Octane Scaler was turned off and things like TOS VE Table are disabled as well.

[joecar]

Mine said max of 824, so I set it to 823 (-1) if you still intend I set it to 511, let me know..
The intent is to have those cells in-range (i.e. eliminate the blue dogears).


Do you mean "upper three rows"? Upper 3 columns (90 kPa, 95 kPa, 100kPa).


How many columns are you calling "High load"? Which ones?From 0.68 g and up.

[joecar]

For now, I set 1.20 coum to 12, and added 1 degree per column until it matched what I already have (at column .96/1.00)Sounds good.

[joecar]

Also, keep in mind I'm in AutoVE Tune mode right now ... Forced Octane Scaler was turned off and things like TOS VE Table are disabled as well.Ok, understood.

[Black LS1 T/A]

The intent is to have those cells in-range (i.e. eliminate the blue dogears).


A0012, A0013 in my Calibration is Valet Mode Speed Limit with ETC and non ETC.

Is that really what you are asking me to change. Explanation about the changes would be helpful, so I that I can understand what I am doing. :-) Thanks!