L96 6.0 swapped into 2009 Suburban

[Nver2loud]

I moved this over from the V8 section as maybe nobody looks at that part of the forum.
Hey Everybody,
I haven't been on here for a few years but you were a great resource at the time and figured I would try here!
I had a major oil pressure issue in my 2009 Suburban with a 5.3 and decided to swap in a 2011 L96 6.0. My tuner is not all too familiar with late model LS programs and I figured I would ask around to see if anybody may have some ideas of what is happening? Now that the weather is starting to get cold I continually have the stabilitrak come in when the engine is cold, and there are drivability issues mainly when cold as well. The truck pops up the code 0601 often as well I should note.
Mid to high throttle there is never a problem, its the low throttle stuff that there is an issue with. For example, on the highway around 1800 rpm it will feel like the truck is "hovering" around different programs and can be choppy.
There was an issue where it felt like the cruise control was on all the time, like a commanded airflow was too high which has been "fixed", but now that only seems to be the case when coming down into 3rd and 2nd gear towards a stop sign.

This was tuned with HP tuners, but I have access to EFI live and pulled with that. If someone has some time to look at this, offer suggestions, etc I would be greatly appreciative.

Note: I do not have a wideband anymore as it stayed with my last car. I am up to suggestions on an economical one to purchase so I can complete some logs.

Thanks all!
Josh

BTW: A few things I saw when poking around even though I am not sure if it matters....
1. I do not see anything about the VVT, looks like it is not even being commanded.
2. The compression ratio is wrong, should be 9.6.

[Nver2loud]

No ideas? Too vague of questions? I am Looking for a place to start, but I have not received ah feedback and am frustrated to near the point of giving up and putting my old engine back in.
Please, anybody!

[Taz]

Hello Nver2loud,

A couple of questions …

The original 5.3L (LC9 ?) in your 2009 Suburban – was it a Flex Fuel compatible with AFM (DOD), and VVT ?

The 2011 L96 6.0L should have VVT, but no AFM, and I don’t think these were Flex Fuel (no Flex Fuel in my area, so I don’t tend to pay much attention to this option).

If your original 5.3L engine did not have VVT, was the engine wiring harness modified to accommodate this option ?


Best regard,
Taz

[Nver2loud]

Hi there, my original lc9 was flex fuel and afm, NO vvt. The replacement engine is Flex fuel but NOT AFM, however is equipped with VVT and I added the corresponding pins to the ecu.

Thanks in advance!
Josh


O
Hello Nver2loud,

A couple of questions …

The original 5.3L (LC9 ?) in your 2009 Suburban – was it a Flex Fuel compatible with AFM (DOD), and VVT ?

The 2011 L96 6.0L should have VVT, but no AFM, and I don’t think these were Flex Fuel (no Flex Fuel in my area, so I don’t tend to pay much attention to this option).

If your original 5.3L engine did not have VVT, was the engine wiring harness modified to accommodate this option ?


Best regard,
Taz

[Taz]

OK ... it sounds like you have the VVT wiring squared away.

I would suggest beginning with a tune from a 2009 Suburban equipped with the LY6 6.0L engine. These used the same APP (gas pedal), throttle body, and ECM OS as your 2009 5.3L Suburban.

The LY6 was VVT, but not Flex Fuel - so that would need to be enabled. The LY6 is similar to the L96, but not identical. The L96 used different (higher fuel flow) injectors - so these parameters would need to be initially configured.

To follow up with tuning the MAF and / or the VVE calibrations, you will need a wide band oxygen sensor.

You may want to consider finding a more experienced tuner. This process is not impossible for a do-it-yourselfer, but it will require a great deal of self education - which may lead to periods of frustration.


Best regards,
Taz

[Nver2loud]

Thanks for the reply. I could not find a 2009 LY6 tune for that engine on tune file depot. I saw one from a 2007, but was not sure if it was going to be the same ECM OS, and also not sure if the 4 speed transmission would have any effect on the actual tune? I think that could be part of the issues with what my tuner did as he used a tune that originates from a different ECM OS. There are no real reputable tuners close to me. If I cannot do it myself, I think the best bet would be to do either some logs with a wideband, or an Autocal from a vendor. I have not heard back on how they obtain AFR with a Autocal however, is there a way to supply information from a wideband to it?
I need to order a wideband, but want to make sure its able to be used with Autocal if I go that route.

[Nver2loud]

I am wondering if anybody can help me out here. I have been working with an reputable tuning company who many people vouch for via email and they can not seem to get it squared away either, Been working with them for 4 months. This is a stock L96 6.0, and it has much less power than my LC9 5.3 did despite all the work going into the tuning. They say my timing is pretty high, and I get poor mileage and lack of power still. I do not have a wideband connected as they say it is not necessary for my application (as it is stock), VVT has been logged and is operating as it should, the VVE tables appears to be a match to a 6.2 which must not matter too much, and my fueling appears to be close.
Thoughts on things to start checking? I wish I could just find a 2009 2500 suburban with hopes of taking the tune from it but that just seems to be like finding a unicorn. I have since having codes pop up again, and its hard to say if tis the tune, or something on my truck as the codes are P1174 and P0430.

[Taz]

... I do not have a wideband connected as they say it is not necessary for my application (as it is stock), VVT has been logged and is operating as it should, the VVE tables appears to be a match to a 6.2 which must not matter too much, and my fueling appears to be close ...

Tuning without a wide band oxygen sensor may send you in endless circles. Your fueling is likely not close - see the DTC comments below.



... Thoughts on things to start checking? ...

Impossible to say, without seeing the tune and a good log.



... I wish I could just find a 2009 2500 suburban with hopes of taking the tune from it but that just seems to be like finding a unicorn ...

Any reputable tuner can program your E38 with this calibration. It requires the use of a Tech 2 or equivalent device (not tuning software).



... I have since having codes pop up again, and its hard to say if tis the tune, or something on my truck as the codes are P1174 and P0430 ...

P0430 - is Bank 2 (passenger side) low cat efficiency ... either the cat is dead, or the tune is too rich, or the oxygen sensor isn't trimming, or ....

P1174 - is Bank 1 (driver side) fuel trim cylinder balance ... points to poor fueling, or poor trimming, or ...

[Nver2loud]

I used to have an LC1, which had an analog narrowband output. Is this recommended to try to wire this into the system and put the wideband in one of the factory o2 bungs? If that is fine, and will not screw anything up I would gladly order one and do that. If not, can I manipulate the truck into running off a single o2 sensor somehow? or would I have to weld another bung into my factory manifold?

I have attached the tune and log for viewing, I appreciate it.
Let me know if anything stands out in specific? I have ordered new spark plugs and should be here tomorrow as the have 80k on this motor, I did not change them when I installed the engine.
Thanks,
Josh

[Taz]

Thanks for posting those ...

Could add these PIDS to those already being used, and relog please:
- GM.AIRPERSEC
- SAE.SHRTFT1
- SAE.SHRTFT2

The tune in post #1 is a 5.3L tune that has been modified in an attempt to run the 6.0L.

The tune in post #9 has had segment swaps done to the Engine Operation and Engine Diagnostic segments.

Do you have a copy of the original, unmodified, 5.3L tune ?

[Nver2loud]

I will need to remove 3 PID's if I add those. I had to remove 2 to add the PID's for actual and commanded VVT. I can remove those 2, and will look and see which other I can likely remove. I have an email out to my first tuner to see if he still has my unmodified 5.3 tune.
That tune in post #1 was my local tuners final attempt at getting this truck running correctly.
The tune in post #9 was a national tuners last tune back to me, and they have not made any changes to it in over 2 weeks and the last emails back have not asked for anything further and are stating clogged injectors is the problem. I anticipate being able to send out my injectors soon to be ultrasonically cleaned, but have no spare injectors of the same size. I do have the ones from my 5.3 which were also flex fuel injectors so my hope is that they turned out to be the same part number.

I will hopefully get this new log taken today, I appreciate the help!

Josh

[Taz]

If you use (or plan to use) E85, then stick with the higher flowing 2011 L96 injectors. Having them cleaned and the flow rates checked (sometimes referred to as being balanced) is money well spent - especially if the engine had sat unused for awhile.

Do you have your own V2, or just an Autocal ?

[Nver2loud]

I was able to run out and take a quick log at lunch.
Yes, I intend to hopefully again run E85 someday. The tuner had turned that option off as they were having a difficult time getting it to run 100% on e10 as it is. I will send those out hopefully next week, my plan is to just change the injector table to the 5.3 injectors within this tune to drive my truck while they are out being cleaned.

I have access to a V2 that is a friend of mines.

Thank you,
Josh

[Nver2loud]

Just checking to see if there was anything seen out of the ordinary?

[Nver2loud]

Reviving from the dead....Still working with the email vendor, still having issues. They have since turned off the VVT, and still have issues. Roughly 10mpg, and during cold operation right when I leave in the morning it struggles. They had thought my cats were bad, but I banged on them and hear nothing.

If I get a wideband, can I put it in place of my upstream o2 on one of the banks and still have the vehicle function enough to take the truck for a drive and get a log? Could I force this into open loop somehow and have it give correct data?

[joecar]

With your hand, do you feel the exhaust pulses coming out of your tailpipes...?


You could insert a WB in place of a NBO2 to get a log, this make it run in OL, the data shows how close the MAF/VE are without trimming.

Some WB's provide NB output which you connect up to your NBO2 connector, so you can retain CL operation.

[Nver2loud]

With your hand, do you feel the exhaust pulses coming out of your tailpipes...?


You could insert a WB in place of a NBO2 to get a log, this make it run in OL, the data shows how close the MAF/VE are without trimming.

Some WB's provide NB output which you connect up to your NBO2 connector, so you can retain CL operation.


It is one tailpipe and yes I can feel exhaust pulses. I may have to try to order a wideband and hope that I can connect the narrowband output from something like an LC1 or LC2 and configure it to log.