After latest updates cannot load bootloader without checking "use alt keys"

[zapp168]

I am not sure which updates did this, but I now have two computers that used to work fine that won't flash unless I check "use alternate keys" I get a bootloader rejected security warning, one time it said error ($33) I have not done anything different than I have for years. Any ideas?

[joecar]

Did you install from here: Novemeber-2015-EFILive-Public-Pre-Release (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?26120-Novemeber-2015-EFILive-Public-Pre-Release)

Are you flashing using V7 or V8...?

[zapp168]

Did you install from here: Novemeber-2015-EFILive-Public-Pre-Release (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?26120-Novemeber-2015-EFILive-Public-Pre-Release)

Are you flashing using V7 or V8...?

I had installed the software long ago not, I went to the EFIlive site and followed the links, I am flashing with version 7 although the software switching back and forth is maddening. I just re-flashed a car I have been tuning for years and now I have to use ALT keys to get that to flash also

[joecar]

There is newer software: December-2015-EFILive-Public-Stable-Release (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?26174-December-2015-EFILive-Public-Stable-Release)

remember to also flash V2: Setting-up-a-FSV2-from-scratch (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?20699-Setting-up-a-FSV2-from-scratch)


what year/model/vehicle are you flashing the PCM on (is it the one in your sig...? if so, are you using the V7 tunetool...? you can make Windows default to it)

[zapp168]

There is newer software: https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?26174-December-2015-EFILive-Public-Stable-Release

remember to also flash V2: https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?20699-Setting-up-a-FSV2-from-scratch


what year/model/vehicle are you flashing the PCM on (is it the one in your sig...? if so, are you using the V7 tunetool...? you can make Windows default to it)

Honestly joecar, the updates and the V7 V8 thing have become an annoyance! The V8 tune tool doesn't work correct? At least on the update I have it doesn't, the tunes are in a different format, when I go to make any changes it says "must use V7" so it opens with V8 then it goes to V7 and I flash from there.
I have had this problem on the last two cars I have flashed a Trans am using an 02 tune, and a "swap" 68 vette using an 0411 computer with the same 02 f-body tune. Both cars have been flashed a dozen times (the trans am maybe hundreds) and now this has crept up, it is cold here in Boston now, so I am not doing too much tuning at the moment, but I would like to get to the bottom of this before the weather breaks and I get back on working on these. Can I correct this issue? It is nothing more than annoyance, but it wasn't like this before. As always, thank you, and sorry I am not getting back very quickly, but at this moment this is low priority.

[joecar]

Honestly joecar, the updates and the V7 V8 thing have become an annoyance! The V8 tune tool doesn't work correct? At least on the update I have it doesn't, the tunes are in a different format, when I go to make any changes it says "must use V7" so it opens with V8 then it goes to V7 and I flash from there.
I have had this problem on the last two cars I have flashed a Trans am using an 02 tune, and a "swap" 68 vette using an 0411 computer with the same 02 f-body tune. Both cars have been flashed a dozen times (the trans am maybe hundreds) and now this has crept up, it is cold here in Boston now, so I am not doing too much tuning at the moment, but I would like to get to the bottom of this before the weather breaks and I get back on working on these. Can I correct this issue? It is nothing more than annoyance, but it wasn't like this before. As always, thank you, and sorry I am not getting back very quickly, but at this moment this is low priority.I know the process is annoying (and I do apologize in general for all software engineers who get into this situation... see my note in the next post below)...

but recently, after you install V7 and V8 and you run V8 S&T, there is a button to Check Firmware, click on this and follow the prompts;

and then after than there is a button to Refresh the BBx configuration (if you already had BBX configured), click on this and follow the prompts;





Flash the latest bootblock/firmware into your V2:
- start V8 Scan & Tune (S&T),
- click Check Firmware,
- if the firmware needs updating you will see a button Update Firmware, click it,
- if the V2 BBx configuration needs updating you will see a button to Refresh it, click it (see Note below),
- click Ok to exit the firmware update dialog box.

If you had already configured V2 BBx, then click the button you see to Refresh the V2 BBx config.

. . .

[joecar]

Paul has to be able to make sure that the end user has V7/V8 and V2 correctly synchronized

( if you try to make the software/firmware automatically do that, then you will run into several problems, including running out of V2 internal flash space, falling into various possible V7/V8/V2 incompatible "black-hole" scenarios from which there is no simple chance of recovery, the software and firmware getting into diabolical update/synchronization leap frog loops, and other weird stuff (that I've seen in general when you try the make the process automatic)...

trust me (my day job is software engineer for another company here in SoCal) when I say that Paul has provided the simplest/easiest and least painful method of keeping V7/V8/V2 synchronization with end user being in control... you simply click 2 buttons )

:)

[zapp168]

Paul has to be able to make sure that the end user has V7/V8 and V2 correctly synchronized

( if you try to make the software/firmware automatically do that, then you will run into several problems, including running out of V2 internal flash space, falling into various possible V7/V8/V2 incompatible "black-hole" scenarios from which there is no simple chance of recovery, the software and firmware getting into diabolical update/synchronization leap frog loops, and other weird stuff (that I've seen in general when you try the make the process automatic)...

trust me (my day job is software engineer for another company here in SoCal) when I say that Paul has provided the simplest/easiest and least painful method of keeping V7/V8/V2 synchronization with end user being in control... you simply click 2 buttons )

:)

Pulled the car in today.... I opened up the firmware I am using V2 boot block version 2.07.07 and firmware 2.07.95 and V8.2.2.290 I am going to delete all the software and download whatever is latest and try to flash and give the exact message I am getting. Should my tunes now be in 7.5 or 8 format? Do I need to have both versions of the software? Is 8 just to update the tool and 7.5 doing all the work?

Reading and writing the tune
"Bootloader rejected Reason: Controller has returned to normal operation please retry the operation.
It shows "unlock not ready" several times, if I check "try alt keys" it says "unlock not ready" then "trying alt keys" and it goes through. Neither car did this previously and i don't want to flash anything else for fear that it is just going to mess something up.

Thanks

[zapp168]

I just read the tune of a vehicle that I have not flashed and it didn't require the TRY ALT KEY to be checked, it read it normally

[joecar]

Pulled the car in today.... I opened up the firmware I am using V2 boot block version 2.07.07 and firmware 2.07.95 and V8.2.2.290 I am going to delete all the software and download whatever is latest and try to flash and give the exact message I am getting. Should my tunes now be in 7.5 or 8 format? Do I need to have both versions of the software? Is 8 just to update the tool and 7.5 doing all the work?
...
V7 (i.e. V7.5) is used for:
- tunetool for tuning (edit tables in tune file);
- flashtool (reading/flashing mostly older ECMs/TCMs/PCMs);
- scantool for tuning (capture and view logs);
- scanner for OBD2 info (readiness tests, DTC's, modes $5/$6, VIN, calibration id/CVN).

V8 is used for:
- flashtool (reading/flashing newer ECMs/TCMs);
- scantool (not for tuning, does not yet support maps)(capture and view logs);
- updating V2 firmware and updating/configuring V2 BBx (BBL/BBR/BBF).

So if you have a V2 then you need both V7 and V8 (you need V8 to update your V2 firmware and to configure V2 BBx).


So you can read/flash using either V7 tunetool or V8.

Tune file format is the same in V7 and V8.

If you're tuning, you use V7 scantool to view capture and logs (noting that you can use V2 BBL to capture logs).


Yes, V7 is doing all the tuning work (for now)... i.e. populating maps with filtered log data and applying these maps to the calibration tables.


NOTE: in any place I wrote V7, I'm referring to the V7.5 (i.e. V7 is shorthand for V7.5), and is obviously NOT referring to the actual older V7.0.

[joecar]

...

Reading and writing the tune
"Bootloader rejected Reason: Controller has returned to normal operation please retry the operation.
It shows "unlock not ready" several times, if I check "try alt keys" it says "unlock not ready" then "trying alt keys" and it goes through. Neither car did this previously and i don't want to flash anything else for fear that it is just going to mess something up.

ThanksDoes it still say this after updating V7/V8/V2...?

[zapp168]

Does it still say this after updating V7/V8/V2...?

Yes, after all updates it does the same thing

[Blacky]

There was a bug in a very old version of V7.5 that under certain full-flash conditions would accidentally erase the seed/key values in the PCM to 0000/0000. That in turn causes the PCM to appear to be locked to the EFILive software and only by using "Try Alt Keys" (which tries the 0000/0000 combination) can you read or flash the controller.

If that is the case it can be corrected by running the V7.5 tune tool and selecting the locking option (menu option: Flash->PCM Security...). Select the correct controller type and then click on the [Check Status] button, it should show up as "Locked with a Custom Key". You should then check the "Try Alt Keys" button and enter the key of $0000 (including the $ sign) and click [Unlock]. That should restore the seed/key in the PCM to a stock/standard GM seed/key pair.

Regards
Paul

[zapp168]

There was a bug in a very old version of V7.5 that under certain full-flash conditions would accidentally erase the seed/key values in the PCM to 0000/0000. That in turn causes the PCM to appear to be locked to the EFILive software and only by using "Try Alt Keys" (which tries the 0000/0000 combination) can you read or flash the controller.

If that is the case it can be corrected by running the V7.5 tune tool and selecting the locking option (menu option: Flash->PCM Security...). Select the correct controller type and then click on the [Check Status] button, it should show up as "Locked with a Custom Key". You should then check the "Try Alt Keys" button and enter the key of $0000 (including the $ sign) and click [Unlock]. That should restore the seed/key in the PCM to a stock/standard GM seed/key pair.

Regards
Paul

Will try that today and get back to you. Thanks!

[zapp168]

Will try that today and get back to you. Thanks!

When I went into security the message was "PCM is secured with a standard key (NOT LOCKED) STATUS was a green check mark. However this time when I flashed it went through. I tried again and it worked, I tried to flash in V8 and got $054a boot loader failed to start, I have not tried again. The second car same thing happened.
I did note that it scrolled "PCM reports not secured" then "PCM has been re-armed"

I have some adjustments to make I will post the results when I attempt to re-flash. Should I be using 7.5 or 8 to flash?

Thanks

[Blacky]

When I went into security the message was "PCM is secured with a standard key (NOT LOCKED) STATUS was a green check mark. However this time when I flashed it went through. I tried again and it worked, I tried to flash in V8 and got $054a boot loader failed to start, I have not tried again. The second car same thing happened.
I did note that it scrolled "PCM reports not secured" then "PCM has been re-armed"

I have some adjustments to make I will post the results when I attempt to re-flash. Should I be using 7.5 or 8 to flash?

Thanks

I recommend using V8 to read/flash, V8 is more robust and stable than V7.
After getting the $054A error (or any error) when attempting to read/flash with V8 can you please locate the trace file in the folder: \My Documents\EFILive\V8\Trace that matches the attempt that just failed and email me that trace file. Email it to paul@efilive.com.

Regards
Paul