Beginner help with LML tune

[racintj]

I recently purchased EFI Live and V2. I'm trying to find help on tuning a 2012 Duramax LML. I've read the LML tutorial, the FAQs, and any other post that I could find, but I can't find any information on where to start for tuning an LML. It seems that everyone is very tight-lipped about this stuff. Could someone point me in the right direction?

[S Phinney]

No disrespect intended but you need a very good understanding of the previous versions in respect to tuning. That will get you somewhat started. You can then throw most if that away and start over if you know what I mean by that. Do you plan on just mild tuning or delete tune img?

[racintj]

No disrespect intended but you need a very good understanding of the previous versions in respect to tuning. That will get you somewhat started. You can then throw most if that away and start over if you know what I mean by that. Do you plan on just mild tuning or delete tune img?

I appreciate the reply and any help. I'm not sure how to get a good understanding of the previous versions, when I just purchased the latest (v7.5 & 8). I do plan on just mild tuning, but I do want to delete DEF and EGR. DPF regens are rediculous (happen too often), and the mileage goes to squat. Basically stock otherwise, I do want to add a lift pump to save the remaining life of the brand new cp4 (Bosch fuel pump). Will probably do a cp3 conversion in the near future as well. No plans for bigger turbo or injectors, or anything like that.

I do know my way around most software, and I get comfortable rather quickly. I'm an owner in a software company, so I'm used to seeing different User Interfaces and adapting quickly. Not saying I'm genius, but I'm sure that I can learn and I'm willing to put forth the effort.

Again, any help is much appreciated, even if it's just pointing me in the right direction. At this point, any tutorials that I've read have been a small help, at best.

[$chultz38]

Just buy a tune from one of the big tunes and be done. You might know other software but efilive is more than a software you have too understand what your changes that you are making are doing
Also not everything is marked out like older generations so a LML is not a truck that you learn on anyway!

[racintj]

Just buy a tune from one of the big tunes and be done. You might know other software but efilive is more than a software you have too understand what your changes that you are making are doing
Also not everything is marked out like older generations so a LML is not a truck that you learn on anyway!

I don't get it. I thought this was a forum for EFILive, a software that is sold, and used to tune vehicles. I would assume that the format of said forum would be to encourage as much activity as possible, as to increase the opportunity to sell more software, and/or VINs. In actuality, it seems that you only get discouragement on why you shouldn't use the tuning software that you just purchased...seems a bit counter-intuitive to me.

Please don't misunderstand or misinterpret this reply, as many electronic messages are misinterpreted. I'm sure that most, if not everyone, on here are much more knowledgeable than me on this product. As in my original post, I'm only asking for a little help...point in the right direction...and as of now, I'm only hearing why I shouldn't have purchased. When I mentioned that I know other software, it was only to note that a different UI doesn't scare me...as it does most people. It's just like a college education: you don't know anything, it's just to prove to your first employer that you were willing to put up with 4 years of crap...and you'll learn everything you need in that first year of "real" business.

I would gladly purchase a tune from someone, but only if it's unlocked. I will learn this one way or another; even if I scatter the internals all over the road.

I do have a 2007 L92 that I could practice on, but that ECM is an E38, and it's my understanding that's another beast as well. What'll I do?!

[S Phinney]

Nobody is selling unlocked tunes these days. It will take you many months time if not years to acclimate yourself in respect to tuning this truck. That's why I said you should know something to start with. I understand you have to start some place. That's what I did as well. That was six years ago. I tune trucks for guys as well. I don't push my tuning on people or market it as others do. I would give you some pointers but it is very complicated with this version truck. If you take care of torque management you will pick up a decent amount of power in itself.

[IdahoRob]

Start with the peddle position to desired torque tables. Make small changes and test. This will help the dead peddle issue with stock trucks.

[THEFERMANATOR]

EFILIVE USED to be an open software exchange where everybody pooled together there knowledge to make better tunes than the canned tunes that were available. What happened from what I have seen is people started selling tunes to others who didn't want to tune there trucks, or gave up on trying to learn, and before you knew it it all became commercialized. People used to share there work and tunes with others to learn, but then others would come in and take those tunes, resell them as there own to make a buck off of somebody elses work, and claim how great a tuner they were when in reality they didn't know how to tune, just to steal others work. When I first got into this back in 09, it was still semi open to sharing your work, but getting commercialized and locking down. I know I lucked out and got some help from somebody else who was just starting out when others did like above and said buy a tune from somebody. Once I got a grasp on the tuning concept, I started tuning others stuff for them UNTIL I found out I had spent 2 weeks of my time helping somebody tune whta I THOUGHT was his truck, only to find out it was a customers truck that I had just helped him build a tune for. Since then I have been a bit more stingy with offering help to others. As to LML's, they are a whole nother ballgame to tune from what I have gathered, and after everything I have read, I decided to not get into tuning them. If you do try it out, be prepared for an EXTREME learning curve. Make SMALL changes, and keep track of what everything does. And as many have found, no 2 LML's seem to be the same as far as tuning, they all have there quirks.

[S Phinney]

This is very true.

[racintj]

THEFERMANATOR and S Phinney
Thanks for some honest help. I somewhat get it that people want to be protective, but the bad pills in the bunch take the fun out for the rest of us. I have no interest in doing this commercially. I have my own fleet of GM vehicles, along with my family's few. I want to be able tweak and play with the tuning. Nothing more.

I will heed the advice you've given and do a little digging in.

[racintj]

Start with the peddle position to desired torque tables. Make small changes and test. This will help the dead peddle issue with stock trucks.
Thanks to you too IdahoRob, advice is much appreciated.

[THEFERMANATOR]

If I had any LML experience i would help yu out, but I haven't even touched one yet(and quite honestly have no desire to). I've done 01-010 diesels, and have a decent grasp on them, but thats as far as I've gone. We all started somewhere though. Like said above, don't take all the labels to heart as some functions don't do exactly as described, or they also work with other tables not listed. The LML has proven to be a fickled demon, even for experienced tuners who do this everyday they have proven to be troublesome. Just remember what works for one truck, may not transfer over to another as each LML seems to be a bit different. The best description of the LML I have been given is they are all like snowflakes. They are all the same, yet all different. Hence why I like my LB7, it does exactly what I tell it to, nothing more, nothing less. LLY's can be another story, LBZ's aren't to bad, and LMM's have oompteen dozen limiters, and hidden tables for idle, nuetral, and so on that don't always make sense.

[S Phinney]

Do you have your stock file to start with? If so go to pedal position to torque and and 10 percent up to 50 mm3. Then blend the next four cells up. You should notice a difference in throttle response.

[racintj]

Do you have your stock file to start with? If so go to pedal position to torque and and 10 percent up to 50 mm3. Then blend the next four cells up. You should notice a difference in throttle response.

Is this where you're talking about (pic)?19082

[S Phinney]

Yes that is it.

[killerbee]

RacinTJ, where do you live?

[racintj]

RacinTJ, where do you live?
Florida. Why?

[S Phinney]

Where at in Florida? I'm in the Tallahassee area.

[racintj]

Where at in Florida? I'm in the Tallahassee area.
Central FL. Lakeland.

[Jud]

What do you consider a mild tune?For more power your going to want to add some fuel and mess with the timing.

[racintj]

What do you consider a mild tune?For more power your going to want to add some fuel and mess with the timing.
Yes, that's exactly what I want to do. I made the changes for throttle position to Torque. Which tables do I use for timing and fuel?

[Jud]

The injection pulses is where you want to add fuel.Start with the bottom right of the table and don't add a lot.I would also find a timing calculator and use that to figure out timing.Is this the first diesel you have ever messed with?

[racintj]

The injection pulses is where you want to add fuel.Start with the bottom right of the table and don't add a lot.I would also find a timing calculator and use that to figure out timing.Is this the first diesel you have ever messed with?
On my own, yes, my first. I've helped with some LLY and LB7 builds.

[Dmaxink]

I recently purchased EFI Live and V2. I'm trying to find help on tuning a 2012 Duramax LML. I've read the LML tutorial, the FAQs, and any other post that I could find, but I can't find any information on where to start for tuning an LML. It seems that everyone is very tight-lipped about this stuff. Could someone point me in the right direction?

Your end goal is to get 130mm3 (fuel fuel, or close to it) at WOT. Once you have that through the gears, you know you killed enough torque limits.

From that point, move on to timing. A quick look will tell you do 1000uS=10*, 2000uS=20*, 3000uS=30*. Interpolate from there...

Lml have a latency on turning the injectors off, so just in quick, add a extra 4* to everything and it will have you within the range. Don't go over 1550uS on stock cp4, it'll drain the rail. So 1400uS and 18* timing and it will run fine. These things peak around 36lbs boost. Only run as much boost as you need to clean it up and keep egts in check. Airflow and fuel make torque and power... The quicker and more efficient you can make it happen, the more it makes.

Good luck!

[racintj]

Your end goal is to get 130mm3 (fuel fuel, or close to it) at WOT. Once you have that through the gears, you know you killed enough torque limits.

From that point, move on to timing. A quick look will tell you do 1000uS=10*, 2000uS=20*, 3000uS=30*. Interpolate from there...

Lml have a latency on turning the injectors off, so just in quick, add a extra 4* to everything and it will have you within the range. Don't go over 1550uS on stock cp4, it'll drain the rail. So 1400uS and 18* timing and it will run fine. These things peak around 36lbs boost. Only run as much boost as you need to clean it up and keep egts in check. Airflow and fuel make torque and power... The quicker and more efficient you can make it happen, the more it makes.

Good luck!

Dmaxink, I really appreciate the sharing of your knowledge. This is great stuff. Not that I can totally interpolate the full understanding of this yet, but it definitely gives me much more logic than I had previously. It's starting to make sense to me, but it hasn't totally "clicked" yet.

When you mention "tuning the injectors off", do you mean that they flatline, or they actually fall off? Does a lift pump help with this? And again, I'm assuming the lift pump will help with sustaining the cp4 (brand new as of last month) to keep from draining the rail...as bad?

[Dmaxink]

Dmaxink, I really appreciate the sharing of your knowledge. This is great stuff. Not that I can totally interpolate the full understanding of this yet, but it definitely gives me much more logic than I had previously. It's starting to make sense to me, but it hasn't totally "clicked" yet.

When you mention "tuning the injectors off", do you mean that they flatline, or they actually fall off? Does a lift pump help with this? And again, I'm assuming the lift pump will help with sustaining the cp4 (brand new as of last month) to keep from draining the rail...as bad?

Sorry, I meant from when the injectors are commanded to stop flowing after letting off throttle vs when they actually stop flowing. You can command 1500uS in the duration table, however, the injectors are actually staying on for longer than that.

1500uS without a lift pump is pushing it, some take more and some take less. Push on it and make changes by 50-100uS at a time.. Once actual fuel pressure starts falling from desired, then you know you are at the limits of the fuel pump.

[racintj]

Sorry, I meant from when the injectors are commanded to stop flowing after letting off throttle vs when they actually stop flowing. You can command 1500uS in the duration table, however, the injectors are actually staying on for longer than that.

1500uS without a lift pump is pushing it, some take more and some take less. Push on it and make changes by 50-100uS at a time.. Once actual fuel pressure starts falling from desired, then you know you are at the limits of the fuel pump.

Ok, that makes sense. Thanks again. I'll make some changes and see what happens.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Don't forget though there is also a delay in the time it takes for the injector to begin to flow as well. not sure what it is for the LML as I haven't played with one yet to see, but the earlier non piezo type injectors had roughly a 90-100 usec delay in turning on. This means if you commanded 90 usec for the pulse width, it wouldn't actually inject any fuel due to the delay in the pressure differential to allow the injector to saturate the injector solenoid, create enough charge to open the bypass valve, and for the injector to pop and flow fuel.

[S Phinney]

Don't forget though there is also a delay in the time it takes for the injector to begin to flow as well. not sure what it is for the LML as I haven't played with one yet to see, but the earlier non piezo type injectors had roughly a 90-100 usec delay in turning on. This means if you commanded 90 usec for the pulse width, it wouldn't actually inject any fuel due to the delay in the pressure differential to allow the injector to saturate the injector solenoid, create enough charge to open the bypass valve, and for the injector to pop and flow fuel.
There isn't nearly the delay in the electronic piezo injectors.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Didn't think there was, but haven't tried one yet to see. I know in theory the piezo crystal responds MUCH faster than an electro magnetic coil does.

[sonoma98]

Your end goal is to get 130mm3 (fuel fuel, or close to it) at WOT. Once you have that through the gears, you know you killed enough torque limits.

From that point, move on to timing. A quick look will tell you do 1000uS=10*, 2000uS=20*, 3000uS=30*. Interpolate from there...

Lml have a latency on turning the injectors off, so just in quick, add a extra 4* to everything and it will have you within the range. Don't go over 1550uS on stock cp4, it'll drain the rail. So 1400uS and 18* timing and it will run fine. These things peak around 36lbs boost. Only run as much boost as you need to clean it up and keep egts in check. Airflow and fuel make torque and power... The quicker and more efficient you can make it happen, the more it makes.

Good luck!

Why do you recommend only running enough boost to clean it up? Why not just let it run as high as it'll go? Is it just the risk of blowing stuff up?

[S Phinney]

Two reasons are heat and turbo efficiency. The right combination makes more power, last longer and is more fun to drive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[THEFERMANATOR]

Why do you recommend only running enough boost to clean it up? Why not just let it run as high as it'll go? Is it just the risk of blowing stuff up?

Anymore boost pressure than what is needed is just wasted power use and actually REDUCES your power output. To make boost pressure you also have to add exhaust back pressure. Adding exhaust pressure decreases the engine's efficiency, and reduces the cylinders ability to exhaust the gases. So adding excess boost simply reduces the engines efficiency COSTING you power output.

[VinceM]

What are all the parameters you guys end up changing for something like a 70hp tune for a LML

Pedal Position to torque, Injection Pulse, Injection timing? I made some modifications to pedal pos to torque, dont really have a dead peddle issue then made some adjustments to injection pulse made very very small changes but on first start sounded like a race cam when I started it I shut it off and changed back to previous tune I am assuming I need to adjust timing?

What are your guys starting points and procedure when tuning a lml that maybe you didnt have a tune for what the truck owner wants?
if anyone is intested in helping me build a solid new tune for some cash then let me know im just trying to learn I think im on the right path just looking for tips

[WolffXIII]

Not sure if I can post links or not. So I wont. But Starlight Diesel offers a great course for learning how to tune your Duramax with EFI Live. Don't bother looking to download it, that is impossible, but you really don't need to attend one of there courses either (depending on how you learn) their book covers everything.

[desltech]

I have took a class years ago and enjoyed it Zach was great and yes the book covers a lot of detail on making changes on earlier model set ups.

[WolffXIII]

Then the next step (if you understand the core concept, and yes that is vague) but take a tune, that adds power, or does a delete, or is set up for towing, then compare to the stock tune, learn what they changed, and why. When you get into specifics about EFI Live and what the parameters are that you are changing, well that is where this forum is perfect. In all honesty the difference between a Tuner and someone that wants to get into tuning, is just the Tuner knows where to look to get the answers he needs. We don't know everything, and anyone that says they do, well I'm sure we could think of a couple motors to throw at them and see how they build a tune, or fail to do so. lol.

[VinceM]

I dont have any modified tunes which sucks, wish I had just something I could look at just to see it would be really helpful like when it comes to the modes if some get modified or just duplicated or left alone I am able to see what some do in mode assignment and havn't been messing with regen modes and stuff like that until I know how much a parameter can be modified when the trucks in a certain mode.