Cobalt SS Supercharged KR question

[izcain]

Guy I have been logging and dialing in my maf on this cobalt SS and I have ran across something that has me wondering.

2007 Cobalt SS
2.8 pulley, 60lb injectors, dual pass,LS4 TB, ZZP intake, ect.

When logging I added the KR pid and along with it, it is showing KNKRET. I show very little KR during my log which does not stay, it zeros out right away but my KNKRET is showing a constant knock retard. Even at idle it is saying .7-.9 and varies with throttle. I do not hear any noticeable knock. Which pid in the P12 pcm should I be paying more attention to?

The timing is based off of a base tune from a reputable company and seemed to have some pretty safe numbers in it. Just curious why one is differing from the other?????

Here is the log and tune. I realized also I have a couple pids to many. I have fixed that since.

[joecar]

What fuel are you running...?

[izcain]

Hi joe!

Strictly 92 in the car from shell or chevron. NO cheap stuff. I know none of it is the best anymore though.

[izcain]

Whats wierd is when I am recording all it shows is the kr which registers nothing for most all of the drive. A little knock (1.4) when accelerating on the highway before up to temp then it backs right off and doesnt knock at all otherwise even when into the throttle a good amount. But when I look at the log there is an additional pid that was not there when I started recording and it is the KNKRET pid. For some reason it seems to add both pids when playing back the log.

[joecar]

I'm not sure which pid is the one...

are you saying KNKRET adds on top of KR...?

[izcain]

I'm not sure which pid is the one...

are you saying KNKRET adds on top of KR...?

No I'm just saying that I only am logging kr in my normal log but when I replay the log I am seeing kr and also knkret pids. The knkret pid just doesn't seem to make sense because it displays from.8 to 2.7 at all times which makes me think something is goofy!

[izcain]

Ok well I have discovered that the P12 uses KR not KRKRET hence the false read outs from that one being selected I believe.

[slows10]

No I'm just saying that I only am logging kr in my normal log but when I reply the log I am seeing kr and also knkret pids. The knkret pid just doesn't seem to make sense because it displays from.8 to 2.7 at all times which makes me think something is goofy! Seems like the only time I reply nowadays in the 4 cylinder section for any 1998- 2006-2007 ish GM anything, cobalt, cavalier, S10, whatever 4 cyls in these years and then some, PO8-P12- P10 etc etc. Actually 6 cylinder trailblazer stuff is a farce as well. IT is to WARN people of the serious Debacle efilive and the guy they hired to produce valid calibrations that actually resemble what GM originally installed in any of the pcm familys i just described. You will pull your freakin hair out trying to make half those calibrations do what you want. THEY aint even close. Absolutely nothing is correct to put together the goofiest tune just to get by.PID selections are nothing close to what gm actually put in these pcms. Try to adjust dtc codes?? Yes that will not work either. Injector fuel rates ya that isnt even close either. But you may or may not be lucky with the car your tuning. I have done 50 four cylinder cars as far as tuning. three have been with efilive, and forty seven others no problem with the other guys. As I have said before it kills me to speak the truth about a software I was so fond of for the first 25 minutes of ownership. Hey if your going to tune 8 cylinder gm cars it is the best. Which we are now into. PM me for additional help you will not receive from efilive regarding any of the above pcms.

[slows10]

I'm not sure which pid is the one...

are you saying KNKRET adds on top of KR...?

Come on joe, It makes no freakin sense and you know it. Its a joke at best. I know you genuinely care, but if you ever actually tried anything with these cars you would be disturbed. You have tried to help me in the past with these issues only to end in a dead thread as well as many other people with these engines and pcms. Nothing hard about it but zero effort from efi live crew.

[izcain]

Seems like the only time I reply nowadays in the 4 cylinder section for any 1998- 2006-2007 ish GM anything, cobalt, cavalier, S10, whatever 4 cyls in these years and then some, PO8-P12- P10 etc etc. Actually 6 cylinder trailblazer stuff is a farce as well. IT is to WARN people of the serious Debacle efilive and the guy they hired to produce valid calibrations that actually resemble what GM originally installed in any of the pcm familys i just described. You will pull your freakin hair out trying to make half those calibrations do what you want. THEY aint even close. Absolutely nothing is correct to put together the goofiest tune just to get by.PID selections are nothing close to what gm actually put in these pcms. Try to adjust dtc codes?? Yes that will not work either. Injector fuel rates ya that isnt even close either. But you may or may not be lucky with the car your tuning. I have done 50 four cylinder cars as far as tuning. three have been with efilive, and forty seven others no problem with the other guys. As I have said before it kills me to speak the truth about a software I was so fond of for the first 25 minutes of ownership. Hey if your going to tune 8 cylinder gm cars it is the best. Which we are now into. PM me for additional help you will not receive from efilive regarding any of the above pcms.


I understand where you are coming from as the software has been great with all the other vehicles I have tuned. Once going into the 4 cylinder realm though there is not very many tables at all that it will allow you to work with. Basics really is all.

Since I didn't feel like buying a whole other program I had sent the pcm to a place and had them put on a canned tune that I knew would be safe then I just have been working on dialing in the maf and spark tables. It has worked well for this purpose other then the knock readings lol.

The more I play with the Car the more I will probably just invest in the other software though so that I can have access to all of the parameters.

[GMPX]

Seems like the only time I reply nowadays in the 4 cylinder section for any 1998- 2006-2007 ish GM anything, cobalt, cavalier, S10, whatever 4 cyls in these years and then some, PO8-P12- P10 etc etc. Actually 6 cylinder trailblazer stuff is a farce as well. IT is to WARN people of the serious Debacle efilive and the guy they hired to produce valid calibrations that actually resemble what GM originally installed in any of the pcm familys i just described. You will pull your freakin hair out trying to make half those calibrations do what you want. THEY aint even close. Absolutely nothing is correct to put together the goofiest tune just to get by.PID selections are nothing close to what gm actually put in these pcms. Try to adjust dtc codes?? Yes that will not work either. Injector fuel rates ya that isnt even close either. But you may or may not be lucky with the car your tuning. I have done 50 four cylinder cars as far as tuning. three have been with efilive, and forty seven others no problem with the other guys. As I have said before it kills me to speak the truth about a software I was so fond of for the first 25 minutes of ownership. Hey if your going to tune 8 cylinder gm cars it is the best. Which we are now into. PM me for additional help you will not receive from efilive regarding any of the above pcms.

If it is 'that' bad then we can pull these .calz files out for good and be done with it and not offer any form of support for this range of PCM's ever again, you are right they weren't created by EFILive we just did the read/write routines, it was done almost as a favour for customers that asked for them and that person you speak of was tuning them with what he had, we thought it would work out ok as they were having good results.
The code is beyond awful in these PO8-P12-P10 PCM's which is why I never put my hand up to map them or even oversee the mapping of them. Sorry it has ended up like this, I will discuss with everyone here once they are back from holidays about what to do, removing them from the software for good is fine by me because I will not go back and revisit them.

[izcain]

That would certainly be a bummer.

[GMPX]

That would certainly be a bummer.
I agree but it is a tricky situation to get it fixed.

[izcain]

Well for the record I am not complaining about it I am happy to be able to tune the multitude of vehicles and joecar has always been extremely helpful to me and has helped me out on many occasions. So thank you guys!


I have had decent luck doing what I needed to with it and the p12 so far. Just additional tables would be awesome.*

If there was things added in the future it would be awesome, if not I understand!

[joecar]

Come on joe, It makes no freakin sense and you know it. Its a joke at best. I know you genuinely care, but if you ever actually tried anything with these cars you would be disturbed. You have tried to help me in the past with these issues only to end in a dead thread as well as many other people with these engines and pcms. Nothing hard about it but zero effort from efi live crew.

Well for the record I am not complaining about it I am happy to be able to tune the multitude of vehicles and joecar has always been extremely helpful to me and has helped me out on many occasions. So thank you guys!


I have had decent luck doing what I needed to with it and the p12 so far. Just additional tables would be awesome.*

If there was things added in the future it would be awesome, if not I understand!

Yes, I care, and I want to make it work, if I can, and I try to learn/understand it as best as I can.


A couple of months ago, the last thing I did with the E39 was try to exceed the 7000 rpm rev limiter, and was not able to.

[izcain]

Well just need to tackle the hunting idle once in awhile and I would be happy.

Looks like the only table is the injector vrs map scale, since mine has the 60 Siemens injectors I wonder if doing something in the table in the idle vacuum area would help at idle only to help control them a little better at idle.

I'll post a log tomorrow of idle and what it is doing.

[joecar]

Well just need to tackle the hunting idle once in awhile and I would be happy.

Looks like the only table is the injector vrs map scale, since mine has the 60 Siemens injectors I wonder if doing something in the table in the idle vacuum area would help at idle only to help control them a little better at idle.

I'll post a log tomorrow of idle and what it is doing.Post your tune, we'll have a look...

[izcain]

Ok here ya go Joe

Included a log of idle and it should show it surging and whatnot.
Also here is a log of the cruise home.

It is extremely jumpy in 1st and second gear, if you take off easy no problem or if you hammer it out of the gate no problem. But if you just try to accelerate smoothly but quickly it wants to buck and jerk when shifting to second. Im thinking it is just because of the larger LS4 throttle body I have installed.

Thanks guys for any help you can provide!

[izcain]

Ok,
So I have noticed that the closer I get the fuel trims to 0 without any load the worse the surge will get. So I reverted back to the additional fuel at idle and noticed also that if I turn on everything I can in the car and put as much load on the car as I can while idling it is a lot smoother idle. I have checked for any vacuum leaks and found non.

[joecar]

ok, I'm looking at your files.

[joecar]

Hmmm, weird log, for various reasons (some pids are wrong, MAP/RPM/SPARKADV are cycling in sync with HO2S11)...

[izcain]

Yea I am finding the pids do some funny things.

On a side note I have taken the low octane tables and smoothed the idle area (it had a nasty jump in one spot) I copied the high to low in the idle area and then took out like 3 degrees. Only for idle though. This has seemed to smooth it that much more. Maybe its just me.

[izcain]

I know that one of the knock pids are goofy I keep meaning to remove the one that is goofy but I forgot.

[joecar]

Spark does have a large effect on idle stability.

[izcain]

Yea it did help some but at temp without any load on the electrical it will still begin to surge although not as bad.

I wish we had a throttle body scaler parameter I think this would cut down the jerky low load area. The bounce that can get going when trying to accelerate from first to second can be quite annoying lol

[izcain]

So I know I keep coming back to this but I figure the more documentation the better it will be for myself and for others maybe looking at similar problems.

I have noticed what I believe is false knock. It jumps from 0 to 6 and then immediately tapers off to 0 thought a few frames..... This is right when pe activates also.

I am not commanding alot of timing and have a pretty safe setting in comparison to some others in the ecotec community from what I have researched.

Other times before pe activates it will begin to log kr but it is also an immediate jump up due to quickly changing throttle like it will be 0 in one frame and 3.2 in the next frame but then immediately back right back down to zero over a couple of frames. I have heard that the ecotec engine is famous for this. Should I not be worried about it since it tapers off immediately even though throttle position and load are not changing? as a general rule of thumb?

[joecar]

If you see it when throttle is suddenly increased, then it might be preemptive retard (aka burst knock retard).