Head Cam Intake ls1 2002 trans am

[oreobadr]

So I got done building my trans am last summer but because of school I have been unable to find the time to get back home and finish the car. Well the other day I figured I might as well learn how to tune my car so I bought efi live and im going to give this my best shot. I have been reading online for the last week pretty diligently about tuning so I have a bit of a grasp of what needs to be done but I definitely need some guidance. Here are the specs on the build

46 lb/hr fast injectors
fast 102 intake
fast 102 throttle body
stage 3.5 cam, approx .605 lift on exhaust and intake and low to mid 230s on duration, I forgot exactly
TEA 243 ported heads
headers no cats and full magnaflow cat back

I have already started the car and it was a bit rough to idle but Im going to account for the bigger injectors tomorrow through the IFR table and through the other injector settings because apparently they are the base settings from a ls2 corvette injectors. Then I will attempt to set idle and go from there. Any help or possibly base tunes with a big cam and a fast 102 would be greatly appreciated for comparison!

[SOMhaveit]

First, the LS2 OEM injector is not 46lb/hr, so the table for that injector will not translate for your FAST injectors. The LS2 is approx 33 lb/hr. Second, you don't say anything about having a wideband O2 sensor, and you aren't going to get anywhere w/o one.

I don't have the data for your injectors, but that's what you need before you do anything else. Hopefully, some kind soul that has that information will share it with you.

[oreobadr]

Oh sorry let me clarify, all of the offsets are the same for the ls2 injectors and I will account for the different flow rates in the ifr table by multiply by the percentage difference between the flow rates.

[Jetmech442]

Let me second that in injectors, tons of weird idle /driveability issues manifest from injector tables not being spot on. Sounds like your on top of it though.

A wideband 02 is the way to go. With that you can do CalcVet {is a sticky on forum), which will correct your MAF and VE at the same time. You just drive around and collect data and then paste in corrected values. For idle, the sticky labeled "base idle tips and tricks" well help you out.
You may find that with that cam /TB, that you need to force open loop at idle only. This allows you to clean up AFR issues due to overlap. Hope this is the kind of info you were asking for ...

[oreobadr]

I think I did a pretty solid job on my injectors but if anyone has an identical set and does not mind sharing I would be greatly appreciative to that!

Also I started the car after I accounted for the bigger injectors and the big throttle body and It seemed to have no problems idling at 925RPM all day long. I also just drove it around in the driveway(car isnt insured) and it did great. I took a log and I will be posting it later to see what my next move should be. Also what type of wideband should I get? and if i just stick with the regular 02 sensors what method should I take to get part throttle operation down?

[oreobadr]

Here is the log I took earlier for anyone that has a chance to look at it. I ran it for approx 5 to 10 mins and i had 16 misfires which seems kind of high. Let me know if there are any other PIDS i should look into. I clicked on LTFT for the PID but nothing seemed to log.

[Jetmech442]

I run the innovate ls2. The module and software are great. I had to replace the 02 after a year but that's cause I'm an idiot and ruined it.

Wbo2 seem to be a very heated topic. Some people are very firm on the ones they hate or love...

Glad to hear it ran well on first start.

[oreobadr]

I will have to look into that. What is the least amount of money I would need to spend to get a decent WB02? and is it completely necessary or can I tune pretty solidly off my stock 02 sensors? Also would I just replace the stock 02 with the WB02?

Also I noticed that my timing was all over the place at idle for my logged data, does anybody know why that is and how I would correct it? it seems low in the beginning and high at the end.

[oreobadr]

Also I plan on doing another log with different PIDs in a second and I hope to have the car insured so that I can actually take it for a drive and log some real data. Is there anything I should change before I do this, or am I in an ok spot?
here is my tune currently, it is pretty stock with some adjustments.

[oreobadr]

Also I am looking at the Innovate Motorsports 3837 LM-2 (BASIC) Digital Air/Fuel Ratio Wideband Meter (1 O2 Sensor) and the aem 30-2310 wideband, which one is better/easier to install?

[Jetmech442]

It's only 140 bucks for the ls2(Correction:LC2). I understand how it feels like cost escalates, but the Wbo2 is one of the best things to get besides efilive. It comes with a weld on bung, so I mounted move on the driver side about two inches behind my regular 02s.

That being said, there are definitely people who have tuned part throttle on the STFTs, I think if you search "narrow band tuning" that should hit it. So got to do wot tuning though which narrows can't help with.

Timing jumping at idle is most likely due to active idle tables. Ecm is constantly trying to maintain the set rpm, but if your rpm is set too high or the range of spark is allowed to cycle too far then it will jump. When I get to my laptop I'll take a look at the maps that I altered for the idle timing, when I get to my laptop I'll take a look at the maps that I altered for the timing, every time I've responded I've been on my phone.

[oreobadr]

Thanks that would be awesome! and where did you find it for 140 bucks? I couldn't find it for under 300.

[Jetmech442]

Look for the l"C"2,not the "M",the M just comes with stuff that efilive does for you already

[oreobadr]

Oh, found it. I will buy that soon. Do i need to drill into the exhaust to put that bad boy in?

[Jetmech442]

yup. and it comes with a buing to weld in. I've also seen clamps with a bung, so you don't need to weld. you will also need to stop by Radio Schak and grab a "null wire modem connector". Check oiut Post #56 for pics and details. http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1418981-lq9-t56-1969-old-442-conversion-3.html

That connector allows you to just plug in your wb to the V2 and start grabbing data. I tried using the analog connectors to avoid 20$ on the adapter...it was two weeks of wasted time...

I tried opening you tune when I got to work this morning and got rejected cause I must not have updated to the very latest software yet. I'll take a look tomorrow unless someone else gets to it first.

[oreobadr]

Man I really appreciate all the great feedback you are giving me! I will look into this and hopefully have a wideband installed next time I go home so I can log some actual data while driving.

[joecar]

Also:
- B3609: set this to 0.050 s.
- B3809: change this to more effective use fuel trim cells (for example, set it to 1500, 2500, 3500 rpm).
- B4105: set this to 450 mV.
- B0701: do you have cats...?
- B0501: do you have EVAP system...?

so you have manual trans...?

[oreobadr]

I do not have cats and I still have my EVAP system. I also have a manual trans. I will make those changes. Also do I need to have the V2 attached to my computer in order to change the tune? Every time I try to adjust the tune it goes into demo mode and I still have my information for the device registered.

[Jetmech442]

Yeah it's gotta be plugged in. Once you mail in the blue card efilive sends you the authorization code so you don't need to anymore.

[joecar]

You do not need V2 to be plugged into your PC/laptop to use the tunetool to edit tune files...

did you enter the software user license details from the blue card into the Help->Register EFILive screen...?

Do Help->Register EFILive and post a screenshot, it should look like this with the fields filled in correctly:

19236

[Jetmech442]

That's what I was trying to say Joe, but he needs the registration key first right? My blue card only had the serial number on it...

[joecar]

That's what I was trying to say Joe, but he needs the registration key first right? My blue card only had the serial number on it...Ok, if you don't have the registration key, go here and do what it says (open a new question with your serial number):

lost registration details (https://support.efilive.com/kb_article.php?ref=2610-QSJC-1535)

[oreobadr]

I had it all filled in like that and then I played with it by changing the licenses type to commercial and now I can use it without attaching the v2 scanner. I also did all of the changes you mentioned and I am currently picking out the new wideband 02 sensor. I should hopefully have it installed by next weekend as I have exams coming up. Any more tips before I install the wideband?

[joecar]

Which wideband are you getting...?

[oreobadr]

I am still deciding between the lc-1, lc-2, and a aem X-Series Inline Wideband UEGO AFR Controller with one of those bolt on bungs so I dont have to weld (dont have a welder) any advice on which one I should buy?

[oreobadr]

Also would I be able to install a wideband 02 sensor in place of my stock 02 sensor until I finish tuning it. It currently only has the front 2 02 sensors.

[joecar]

Also would I be able to install a wideband 02 sensor in place of my stock 02 sensor until I finish tuning it. It currently only has the front 2 02 sensors.Yes, you can.

You would then setup to disable CL/LTFT/STFT during tuning, and tune VE and/or MAF like this.


Also, the Innovate widebands (LC-1, LC-2, LM-1, LM-2) are able to also output an NBO2 signal that is compatible with the GM PCM... so you can enable CL/LTFT/STFT and verify that the wideband hovers around stoich during CL trimming... (also allows you to do Calc.VET procedure which uses LTFT to correct lower end of MAF and WB to correct upper end of MAF).

I don't know if the other widebands have this feature.

[oreobadr]

Do you think I should buy the lc1 or the lc2?

[Jetmech442]

This is one of those personal preference things. Innovate uses the Bosch LSU 4.2 or 4.9 sensor, which is what a lot of companies use, the only difference is the software and stuff. The aem looks awesome, super duper fast and stuff, and the engineer in me wishes I'd gotten it, but the cooler side of me (very small side ☺) knows that the lc2 did everything I needed and got my car tuned.

[joecar]

If you don't already have a wideband, the LC-2 is good, it improves upon the LC-1, runs the newer/faster LSU4.9 sensor, and is serial comms compatible with FlashScan V2.

The AEM is excellent, but I prefer the compactness of the LC-1/LC-2 (my LC-1 runs installed on my car's underbody, next to the transmission).

[oreobadr]

Ok its settled. I will get the LC-2. I will hopefully have it ordered by tomorrow as I am waiting on funding from ebay haha. Thanks to both of you guys for the help, I owe yall a 6 pack!

[Jetmech442]

Ok its settled. I will get the LC-2. I will hopefully have it ordered by tomorrow as I am waiting on funding from ebay haha. Thanks to both of you guys for the help, I owe yall a 6 pack!
Not even close.,lol . Joecar, SSpeedmn , weatherman Shawn (just to name a few) were all they're for me when I was knee deep in my tuning. It takes a ton of time to read and reread the posts, but the info is all there thanks to everyone sharing their expertise.

I'm just trying to pay it back.

That being said, I got a look at your tune,I'll make a second post for that.

While you are waiting for the lc2, I would suggest getting the null modem adapter, but very a single peice, not two like I did due to my impatience.

I would also have on hand a 12v relay since you need one to properly wire the lc2.

Also, if the engine is running, the Wbo2 should be ON. If you have KOEOff, the Wbo2 should be off. This is inevitably how I ruined my first sensor.

[oreobadr]

I just purchased the LC-2 and I will be hopefully installing it after spring break.

[joecar]

Ok, let us know how it goes.

[Jetmech442]

This is the null modern adapter I was talking about. Female to male. I don't know about the company, just saw that they had it for 2 bucks instead of the twenty five I paid at the shack. Also, flea Bay has 10 packs of 12v Relays with connectors and stuff for cheap.

[joecar]

lol, $2 is pretty good (better than $3).

[oreobadr]

Im doing the install this weekend. I need a null modem adapter where it goes female to male, which 12V relay should I get? and what else will I need to set up the electrical? ALso where should I draw the power from? and is ok if I connect the negative to the inside of the car?

[Jetmech442]

Read innovates instructions like 5 times. 😀they were adamant about wiring power and ground straight to battery. If you don't it can cause ground offsets and widebands are really really sensitive to that sort of thing.

Amazon prime has 5 pack of 12v Relays, 30/40 amp Bosch style with the harness for 13$. Coming with the connector harness is a real nice feature. Or you know, something similar at autozone.

To save time on the weekend, I would suggest propopulating the pid list for calcvet, as well as set up the display charts and maps.

Having the map set up before hand will let you see instantly if the Wbo2 is working and recording correctly before you go drive. If you need help, lemme know.

I get your notifications on my phone so I should be able to respond fairly quickly if you run into issues. Good luck.

[oreobadr]

Will do, I am ordering the relays and the null modem connector right now. Thanks again!

[oreobadr]

OK, So I have everything I need. If I run a serial cable set up I do not need to use the brown and yellow wire correct? Also what about the square connector that says input, what goes in there or is that also not needed. Right not I have the serial cable running to the V2 scanner through a mini null modem adapter and I will run fuses through a relay for the negative and positive cables. Is this all I need? Also once I get everything working, do I need to download special software or will it basically read write into efi live?

[Jetmech442]

No need for yellow or brown wire, correct. Also no need for orange connectors. efilive will read it in properly if you have the lc2 pid selected in the scan tool.

[Jetmech442]

The lc2 comes with software or is downloadable, it's pretty easy to use it if you think you need to troubleshoot issues. I'm waiting on a tow truck for my G8, so you've got my full attention haha.

[Jetmech442]

Make sure to follow the calibration procedure on the lc2. Then, you can test it and the pids by holding a rag of can cleaner/ Gas.. Whatever and you should see it go dead rich.

Also, make sure all units are in that gK/kpa unit (in the car so not sure if that is the right exact unit), just get out of %VE is what I mean.

[joecar]

Do not let yellow and brown wires short anywhere, trim them and tape them off.

[joecar]

Setting up serial wideband on V2, see post #3 here: Setting-up-a-FSV2-from-scratch (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?20699-Setting-up-a-FSV2-from-scratch)

[oreobadr]

I did all of these. I got the V2 to have the green light and I ran the wire next to the steering column by the header and had it cross over the intake. It looks pretty good and it can hardly be seen, I also wrapped it in aluminum tape in case the exhaust gets the wire hot. I went to run the V2 scanner but then I realized that I couldnt because I needed a serial port to my computer to tune the settings for the O2 sensor. I could not have tuned my car anyway because I could not get insurance on it because the insurance company wont let me insure it for a week at a time anymore. Does this mean that I need to get some type of connector that goes from the V2 from the "IN" cable to my computer to set the voltages and air to fuel ratios? Also do I need an SD card for my V2?

[Jetmech442]

Dang, sorry man, yeah you need a serial to "phone" wire.
I don't use the V2 for Blackbox tuning.... But I Probly should. If you do then yes you need an SD card, otherwise just use the laptop.

[oreobadr]

What exactly is blackbox tuning?

[Jetmech442]

Just means you can record all your data with the v2 and not have a laptop plugged in. Some states kinda have a thing against tuning with a laptop even in the passenger seat (Illinois).

Dude, you need to graduate so you can get a job and spend your time surfing the nets... 😀😀😀

[joecar]

And having laptop in car while doing wild acceleration may be detrimental to laptop if it bangs around

( and F-car passenger seat is all shapely so laptop does not sit flat/horizontal or still )


With Black Box mode you can do:
BBL (logging)
BBR (read calibration)
BBF (flash calibration)
SCAN (OBD-II scan of DTC's, test results, VIN/CVN).

[oreobadr]

Thats what I thought it was but I could not find out how to record data using my labtop. Do i do it through the scan tool?

I wish I had more time too lol Every free minute I get I am looking up efilive stuff and getting my trans am read for business, but I only have one more semester of college so I am excited to make some real money.

Also seems like I should build a labtop mount in my Trans am! Who wants one lol!??

[Happy Jim]

It's a laptop ;-) (not lab)

Yep, Scan tool for logging data thru the V2 onto the Laptop

Jim

[joecar]

See this: Setting-up-a-FSV2-from-scratch (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?20699-Setting-up-a-FSV2-from-scratch)

[oreobadr]

So I got the cable connected to my computer but for some reason it wouldn't read. It said no serial input. Any ideas?

[Jetmech442]

So the serial plugs into the null adapter and the other end plugs unto the v2. Then the v2 plugs into the computer using a usb(type A male to type B male). It's this what you have setup?

[oreobadr]

So the serial plugs into the null adapter and the other end plugs unto the v2. Then the v2 plugs into the computer using a usb(type A male to type B male). It's this what you have setup?

What I have is slightly different. I need to calibrate the sensor first so I have the serial plugging into the null adaptor and then that, which is connected to the wideband sensing unit, is connected through a cable into my computer. The wideband flasher is green so I know it has power and I have the other plug, plugged into the "out" connector so that the computer can read it. I do not have it connected to the V2 as I thought I had to calibrate it before my v2 could read it.

[oreobadr]

Oh, I have to set up the wideband with the V2 so it can read it.(just read the link posted that I did not see before) Does this mean I do not need to calibrate it first by connecting it straight to my computer?

[Jetmech442]

Oh I get it. I calibrated mine following innovates instructions. I think it was power up with wb unplugged,then power up again with it plugged in. (I think). I didn't use their software at all for calibration.

[oreobadr]

I still cant get it to read into my computer via serial cable but I was able to find the pid and add it in the scan tool. Also, is the LC-2 supported efi live because when I was choosing my wideband I did not see the option for it so I chose lc-1 instead.

[Jetmech442]

It's called "EXT. W02LAM1". Can you post your pid list you have selected?

[Jetmech442]

It's under W02-Serial category.

[Jetmech442]

The ones with names like lc1 are for analog. For reference, when I did analog, lc1 worked for my lc2 wb.

Do you have all the rest like Calc. VET pids as per the tutorial?

[oreobadr]

I have it set up for serial PIDs. Also when I tried to find the other pids from the Calc. VET it wouldnt work so I will try again.

[joecar]

Did you read this:

See this: Setting-up-a-FSV2-from-scratch (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?20699-Setting-up-a-FSV2-from-scratch)


What I have is slightly different. I need to calibrate the sensor first so I have the serial plugging into the null adaptor and then that, which is connected to the wideband sensing unit, is connected through a cable into my computer. The wideband flasher is green so I know it has power and I have the other plug, plugged into the "out" connector so that the computer can read it. I do not have it connected to the V2 as I thought I had to calibrate it before my v2 could read it.Do you have it connected like this:
LC-2 --> null modem adapter --> V2 --> Laptop/PC

post a pic of your setup.


Oh, I have to set up the wideband with the V2 so it can read it.(just read the link posted that I did not see before) Does this mean I do not need to calibrate it first by connecting it straight to my computer?
To read the serial comms from the LC-2, you have to connect V2 to the vehicle OBD-II port, and turn ignition switch to ON so that you can log from the ECM also.


I still cant get it to read into my computer via serial cable but I was able to find the pid and add it in the scan tool. Also, is the LC-2 supported efi live because when I was choosing my wideband I did not see the option for it so I chose lc-1 instead.In the V2 configuration, you set the com port to "wideband" and the type to "Innovate"... there is no specific LC-1 setting; if you're referring to CALC.AFR_LC1x then you have the wrong pid.

The pids you want are: EXT.WO2LAM1, EXT.WO2EQR1, EXT.WO2AFR1, EXT.WO2ST1.

[oreobadr]

I have connected like that and it reads just fine for when I get it to read into my computer. I was under the impression that I had to calibrate it first by directly connecting the wideband sensor to my computer. The wideband directly to my computer is the connection that is not working.

I have those PIDs.

[Jetmech442]

Calibrating the sensor does not require hooking up to the computer only that it is wired properly and power is removed and then added in the correct sequence. Below is taken directly from their website: ( I searched "innovate lc2 calibration"


. This procedure is required anytime a NEW oxygen sensor is
installed.
The calibration procedure requires that the oxygen sensor be in free air, this
means removed from the exhaust system completely.
1. With the sensor disconnected, apply power to the LC-2. When power
is applied, the status light will light up green for 2 seconds while the
controller initializes. The status light will then turn red and flash a two
blink sequence indicating an Error 2 condition. This error state
indicates that no sensor is detected. Leave unit powered on for a
minimum of 30 seconds while it is flashing the Error 2.
2. Power down the LC-2 and attach the oxygen sensor to the sensor
cable and the sensor cable to the LC-2. When making these
connections, make sure they are fully seated and locked. Again,
make sure that the sensor is in free air (not in the exhaust).
3. Power up the LC-2. The status light will light up green for 2 seconds
while the system initializes. The status light will then start flashing
green twice a second indicating that the sensor is heating up to it

[Jetmech442]

If it's calibrated correctly you should be able to plot EXT. W02LAM1 and it should show a lambda of 1 is the sensor is outside the exhaust. Spray some carb cleaner in a rag and hold it near the sensor, it should go full rich.

[oreobadr]

Is it too late to calibrate it lol? i took some logs just minute ago.
The first three are without those settings applied for calc VET and the fourth is with the CALC VET settings applied. I noticed it had alot of RPM hang with the CALC VET Settings. Let me know how everything looks. I did not drive it, I just started it up on a lift.
I noticed that after I followed what you guys said to the tee I couldnt get the AFR to read for the wideband.

[oreobadr]

19400194011940219403

[oreobadr]

is there any tuning I can do without driving the car once I get my wideband reading correctly?
Also the wideband was on but not reading while I was running the car, is that bad for the sensor and can I still calibrate it?

[Jetmech442]

Never too late to calibrate. They suggest doing it once every couple months to ensure it's working properly.

You could do the idle tuning tutorial and get the idle dial done without having to drive I guess.

Couldn't get the afr to read... Hmmm. I'll try to take a look at the logs u sent when I get to my computer.

Also, what do you mean by rpm hang? You mean idle, or after you Rev it is slow to return?

[oreobadr]

Never too late to calibrate. They suggest doing it once every couple months to ensure it's working properly.

You could do the idle tuning tutorial and get the idle dial done without having to drive I guess.

Couldn't get the afr to read... Hmmm. I'll try to take a look at the logs u sent when I get to my computer.

Also, what do you mean by rpm hang? You mean idle, or after you Rev it is slow to return?

When I rev it is veryy slow to return. It wasnt like that in the first three log files.
Also for some reason I had an equivalence ratio present but im guessing that was just the calculated or target equivalence ratio.

[Jetmech442]

Okay, I only have a second, but first thing-your channel count is above 24. If its above 24 then you read data in really slowly. you'll probly have to dump the spark ones while your doing calcvet cause each one takes up 2 channels each, also the idle ones. Weathermanshawn suggests the PIDS to select in this thread https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-%28in-single-log%29 , these are what I and everyone else used, they are what you want (in addition to the WB stuff of course).

That being said, I plotted WB02Lam1 and it shows 1.7 across the board, meaning Max lean. I think you should definitely calibrate it, and also just key on with the sensor plugged in but outside the xhaust. watch w02lam1 , it should say 1.7, then do the carb cleaner rag thing and it should drop to below .5. that will let you know if the w02 is reading properly.

[Jetmech442]

as for the slow to return rpms, after the VE and MAf tables are complete, I can help you fix that. Mine had it too, it's pretty simple. gotta go, check back later. hope this stuff made sense.

[oreobadr]

It stayed at 1.7 which I thought it meant it wasnt reading. i will calibrate it tonight and see if that makes a difference in terms of its ability to read the A/F. Also, I included all the necessary PIDs but then I added some additional ones that I thought would be useful but I will erase those so it can read faster.
Thanks again!

[Jetmech442]

Yeah 1.7 might also mean not reading...

[oreobadr]

I calibrated it and it still reading 1.7 so something is not happening correctly.
any more advice haha? I am running a null modem though so I have it set up correctly.

[Jetmech442]

Okay, so the "out" of lc2 goes to null modern which goes to phone plug into to of the v2. Then the main cable (thick one) goes into the WB02.

If this is correct, and still not reading into v2, then we need to isolate.

Install the lc2 data logging software and you should be able to watch the wb bounce around in real time. If you can't get it to work in the innovate software, then there must be an issue with wiring it something.

In the meantime, I'll upload your pid list and see if I can read mine in the garage...

[Jetmech442]

are you logging with V 7 or V8? I just found a recent thread where joecar says if it's V8 you need to turn on WB02 stuffs. (Post 6) https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?25840-LC-2-And-EFI-LIVE-V2-New-and-Very-Confused
On the main screen of V8, click on the left column for Devices. Then at the bottom left column of hte new window select Serial I/O--turn on LC2 stuff there....


Give it a try...

[oreobadr]

I was logging with V7.
Also, the "out" of the lc2 does go into a null modem which then goes through a cable into the V2. The cable does go to the wideband sensor. The v2 is connected to my computer and to the car in order to get the readings.
Also, I did install the lc2 data logging software but I cannot get it to work as it says there is an error with the serial port.
Here is me trying to isolate,
The sensor has power and is reading as the green light is on,
I did a sensor calibration and that did not change anything,
I am logging through v7
I have all the PIDs selected for this device and none of them move at all or change with time
I did all of those things in V8 and it didnt help.
Do I need to do something in V7 in order to get the wideband to read into it besides inputting the PIDs?

[oreobadr]

Also for the null modem, I just connected the serial cables to each other VIA this modem. Was I supposed to interchange some of the locations of which wires connects to other wires like this picture?19408

[Jetmech442]

Since you can't talk to the log works software, I'm thinking you might fall into the same category as we're that pic above came from : https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?23169-LC-2-Digital-Wideband-anyone-try-it-out/page5

He claimed that by switching those wires that it fixed the issue. Have a read through that thread and see if you agree. It's hard to believe that the issue would exist two years later...

[joecar]

I have connected like that and it reads just fine for when I get it to read into my computer. I was under the impression that I had to calibrate it first by directly connecting the wideband sensor to my computer. The wideband directly to my computer is the connection that is not working.

I have those PIDs.You do not connect the sensor to the PC.

[joecar]

I was logging with V7.
Also, the "out" of the lc2 does go into a null modem which then goes through a cable into the V2. The cable does go to the wideband sensor. The v2 is connected to my computer and to the car in order to get the readings.
Also, I did install the lc2 data logging software but I cannot get it to work as it says there is an error with the serial port.
Here is me trying to isolate,
The sensor has power and is reading as the green light is on,
I did a sensor calibration and that did not change anything,
I am logging through v7
I have all the PIDs selected for this device and none of them move at all or change with time
I did all of those things in V8 and it didnt help.
Do I need to do something in V7 in order to get the wideband to read into it besides inputting the PIDs?Post a photograph of your LC-2 and how you have it cabled.


The LC-2 data logging software requires no null modem cable. The null modem cable is required when you connect the LC-2 to V2.

[oreobadr]

So thanks to you guys I finally got it to work. I have no idea what did it but after I ran through the tutorial three more times it seem to have done the trick.
here is my first log!

I will attempt the idle tutorial shortly.

[oreobadr]

Here is my first important log as I used the PIDS from CALV.VET

[Jetmech442]

Hey awesome! glad it worked out. Looking at the log, I have just a few quick comment/observations. I'd dump the SAE.Fuelsys, and replace with SAE.VSS(Vehicle speed).
Looks like after you blip throttle, it goes real real lean(2+Lambda). Not a real problem since it's still warming up and stuff, and I don't think your actually moving(can't tell since no VSS or laod). Before you go collecting data, you need to go to the Tab next to Dashboard called MAPS. This is where you set up the map for CAlcVET. Read up on it in the tutorial, and set it up, if you need help, I'll be back around during naptime, but my Fays2 Watts link just showed up so I'm hoping to get ino the garage.

Set that map up and grab some data!

[oreobadr]

I will Thanks for the help! And yeah I wasn't moving.

[oreobadr]

Hey so I did the Calc.VET just for idle RPM but I noticed that my lambda is too high so the filter just filters it out. Should I increase the lambda to 2 so my filter allows for some readings to come through or what should I do?

[Jetmech442]

Lambda is 2+ seems really high. I'm assuming you have a pretty decent amount of overlap with a cam in the low-to-mid 230's with what I'm assuming is an LSA of 110 to 112.

So you can't really trust 02s at idle due to the short circuit effect.

Here's how I understand the process, which worked well for me. Preform the "idle tuning tricks and tips" sticky. You can do that in your garage, but you need to slightly modify the pid list accordingly. This procedure will populate B4307(desired airflow) That will tell you how much airflow the engine requires at idle for a range of coolant temps.

After doing that one or twice idle should be rock solid.

I convert the idle airflow into a VE value ( g.K/kPa) based on temp, pressure. Then I do calcvet. But I filter out the idle cell since I've already set that value, I don't want it being messed with.

The reason I do this is because I learned (from forums and trial and error), that when the ecm transitions from one cell or map to the other, the values should be real close, if not exact. For example, my desired airflow was like 12g/s,but ve table was calculating like 16 or something (don't remember now). So the instance I transitioned from idle tables to the ve table, I got real goofy behavior.

This is doubly true for timing tables.

[oreobadr]

That makes perfect sense. I will try to do this if I have time tomorrow but the idle seems to be a lot better after I played with it a bit.

[joecar]

So thanks to you guys I finally got it to work. I have no idea what did it but after I ran through the tutorial three more times it seem to have done the trick.
here is my first log!

I will attempt the idle tutorial shortly.You can see Wideband working correctly from Lambda exactly following the inverse of EQIVRATIO, squiggle-by-squiggle.

Good job :cheers:

[joecar]

Here is my first important log as I used the PIDS from CALV.VETSomething is going wrong, is lambda that divergent (is your engine running that lean...?)...?

[oreobadr]

So finals are over and im back tuning this son of a gun. It was rough to say the least as the car died multiple times when it came to a stop and at one point the car got very weird and would barely run but then it went back to normal when I revved it up. From the looks of it, it is running veryyy lean. I have attached my log and my tune file if anyone wants to try and give it a look! I do not want to drive it any further with it running so lean.
For this tune I set up conditions for Calc. VET as well as following the idle tutorial basics write up.

[oreobadr]

possible vacuum leak somewhere drawing in air causing it to run so lean? I heard a very faint whistling noise when I was driving.

[oreobadr]

Im confused in regards to b4349 table in which I needed to make an alteration to the value to compensate for the bigger throttle body. From the TBresizing.xls file that is all over the internet, I am supposed to use a throttle area conversion of .0122 instead of .2xxx something from the stock ls6 manifold. Shouldnt my number be larger instead of smaller for this value and this might be the reason why my engine is running so lean?

[Jetmech442]

Hey oreo, did you make any physical changes since you may got Calc.vet to run? Any any brothers they took it for a spin while you were studying?

It sounds like a vacuum leak. Something on that new tb perhaps? I'll be able to look at the Logs tonight if no one else gets to it first.

I don't have any team experience with bigger throttle bodies so I'll stay out and hopefully someone else can chime in.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Jetmech442]

gonna make some quick observations(as usual)

HO2S11 is completely flatlined around 450mv. It does make some movement, bu it certainly does not follow the other bank or the WB02.

Additionaly, the other bank never cycles-like...ever. It looks like its trying to follow the trends indicated by the wideband, but it should definitely be cycling (like 3 times a second if IRCC).

Your ECT gets up to 234 and stays there. Maybe this is where you want it, but it seems quite high for just idling and stuff. I haven't looked at your tune yet to see when fans kick on/off.

Looking at this log, I can see the frustration at how its running, having ot feather the pedal to try and keep it going and the extreme lag from pedal to engine response. This to me looks like vacuum leak. Get your can of carb cleaner and go hunting. :)

[oreobadr]

I dont know why it flatlined around 450mv and I am still in the process of adding more water and coolant hence the high ECT temperature. I am looking for vacuum leaks tonight and I will update on the response. My fan kick on temperatures are set low by the way.

Why would my 02 sensor just be flatlined like that?

[oreobadr]

Also would you consider 234 overheating or just hot?

[joecar]

Also would you consider 234 overheating or just hot?That's hot on the edge of overheating...

I like so see 190F-210F.

[joecar]

Im confused in regards to b4349 table in which I needed to make an alteration to the value to compensate for the bigger throttle body. From the TBresizing.xls file that is all over the internet, I am supposed to use a throttle area conversion of .0122 instead of .2xxx something from the stock ls6 manifold. Shouldnt my number be larger instead of smaller for this value and this might be the reason why my engine is running so lean?My understanding is B4349 goes down as TB diameter goes up.

[Jetmech442]

From an engineering standpoint, 234 is fine as long as you have the right mixture and a working pressure cap. That being said, a lot of people, including myself, run lower. I prefer 200-210 F only because if something does start to overheat I have time to react.

A quick search on ls1tech will reveal the entire spread of pinions on this. So I'll just say that the above is my opinion.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[oreobadr]

But I shouldn't worry about engine damage from the quick flirt to 234 ECT?

[oreobadr]

Just changed it so that both are on by 208 ECT

[Jetmech442]

I've had mine up to 245 a couple times accidentally when the fan relay kept blowing and no issues.

I'm in the garage right now, but take a look at when your "hot engine protection" tables kick in. These tables kick in before damage occurs in an attempt to protect. Pretty sure you'll find 234 is within that limit.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Jetmech442]

I feel like I'm being a little lax. Let me be clear, I don't ever like being up in the 230s, ever. I get real nervous up there because I only ever get to 217 if something has failed .but I'm just saying it's not causing any physical damage at that temp.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[joecar]

I use these Fan temp settings:
G0901: 206
G0902: 199
G9013: 214
G0914: 207

[joecar]

Your brief excursion to 234F is ok.

[oreobadr]

ok good, there is some peace of mind right there! I think I find at least one source of the vacuum leak which is the throttle body attaching to the intake and some possible interference with the water pump. I will keep yall posted!

[oreobadr]

Just corrected the throttle body problem and it is still running very lean. Can someone take a look at my tune and give it a shot and see whats happening? Maybe its because of the injectors. I am running fast 46lbs/hr injectors. I corrected the IFR tables already but possibly other things still need to be adjusted.

[Jetmech442]

Without being able to look at it right now , I'll just say that every single table will need to change for the fast injectors. Not just the IFR table.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[oreobadr]

Where would I be able to get that data for the fast injectors?

[joecar]

Set B5917 to 4 mph.

[joecar]

From your log, your wideband is not working right...

[joecar]

Also, it seems your MAF is reading low... this and the high idle points to airleak(s).

[oreobadr]

I wonder why my wideband isnt working right... do you think I should recalibrate it and try again?

Also I took another log where I tried and modeled my injectors against stock ls2 injectors as you stated in a different forum post. I changed the IFR tables from the other values as I multiplied the stock IFR values by 1.394 which is equal to 46/33 (my injector flow rate over stock). I also modified the other tables to make it work better. It seemed to run better this time and the high idle points were set by me. Here is a log I just took along with the changes I just made. This is also after I corrected the throttle body vacuum leak.

[oreobadr]

is my MAF still reading low in this log?

[oreobadr]

Also, I have the wideband going to straight power and to make sure it does not kill the battery, I disconnect the battery and reconnect it every time I start if for right now. Could this take away the calibration of the wideband?

[oreobadr]

I dont know how, but alot of the intake bolts were not torqued so I retorqued them and then ran my car again. It did not die this time at all when I came to a stop and seemed to perform a lot better but it seemed like I needed to give it a lot of throttle to go anywhere. It also idled very well. I dont know where else there would be a vacuum leak, so if you guys think there is still a vacuum leak after looking at this tune file I do not what to do.

Here is the log file I just took.

[Jetmech442]

Also, I have the wideband going to straight power and to make sure it does not kill the battery, I disconnect the battery and reconnect it every time I start if for right now. Could this take away the calibration of the wideband?
The calibration is only lost if power is provided when the wb is unplugged.

The wb should be wired Exactly like the pic below. Relay grounds, everything. This is absolutely critical. If not, then you always have an unknown to work about.

Can you post a pic of the wb log so I can look at it at work?
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160511/43614b3a72b79d6ae43121abc1f90131.jpg

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Jetmech442]

BTW good find on today intake bolts. Mine loosened a we bit after my first couple Heat cycles too

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[oreobadr]

What can I hook it to so that it turns on with the ignition? Could I attach it to the alternator power? or do I have to splice it into something??

Also I cant post anything until tonight because I am not next to my computer. I am about to go get a can of carb cleaner and see if I can find some more vacuum leaks, and thanks haha, I knew something must be leaking but I couldnt find it.

Lastly, when I rev the throttle really fast I can almost hear a whistling noise and one time it even backfired through the throttle body. Could a crack in my pcv valve tubing cause a large vacuum leak?

[joecar]

Multiply your MAF table by 1.4, and take another log.

[Jetmech442]

Alternator power wire is always connected to battery,so no .slice into the harness is best.



Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[joecar]

Connect relay pin 86 to ignition switch RUN feed.

[joecar]

...

Lastly, when I rev the throttle really fast I can almost hear a whistling noise and one time it even backfired through the throttle body. Could a crack in my pcv valve tubing cause a large vacuum leak?That sounds like a leak.

[oreobadr]

when you say MAF table, are you refering to the maf calibration table?

[oreobadr]

Also, where can I run the wire that is inside of the engine bay as I do not have the wideband entering into the cockpit of the car.

Lastly, why did you say multiply by 1.4? was that to mimic the adjustments made to the IFR table?

[oreobadr]

Also just took a can of carb cleaner and sprayed it everywhere. I do not think it is leaking and I cant find that source of the whistling noise.

[joecar]

when you say MAF table, are you refering to the maf calibration table?Yes, correct, B5001.

[joecar]

Also, where can I run the wire that is inside of the engine bay as I do not have the wideband entering into the cockpit of the car.Remind me which year/model/vehicle you have...?


Lastly, why did you say multiply by 1.4? was that to mimic the adjustments made to the IFR table?
What adjustments mad to the IFR table (I must have missed something above)...? What injectors do you have...?

[joecar]

Also just took a can of carb cleaner and sprayed it everywhere. I do not think it is leaking and I cant find that source of the whistling noise.What PCV plumbing do you have, F-car style or Y-car style...? Post pics.

Did you check the filter/MAF bellows/plumbing...?

[oreobadr]

I have a 2002 pontiac trans am.

I multiplied the base flow rate by 1.394 in order to compensate for the increased fuel flow of the injectors. I have the 46lbs ls2 style injectors from fast.

[oreobadr]

I will post pics later today. It is an f body, and the pcv plubming goes into the back of the intake, passenger side valve cover, and then into the throttle body.

I have checked all of the plumbing, I had to alter a 4 to a 3 inch rubber adaptor to make it fit but I sprayed around it and everything around that with carb cleaner and there was no vacuum leak.

[oreobadr]

I almost cried when I drove it today after that MAF adjustment and the IFR adjustment. Finally ran, had power, wideband is working. There is noticeable surging at low rpm and there was a lot of rpm hang from a rev. It would die when coming to a stop light again but I finally got a log that works. Tell me what you think.

[joecar]

...

Also I took another log where I tried and modeled my injectors against stock ls2 injectors as you stated in a different forum post. I changed the IFR tables from the other values as I multiplied the stock IFR values by 1.394 which is equal to 46/33 (my injector flow rate over stock). I also modified the other tables to make it work better. It seemed to run better this time and the high idle points were set by me. Here is a log I just took along with the changes I just made. This is also after I corrected the throttle body vacuum leak.

...
I multiplied the base flow rate by 1.394 in order to compensate for the increased fuel flow of the injectors. I have the 46lbs ls2 style injectors from fast.

Ah, I see it...

do the FAST injectors flow 46 lb/hr at 3-bar (43.5 psi) or at some other reference pressure...? Can you point us to their datasheet...

also, do you have the returnless style fuel system where the FPR is in the tank (i.e. is not MAP-referenced)...?

did you measure rail pressure, what is it...?

[joecar]

I almost cried when I drove it today after that MAF adjustment and the IFR adjustment. Finally ran, had power, wideband is working. There is noticeable surging at low rpm and there was a lot of rpm hang from a rev. It would die when coming to a stop light again but I finally got a log that works. Tell me what you think.Ok, make a MAF map (like in Calc.VET) using CALC.WO2BEN as the data...

then edit the transient filter to throw out engine stopped (RPM less than 400), and apply it... then apply this map to the MAF table, do some handraulic extrapolation/interpolation (i.e. on not hit portion of the MAF table, bring cells to fit on the curve established by the hit cells... it should look like a 4th order monotonic poloynomial (i.e. ever increasing and getting steeper as you already see in existing MAF curve).

post some screenshots.

[joecar]

F-car PCV system is really bad (on acceleration it sucks oil from rear of valve covers straight into intake manifold), even with a catchcan (it fills up very quickly)...

I would recommend the LS6/LS2 style valley cover with integrated PCV.

[oreobadr]

http://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/8-ls2-type-46-lb-hr-injectorhtml/ Here are the injectors. They flow 46 lb/hr at 58psi. I do have the returnless style fuel system where the FPR is in the tank.
I did not measure rail pressure but I assume it is at 58 psi.

[oreobadr]

I Just drove around the neighberhood for about 10 minutes so I feel like I do not enough data to actually use Calc.vet yet. I wanted to fix the bucking issue in low RPM and how it dies when it comes to a stop before I created a 45-60 minute log so that I wouldnt constantly have to restart it. Do you know how I could correct this issue before I do the full log?

[oreobadr]

If i ever take off the valley cover again I will be sure to change out the valley cover for that PCV system. I am thinking about getting a catch can, do you think that is a wise investment?

[joecar]

http://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/8-ls2-type-46-lb-hr-injectorhtml/ Here are the injectors. They flow 46 lb/hr at 58psi. I do have the returnless style fuel system where the FPR is in the tank.Ok, thanks. Do they have a datasheet (so we can set the other injector parameters, like the voltage offset and the small pulse threhold/adjust)...?



I did not measure rail pressure but I assume it is at 58 psi.Please measure it to make sure.

[joecar]

Yes, I think a catchcan is wise, even with the LS6/LS2 valley cover.

[joecar]

I Just drove around the neighberhood for about 10 minutes so I feel like I do not enough data to actually use Calc.vet yet. I wanted to fix the bucking issue in low RPM and how it dies when it comes to a stop before I created a 45-60 minute log so that I wouldnt constantly have to restart it. Do you know how I could correct this issue before I do the full log?Manipulate the VE table (with MAF disabled) and MAF table (with VE disabled) down where it idles... you may have to do some idle tuning.

[oreobadr]

The injector parameters are supposedly the same as a stock ls2 injector. I matched as many as I could from a stock tune from a 2005 gto.

I will measure the rail pressure tomorrow, I have to go out and buy a gauge.

[oreobadr]

I already did the idle tuning walkthrough but I was planning on using the CALC.VET tutorial to do all of my tuning. Most of my operation today was from low RPM operation so I will modify it right now based on that.

[Jetmech442]

hey, so Im looking at the tune called "moddedifr2ndtry.ctz " and comparing it with the latest you posted. so, the way you have it set up (which is how I prefer it), is when your foot is off the pedal (and your below 400 kph) the your spark is commanded by table B5932-base spark in gear. at idle you consume .26g/cyl(based on steady state idle around frame 1650), which means you command 22 degrees of timing. however, the .26 is right in the middle of .24 and .28 g/cyl on the 800 rpm row(still talking about B5932). and you have 22 and 18 degrees of timing in those so your always doing a slight amount of bouncing(not a lot, just some). I'd start by fixing that small timing hole. when you get serious about tackling the stalling issue(you're probly excited to get calcvet done I know), then I would suggest logging VSS, TC, TF, spark advance and dyncylair. those will really help you (and me ) get an idea of whats going on when it starts acting up.


For hanging Revs,
theres two (at least) main culprits that I have learned so far. The first is throttle cracker (B4309 and 10). If rpms hang while in gear, 09 is the issue. It adds airflow(throttle position) based on mph-too much and its an unwanted cruise control, too little and , well, for my M6 car it's zeroed out for everything above 400 rpm(that row gets 4 g/s to help boost air if it ever tries to stall), but I just don't like any extra on a manual car from that table.

If revs hang in park/neutral/Clutch engaged, then b4310 is the part of the problem. mine is 0,.75 3,1.5 6,2.5 and 10,2.5. This helps when driving around slowly if I clutch in, but above 10 kph its all zeroed out. zeroing all cells for these two didn't work great for me, it lead to stalls and aggravating behavior pulling up to stop signs and such. it's something to play around with till you get it just right for how you drive it.

The last thing (that I know of or can remember with Elsa music playing way too loudly during bedtime) is your base spark in gear table again. the first column in B5932 is responsible for timing when your revs are coming down. My stock cal from the 05 escalade had the first column populated with 40-49 degrees of timing above 2000 rpm. I dropped that entire column above 1600 down to 30 (and made sure that the transition from 1600 to 800 wasn't a big jump(more than 5?). Also, you'll want high and low octane to match the cells that you have changed( because once you touch the pedal you will leave the base timing maps and move back into high octane. And make sure that there is a smooth transition to the next columns(in high octane so that you don't have large swings in timing from tiny pedal movements.

[oreobadr]

I just ordered a fuel pressure gauge and once I install that I will attempt a calc.vet log with some above 45mph logging. At that point I will log VSS, TC, TF, spark advance, adn dynclyair to help with the stalling issue.

I am reading the comment right now about the hanging revs and will be adjusting my tune momentarily. I will most likely do some more tuning tomorrow and will keep yall posted.

[Jetmech442]

Good luck. Is it mechanical it electric pressure gage?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[oreobadr]

I made the adjustments you told me to and I am currently working on the timing tables right now, I will post my tune and let me know what you guys think. I do not want to run into detonation problems. Can I keep the b5932 5914 and 5913 the same for all timing marks or do I need to have base spark in gear be different than the low and high octane tables?

[oreobadr]

I also modified b5933 for the 0 and 400 RPMs in case I have it neutral when coming to a stop

[oreobadr]

Good luck. Is it mechanical it electric pressure gage?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

It is a mechanical gauge

[Jetmech442]

Looking back at my high octane, the low flow column is "normal", that is to say is different than the base spark. I guess it's fine because you're either on the pedal or off, and not rapidly interpolating between the two.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[oreobadr]

Looking back at my high octane, the low flow column is "normal", that is to say is different than the base spark. I guess it's fine because you're either on the pedal or off, and not rapidly interpolating between the two.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Can you explain this a little bit more?

[oreobadr]

Here is my new tune with timing and throttle cracker adjustments. I only made adjustments for low RPM operation for spark. I ended up making the low octane table the same as the high octane table but just minus 2 degrees. Let me know what you guys think and what I could change for the 4 important spark timing tables. Also give me the ok to program it and run it.
Thanks!

[oreobadr]

So I took another log today with the updated arrangement and I still get where the car wants to die when I come to idle. I notice that every time the car wants to die the timing goes from like 32 to 16 or 17. This is due to the mass of air in the cylinder going up and the computer taking out timing. Do i simply add timing or what should I do to counteract this? I updated this recent one with calcvet again.
I have attached the tune and log file to this post below. Let me know where I should add timing. I also noticed that when I revved it in neutral the RPMs stayed elevated so maybe I put a little to much timing in for low RPM? let me know what you guys think.

[joecar]

Try removing desired airflow (B4307).

[oreobadr]

do you want me to rezero it?

[oreobadr]

So I removed desired airflow and I couldn't even get the engine to idle. I then watched the replay of my engine running and I noticed the huge variation in timing from idle and coming off of a higher RPM. I then noticed how the table B5911 had units in C and the scan in F but the tuning tool had the units mixed up and was taking timing off even though the intake temperatures were low. Just to be clear, the ecu was lowering the timing advance because it thought that the intake air temperature was much higher due to the unit mix up. How do I fix this unit mix up?(I realized this when I had both open next to each other so I could watch the timing vary with engine load)

I then zeroes the entire b5911 table and it helped the idle but the car still dies when it comes to a stop:(((((((

Here is the log I took with the 5911 table zeroed. I believe that if I correct the timing problem I will be able to correct the stalling issue as the times it died with the most recent tune, the timing was still very low at some points.

[joecar]

Sorry, I meant: remove some airflow (reduce the values) in B4307.

[joecar]

Do you have the stock tune file...?

[joecar]

So I removed desired airflow and I couldn't even get the engine to idle. I then watched the replay of my engine running and I noticed the huge variation in timing from idle and coming off of a higher RPM. I then noticed how the table B5911 had units in C and the scan in F but the tuning tool had the units mixed up and was taking timing off even though the intake temperatures were low. Just to be clear, the ecu was lowering the timing advance because it thought that the intake air temperature was much higher due to the unit mix up. How do I fix this unit mix up?(I realized this when I had both open next to each other so I could watch the timing vary with engine load)
The PCM is not mixing up units... the unit mixup is between the scantool and the tunetool...
- in scantool goto PIDs tab, highlight the pid SAE.IAT, do rightclick->Imperial.
- in tunetool go Edit->Configure Display Units, find B5911 (click on Id column header to sort by Id), do rightclick->Row Label Units->Imperial, click Ok.


I then zeroes the entire b5911 table and it helped the idle but the car still dies when it comes to a stop:(((((((

Here is the log I took with the 5911 table zeroed. I believe that if I correct the timing problem I will be able to correct the stalling issue as the times it died with the most recent tune, the timing was still very low at some points.Desired airflow and ignition timing both come into play...

I noticed in your log that RPM does hang after throttle is closed, may need to work on Throttle Follower/Cracker...

( but of course, first get VE and/or MAF correct )

[oreobadr]

Sorry, I meant: remove some airflow (reduce the values) in B4307.

OK. I will go 75% of the stock values.

[oreobadr]

Do you have the stock tune file...?

Yes. Here it is.

[oreobadr]

The PCM is not mixing up units... the unit mixup is between the scantool and the tunetool...
- in scantool goto PIDs tab, highlight the pid SAE.IAT, do rightclick->Imperial.
- in tunetool go Edit->Configure Display Units, find B5911 (click on Id column header to sort by Id), do rightclick->Row Label Units->Imperial, click Ok.

Desired airflow and ignition timing both come into play...

I noticed in your log that RPM does hang after throttle is closed, may need to work on Throttle Follower/Cracker...

( but of course, first get VE and/or MAF correct )

I will do the PCM part and I cannot do VE or MAF until I get the car to idle correctly. I think I will just raise the target idle speed to 1000 and hopefully then it will not die. I will also try and do some work on the throttle follower and cracker. Any ideas of what modifications I should make?

[oreobadr]

I will post more results later but by increasing the idle speed and mostly from INCREASING B4307 I was able to get the car to idle, not stall, and drive very well. I actually got a pretty decent log and will do some more testing later on. I have to wake up super early tomorrow but will continue later.

[oreobadr]

I noticed that after doing the CALC.VET for the VE tables that there is a significant difference between the original values and the values with the new set up. I used smoothing to help with this a bit. I have included the tune. I have also lowered the desired idle speed back to 900 RPM and increased b4307 overall by about 15%. Let me know if there is anything else I should do.


Also JETMECH where you at bro? I haven't heard from you in a bit.

[oreobadr]

Forgot to mention, thanks both of you guys (joecar and Jetmech) for all of the help. You dont realize how much I appreciate it!!

[joecar]

MAF looks ok, smooth the section from 6500-7125 Hz, make the curve look nice rounded/continuous.

VE:
- minor up spike: if this is real, then move the surrounding cells to blend with it; otherwise flatten it to blend with surrounding cells.
- larger down hole: this does not look right, do same thing as for up spike.

[joecar]

Disable DFCO to avoid those wideband lambda spikes... make sure you filter them out (WO2LAM1 > 1.02).

[oreobadr]

Disable DFCO to avoid those wideband lambda spikes... make sure you filter them out (WO2LAM1 > 1.02).

How should I go about to disable DFCO? what does DFCO do and why should I do it?

also do you mean to filer out WO2LAM1 is less than 1.02?

[oreobadr]

I set all the values of b3316 to 0 and all of the values of b3314 to 250. I think this should disable DFCO.

[Jetmech442]

for sure. sorry Ive been out, I was installing my watts link and then the alternator died on my g8...you know how it goes. let me try to explain better...

So the first column in my high octane spark(B5913) has values in the 40's(after 2200 rpm). This column, and then next one(so .08g/cyl and .12g/cyl) represent throttle transients/idle/closed throttle stuff... I actually idle at .15g/cyl, so its rare that I find activity in the .08g/cyl column. anyway. so when your foot is off the pedal,B5932(Base spark in gear) is controlling your timing-at .15 g/cyl, I'm getting 29 degrees. my high octane matches up with that same g/cyl/RPM because ido a lot of back and forth between those cells. if the timing were, say, 20, then when I tool around a parking lot the commanded timing switches between high octane and base spark rapidly making quick timing changes, which leads to miserable surging.

Now, higher up (RPM wise) in the base spark for those same .08 and 12 g/cyl columns, I have them dropped to around 25-30. First, this helps drop rpms more like a carb'd car when I let off the pedal, but it doesn't cause weird timing fluctuation because when I get back on the throttle I'm immediately in much different column (.36 g/cyl for instance).

Now this only really helps hanging idle(more like slow to return to idle) issues, if your not still asking for airflow via throttle cracker or follower. I can't remmber if your n M6 car, but I'll assume you are..(sorry if I'm wrong.)

Cracker
My cracker(B4309) deactivates below 3kph. so it never bothers me at red light rev ups. the row for 400 rpm, is populated with 4g/s(yours should be too) . if it ever gets too low, this helps to boost airflow. I only needed ,5g/s at 1000/6(rpm/kph) in order to catch my return to idle. my cracker in P/N, only asks for 2.5g/s up to 10kph. above that it's zeroed. This helped cause when I was tuning, I sometimes clutched in to listen to something and rpm would drop below ifdle and play catch up.
Follower
My follower(B4315) is identical to yours. OH-think I found it, so your Follower RPM multiplier(B4309), is asking for a minimum of 3.5g/s sometimes 5g/s, AND it delays(B4318) 3 effing seconds(at 0kph) before it starts to decay out that 3.5 g/s. MY whole follower decay Delay(B4318) is .2 seconds. drop your delay to like 0.2 and try reducing your RPM multiplier by..i dunno, a lot(mine is 0 above 2800, and only 2 below that).


Cracker and follower aren't bad, they can do a lot for low rpm parking lot stuff, and general pedal stability. I missed the feel of the carb-wire-pedal, so I prefer to utilize them as little as possible. you may need to put some back in based on personal preference, but this should help.

[Jetmech442]

How should I go about to disable DFCO? what does DFCO do and why should I do it?

also do you mean to filer out WO2LAM1 is less than 1.02?

DCFO is deceleration fuel cut off. when you're off pedal, and certain parameters are met, it will pull timing, and then cut fuel off all together. this is a fuel mileage enhancer, but it obviously causes you to show way lean which will falsify your Calcvet procedure.

W02LAM1 is filtered above 1.06 according to WeathermanShawn(that guy was the best) in the calcvet tutorial. nothing wrong wiht 1.02 like Joecar said, it's just takes more data to get the right cell count.

[oreobadr]

I am about to go to sleep but I will read through this tomorrow!

[oreobadr]

So I took all of your suggestions and it worked great! the RPM stayed where it was supposed to when the clutch was in and it idle great. The car ran great untill.........


I was getting onto the highway (around frame 8000) and I could feel the car vibrate and my service engine light started blinking. I only went to approximately 5000 RPM. I limped the car home and looked at my scan tool and got the follow codes, P0134, p0308, and p0300. It said my cylinder 8 was misfiring. This is the only time it was misfiring ever and I could feel the car missing the whole time home (luckily it was a short drive). I am going to take the spark plug out later but do you guys have any idea what could have done this? I look at my retard due to knock and it was at 1.9 from earlier in the drive which I still need to correct but I hope it wasn't detonation that killed the spark plug. The car sounded fine when I was idling it in the garage when I got home so I dont think there was any engine damage. Any ideas what caused this?

Also was my spark timing set to high and that is what caused the retard due to knock around frame 6000?

Here is the log and the tune file.

[oreobadr]

The more I read up on it, people are saying it might be due to inactivity in that one O2 sensor on the right bank and it might not be the spark plug itself as that is the code for a random misfire (I have been getting codes for inactivity in my 02 sensor.
(

The misfire was rumbling as I accelerated from a stop and it could be easily noticed so let me know what you guys think.

[oreobadr]

I dont know how, but the 8 cylinder plug wire came off lol(I just reattached it)..... Do you guys have an idea of how that would happen?????

[joecar]

The more I read up on it, people are saying it might be due to inactivity in that one O2 sensor on the right bank and it might not be the spark plug itself as that is the code for a random misfire (I have been getting codes for inactivity in my 02 sensor.
(

The misfire was rumbling as I accelerated from a stop and it could be easily noticed so let me know what you guys think.How many miles on the front NBO2 sensors...? If more than 70K miles, probable should replace them.

[joecar]

I dont know how, but the 8 cylinder plug wire came off lol(I just reattached it)..... Do you guys have an idea of how that would happen?????Sometimes they come loose... inspect the terminal that slips onto the plug terminal, is it loose...? This may explain DTC P0308.

[oreobadr]

yeah there are more than 70k. Does that really affect anything because I have the wideband?

Also, took another log and the car ran great! I severely adjusted the VE table and some of those values are pretty large for high RPM and high MAP. Can you guess what kind of horsepower I can make based off of those and can you look at those to see if my VE table is looking better.

One thing that I wanted to address was when I come to a stop slowly and the RPM change is less significant the car idles great and everything is fine but when I come to a quick stop and there is a larger decrease in RPM my car will surge and it died once. What would fix that?

here is my tune

[oreobadr]

Sometimes they come loose... inspect the terminal that slips onto the plug terminal, is it loose...? This may explain DTC P0308.

Yeah it was completely off. I put it back on and my problem was solved! I also checked all of the others.

[Jetmech442]

yeah there are more than 70k. Does that really affect anything because I have the wideband?

Also, took another log and the car ran great! I severely adjusted the VE table and some of those values are pretty large for high RPM and high MAP. Can you guess what kind of horsepower I can make based off of those and can you look at those to see if my VE table is looking better.

One thing that I wanted to address was when I come to a stop slowly and the RPM change is less significant the car idles great and everything is fine but when I come to a quick stop and there is a larger decrease in RPM my car will surge and it died once. What would fix that?

here is my tune
Great oreo, now here comes the addicting part of tuning. You've caught on real fast as to how to read logs and you've got exposure to a lot of the maps that affect driveability. You'll need to start making small changes, take a short trip and then correct until it does what you want.

For engine stalling upon quick stop, you could probly catch it with the throttle cracker below 5 or so mph. Mine is set up this way but , too much air and rpm awkwardly rises when you approach a stop so get a feel for what threw engine needs.

Also, make sure your clutch position sensor is working properly so the ecm can use the right tables.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[joecar]

yeah there are more than 70k. Does that really affect anything because I have the wideband?

Also, took another log and the car ran great! I severely adjusted the VE table and some of those values are pretty large for high RPM and high MAP. Can you guess what kind of horsepower I can make based off of those and can you look at those to see if my VE table is looking better.
If engine runs great, then I would leave them alone.


One thing that I wanted to address was when I come to a stop slowly and the RPM change is less significant the car idles great and everything is fine but when I come to a quick stop and there is a larger decrease in RPM my car will surge and it died once. What would fix that?

here is my tuneNeed some more idle/cracker/follower tuning.

[oreobadr]

Great oreo, now here comes the addicting part of tuning. You've caught on real fast as to how to read logs and you've got exposure to a lot of the maps that affect driveability. You'll need to start making small changes, take a short trip and then correct until it does what you want.

For engine stalling upon quick stop, you could probly catch it with the throttle cracker below 5 or so mph. Mine is set up this way but , too much air and rpm awkwardly rises when you approach a stop so get a feel for what threw engine needs.

Also, make sure your clutch position sensor is working properly so the ecm can use the right tables.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I will get on this. I adjusted throttle cracker when I got home and I am about to take it for another ride. What other things should I log that can tell me some important info?

Also how do I take care of the knock situation?

[oreobadr]

I will get on this. I adjusted throttle cracker when I got home and I am about to take it for another ride. What other things should I log that can tell me some important info?

Also how do I take care of the knock situation?

It was running great for below 3500 RPM operation and I was doing some short highway pulls to tune the higher RPM bands. So when I adjusted the VE table it was more for the stuff that I had not tuned yet.

Do you also have an idea of how to take care of the knock situation? I do not want my motor to run into knock retard and instead tune it so that does not happen.

Also what other changes should I make to my spark timing?

[Jetmech442]

Hmmm, for knock, I make a map of rpm vs g/cyl. Then I copy, and paste /subtract with labels into my high and low rpm. I then blend it to make sure everything is smooth.

So spark, all the ve tuning you do is accurate for a given spark. If you have the whole ve dialed in, and then adjust spark, the ve will change because you are either burning more of the fuel or less of it.

My plan so far has been to get ve nailed down, then add some spark and see if I feel anything,if I like it I rerun ve table, if not I put running back. Spark is best in a dyno obviously, but I'd rather tinker.

One thing else I did, I started with the high octane map from my buddies stock c5 z06, To get an idea. One common trend I noticed amongst all NA spark tables is that they dip as they transition through peak torque. - something to keep in mind.


Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[voda1]

Hmmm, for knock, I make a map of rpm vs g/cyl. Then I copy, and paste /subtract with labels into my high and low rpm. I then blend it to make sure everything is smooth.



Could you post up that .map file?

[joecar]

Check to see if your intake manifold is pulling in oil from PCV, if it is then oil will lower the effective octane (allows knock).

Can you hear it knocking (I'm trying to gauge how bad it is).

[Jetmech442]

Could you post up that .map file?

sorry, I tried but the website won't upload .map files. And somehow they're clever enough that it recognized it wasnt a .png file when I changed the extension. who knew the guys that crack LS1's for a living could figure out how to block my clever attempts at extension swapping lol.

[oreobadr]

Check to see if your intake manifold is pulling in oil from PCV, if it is then oil will lower the effective octane (allows knock).

Can you hear it knocking (I'm trying to gauge how bad it is).

No the knocking almost never happens and I dont even ever notice it. I just notice on my log data that it says retard due to knock and it was 1.9 degrees for one of my tunes and .1 degrees for my other tune, So I want to eliminate this all together. I will put a fill canister in there soon enough so that my intake does not draw in oil.

[oreobadr]

I just dont want to add timing in the wrong spots and then have my engine detonate lol. What year z06 was it? and was the timing really that much different for that tune??

Also I will make that map you are talking about when I can find some time. I work as a calibration engineer (intern) so my time is getting taken away from me lol

[joecar]

sorry, I tried but the website won't upload .map files. And somehow they're clever enough that it recognized it wasnt a .png file when I changed the extension. who knew the guys that crack LS1's for a living could figure out how to block my clever attempts at extension swapping lol.Try wrapping it in a .zip file.

[joecar]

Do you have access to any gas station that sells unleaded 100 octane pump gas (e.g. Unocal 76)...? You could let the gas tank go down (to almost empty) and try a tankful (or a 1/4 tank) of 100 and see if you still see KR... if you do then it can't be real.

[oreobadr]

Do you have access to any gas station that sells unleaded 100 octane pump gas (e.g. Unocal 76)...? You could let the gas tank go down (to almost empty) and try a tankful (or a 1/4 tank) of 100 and see if you still see KR... if you do then it can't be real.

I cannot think of any around me that have above 93 octane and I always use 93. Do you think I shouldnt worry about it due to how infrequent it is and how small it is?

[Jetmech442]

I just dont want to add timing in the wrong spots and then have my engine detonate lol. What year z06 was it? and was the timing really that much different for that tune??

Also I will make that map you are talking about when I can find some time. I work as a calibration engineer (intern) so my time is getting taken away from me lol

It was a 2001 C5 Z06. I only payed attention to the ,72 g/cyl column cause that's the airflow we pull at WOT.

I haven't been able to look at your recent logs, but if timing is occurring in the same place rpm/map/airflow from log to log then it's usually legit. I know trans movement and launching can cause false knock, but I don't think that's where we were seeing it.

I've tried zipping the knock map and that didn't work. Maps are one of EFILIVEs awseome features-using them will make you a better tuner. You want a map that looks just like your high octane spark, but instead of commanded spark, you want it filled with how many degrees it pulled from knock.
Go to your tune and open the high octane spark map. right click(RC) in the top left and select "copy with labels".
Now open a log. go to the "maps" tab, and click on "C"(any letter works but C should be blank.)
To the left of the letters, click the "edit map properties" (or CTRL+ENTER).
Data:select knock retard
column: select GM.CYLAIR_DMA. now click the button"paste labels. (this is why you first copy the labels from your tune)
rows: select SAE.RPM and lcick paste labels again.

now you can see the exact spot that is having knock retard pulled. you can copy this map(with labels) and then go to your tune and "paste and subtract with labels). tada! smooth the cells around to blend nicely by hand.

k, now if you go take a log it shouldn't pull any more timing in that cell. if it does, it's probly not real knock.

[oreobadr]

Well it only pulled timing in that one cell for the new tune I just made. It was weird how the scan tool said it pulled 2.6 degrees of timing and then I did the MAP thing above that you said and there was only one non zero value which was .4. Something does not add up because that value should be the 2.6 instead of the .4. I am uploading the log and tune. For the tune I made slight adjustments to the timing and the knock retard occurs in the log at frame 13200. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. I think the reason why it knocked is due to the large variation or change in spark timing at very low RPM as the .4 happened at 600 RPM. (In my other logs the knock retard was happening around 1800 to 2000 RPM which is different from this most recent log)

Also I want to increase timing for low RPM as I have to use a lot of throttle to leave and approximately 10 percent throttle to maintain a constant 40 MPH which seems very high. (Also, it is kind of slow in 5th and 6th gear at 65 to 70 mph) Where should I add some spark timing in my high octane table to account for this and to make it easier leaving from a dead stop??

[oreobadr]

I just made this tune so just look at the high octane spark tables. Is this too aggressive for spark??

[oreobadr]

Lastly, I think this tune is from a stock z06 but I could be wrong. Should I upload these timing values to my tune as they seem considerably more aggressive than what I have and then redo the CALC.VET from there?


I would also probably need to copy the other spark tables such as the IAT and ETC spark dependency. Is this correct to copy these as well for a better baseline than what I have??

[joecar]

Well it only pulled timing in that one cell for the new tune I just made. It was weird how the scan tool said it pulled 2.6 degrees of timing and then I did the MAP thing above that you said and there was only one non zero value which was .4. Something does not add up because that value should be the 2.6 instead of the .4. I am uploading the log and tune. For the tune I made slight adjustments to the timing and the knock retard occurs in the log at frame 13200. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. I think the reason why it knocked is due to the large variation or change in spark timing at very low RPM as the .4 happened at 600 RPM. (In my other logs the knock retard was happening around 1800 to 2000 RPM which is different from this most recent log)

Also I want to increase timing for low RPM as I have to use a lot of throttle to leave and approximately 10 percent throttle to maintain a constant 40 MPH which seems very high. (Also, it is kind of slow in 5th and 6th gear at 65 to 70 mph) Where should I add some spark timing in my high octane table to account for this and to make it easier leaving from a dead stop??In your log file reallog10.efi (https://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19704&d=1464230168) I see MAP dropping as RPM increases as you hold TP steady at PT...

MAP is dropping to idle levels but the throttle is about 40% open...

I have to take a closer look.

[oreobadr]

Is that happening because the spark timing is changing and the engine is drawing in different amounts of air as the timing changes? Or what could cause this?

[joecar]

Is that happening because the spark timing is changing and the engine is drawing in different amounts of air as the timing changes? Or what could cause this?Maybe, possibly... I have to find out more.

[oreobadr]

http://ls1tech.com/forums/advanced-engineering-tech/581609-map-higher-idle-than-part-throttle.html

This might explain it.

[oreobadr]

I redid all of my timing tables and throttle cracker with adjustments but a lot closer to stock and my car has the low end power again!! I think the thing you were seeing joe was the decaying throttle cracker because my values were all messed up. I ran another log and it ran the best so far I would say. My only concern is how much it wants to search for idle when I first start it. Here are my new tune and log.

[oreobadr]

Also for using calc.vet for idle, which airflow do I use on the Y axis?

[Jetmech442]

I just made this tune so just look at the high octane spark tables. Is this too aggressive for spark??

looks more or less about what I have. are you idling well with only 22 degrees of advance(800 rpm)?

[Jetmech442]

Also for using calc.vet for idle, which airflow do I use on the Y axis?

I never let calc.vet change my idle areas. I got my timing dialed in with th eidle tuning tutorial and then never let calcvet update those cells. That may be wrong, but just what I did.

for airflow, look at how many g/cyl you pull at idle from one of your logs and use that value, but beware that it will change as the car goes form cold to hot.

[oreobadr]

looks more or less about what I have. are you idling well with only 22 degrees of advance(800 rpm)?

I thought that tune timing was too aggressive so I didnt even log any data with it. I am idling well with only 22 degrees of timing in my new tune however!!

[oreobadr]

I never let calc.vet change my idle areas. I got my timing dialed in with th eidle tuning tutorial and then never let calcvet update those cells. That may be wrong, but just what I did.

for airflow, look at how many g/cyl you pull at idle from one of your logs and use that value, but beware that it will change as the car goes form cold to hot.

Apparently if you use calc.vet for it, the airflow parameters that you are talking about can be created using a different map and they will be a lot closer to the actual values. I also realize that the g/cyl will vary based on cold to hot.

[oreobadr]

Is there any possibility that the knock I am getting is actually burst knock?? instead of real knock?? Also, my header is tapping against my frame sometimes so that could also potentially cause the small degree of knock retard, right??

[Jetmech442]

Is there any possibility that the knock I am getting is actually burst knock?? instead of real knock?? Also, my header is tapping against my frame sometimes so that could also potentially cause the small degree of knock retard, right??
Only one way to find out... Zero out burst knock and go for a spin. Also yes, mechanical contact can sometimes fool the sensor into reporting knock.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[oreobadr]

Now I have another really weird issue. After I drive for about 5 minutes, engine warm, the engine almost goes into cruise control. I look at the airflow and its at 21-23 g/s which is WAYYYY to high to be off throttle. I disabled the throttle cracker and the issue is still there, so it must be something else. When it goes to idle before I drive it for 5 minutes (with engine warm) the car idles perfectly at 12 - 13g/s which is why I have my desired airflow tables set at that value(from calc.vet procedure for idle). Any help on why my airflow with closed throttle just randomly jumps to 22g/s would be very much appreciated. In the log I attached, after frame 2000 you can see what I am talking about. I also included my tune.

[joecar]

Cam we also see your current tune file if it's different than the one in post #205.

[oreobadr]

Yes it is different, sorry I didn't post it!

[Jetmech442]

Now I have another really weird issue. After I drive for about 5 minutes, engine warm, the engine almost goes into cruise control. I look at the airflow and its at 21-23 g/s which is WAYYYY to high to be off throttle. I disabled the throttle cracker and the issue is still there, so it must be something else. When it goes to idle before I drive it for 5 minutes (with engine warm) the car idles perfectly at 12 - 13g/s which is why I have my desired airflow tables set at that value(from calc.vet procedure for idle). Any help on why my airflow with closed throttle just randomly jumps to 22g/s would be very much appreciated. In the log I attached, after frame 2000 you can see what I am talking about. I also included my tune.

I can't nail down where the extra airflow is coming from. At 0% TP its now injecsting 23g/s instead of 12. You turned off Throttle cracker in this tune by setting B4311 to max speed)-not sure why. I'd re-enable but just set the map values or multipliers to zero. To me it looks like its trying to use air from "desired airlfow", but from -20 C coolant tmep, but your coolant temp is is accurate in the log. I dunno, I'd suggest reverting to a previous tune, or noting exactly the changes you made and think if it would have the effect of adding airflow.

Also, please please plase find a way to add SAE.VSS , it helps me understand a lot better whats going on. you can dump HO2S11 since it's dead anyways right?

Other things I noticed: HO2S11 O2 is fltalines at 450mv-I'd replace it.
Stall saver (B4522) is set to 0. Both columns should be roughly 100-150 rpm less. (so the 900 row should be ~750 -800).

[oreobadr]

I have the car up on my lift right now because I am putting a 255lph fuel pump in so I will go get another 02 sensor and replace it tomorrow. Would that be the passenger side or driver side O2 sensor?

I will add VSS on my next log.

I have no idea why it would go to that desired airflow. It doesnt make any sense. Is there something I can do to make sure my units are correct and consistent between both?

I turned off throttle cracker to see if that extra airflow was coming from it, but it is not. I know in all of my other tunes the problem I was having at idle was that I actually needed 12g/s of desired airflow at idle and I would put 8 or 9 so that my RPM wouldn't jump the way it is right now. So this issue has been present(but hidden) the entire time. Remember how I was complaining about the RPM jumping up and I would often stall, this was because my idle airflow was set too low and would this weird mode would kick in the car would run correct because it was getting the correct amount of airflow even though the desired airflow was lower than what is should have been. Right now my car is amazing before it randomly starts going to 23g/s so I want to try and fix this. It would have to be something with the tune or the scanner I would think but I have nothing else that I know of in my tune that would affect the idle like that.

Also, what does stall saver do?

[Jetmech442]

I get it now, okay. So you've got an extra ~11 g/s randomly jumping in.

Has anyone else had this issue? (talking to everyone else reading this post and hoping for some air support from the community)

Stall saver will actively boost spark (and air?) in order to prevent a stall, is quite handy. I idle at 800 and stall is set for 650.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[oreobadr]

Joecar to the rescue??

[joecar]

I'm looking it over (sorry, we got some more hospital stuff going on)...

[joecar]

You can remove the pid FUELSYS and add SAE. VSS. Also add EXT.WO2EQR1 (it comes along for free).

Like Jetmech says, remove HO2S11 and HO2S21 and add GM.IAC.


If you're going to use trimming, find out what happened to bank1 NBO2.

[joecar]

Remind me of your cam spec...?

[oreobadr]

I'm looking it over (sorry, we got some more hospital stuff going on)...

OH NO!!! what happened????

[oreobadr]

You can remove the pid FUELSYS and add SAE. VSS. Also add EXT.WO2EQR1 (it comes along for free).

Like Jetmech says, remove HO2S11 and HO2S21 and add GM.IAC.


If you're going to use trimming, find out what happened to bank1 NBO2.

I will on my next log.

[oreobadr]

Remind me of your cam spec...?

low 230s duration and approximately .600 lift on intake and exhaust.

[joecar]

What LSA...?

[oreobadr]

I cant remember. For some reason I want to say it was 114

[joecar]

23x/23x 114

these usually idle almost ok on stock tune file as long as:
- injector tables are correct for injectors,
- VE is corrected,
- MAF is corrected.

Minor changes may be needed to desired air table and desired idle rpm.

[oreobadr]

I already have made changes to the desired air table and desired idle rpm, that is not the problem right now. My problem is that randomly my engine will add 7-8g/s of air to my idle airflow. I zeroed out throttle cracker and it was not that and I have no idea else where it is coming from. This can be seen in the log I posted as the throttle position is zero the engine speed is at like 2000 RPM and airflow is at 21-23 g/s.

[joecar]

Yes, I'm trying to see where it is coming from... but I don't see it.

[oreobadr]

Yes, I'm trying to see where it is coming from... but I don't see it.

I don't either:( I got my fuel pump installed today, and I should have wiring done by tomor or wed. I will keep yall posted.

[Jetmech442]

Okay, for the log named: throttle cracker disabled, still cruise control with throttle closed.efi , you start having shenanigans after you stall out in frame 1720. I don't know hwy but I thought I'd point it out as something significant. it goes from 12 ish g/s to 21ish g/s.

Also, are you running AC?

[oreobadr]

Okay, for the log named: throttle cracker disabled, still cruise control with throttle closed.efi , you start having shenanigans after you stall out in frame 1720. I don't know hwy but I thought I'd point it out as something significant. it goes from 12 ish g/s to 21ish g/s.

Also, are you running AC?

I am still running A/C and do you think for some reason my engine start up extra air flow is randomly being put back into my tune?

[Jetmech442]

I am still running A/C and do you think for some reason my engine start up extra air flow is randomly being put back into my tune?
Seems like it to me, but I think I'm in over my head here. I went through your whole tune last night and can't find it. With the exception of populating all your p/n tables, I'm not sure what else if could be.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[oreobadr]

I found the issue, the desired airflow tables in park based on IAT were causing this issue. I have since fixed it and all is well. What timing adjustments should I make to make the car more snappy? I don't want detonation but I want to add throttle response.

Should I just add 2 or 3 degrees of timing for low load and between 1200-2200 RPM and run CALCVET and see where I have knock retard and then make the necessary adjustments?

[joecar]

I found the issue, the desired airflow tables in park based on IAT were causing this issue. I have since fixed it and all is well.
Can you show a before/after (screenshot)...?


What timing adjustments should I make to make the car more snappy? I don't want detonation but I want to add throttle response.

Should I just add 2 or 3 degrees of timing for low load and between 1200-2200 RPM and run CALCVET and see where I have knock retard and then make the necessary adjustments?Yes, do this.

[oreobadr]

Can you show a before/after (screenshot)...?

Yes, do this.

Nevermind It did not fix it:(((((((((( For some reason sometimes it does it and sometimes it does not. It is very strange, I just took a couple logs trying to fix("check it out" was my most recent and I would start with this one) and will include the tune. It is not coming from throttle cracker/follower, or due to A/C, or due to startup compensation added airflow. ANY other ideas are greatly appreciated as the car drives great except when it does this.
thanks guy!

[oreobadr]

it also seems to be running lean for the weird case when it has 20+ g/s of air at 0% throttle

[joecar]

If you look at SPARKADV and TP, you will see as TP goes between 0.4% and 0.8% that SPARKADV jumps up/down by large amount.

[statesman]

My problem is that randomly my engine will add 7-8g/s of air to my idle airflow.

Learn what the tables do before you make adjustments... don't mess with tables that you don't understand. Try the attached tune file.



it also seems to be running lean for the weird case when it has 20+ g/s of air at 0% throttle

That's because your tune isn't very good... start by re-tuning your MAF and VE tables.

[oreobadr]

Learn what the tables do before you make adjustments... don't mess with tables that you don't understand. Try the attached tune file.




That's because your tune isn't very good... start by re-tuning your MAF and VE tables.

I have a solid understanding of what the tables do and thats why I was trying to fix it, but it is a learning experience.

Also what makes my tune not very good in terms of my MAF and VE? I was going to tune these again after I fixed my idle problem but I thought I was doing a decent job. Should I put them back to stock and start over or do they just need more refinement?

[oreobadr]

And I will try that tune in a bit. Thanks!

[oreobadr]

If you look at SPARKADV and TP, you will see as TP goes between 0.4% and 0.8% that SPARKADV jumps up/down by large amount.

Should I close the idle screw on the throttle blade a bit so it stays at .4%? and should I smooth out my spark adv tables in my base spark for low RPM or how should I combat this?
I think the sparkadv is all over the place because it is to a degree still idle hunting.

[joecar]

Yes, try closing the throttle blade like you said, and get the PCM to relearn the TP (unplug TPS, key on, wait 15 seconds, key off, wait 15 seconds, reconnect).

[joecar]

Do this:

...

That's because your tune isn't very good... start by re-tuning your MAF and VE tables.

[oreobadr]

Do this:

Should I restart from stock or just work on my current ones?

[oreobadr]

Yes, try closing the throttle blade like you said, and get the PCM to relearn the TP (unplug TPS, key on, wait 15 seconds, key off, wait 15 seconds, reconnect).

Should I make sure the throttle blade is completely closed(0%) before I attempt to make it relearn and then calibrate it back to .4% after?

[oreobadr]

So I tried the tune and almost nothing has changed. Here is my log and the tune that I just used(didn't change anything from above tune which I was given). I think the large influx of air is somehow making the throttle position sensor go from .4 to .8. I changed it a little more after this log and It seems to be at .4 mostly.

[oreobadr]

To clarify, I still get the idle rev to 1500 - 2000, unwanted cruise control, this time it swings more at idle when it does come down(if it ever does because sometimes it doesnt), and hi airflow at idle approximately 20g/s.

[oreobadr]

I think I just figured out a key piece in the puzzle. It seems that whenever the battery is off and it has to relearn the airflow parameters it has the good, low airflow mass (13g/s) airflow rate, and whenever the car is driven for a bit it goes to this high value. Why could this be the case? Should i study the airflow learning values more?

In the log I just took, initially the airflow was good and then it seemed to learn as the drive got longer and the idle grew in airflow for some weird reason.