View Full Version : No Start Now After Flash
Bdirtymax
April 2nd, 2016, 06:51 AM
Been having an issue lately. For some reason when I do a cal flash to update my tune my truck will not start after it has flashed. I end up having to do a full flash of the original tune to get it to start again. It's not a locked tune. It's a DSP5 I made out of my stock tune with Custom OS in 7.5. I haven't had this issue before. What am I doing wrong? Thanks.
cindy@efilive
April 2nd, 2016, 08:53 AM
Some details on your vehicle, the software versions you are running and your flashing method (V7, V8 - standalone or pass-thru) would be helpful.
Cheers
Cindy
Bdirtymax
April 2nd, 2016, 10:09 AM
2008 CC/SB LMM. 7.5.7 Build 303, V8 V294. Boot 2.07.07 Firmware 2.07.97. Standalone flashing with V2.
Thanks.
cindy@efilive
April 3rd, 2016, 12:04 PM
Did you attempt to full flash the file that caused the no start condition or did you just flash back your known 'good' tune?
What happens if you cal flash your 'good' tune?
Cheers
Cindy
Bdirtymax
April 3rd, 2016, 07:20 PM
Yes I tried full flashing the modified file as well and it would not start. I end up full flashing the stock DSP 5 File and it starts. I just started over and created new files. I'll see what happens with them. Thanks.
Bdirtymax
April 3rd, 2016, 08:27 PM
I compared the 2 tunes. Aside from table mods this is the only thing I see different between the 2. I labeled 1 Start, the other No Start. Both full flashed.
Start 19447
No Start 19448
GMPX
April 4th, 2016, 06:54 AM
Aside from table mods this is the only thing I see different between the 2.
yeah but it might be one of the table mods causing it.
Bdirtymax
April 4th, 2016, 07:18 AM
yeah but it might be one of the table mods causing it.
Didn't change anything out of the ordinary. Fuel pressure, Pulse, timing, boost. After I flashed it and it did not start, I tried to view data and it gave me an error of no data received. Like the ECM was blank. Also, my service trailer brake system starting going off in the DIC. Flashed the other tune back in and everything is fine again.
cindy@efilive
April 4th, 2016, 08:14 AM
When you say you tried to view the data, does that mean you tried to read the tune from the ECM? Dsp tunes are written to non-readable memory and cannot be read.
Cheers
Cindy
Bdirtymax
April 4th, 2016, 09:25 AM
No. I know you can't read a DSP5 tune. I tried to monitor data. I selected pids like normal then hit F2 to monitor data. Got the error message.
cindy@efilive
April 4th, 2016, 09:56 AM
Let us know how you go after you start with a clean stock file, and convert to DSP. It's sounding more and more like something in your particular tune file.
Cheers
Cindy
Bdirtymax
April 4th, 2016, 10:09 AM
I take my stock tune read. I open it in 7.5. I upgrade OS to DSP5. I save the file. Then I open it and perform these mods to the base tune.
Engine Operation.EGR
{B1501} EGR Control, changed from "Enable" to "Disable".
{B1502} EGR Minimum Position Shutoff, changed from "-5" to "100".
{B1503} EGR Minimum Engine Temperature, changed from "41.1" to "290.0".
{B1504} EGR Maximum Engine Temperature, changed from "221.0" to "-35.0".
{B1520} EGR Intake Temp Disable, changed from "17.5" to "290.0".
{B1521} EGR Intake Temp Re-Enable, changed from "22.9" to "290.0".
{B1522} EGR Coolant Low Temp Disable, changed from "134.6" to "290.0".
{B1523} EGR Coolant Low Temp Re-Enable, changed from "140.0" to "290.0".
{B1524} EGR Coolant High Temp Disable, changed from "226.4" to "-35.0".
{B1525} EGR Coolant High Temp Re-Enable, changed from "221.0" to "-35.0".
{B1529} EGR Cooling Monitor Upper RPM, changed from "5000" to "100".
{B1530} EGR Cooling Monitor Lower RPM, changed from "600" to "5000".
{B1531} EGR Cooling Monitor Upper Termp, changed from "250" to "32".
Engine Operation.DPF
{B2501} Exhaust After Treatment, changed from "Yes" to "No".
{B2502} Regeneration Success, changed from "1" to "0".
Engine Diagnostics
{C6001} DTC Enables, modified.
__________________________________________________ ______________________________
Apr 04, 2016 18:50:50
Editor: V7.5.7.303
CalDef: V7.25
Engine Operation.Injection Amount.Torque Reference
{B1161} Pedal Position Mode A to Desired Torque, modified.
{B1163} Pedal Position Mode B to Desired Torque, modified.
{B1165} Pedal Position Mode C to Desired Torque, modified.
{B1177} Torque Based Fuel, Low Alt, modified.
{B1176} Torque Based Fuel, Low Alt, Transient, modified.
{B1181} Torque Based Fuel, ECT Adjust Multiplier, modified.
{B1122} Torque Fuel Limit RPM Conversion, modified.
Engine Operation.Injection Timing.Main Injection Base
{B0926} Timing Base, (B), Low Altitude, modified.
{B0927} Timing Base, (B), Transient, modified.
{B0992} Maximum Timing Map, Pilot Off, modified.
{B0993} Maximum Timing Map, Pilot On, modified.
Engine Operation.Torque Limits
{B1118} Maximum Torque 1 vs RPM, modified.
{B1119} Maximum Torque 2 vs RPM, modified.
{B1128} Barometric Pressure Torque Limit, modified.
Engine Operation.Fuel Pressure
{B1058} Fuel Pressure Max, changed from "180.0" to "250.0".
{B1014} Pressure Maintain Fuel Limit, modified.
{B1052} Fuel Pressure Base, Low Altitude, modified.
{B1053} Fuel Pressure Base, Transient, modified.
Save the file and do a full flash. I have done the entire process over several times. In fact, I just did it again and now it will start with the latest attempt. I can send you the other base DSP5 tunes as well the modified versions of them that won't start.
Thanks.
cindy@efilive
April 4th, 2016, 12:36 PM
If the issue cannot be reproduced then there is not alot we can do. If you've now got valid flash results please delete the files you had issues with.
Cheers
Cindy
Bdirtymax
April 4th, 2016, 06:51 PM
I did reproduce it 3 times. But yes it is working now. I'll see what happens when I need to cal flash it. Thank you for your help!
cindy@efilive
April 5th, 2016, 08:08 AM
My bad, I should have been clearer on reproducing the error.
Did you flash the one "bad" tune 3 times and generate the same issue? If this is the case, discard your files and no further action is required.
Or did you start with 3 good base files, convert each of them to DSP, flash them into your vehicle and each one generated the issue? If this is the case, we need to investigate further as the issue is repeatable.
Cheers
Cindy
Bdirtymax
April 5th, 2016, 10:59 AM
I started with the base tune 3 times and converted it. It finally worked. I found 2 other user on another forum having similar issues today. I just made changes to this latest tune and I'm about to cal flash it. I'll let you know if it fails to start.
Thanks
cindy@efilive
April 5th, 2016, 11:14 AM
I started with the base tune 3 times and converted it. It finally worked. I found 2 other user on another forum having similar issues today. I just made changes to this latest tune and I'm about to cal flash it. I'll let you know if it fails to start.
Thanks
Where did you obtain the base file from?
And, can you please point me to the threads on the other forums; to the best of our knowledge you are the only person reporting a no start without codes after flashing a DSP tune into an LMM, which doesn't fault on your original base file.
Cheers
Cindy
Bdirtymax
April 5th, 2016, 11:32 AM
The base file came from the original read I did on my truck months ago. You are already working with the other guys but I think he had U codes. I did not try to pull codes so I don't know if I had any or not. I did just flash update my cal and it worked fine.
Bdirtymax
April 9th, 2016, 10:30 AM
So I ran into a No start after a cal flash today. Then tried to full flash it. Ended up going back to the last tune that ran and full flashed that back and it started. The only difference between the 2 if data I entered into C tables. Here is the comparison between the 2. File 1 will start, file 2 will not. I tried several times. If I cal flash File 1 with File 2 it will not start. There's something my ECM does not like.
EFILive Comparison Export
File 1 E35B_AGAIN_0010.csv
File 2 E35B AGAIN_0009.csv
Exported Apr 09,2016 19:21:37
C0803 0.229717 Volts P0108 Maximum Sensor Voltage
C0812 0.200391 Volts P0045 Maximum Sensor Voltage
C1803 0.229717 Volts P0193 Maximum Sensor Voltage
C1901 55 Seconds EGT #1 High Error Time
C1903 55 Seconds EGT #1 Low Error Time
C1905 55 Seconds EGT #2 High Error Time
C1907 55 Seconds EGT #2 Low Error Time
C1909 -1000 RPM Minimum RPM for EGT Tests
C2001 55 Seconds Diff Pressure Sensor High Error Time
C2002 2.99 Seconds Diff Pressure Sensor High Pass Time
C2003 55 Seconds Diff Pressure Sensor Low Error Time
C2004 2.99 Seconds Diff Pressure Sensor Low Pass Time
C2202 0.229717 Volts Accelerator Pedal Sensor 1 Max
Bdirtymax
April 9th, 2016, 01:05 PM
Screenshot of the actual differences. 19483
cindy@efilive
April 10th, 2016, 09:13 AM
If this new cal flash no start issue is with a different tune file to the one mentioned in your first post, please provide the trace file from the flash, along with the tune file. Trace files can be generated by following the instructions found here https://support.efilive.com/kb_article.php?ref=8552-EOAJ-5912
Cheers
Cindy
Bdirtymax
April 10th, 2016, 10:17 AM
This happened to the tune I created to get my truck to start the last time this happened. I have changed it and cal flashed it 7 times. Only after I altered the C tables more is when I got the no start condition. I put the C tables back to their previous values and flashed it and then it starts again. I don't have any trace files unless it stores them automatically but I can send you the tune files. Don't really want to flash a tune I know my truck does not like to get a trace file in case it kills my ECM.
Thanks.
cindy@efilive
April 10th, 2016, 10:31 AM
Trace files are automatically saved for V7 flashing and V8 pass-thru flashing, details on how to obtain these are found in the link provided. They are not saved for standalone flashing, they remain in the V2 or AutoCal until the device is powered down.
Cheers
Cindy
Bdirtymax
April 10th, 2016, 07:54 PM
I was using stand alone flashing and I never think to save a trace file when it's happening. I'll see what I can do.
Bdirtymax
April 15th, 2016, 10:24 AM
Ok so I have a tune I flashed that worked, I change 3 settings in it and flash that and the truck will not start. I saved a trace file. I load the same tune minus the changes and it starts. I saved a trace file for that as well. Here is a screenshot of the differences I made. Where do you want me to send the trace files? I can also send the tune files. Thanks.
19506
GMPX
April 17th, 2016, 11:34 AM
Ok, so the changes you made that cause the no start tune were....
Engine Diagnostics.Boost Sensor
{C0803} P0108 Maximum Sensor Voltage, changed from "4.751" to "4.980".
Engine Diagnostics.Fuel Pressure Sensor
{C1803} P0193 Maximum Sensor Voltage, changed from "4.751" to "4.980".
Engine Diagnostics.Accelerator Pedal
{C2202} Accelerator Pedal Sensor 1 Max, changed from "4.751" to "4.980".
I guess those upper limits the ECM has other checks on therefore it assumes one of those sensors is now faulty (I would assume the accelerator pedal would cause the no start). Or it does some sort of calculation for other checks based off those upper numbers.
All those sensor voltages could be logged in the scantool, if the Pedal Sensor 1 voltage never goes above 4.751 then I don't see why it would need to be changed. I can only assume we added these by request for someone who was changing pedals and needed that expanded.
If you haven't done any mechanical changes to the pedal then it is probably best left at the factory settings.
Cheers,
Ross
Tbone
August 11th, 2016, 03:25 PM
Very interesting, point learned. Donr modify pedel sensor voltage.
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