Pass through csp switches?

[Zach6.7CTD]

Hey guys, new here and getting efilive for my 2010 cummins 6.7 in a week or less. Will be running an autocal with csp5 as well as an edge cts2 insight for parameters/gauges. I did read on here this morning that around a year ago efilive had only worked with socal and Starlite for pass thru switches. Just wondering if that's still the case or if efilive has "ok'd" any other brands of pass thru switches to be used with their tuning.

Thanks. Zach.

[SASDakota]

Do you have a specific reason for wanting a different switch? I have had nothing but great experience with the socal switches.

[Zach6.7CTD]

No. I just need a switch that'll work with my cts2 and won't effect the efilive tuning down the road as someone here said their tuning goes in and out with some other switches.

[Move'n Up]

Keep in mind that Anytime you flash it's always a Best Practice to connect direct to the OBDII port not via any pass through such as CSP switches, CT/CTS monitor pass through cables etc..

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Socal and Starlite are the only approved vendors for the CSP5 switch, is there another brand ?

Good Luck

[Zach6.7CTD]

Well I thought there was I also heard the socal switch is hit and miss with playing nice with the cts2 so I'm wondering if the Starlite switch has better ratings as far as working with cts2

[SASDakota]

Well I thought there was I also heard the socal switch is hit and miss with playing nice with the cts2 so I'm wondering if the Starlite switch has better ratings as far as working with cts2

I've got a couple 4th gen trucks with CTS2's and socal CSP5 is the only switch I use. Including on my truck.

ALWAYS go direct to OBD2 when flashing the PCM because the switches talk on CAN bus that the Autocal/V2 is trying to flash across. Cross talk fails flashes m'kay.:Eyecrazy:

[Zach6.7CTD]

Yea . I'd never not flash directly to obd2. You'd think that'd be common sense to most people haha

[GMPX]

Well, all too often we get support requests of failed flashes because people were changing tunes on the switch while it was being flashed :shock:

[Zach6.7CTD]

Makes sense. Is there any word on how the fish tuning switch works with the tunes.

[cindy@efilive]

Makes sense. Is there any word on how the fish tuning switch works with the tunes.

It's not approved or tested by EFILive, and won't ever be approved. EFILive doesn't offer any support to customers experiencing issues when that switch is installed on a vehicle. The switch needs to be removed before support will be provided given it's unapproved and untested in our development environment.

One day it may just stop working after an update.......approved switches will continue to be functional...go figure ;)

It's always the customer's call on what integration product they choose; you just need to weigh up that risk.

Cheers
Cindy

[Zach6.7CTD]

Ok so a socal switch and if I'm concerned about my cts2 working I could just get an obd splitter.

[Chavez91]

It's not approved or tested by EFILive, and won't ever be approved. EFILive doesn't offer any support to customers experiencing issues when that switch is installed on a vehicle. The switch needs to be removed before support will be provided given it's unapproved and untested in our development environment.

One day it may just stop working after an update.......approved switches will continue to be functional...go figure ;)

It's always the customer's call on what integration product they choose; you just need to weigh up that risk.

Cheers
Cindy

That was a bit........... harsh.

It's a good product nonetheless.

The EDGE CTS & CTS2 isn't approved for Duramax Switching. But it's not like anyone uses those anyways.

[GMPX]

That was a bit........... harsh.
On no, it could have been a lot worse :shock:


The EDGE CTS & CTS2 isn't approved for Duramax Switching. But it's not like anyone uses those anyways.
That is true, but there was no attempt by EFILive to disguise the switching system for the Duramax which is why Edge are able to do it.

[SASDakota]

Well, all too often we get support requests of failed flashes because people were changing tunes on the switch while it was being flashed :shock:

I was about to say common sense isn't so common.. This affirms that.

[cindy@efilive]

That was a bit........... harsh.

It's a good product nonetheless.

The EDGE CTS & CTS2 isn't approved for Duramax Switching. But it's not like anyone uses those anyways.

Are you sure about that? There is a legal document in place with Edge. You might want to ask Fish Tuning if they have a similar document....although I can answer that question for you - they don't.

Cheers
Cindy

[Chavez91]

Not sure how Edge expect us to troubleshoot their hardware. I guess we could assist you if they listed what operating systems their product supports and what it does not support. Basic documentation on integration would also be helpful. But I guess if they did that you wouldn't be asking and they would have already helped you.

It's no wonder we never went down the path of approving the integration and extending year model support with customer service and after sales support like that!

Cheers
Cindy


Edge were never given official permission to do the switching BTW, they just did it.


That is true, but there was no attempt by EFILive to disguise the switching system for the Duramax which is why Edge are able to do it.

Just from only reading these posts from the past year, one would be under the impression that it had been discussed at one point, but being never officially approved. Edge still went through with it regardless and it was just accepted as is? But I mean, yet again, that's looking from the outside in..... Just making sense of the information given..... :shock:


One day it may just stop working after an update.......approved switches will continue to be functional...go figure ;)

Just would seem like that everyone that already bought CSP switches and installed them would need to buy new ones or have some kind of trade out program if there was anything changed in the way the switching takes place..... But just another observation. :unsure:

I use my little arduino with a can module and it works just fine to do switching and control the other things it runs.

Either way, none of it really matters to me. Just observing. :angel_innocent:

Carry on.

[GMPX]

Just would seem like that everyone that already bought CSP switches and installed them would need to buy new ones or have some kind of trade out program if there was anything changed in the way the switching takes place.....
Not with the SoCal ones.


I use my little arduino with a can module and it works just fine to do switching and control the other things it runs.
Your Arduino switches CSP5?

Cheers,
Ross

[cindy@efilive]

Just from only reading these posts from the past year, one would be under the impression that it had been discussed at one point, but being never officially approved. Edge still went through with it regardless and it was just accepted as is? But I mean, yet again, that's looking from the outside in..... Just making sense of the information given..... :shock: .

Appropriate legal agreements are in place. The moral compass is what has been previously expressed.



Just would seem like that everyone that already bought CSP switches and installed them would need to buy new ones or have some kind of trade out program if there was anything changed in the way the switching takes place..... But just another observation. :unsure:

I use my little arduino with a can module and it works just fine to do switching and control the other things it runs.

Either way, none of it really matters to me. Just observing. :angel_innocent:

Carry on.

I'd say just like a ripped off copy of a movie or a counterfeit watch, the rightful owner of the technology/product isn't going to offer a discount or trade in.

That would be a question you would need to ask Fish how they will handle their product not working, maybe they have plans to purchase legitimate switches and offer you that swap out program.

Cheers
Cindy

[Chavez91]

Appropriate legal agreements are in place. The moral compass is what has been previously expressed.

Ok, thats fine. There's some clarification to the question.


I'd say just like a ripped off copy of a movie or a counterfeit watch, the rightful owner of the technology/product isn't going to offer a discount or trade in.

That would be a question you would need to ask Fish how they will handle their product not working, maybe they have plans to purchase legitimate switches and offer you that swap out program.

Cheers
Cindy

Why Fish Tuning is still being brought up is beyond me?? :confused:

I'm not here defending anyone or anything. Seems as if there is a misinterpretation somewhere.

I made a simple statement essentially staying that "Yes, they make a quality product." (End of statement) It's really more of an opinion. Kind of in the same sense that I think Apple products are trash. Doesn't mean I have any affiliation with them or a competitor.

Whether you have a bone to pick with them or not (it's obviously become apparent as so) is really no ones concern, I don't think.

I mean, personally I don't care.

The point behind any of this was "Whats the big deal behind being able to switch CSP Tunes?"

I mean, I can see and understand your perspective (to an extent) of the comparison of it to a counterfeit watch, or movie.... For example, 3rd Party switches that were exact copies, kind of like some of the cheap tuning devices or products you see coming out of China. But in another perspective, what makes it any different from me making a device that can plug into the Bus and allow me to lock and unlock the doors, display messages on the dash, turn on and off the A/C, turn signals, enable or disable the electric fans or headlights, ECT.... from my phone or any device for the fact of matter.... Sure its GM's software on the devices. But its all communication done with un-encrypted data on an "open to the public" bus. No code is being modified or changed. And no code is being claimed as any ones own. They are basic commands being issued, that are already being openly used on the Bus, to perform an already openly used task....

Doesn't seem like all that big of a deal, in all honesty. Because that's like saying you can't apply 3v to pin 32 on a LLY ecm because its "copyrighted." That would be insanity. Or GM saying that I can't send the command to roll down the drivers window because the command is "copyrighted." It really wouldn't make much sense.... In my opinion. Sure GM could do that, but I'm pretty sure that's why there were regulations put in place so manufacturers couldn't do things like that. Hence why we have SAE's and ISO's, for example.

But if we are talking about a mirrored switch design and layout? Different interpretations are going to apply to the matter. I only care about how the switching is done, as that is the only problem I can see that is being had, based on the previous replies in this thread.

Josh

[GMPX]

Why Fish Tuning is still being brought up is beyond me?? :confused:
Because they are the ONLY company making a CSP switch that didn't have an agreement with EFILive to do so.


The point behind any of this was "Whats the big deal behind being able to switch CSP Tunes?"
Ok, because switchable tuning does give EFILive and the tuners using it an edge (no pun intended) over people not using EFILive. I think it is our right to say who can and can't profit from our IP that we came up with. You know EFILive doesn't make one cent from a switch sold by SoCal or Startlite's app. But those companies invested in making a switching device (probably spent a fair amount of money doing it) and worst case scenario we don't want to see them coming out of China for $5 and they both get burned. Too much of that happens in the western world now and it is sad to see.


They are basic commands being issued, that are already being openly used on the Bus, to perform an already openly used task....
In the case of CSP5 switching they are far from that (on purpose), not so on the older GM VPW bus.

Cheers,
Ross

[Road]

Because they are the ONLY company making a CSP switch that didn't have an agreement with EFILive to do so.


Ok, because switchable tuning does give EFILive and the tuners using it an edge (no pun intended) over people not using EFILive. I think it is our right to say who can and can't profit from our IP that we came up with. You know EFILive doesn't make one cent from a switch sold by SoCal or Startlite's app. But those companies invested in making a switching device (probably spent a fair amount of money doing it) and worst case scenario we don't want to see them coming out of China for $5 and they both get burned. Too much of that happens in the western world now and it is sad to see.


In the case of CSP5 switching they are far from that (on purpose), not so on the older GM VPW bus.

Cheers,
Ross
Appears to be a lot of water under the bridge with Fish. It is very clear now who we need to be buying our switches from. I assumed that since some of your biggest autocal sellers were selling Fish switches then they would be supported. Having those switches sold and installed could have a huge impact on some companies that have been using them. I have used a few myself but now I am glad I didn't make a bulk purchase....

[Chavez91]

Ok, because switchable tuning does give EFILive and the tuners using it an edge (no pun intended) over people not using EFILive. I think it is our right to say who can and can't profit from our IP that we came up with. You know EFILive doesn't make one cent from a switch sold by SoCal or Startlite's app. But those companies invested in making a switching device (probably spent a fair amount of money doing it) and worst case scenario we don't want to see them coming out of China for $5 and they both get burned. Too much of that happens in the western world now and it is sad to see.

I appreciate the honest answer of you saying you're attempting to just monopolize any type of switch production to two companies.

You're trying to create a niche in the market. That's understandable. But at the same time, every market is always going to have a 3rd party aftermarket industry. I mean EFILive is 3rd party aftermarket to GM and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles. I'm sure they can say the same exact thing about what we do but it doesn't stop us from doing what we do with your product on a daily basis. We base our decision to buy your product based on overall quality. Quality of product, quality service, and the amount of supported features. We choose to overlook the fact that it's not an officially licensed product of GM or FCA. I'm sure those 2 companies can say "You can run our tuning that's tested and proven or that Chinese equivalent tuning offered by the people using their product." Doesn't mean you didn't put in the time and R&D to create EFI and/or modifications of the operating systems to add additional features. But GM let's us do as we please as long as we aren't trying to "return to stock without trace" and claim warranty work with damage having been done because of our tuning and claiming it as their fault. Yep, same applies here as Cindy was stating earlier that no support would be given, but you also make no money off the switches and have never offered any type of support on switches or tuning to begin with. Only with actual V7.5 or V8 and cos operation glitches and errors.

In all honesty, if SoCal or Starlight offer a good quality switch, with quality features, and excellent durability for a decent price they have nothing to worry about. Because if 3rd party manufacturers can't compare, the free market system will do its justice. But either way it just supports the sales of autocals, v2s, and vin licences. Just like we support the sale of GM, Dodges, Holdens, ect. They're not gonna complain about that.




In the case of CSP5 switching they are far from that (on purpose), not so on the older GM VPW bus.

Its not as simple, but definitely far from impossible.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[GMPX]

I assumed that since some of your biggest autocal sellers were selling Fish switches then they would be supported. Having those switches sold and installed could have a huge impact on some companies that have been using them. I have used a few myself but now I am glad I didn't make a bulk purchase....
They all knew the risk of doing that, it was made very clear when the Fish tuning switch appeared.


I appreciate the honest answer of you saying you're attempting to just monopolize any type of switch production to two companies.
Really, that is the way you see it? EFILive trying to create a monopoly? I'm offended by that Josh and I would suggest if that is how you think we operate then this discussion should probably come to an end.
If it wasn't for the actions of Fish tuning then there would have been many more switching options on the market by now, their actions put the switching product expansion on hold still to this day unfortunately. What is going on behind the scenes with all this goes far deeper than what EFILive would be prepared to discuss on an open forum.

[Chavez91]

Really, that is the way you see it? EFILive trying to create a monopoly? I'm offended by that Josh and I would suggest if that is how you think we operate then this discussion should probably come to an end.

All I'm doing is seeing it on the large scale as its being portrayed. That is all. Looking at the situation that's been created and offering perspective.

Being Fish is constantly being brought up... Let me ask this for an ending question. Is this only applying to them or 3rd party as a whole. Because I'm referring to 3rd party as a whole and you're singling them out as if there is no other 3rd party or ever will be anyone else. If Joe Schmo made a compatible CSP switch that had touch screen module that changed tunes along with various other features; I'm getting the impression that he would be thrown in the same boat as fish. (No pun intended)

Hence how I formed that conclusion.

Trying to better understand the stance and outlook of the company we give hundreds of thousands of dollars to. And what direction they're headed.

No hard feelings.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[GMPX]

We license the use of the switching technology to whoever requests it (has always been that way). So if Joe Schmo has a product that he would like to add CSP switching too all he needs to do is ask and if we think it will be a good match then he can use it. Do you think Fish tuning asked us? Do you think the companies that almost had agreements in place are happy about what has transpired now that everything is on hold because of the actions of one person?


Trying to better understand the stance and outlook of the company I give hundreds of thousands of dollars to. And what direction they're headed.
I'm not sure what your actual problem is with how things are though, do you want to sell a switch?