2013 ZL1 A6 Shifting issue's - Cant Datalog "EQ Ratio vs RPM"

[GR8GAME]

2013 ZL1
A6 Transmission
Upper and lower Pulley set. Ported blower.

His shifting is really goofy, pulling timing where it shouldn't be. Under REALLY light throttle.
I think I know where the problem is, but I can't get EFI to datalog "RPM vs EQ Ratio".

19611

Sorry for the lame picture. But I can get the vehicle to datalog RPM just fine (obviously). But the EQ Ratio, I can't find it anywhere amongst the PID's.

Any thoughts?

[joecar]

Log SAE.LAMBDA instead.

[GR8GAME]

Interesting, I would have NEVER guessed that, hahahahaha.

I will try it shortly, thank you!!

[joecar]

Post the log file when you get a chance (and I would be interested in the stock tune file also), thanks.

[GR8GAME]

I wish I had it!!!!!

The customer of mine just bought the car. 5,000 miles on the clock. Someone put on it a set of the Lenginfelter upper and lower pulley system to generate 13lbs of boost.
Well, he brought it to me because it was shifting goofy!

I was able to solve the shifting goofy part a while ago. So, he wanted more power. That's where I did a Cat delete with JBA test pipes, Steigmeier ported blower, lower T-stat, Roto-Fab W/W resevoir, Afco heat exchanger.

And now its shifting goofy all over again! But it's only had the LIGHTEST of throttle. Which is why I'm trying to data log that one small portion of the table to see where the goofy shifting is coming from.
It's pulling timing, is what it's doing.

So, I don't have the stock base file (I wish I did). But I don't mind posting the data logs for you at all!

[joecar]

Did you previously edit the torque model tables to get it to shift properly...?

[GR8GAME]

I did.

[GR8GAME]

The SAE Lambda does nothing for the table I am working with. I am thinking that the funky shifting will be corrected by editing the "Torque Model EQ Ratio Adjust" table. I am trying to data log for this table to see where exactly I am when it is shifting. It only shifts funny under very light throttle from 2nd to 3rd gear. Do you agree that this is the correct table to be messing with or do you have other recommendations to try? I do not have the stock file as it came in to me modified and running horribly. Would it be quicker to talk over the phone if so I can get you my number?

[joecar]

I'm not sure unless I see other tables... but do go ahead and play with the torque model.

[GR8GAME]

I'm open to suggestions.

would you like me to post the file?

I really rely on the monitoring of the tables X and Y axis when data-logging. That's the problem I'm running into, without the proper PID, the "ghost" only moves on the RPM cells.
For instance, when I am data-logging RPM on the "Scan" portion of the software and I have the customers file open on the "Tune" portion of the software, I utilize the "ghost" that hovers around the cells where the vehicle is operating. I love this tool!!!! But I'm afraid to mess with this table too much until I can properly data-log the cells.

[joecar]

If it's ok with you, please post ECM and TCM files.

This is a 2013 ZL1...?

[GR8GAME]

If it's ok with you, please post ECM and TCM files.

This is a 2013 ZL1...?

Yes sir!
2013 ZL1 Automatic. Convertible.1962019621

I don't mind sharing at all! It's what a forum is all about.

[GR8GAME]

Well, any ideas?
I'm out of them. I figured I was not datalogging the proper PID's. I'm hoping its nothing more then that...

[joecar]

In the T43 file some of the up/downshift curves cross each other... you can't figure out which gear it is going to be in at those places.

[joecar]

In the ECM file you have to play with the Torque Model curves, I'm not sure exactly how (I don't do many of these)... there's a thread here regarding that, let me find it.

[GR8GAME]

In the T43 file some of the up/downshift curves cross each other... you can't figure out which gear it is going to be in at those places.

You want to hear something funny...

We NEVER pulled the transmission file!!!!
No reason too!
I, literally, pulled it just to send you.

This car came into my shop with the pulley's and someone else's "tune" in it. So I have NO idea what was going on with it. We were able to solve the issue's with the EQ Ratio table and never thought to look at the Transmission itself to see if someone has messed with it.

Ok, I'm going to go digging in there, now, and see what is going on.
I'm glad I asked for help. Thank you!

[GR8GAME]

In the ECM file you have to play with the Torque Model curves, I'm not sure exactly how (I don't do many of these)... there's a thread here regarding that, let me find it.

Yes, please!
I'd love to look more into that.

Especially if this is the same for the CTS-V cars as well.

[joecar]

Improving-shifts-via-the-ECM (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?18710-Improving-shifts-via-the-ECM)

[GR8GAME]

So, you wouldn't happen to have a stock T43 file for the ZL1, would you?

[joecar]

Let me check...

[GR8GAME]

Yeah, with the Tunefiledepot shut down, I've had to resort to google searches for some of the stock files. I can't seem to locate one online that's for the ZL1.

I appreciate your time and help!

[GR8GAME]

Ok, I've gone through the T43 file and I've compared them to other GM vehicles I've tuned and I can see where the shift points intersect

Would you mind pointing out where they cross and what to look for?

What I see is a normal up/down shift pattern.

[joecar]

Ok, I've gone through the T43 file and I've compared them to other GM vehicles I've tuned and I can see where the shift points intersect

Would you mind pointing out where they cross and what to look for?

What I see is a normal up/down shift pattern.When you overlay all the upshift and downshift curves for a particular pattern together, none of them should cross anywhere.

The rules are:
- when the operating point is above an upshift curve, the TCM will want to be upshifted (e.g. in 3rd gear for the 2->3 curve).
- when the operating point is below a downshift curve, the TCM will want to be downshifted (e.g. in 2nd gear for the 3->2 curve).
- the downshift curve has to be below the corresponding upshift curve, otherwise there will be no upshift or no downshift.

In order for the upshifts to progress 1->2->3->4->5->6 the upshift curves have to be spaced out and non-crossing/non-overlapping, and each upshift curve's corresponding downshift curve must be below it.

In order for the downshifts to progress 6->5->4->3->2->1 the downshift curves have to be spaced out and non-crossing/non-overlapping, and each downshift's corresponding upshift curve must be above it.

You will see that the following are necessary conditions to get the TCM to properly shift (and for you to be able to predict what the next gear would be):


PT shift table relationships:

basic relationships:
1->2 curve should be above 2->1 curve;
2->3 curve should be above 3->2 curve;
3->4 curve should be above 4->3 curve;
4->5 curve should be above 5->4 curve;
5->6 curve should be above 6->5 curve;

additional relationships:
3->2 curve should be above 1->2 curve;
4->3 curve should be above 2->3 curve;
5->4 curve should be above 3->4 curve;
6->5 curve should be above 4->5 curve;

this can be summarized as: the curves must not cross anywhere;

if they cross anywhere, then you will not be able to predict what gear the TCM selects when the operating point hits the cross.


This is where your upshift/downshift curves cross (marked with red circles):

19694

[GR8GAME]

1989119892

Well, I wasn't getting very far.

I've tried a number of things with no success. So, I had my local dealer flash the vehicle back to stock for me so that I can start over.
Here are the VERY stock files for the ZL1 I've been having issue's with.

I appreciate your help in this one. But this car is possessed or something, hahahhahha.
I'm going to drive it with the latest files loaded into the ECU, but leave the TCM alone...for now.

[joecar]

I'll look at this later tonite.

[GR8GAME]

Ok, I did some datalogging of the event I'm having problems with on this car.
I also did some video.

Any help would be appreciated as I'm starting to think there is something wrong here....

https://youtu.be/fVEqXvfyyU8

Here are the datalogs of the events as they unfold while I am just cruising along.

1994719948

[GR8GAME]

One of the things I am noticing while going through the logs is how much timing is pulled from the engine during the event!
It goes into the negatives! It goes from 30 degrees to 0 rather quickly during the event...

Any idea?
I'm trying my best to keep the throttle in the same location and not let that influence the problem any.

[joecar]

Can you log SAE.LAMBDA and GM.ETCTP...?

edit: added clarification.

[GR8GAME]

Sure!
I'll do that right away.

[joecar]

If you need to drop some pids, you can drop these:
- ENGLOAD
- ETCPED
- ETCPPS1
- MAP4
- TAC_PCT
- TRQ_ENG_C
- VOLTS

[joecar]

Which transmission do you have...? Do you have the A6 (6L80/6L90) or the A8 (8L90)...?

[joecar]

I'll look at this later tonite. ( I'm sorry, I've been slowed down during last week, but I'm still looking, I haven't given up )

[GR8GAME]

19949199501994919950

I may have hit the upload one too many times.

[GR8GAME]

( I'm sorry, I've been slowed down during last week, but I'm still looking, I haven't given up )

Trust me, I appreciate the help!

I hate getting these cars in for a "tune" that have been messed with before. Needle in a haystack and I really do appreciate the help.

At WOT, the car is awesome and performs perfect.

6L80E
Transmission on a T43 controller

[GR8GAME]

Something I've been thinking about.
https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?18710-Improving-shifts-via-the-ECM/page7

Post #67

The poster mentioned disabling TQ management on these tables:
D9401 = NO
D9412 = NONE
D9414 = NONE

I'm worried that I would be disabling some safety nannies if I mess with these parameters so I haven't shut them off at all.
but I've thought about experimenting with it...

[joecar]

Ok, try that, but if the shifts get looser/softer then do not continue driving it, revert back...

also read thru the rest of that thread, it looks like it has more info throughout it.

[GR8GAME]

GREAT INFO IN HERE!!!!!

A few points....

in SCAN TOOL, make sure you ALWAYS reset the Adaptive Learning between flashes

I am willing to share my file if anyone needs it.

Thank you, again, for the help!

Joe...your awesome!

[joecar]

This is important enough to quote in bold:

...

in SCAN TOOL, make sure you ALWAYS reset the Adaptive Learning between flashes

...

[joecar]

Yes, please, I'm interested in looking at the files and learning from them.

[GR8GAME]

Yes, please, I'm interested in looking at the files and learning from them.

20546

[joecar]

Thanks.