Volunteers needed for E38/E67 Calc.VET project.

[statesman]

I'm going to be working with joecar to try to produce a Calc.VET for E38/E67 vehicles. Neither of us has an E38/E67 vehicle so we need volunteers to do some tuning changes and make some logs for us.

We're not even sure yet if it can be done, but we are prepared to try... so if you have a suitable vehicle and want to be a part of this project, then let us know.

[ScarabEpic22]

I'm happy to help, I got started on this a few years back and just ran out of time. Have an E67 vehicle (and E78 too).

[joecar]

Erik, thanks.

[400ss]

E67 here

[minytrker]

I own a couple vehicles with E38's and dont mind helping.

[joecar]

Lorenz, thanks.



BTW:
I've been doing some LS1B Calc.MAFT on engine dyno, and it works ok...
but I prefer to do wideband only on engine dyno, so I do a modified Calc.MAFT.

[joecar]

This invitation includes E38, E39, E67, E83, E92, and any ECM that has VVE.

Note for E39, E83, E92:
these have MAP:BARO ratio on the VVE axis (rather than MAP like E38, E67)...
we have a pid to reference this (need to edit the Link_Exx.ini file to specify the cross linking pid).

[Ninety8C5]

I'm willing to help, have an E92. :)

[ScarabEpic22]

E78 is similar to the E39/E39A as it's TQ based but for port injected engines. Think we'll need to account for 3 separate scenarios, hopefully with only 1 or 2 configurations. :)

E38/E67: throttle based fueling, port injected, VVE axis - MAP
E78: TQ based fueling, port injected, VVE axis - MAP:BARO ratio
E39/E92: TQ based fueling, Direct Injected, VVE axis - MAP:BARO ratio

[joecar]

E78 is similar to the E39/E39A as it's TQ based but for port injected engines. Think we'll need to account for 3 separate scenarios, hopefully with only 1 or 2 configurations. :)

E38/E67: throttle based fueling, port injected, VVE axis - MAP
E39/E78: TQ based fueling, port injected, VVE axis - MAP:BARO ratio
E92: TQ based fueling, Direct Injected, VVE axis - MAP:BARO ratioE78... ok thanks, I'll add this to the descriptions.


E39: I thought this was direct injected...?


Where does E83 fit...?

[statesman]

Thank you to all our volunteers... we have a nice variety of ECM's between all our volunteers, which should make this project more interesting.

I'll send PM's to all of you.

[Mean Green Z28]

Umm I'm having issues tuning and if this will help me complete my vehicle while helping you'll I'm all in .. haha

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[statesman]

Umm I'm having issues tuning and if this will help me complete my vehicle while helping you'll I'm all in .. haha

So to get you to volunteer, I have to tune your engine for you. :laugh:

I'll send you a PM.

[Tre-Cool]

e83b is in the cruze/astra 1.6let.

probably not much call for it as the stock vve/maf is pretty close in them even when you up the boost. the biggest thing that holds them back is the factory spark. but i have one as my daily so can get 40 minute logs each way to work if required.

[statesman]

e83b is in the cruze/astra 1.6let.

probably not much call for it as the stock vve/maf is pretty close in them even when you up the boost. the biggest thing that holds them back is the factory spark. but i have one as my daily so can get 40 minute logs each way to work if required.

Having an engine with the vve/maf close might be really helpful for us... I'll send you a PM

[joecar]

+1 that will give us a sanity check.

[ScarabEpic22]

E78... ok thanks, I'll add this to the descriptions.


E39: I thought this was direct injected...?


Where does E83 fit...?

Yep, my bad you're correct Joe. E39/E39As are DI, I updated my previous post.

[joecar]

Yep, my bad you're correct Joe. E39/E39As are DI, I updated my previous post.No worries, I just wanted to make sure.

Do you know what engine uses the E83 and is it DI...?

[ScarabEpic22]

No worries, I just wanted to make sure.

Do you know what engine uses the E83 and is it DI...?

I think it's the 1.6L I4 in the Opel Astra. I would be really interested if this is the case and want to see a calibration, if it's a DI engine then perhaps its an example of GM using 1 ECM for both Port Injection and Direct Injection...

[Tre-Cool]

I'll put the wideband back in the car on the weekend then and start logging.

fuel trims in it are usually around the -3% mark for ltft and stft's sit around +/- 4% depending on weather.

[hrdtail78]

What ever became of this? Did it work? I got a E38 in my 2013 Silverado and would really like to perform this strategy of tuning on it.

[joecar]

We're stilling working on it (in spite of life trying to bring me down)...

I've developed a few calc_pids.txt files for use with various wideband combinations.

I'll be doing some more testing soon.

[joecar]

For example, here's a listing of the calc_pids.txt files I have come up with:

20118

You will find it very interesting what we have done with dual widebands (dynamically selecting the leanest of the two WB lambda's... we tested out at Martin's shop CPR Engines in LA, it works well).

[statesman]

What ever became of this? Did it work? I got a E38 in my 2013 Silverado and would really like to perform this strategy of tuning on it.

It's been slow going... me and joe have both had life getting in the way of us making progress, but this project has not been abandoned.

There are some technical difficulties still to overcome (which is why nobody has made a workable calc.VET for the E38 yet). I have come up with a new approach which may work, but I need a volunteer with an E38 who's prepared to do a lot of logging for me while I make changes to the tune. I want to focus just on the E38 now and I'll then look at other controllers when I get an E38 calc.VET working properly.

A project like this takes time and commitment... so if anyone has an E38 and is prepared to volunteer for the duration of this project, then let me know.

[joecar]

Here's my calc_pids.txt files...

they are named for the ECM and the LTFT/WB combination.


We will need to edit them, so I'll maintain them.

[LOCKNER13]

I would be interested as well if it is still possible to volunteer. Stock 07 denali 6.2 awd

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[joecar]

I would be interested as well if it is still possible to volunteer. Stock 07 denali 6.2 awd

Sent from my SM-N920P using TapatalkYes, please you're welcome.

[rcr1978]

Any interest in the E82 ecm for the 3.6L LGX VVT SIDI it's in a 17 Acadia, my OS is not mapped yet, same engine that's in the Cadillac and Camaro just not sure if they are using the same ecm.

[minytrker]

I have not tested it but guys are doing it with HPT already. Cant you just use the same PIDS they are using?

[statesman]

I would be interested as well if it is still possible to volunteer. Stock 07 denali 6.2 awd

Yes, you certainly can volunteer... just do two more posts in here and I'll send you a PM. (Private messaging becomes active when you have made 10 posts)

[statesman]

Any interest in the E82 ecm for the 3.6L LGX VVT SIDI it's in a 17 Acadia, my OS is not mapped yet, same engine that's in the Cadillac and Camaro just not sure if they are using the same ecm.

At this stage I'd like to focus on the E38 and then look at other controllers when we get the E38 working properly.

[statesman]

I have not tested it but guys are doing it with HPT already. Cant you just use the same PIDS they are using?

Can you post a link so I can look at that?

[joecar]

We'll do E38/E67 first (these 2 are fairly identical)...

and then we'll map this to E39, E78, E82, E84, E92...

some of those ECM's use MAP:BARO ratio on their VVE table axis (so it requires an extra calc pid);

and on some of those ECM's, the pid SAE.LAMBDA does not work on all OS's (this is bad because then we don't know what commanded fueling is)...
in those cases, the WO2BEN pid would have to assume a known fueling value from the OLFA and/or PE tables (maybe clone a lookup table).

[pir4te]

... so if anyone has an E38 and is prepared to volunteer for the duration of this project, then let me know.

I have a 2010 e38 and am able to log often as a volunteer.

[joecar]

I have a 2010 e38 and am able to log often as a volunteer.Thanks, appreciated.

[BADCADDY]

HI, joecar, new here and also very new to tuning, I understand some basic concepts but still very green, I have a 2009 CTSV, headers and 2.55 pulley, I don't have a wide-band yet would I be any help to you as a volunteer? I work nights so I can log all day plus I have plenty of road where I live that is private so no interruptions.

[statesman]

BADCADDY and pir4te, thank you to both of you for volunteering. You do need to have made 10 posts on here before your private messaging gets activated, so I can't privately message either of you at the moment.

[pir4te]

No problems.

[statesman]

pir4te, what mods does your engine have?

[pir4te]

pir4te, what mods does your engine have?

There's quite a bit in the detail but basically high compression NA daily street build utilising ethanol, managed with VVT. Tuned bolt-ons.

Please excuse my #humblebrag while I get my post count up to speed:

[pir4te]

Bored, decked and honed L77 with JE FSR domed forged and steel top ring, forged rods. 370ci
821 control heads with hollow stainless, valvetrain tweaks / setup on Spintron. High squish smallest chamber 26.5 degrees advance using e90.

[pir4te]

Tuned induction - air dam, OTR, 4" MAF with 1" straightener, ported TB and manifold with radius bars. Stock flex pump (ZL1) and injectors (LS7).
Exhaust tuned to ethanol - custom tri-y headers with megaphone expansion chambers, 2.5" straight through to x-pipe, per PipeMax.

[pir4te]

Cam is 222/226 on 115 LSA, 109 ICL stock base circle to retain AFM so 0.550" lift via 1.85 rockers and beehives. Deac is 224/228, Phaser has 26 degrees authority with good PTV, though plug straps are indexed to avoid dome tops.
Phaser parked DCR using 0.006" is 10.2, fully retarded like a Prius I sometimes run pump gas.

[joecar]

222/226 115 +6

I don't remember, when phaser is off, where is the cam parked at...? and when phaser is at full, where is cam at...?

edit: I meant +6 for cam advance (when you graph ICL it moves to the left, putting ICL at 109 and ECL at -221).

[statesman]

Please excuse my #humblebrag while I get my post count up to speed:

Your post count is up to speed now. :thumb_yello:

I'll send you a PM.

[BADCADDY]

I'm gonna take pir4te's lead and get mine up so I can help. I don't have much done to my car though.

[BADCADDY]

I just sold a Boss302 with a 2.3L VMP on it. This is my first LS and I'm loving it. The ctsv couldn't have been a better choice.

[BADCADDY]

I made the switch because my wife and I found out we have a little girl on the way.

[BADCADDY]

I just recently got back to states after serving overseas I was stationed in Yokosuka Japan, car scene is quite different there. I'm not looking to make an all out monster just a head tuner. I have a goal of pulling a certain friend back in Florida. But I want to be responsible and behind my own tuning so I don't have to be at the mercy of a tuner. I like managing my own affairs. Just need guidance and tips and study time. And I'm always down to volunteer

[pir4te]

222/226 115 -6

I don't remember, when phaser is off, where is the cam parked at...? and when phaser is at full, where is cam at...?

Cam parked is 0 deg phaser retard, is 109 deg intake centre line, is cam fully advanced 6 deg.
2 deg commanded retard gets 111 ICL (4 deg advanced)
6 deg commanded retard gets 115 ICL (straight up)
13 deg commanded retard gets 122 ICL (7 deg retard), phaser fully retarded.
IVC @ 0.006" cam parked is 66 deg ABDC, 79 deg fully retarded.

[statesman]

I'm gonna take pir4te's lead and get mine up so I can help. I don't have much done to my car though.

Your private messaging should be active now... I'll send you a PM.

[HSV]

I have a 2011 e38 and am able to log often as a volunteer.

[HSV]

Car is a HSV Grange

[HSV]

416 Stroker

[HSV]

Harrop OTR Cold Air intake

[HSV]

Factory Fuel Injectors, Fuel Pump, Throttle Body,Intake Manifold

[HSV]

Custom Tri Y 180 degree Header prototype set up for Dual Wideband sensors per bank.

[pir4te]

I have a 2011 e38 and am able to log often as a volunteer.


Car is a HSV Grange


416 Stroker


Harrop OTR Cold Air intake

Welcome HSV, while clocking up your post count to receive PMs what is your cam spec please?

[HSV]

233/249 Hydraulic Roller Crow Cam. Lobe Seperation 114. Advance Ground on Cam 1 Inlet/Exhaust Lobe Lift 0.3590. Inlet/Exhaust Valve Lift 0.6103. Inlet/Exhaust Rocker Ratio 1.7. 0.050 Valve Timing Inlet Opens 3 BTDC Closes 49 Exhaust opens 59 BBDC Closes 9

[HSV]

Engine components

torque plate sunnen hone cylinders + .005" o/s to get back to a new plateau bore surface
blue print and modify oil pump for increased pressure and flow
modify oiling system for improved flow
blue print all specs and clearances
full cnc porting of cylinder heads
race balance crankshaft assembly
ring gaps set
forged SRP pro kit pistons and file back rings
Lunati voodoo forged 4.00 stroke crankshaft
Lunati voodoo forged H beam rods
H series competition rod and main bearings
Durabond cam bearings
premium race timing chain set
revised timing chain guide
custom Crow roller cam
Crow dual valve spring and retainer kit
premium positive valve stem seals to suit dual springs
Hi perf. tie bar roller lifter set
.080 moly push rods
felpro gasket set
ARP main stud kit
ARP head bolt kit
power bond harmonic balancer
ARP balancer bolt kit
Blueprint assembled and built back to a complete package

[HSV]

Exhaust tuned to Premium 98 - custom tri-y headers with megaphone expansion chambers, 3" straight through to x-pipe, reduced to 2.5" there after per PipeMax.

[HSV]

Factory Bimodal Mufflers

[joecar]

Ok, so cam phaser at zero positions cam at it's installed position (+6 absolute adv in this case)...

and as cam phaser activates it retards from installed position by upto 13 degrees (putting absolute adv at -7 (graph moves to right by 13 degrees)).

Ok, thanks, I got it in my head now.

[T2000]

Hi Guys,

Sorry I missed this thread earlier.
If you're still after an E38 Volunteer....

I'm not as active as I used to be and dont roll the car out as much as I should :-/
BUT, i'm happy to help & this may just get me a little more motivated.

My setup is currently OLSD but happy to throw the MAF back in and post tunes and logs.

VE series 1 w/- L98/ 6L80.
Rotrex Centrifugal S/C & FMIC,
Custom L92 Heads w/- Y/T RRs
Cam: 214 / 218 0.601 / 0.591 112LSA
4>1 Long Tubes, 3" Exhaust.
Liquid Injected LPG / ULP tunes...

Currently on E38 OS 22612381 / Cal 12612380

AEM serial W/B.

Cheers, Chris

[joecar]

Chris/T2000,

you're welcome; we're just getting some stuff sorted out... standby.

[statesman]

I have a 2011 e38 and am able to log often as a volunteer.

Hi HSV, thanks for volunteering... I'll send you a PM.

[statesman]

Hi Guys,

Sorry I missed this thread earlier.
If you're still after an E38 Volunteer....

Hi T2000, thanks for volunteering... I'll send you a PM.

[opcode]

Any updates on this project? Anything I can do to help?

[joecar]

Yes, we're still working out some of the details... statesman may ask you to send him a log.


You can use the attached calc_pids.txt (it's not complete yet), rename it to calc_pids.txt and
move it to C:\User\<you>\Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration.

[statesman]

Any updates on this project? Anything I can do to help?

The project is still in the development stage... and we are still working on it.

How much logging can you do for me?

[opcode]

The project is still in the development stage... and we are still working on it.

How much logging can you do for me?


A few times a week, depending how much data you need.
Here is a quick log from to day after placing the pids.
20735

[Mean Green Z28]

Hey I should be able to help now too as we're done with tuning.

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[statesman]

A few times a week, depending how much data you need.
Here is a quick log from to day after placing the pids.

You don't appear to be logging any fueling errors.

[statesman]

Hey I should be able to help now too as we're done with tuning.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Awesome. You can use the calc.pid text file which joecar posted in post #69.

[opcode]

You don't appear to be logging any fueling errors.


Yeah, I didnt really understand the process. I think I've got it all sorted out now. Can you please confirm?
20747

[Mean Green Z28]

So what parameters do you want me to Log? Basically the 14 parameters in the Calc_Pid file? What others? E38 ECM

[wells]

I'd be glad to help if still needed. 09 E38 using Innovate LC2.

[Mean Green Z28]

here's what I logged this morning on my way to work. Very short test. We have LTFT off so that's all gonna show 0. Let me know if you want me to add or take out any.

[joecar]

here's what I logged this morning on my way to work. Very short test. We have LTFT off so that's all gonna show 0. Let me know if you want me to add or take out any.I'm looking thru your log...

if you reduce your pid channel count (see bottom of PIDs tab) you can increase the pid frame rate (we want as fast as possible).


Also, we need to see a rev up to see if SAE.LAMBDA is working properly... if it is, then we can decide which pids to drop to get down to 24 pid channels.

[joecar]

Drop the pid SAE.TP and replace it with GM.ETCTP, this brings the pid channel count up, to 31;

Depending on whether SAE.LAMBDA works prooperly, we'll drop these pids:
- E38.AFRATIO if SAE.LAMBDA works ok, or SAE.LAMBDA if it does not,
- GM.ACCEP,
- SAE.SHRTFT1,
- SAE.SHRTFT2,
- SAE.VSS,
- SAE.ECT,
this should bring the pid channel count down to 24.

[joecar]

EXT.WO2LAM1 looks noisy...

do you have the CALC.AFM1000 analog calc pid file I made for you a few weeks ago (was it you?)(yes, it was you, I see the pid CALC.AFM1000 selected in your log file).

[Mean Green Z28]

Well Bret's been using the SAE.LAMBDA vs. EXT.WO2LAM1 for all the tuning we've been doing, I hope it's accurate! haha ... could the noise be because of the high channel count? I've reduced the Channels as directed, will do some drives tomorrow. BTW, I'm using a Innovate SCG-1 Wideband/Boost controller with the serial connection.

[joecar]

Can you post some previous logs of SAE.LAMBDA and E38.AFRATIO, I want to compare those two pids.


With E38, to get faster sample rate from the wideband, we've come to the conclusion that you will have to use analog.

[Mean Green Z28]

Can you post some previous logs of SAE.LAMBDA and E38.AFRATIO, I want to compare those two pids.


With E38, to get faster sample rate from the wideband, we've come to the conclusion that you will have to use analog.

I guess I'll have to go in my dash to pull the wiring out haha
Attached most recent Log where we're trying to figure out what the F is causing some knock at part throttle pulls

[joecar]

Ok, thanks, your log shows SAE.LAMBDA working correctly.

[joecar]

Why does the SAE.FRP show so much variation...?

Is your FPR manifold referenced or unreferenced...?

[Mean Green Z28]

Why does the SAE.FRP show so much variation...?

Is your FPR manifold referenced or unreferenced...?

we did bump up the High numbers under fuel pump controls. I think it follows the PE mode? It did work though

[joecar]

Post you tune file.

If rail pressure varies (and not with MAP), then I'm wondering how the ECM determines the IFR...

[Mean Green Z28]

Post you tune file.

If rail pressure varies (and not with MAP), then I'm wondering how the ECM determines the IFR...

Here ya go. Maybe you can figure out what's been making us scratch our heads for months, haha. The point between normal/PE and lo/hi fuel rates and etc. have been a nightmare to deal with. And somehow there's a point where timing just goes through the roof during part throttle pulls.

[statesman]

If rail pressure varies (and not with MAP), then I'm wondering how the ECM determines the IFR...

The IFR table uses delta pressure... calculated from rail pressure and MAP.

[opcode]

Now that I have the logging sorted out, what now? Get a 30+ min log and post it w/ my tune?

[joecar]

The IFR table uses delta pressure... calculated from rail pressure and MAP.
That's what I was hoping... his IFR being flat confirms this... but I want to know that his FPR is referenced.


Mean Green Z28: is your FPR manifold referenced (is it close to the rails, and has a return tube going back)...?


What is your measured rail pressure (measure with reference hose temporarily disconnected, i.e. FPR exposed to barometric pressure)...?

[joecar]

20774


What are some of those ^ parameters used for, if the fuel pump has variable speed, the FPR should smooth this out... right?

( I see that variable speed pump is set to No in this case... but what do you do when it is set to Yes...? )

[joecar]

Now that I have the logging sorted out, what now? Get a 30+ min log and post it w/ my tune?



Drop the pid SAE.TP and replace it with GM.ETCTP, this brings the pid channel count up, to 31;

Depending on whether SAE.LAMBDA works prooperly, we'll drop these pids:
- E38.AFRATIO if SAE.LAMBDA works ok, or SAE.LAMBDA if it does not,
- GM.ACCEP,
- SAE.SHRTFT1,
- SAE.SHRTFT2,
- SAE.VSS,
- SAE.ECT,
this should bring the pid channel count down to 24.

Did you do that ^

Are we going to log MAF [g/s] or are we SD...?

So are we going to use STFT's instead of LTFT's (STFT's are too dynamic, LTFT's are more filtered)...?


Take a 20 minute log, see if you can get rpm into 4000-5000 range (just a few times), let's see what we get.

[joecar]

From your log in post #84 above

Bret scaled CL_STFT_MAF_VVE_REV_0038b.efi (https://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20762&d=1487310379)

I see that the WB goes overly lean after each large throttle closure... I see DFCO is disabled.

I see the STFT's trending up, pretty much pegging... we might want to see what the LTFT's are doing.

[Mean Green Z28]

That's what I was hoping... his IFR being flat confirms this... but I want to know that his FPR is referenced.


Mean Green Z28: is your FPR manifold referenced (is it close to the rails, and has a return tube going back)...?


What is your measured rail pressure (measure with reference hose temporarily disconnected, i.e. FPR exposed to barometric pressure)...?

the pressure you see is from the in tank controller, nothing at the rails .. it's a return-less system.


20774


What are some of those ^ parameters used for, if the fuel pump has variable speed, the FPR should smooth this out... right?

( I see that variable speed pump is set to No in this case... but what do you do when it is set to Yes...? )
Not quite sure of how it all works. We played with settings until we found that we can adjust the HI fueling pressure and it followed PE mode


From your log in post #84 above

Bret scaled CL_STFT_MAF_VVE_REV_0038b.efi (https://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20762&d=1487310379)

I see that the WB goes overly lean after each large throttle closure... I see DFCO is disabled.

I see the STFT's trending up, pretty much pegging... we might want to see what the LTFT's are doing.
LTFT is turned off as we saw that going to 0 at WOT/PE mode so Bret played with the VVE more ... then we played with the Intake Temp vs. fueling table to account for temperature changes through winter/etc.. And Bret turned off DFCO.

If there's other/better ways of doing it, I'm all ears! This was both our first time playing with a E38

[joecar]

the pressure you see is from the in tank controller, nothing at the rails .. it's a return-less system.
Then your IFR table is incorrect (it cannot be flat)... this will cause fueling to be wrong (ECM over-calculates the injector pulsewidth for non-WOT conditions).


Not quite sure of how it all works. We played with settings until we found that we can adjust the HI fueling pressure and it followed PE mode
Which settings (table id #) did you play with...?


LTFT is turned off as we saw that going to 0 at WOT/PE mode so Bret played with the VVE more ... then we played with the Intake Temp vs. fueling table to account for temperature changes through winter/etc.. And Bret turned off DFCO.
LTFT's may go to zero at WOT, that's ok. I was mentioning DFCO to make sure that it wasn't DFCO that was causing the lean peaks after throttle closes.


If there's other/better ways of doing it, I'm all ears! This was both our first time playing with a E38
It's not a matter of other ways... we have to sanity check what is currently running, make sure we understand the model (for example, returnless fuel system uses an un-referenced FPR which requires the IFR table to be sloped.

Yes, E38's seem very strange after working with LS1 and E40.

[joecar]

Your B4001 IFR table:

20777

This ^ flat IFR table is for a MAP-referenced FPR (i.e. FPR has hose connecting to intake manifold) (this is a return fuel system).

For a un-referenced FPR (returnless fuel system) the IFR has to be sloped (actually it goes as sqrt of pressure ratio).


400 kPa (which the ECM has to interpolate) corresponds to WOT with no boost.
< 400 kPa correspond to boost.
> 400 kPa corresponds to part throttle conditions.
468-488 kPa corresponds to closed throttle.

Also: you have to measure rail pressure to correctly shift/scale the IFR table.

[Mean Green Z28]

Hmm wonder if we have to start all over. You think it's why we're having trouble fine tuning it? And also the wild crazy curves and slopes on VVE table?

I'll be going back to a smaller 6766 Precision turbo and ditching the 7875 On3 turbo this year ... I'd like to enjoy it around town than be a highway warrior with high top end numbers. Maybe I'll change things around a bit to get things a bit better mechanically (like MAF locations etc.). I just don't feel like starting all over but if that's what it'll take, it'll have to be it.
The truck barely gets off from a stop and can't ever do a burnout haha but I'm hoping it's the combo of the 78 and 4L80E and 3.42 gearing that's giving me the bad low end

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[Mean Green Z28]

Your B4001 IFR table:

20777

This ^ flat IFR table is for a MAP-referenced FPR (i.e. FPR has hose connecting to intake manifold) (this is a return fuel system).

For a un-referenced FPR (returnless fuel system) the IFR has to be sloped (actually it goes as sqrt of pressure ratio).


400 kPa (which the ECM has to interpolate) corresponds to WOT with no boost.
< 400 kPa correspond to boost.
> 400 kPa corresponds to part throttle conditions.
468-488 kPa corresponds to closed throttle.

Also: you have to measure rail pressure to correctly shift/scale the IFR table.

I have sent InjectorConnection an email requesting the IFR table on these 80lb injectors. I know we were having issues with all this at the beginning when we decided to scale the tune. We were supposedly hitting the 512g/s limit I was told and what we ended up with was a bandaid I guess you could call.

[opcode]

Did you do that ^

Are we going to log MAF [g/s] or are we SD...?

So are we going to use STFT's instead of LTFT's (STFT's are too dynamic, LTFT's are more filtered)...?


Take a 20 minute log, see if you can get rpm into 4000-5000 range (just a few times), let's see what we get.

20785
20786

Attached are the PIDs and log. The tune is a MAF tune at least for now. I hit the default max frames, so it got cut off and I still have not ran the ext.AD wire to the WBO2. However I still think its of value, and I can get another tomorrow if needed. Thanks! :cheers:

[joecar]

20785
20786

Attached are the PIDs and log. The tune is a MAF tune at least for now. I hit the default max frames, so it got cut off and I still have not ran the ext.AD wire to the WBO2. However I still think its of value, and I can get another tomorrow if needed. Thanks! :cheers:Ok, I'm looking at your log...

[joecar]

opcode,

Good log

( sorry, in my previous reply I got crossed between you and Mean Green Z28 )

remove these pids:
- CALC.INJ1DC and CALC.INJ2DC, these are the wrong ones for E38 (you already are logging the right ones CALC.INJDCB1 and CALC.INJDCB2).
- GM.MAF, this is static I don't know why (you already are logging the right one SAE.MAF).
- GM.ENGLOAD.

Get wideband going... and then take some logs where you briefly go to 4000-5000 rpm.

[joecar]

Mean Green Z28:


Drop the pid SAE.TP and replace it with GM.ETCTP, this brings the pid channel count up, to 31;

Depending on whether SAE.LAMBDA works prooperly, we'll drop these pids:
- E38.AFRATIO if SAE.LAMBDA works ok, or SAE.LAMBDA if it does not,
- GM.ACCEP,
- SAE.SHRTFT1,
- SAE.SHRTFT2,
- SAE.VSS,
- SAE.ECT,
this should bring the pid channel count down to 24.

Did you do that ^

Are we going to log MAF [g/s] or are we SD...?

So are we going to use STFT's instead of LTFT's (STFT's are too dynamic, LTFT's are more filtered)...?


Take a 20 minute log, see if you can get rpm into 4000-5000 range (just a few times), let's see what we get.

[Mean Green Z28]

Mean Green Z28:



Did you do that ^

Are we going to log MAF [g/s] or are we SD...?

So are we going to use STFT's instead of LTFT's (STFT's are too dynamic, LTFT's are more filtered)...?


Take a 20 minute log, see if you can get rpm into 4000-5000 range (just a few times), let's see what we get.
Yeah I did modify the pid file but didn't get to do much before I had travel for work. Sorry, will get some good runs in when I get back.

Spoke to Bob at Injector Connection and got a pretty decent understanding on how to set up the tune with the new injectors. Leaving the stock IFR table as is and modify the iat modifier with a factor to match the different injectors (3.147 in this case), then change the small pulse and voltage tables etc to match.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[joecar]

No worries, take your time.

Can you post your injector data.

~Moderator~

[Mean Green Z28]

Here's the before and after. Made the changes on the Stock tune.

Basically, we looked at what the injectors flowed in the stock tune at 408kPa (29.653826 lb/hr) .. then looked at how much his injectors flowed at 408kPa (93.331 lb/hr) ... then divided to get the factor (3.147) ... then put that in the IAT vs. Fuel Flow table ... then modified the voltage/min pulse etc. to match the injectors as built.

I'm on Malta time right now, haha so I'll probably reply at weird times

[joecar]

Here's the before and after. Made the changes on the Stock tune.

Basically, we looked at what the injectors flowed in the stock tune at 408kPa (29.653826 lb/hr) .. then looked at how much his injectors flowed at 408kPa (93.331 lb/hr) ... then divided to get the factor (3.147) ... then put that in the IAT vs. Fuel Flow table ... then modified the voltage/min pulse etc. to match the injectors as built.

I'm on Malta time right now, haha so I'll probably reply at weird timesDoes your rail pressure measure 4-bar (58 psi)...?

Ok, in your tune file I see that B4001 is sloped (goes as sqrt of pressure), this is correct for un-referenced FPR (I wanted to confirm that it matched realty).

Ok, your scaling looks correct (I sanity checked the maths).

No problem, I'm in So.Cal. but I usually stay up most of the night.

[opcode]

Configured the my innovate MTX-L WB as below.

Stoich @ 14.13 (E10 Gas)
10:1AFR@ 0v
16.8:1AFR@ 5v



github repo (https://github.com/OpCode1300/E38_Tuning/tree/master/EFILive/PIDs) makes this a little easier for me, I hope thats ok.
I made some changes to the posted calc_pids.txt (https://github.com/OpCode1300/E38_Tuning/blob/master/EFILive/PIDs/calc_pids.txt) for the above WBO2 config, and to read lambda from my new CALC.WBV
I've also double the max frames to log in the scanner. However my laptop was not charged very much so I was only able to get a short log. please take a look an let me know if this is correct and useful.

20800

p.s
I think this config was getting ~40 frames/second, up from I think ~9

[Mean Green Z28]

Does your rail pressure measure 4-bar (58 psi)...?

not sure, I've never really checked recently. All he had me do was compare the values at 408kPa and add the multiplier and said that's all I need in addition to the other tables

[joecar]

not sure, I've never really checked recently. All he had me do was compare the values at 408kPa and add the multiplier and said that's all I need in addition to the other tables


Measure it because those values in the IFR table assume that this measurement is close to 400 kPa (58 psi).

[joecar]

Configured the my innovate MTX-L WB as below.

Stoich @ 14.13 (E10 Gas)
10:1AFR@ 0v
16.8:1AFR@ 5v


github repo (https://github.com/OpCode1300/E38_Tuning/tree/master/EFILive/PIDs) makes this a little easier for me, I hope thats ok.
I made some changes to the posted calc_pids.txt (https://github.com/OpCode1300/E38_Tuning/blob/master/EFILive/PIDs/calc_pids.txt) for the above WBO2 config, and to read lambda from my new CALC.WBV
I've also double the max frames to log in the scanner. However my laptop was not charged very much so I was only able to get a short log. please take a look an let me know if this is correct and useful.

20800

p.s
I think this config was getting ~40 frames/second, up from I think ~9

github is a good idea (makes it easier to sync up and share).




*CLC-00-110






factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "iff({EXT.AD1},{CALC.EXT_AD1_WBO2.lambda},{EXT.WO2L AM1})/{SAE.LAMBDA}"





This is ^ a pretty good good idea.


Your log shows LTFT's close to pegging positive...
( did you clear the trims after flashing...? )
( your the high LTFT's support the low MAF values )
you can create a map of LTFTBEN x MAFFREQ to adjust the MAF table and see if this brings the LTFT's closer to zero
( or more simply, just multiply the MAF table by 1.20 and start again ).


I see a problem with the pid CALC.TRIMMING... we may have to change it from "{SAE.LAMBDA}=1" to "abs({SAE.LAMBDA}-1)<0.001".

edit: if there is no abs() function, then we'll do sqrt(pow(x,2)) or iff(x>0,x,-x).

[opcode]

Switched the WBO2 lambda and custom pid to 14.7 since it looks like that's what the ecm is using.
Also scaled the MAF by 1.2 and reset the LTFTs as instructed.
20808

[joecar]

Switched the WBO2 lambda and custom pid to 14.7 since it looks like that's what the ecm is using.
Also scaled the MAF by 1.2 and reset the LTFTs as instructed.
20808LTFT's look pretty good now.

Let me analyze your log further, there are some calculations I want to check.

Thanks.

[Mean Green Z28]

Measure it because those values in the IFR table assume that this measurement is close to 400 kPa (58 psi).
Well I got a reply from him saying we have to use 408 as there's no 400 on the table. What's the stock psi of these trucks anyway?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[joecar]

Stock rail pressure is 400 kPa (58 psi) gauge pressure...

408 kPa is very close (if you really wanted to you could scale by sqrt(408/400), but this value is 1.0995, i.e. 1.01, so you would not really see any difference).


You want to measure rail pressure to make sure it is good.

[Mean Green Z28]

Stock rail pressure is 400 kPa (58 psi) gauge pressure...

408 kPa is very close (if you really wanted to you could scale by sqrt(408/400), but this value is 1.0995, i.e. 1.01, so you would not really see any difference).


You want to measure rail pressure to make sure it is good.
Thanks. Will be putting an order in for the Innovate fuel pressure gauge while I'm doing the transmission lines. It, just like the wide band, has serial output so I'm hoping we will able to also capture serial fuel pressure along with AFR as the guages are designed to be daisy chained

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[04colyZQ8]

I'm a previous HP tuners tuner, having a hard time with Ben factors, and learning EFI, I still use hpt to log, and efi to tune. I didn't see any E67 VE ben factors or Clc.VE I found this thread:) Still need E67? I have a LH6 5.3L with LS3 cam, LS2 intake, long tubes, LS7 maf, 88mm truck TB, and running it with a 2007 CTS-v E67, mated to GTO T56. I have EFI live, Tuner Cat, Hp tuners, they are all licensed to this truck, so if you need to do any comparing between the three..could be helpful? I can run multiple logs a week. The VVE learning curve has got me banging my head against a wall. TC doesn't support that well. HPT 2.24 is the one I have a license too, and it doesn't support VVE either, so I chose EFI, really like EFI, its VVE is great, just the user here that isn't trained enough to tune the VE. Let me know if you want another Volunteer

[joecar]

Yes, E38, E67, E92 and any ECM that has a polynomial VE.


I don't remember if you're running analog wideband or serial wideband...?


BEN is simply = commanded EQR x wideband lambda

[04colyZQ8]

Yes, E38, E67, E92 and any ECM that has a polynomial VE.


I don't remember if you're running analog wideband or serial wideband...?


BEN is simply = commanded EQR x wideband lambda

Sorry I posted this all over the board btw:( anyway yes analog through a/c port. Thanks for your help so far

[joecar]

No worries... I replied in your other thread: Were-do-I-find-Ben-factor-LTFT-or-any-ben-factor-I-don-t-see-any-ben-in-my-pids (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?27546-Were-do-I-find-Ben-factor-LTFT-or-any-ben-factor-I-don-t-see-any-ben-in-my-pids)

[opcode]

:secret:

Any more progress? Is there anything else I can help with?

[joecar]

We both got some stuff going on (particularly family stuff)... pretty soon we'll be spending more time on this.

In the meantime post a few logs and your calc_pids.txt.

[joecar]

*CLC-00-110






factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "iff({EXT.AD1},{CALC.EXT_AD1_WBO2.lambda},{EXT.WO2L AM1})/{SAE.LAMBDA}"





That is a good idea you have... since you may not get perfectly zero analog voltage, you might try something like this:
factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "iff({EXT.AD1}>0.2,{CALC.EXT_AD1_WBO2.lambda},{EXT.WO2LAM1})/{SAE.LAMBDA}"

but it's still a clever idea (automatically selects the wideband connection mode).


That reminds me: I have to see if there's and abs() operator.

[joecar]

Do you have 1 or 2 widebands connected...?

[nick123]

can i help
i have a 2009 g8 gt
i have a innovate lc2 and bosh wideband
i ordered a null modem from efi live do i need this or use a different setup ??

what settings to modify for proper logging pe afm etc.??
what calc.pids text file should i use?
log which pids?

[joecar]

can i help
i have a 2009 g8 gt
i have a innovate lc2 and bosh wideband
i ordered a null modem from efi live do i need this or use a different setup ??

what settings to modify for proper logging pe afm etc.??
what calc.pids text file should i use?
log which pids?Can you read the Lambda from your wideband...?

Can you log SAE.LAMBDA...?

[statesman]

Digging up an old thread.

I know that it's been a while and people move on, so I'm not sure how much demand there is anymore for an E38/E67 Calc.VET but if people still want to try to get a Calc.VET working then I think that I may have found a way to do it.

To know for sure if my idea will work, I'll need two volunteers with basically the same engine, but with different cams. If you have time to do some logging and want to help, then post your engine specs and hopefully we can find two people with engines similar enough to get something happening.

[pir4te]

Hi Statesman
My engine is out at the moment, keen to continue where we left off once fitted.
Likely new year.

[In-Tech]

I would be glad to help in any way I can. The only vehicle I have that might do a cam change is an E67 gmpp 525hp so I might be able to do a before and after on that one if it will help.

[statesman]

I would be glad to help in any way I can. The only vehicle I have that might do a cam change is an E67 gmpp 525hp so I might be able to do a before and after on that one if it will help.

That would be brilliant... getting logs of different cams on the exact same engine is better than I was hoping for. I will need you to run in MAF only mode for the logs. Let me know when you can do some logs for me and I'll give you the list of pids which I'd like you to log.

[statesman]

Hi Statesman
My engine is out at the moment, keen to continue where we left off once fitted.
Likely new year.

Hi pir4te
Nice to see you still here. :cheers:

[nick123]

Yes I just got my aftermarket exhaust installed finally and have been logging and tuning the vve and torque table..

[joecar]

Currently I'm calculating VVE numbers that are about 0.9 of what they should be... I don't want to fudge it, so I'm digging deeper to see what I left out.