Overseas OS + Calibrations on USA E98 ECM

[hacklerjason]

Has there been any testing with overseas software on the USA ecms? I'm curious to know if it would work, and if it would be the same as an ecm swap? I know the overseas ecms are e98 as well... Are the pinouts the same? Are there any differences in software aside from the obvious emissions stuff that the overseas model doesn't have and won't fault for not having?

[GMPX]

It won't work and we restrict the flashing of the non USA Operating system in to the USA ECM because it is very different and will likely cause corruption (much like you can't exchange different year model OS's on many of the gas ECM's).

[hacklerjason]

Understood... If the ecms are the same level what would be different about the software? Is it not an option to flash overseas software then flash the USA tunes or calibrations over the overseas operating system?

[GMPX]

It just can't be done, the overseas ECM's are based on 2014 software, the USA models are 2016 software. You can't flash calibrations from other Operating Systems over a different one.

[hacklerjason]

It just can't be done, the overseas ECM's are based on 2014 software, the USA models are 2016 software. You can't flash calibrations from other Operating Systems over a different one.
Maybe flash wasn't the correct term... What I'm looking to do is use over seas software for things that aren't exactly enforced where I live.. That being said... I want to flash the entire OS from overseas and in my experience working at a heavy equipment dealership... I have flashed one controller for multiple engines and it worked because the software within them were both made for the same ecu part number... I will have to compare when I get my truck on delivery, I haven't even gotten my truck yet but I own efilive and can't wait to tear into it... I have an overseas read and I will compare data to the USA version... Then what I wanted to do after the overseas os was written "import" (copy paste) one table at a time from the USA version over the overseas tables... Could you please explain how it wouldn't work? Has it been tested with this specific ecu?

[DURAtotheMAX]

Maybe flash wasn't the correct term... What I'm looking to do is use over seas software for things that aren't exactly enforced where I live.. That being said... I want to flash the entire OS from overseas and in my experience working at a heavy equipment dealership... I have flashed one controller for multiple engines and it worked because the software within them were both made for the same ecu part number... I will have to compare when I get my truck on delivery, I haven't even gotten my truck yet but I own efilive and can't wait to tear into it... I have an overseas read and I will compare data to the USA version... Then what I wanted to do after the overseas os was written "import" (copy paste) one table at a time from the USA version over the overseas tables... Could you please explain it wouldn't work? Has it been tested with this specific ecu?

I would think the only chance of making it work (assuming the hardware is the same), is using an MDI and TIS2WEB. There are a handful of controllers where EFILive only flashes several portions of the ECM, but not all....whereas a GM tool flashes everryyything (most of the time?).

Ross would have to answer that though.

[hacklerjason]

If I bought a new ecu over the counter to have on hand just in case, can efilive handle the task of flashing it up out of the box in case I brick my first one? I'm not scared at all I just want to know more about the capabilities before I go and start experimenting.... When the OS and calibrations are read out, can that read out be used to flash a blank controller into service?

[hacklerjason]

What are the different partitions of the ecus that would be different

[GMPX]

I would think the only chance of making it work (assuming the hardware is the same), is using an MDI and TIS2WEB. There are a handful of controllers where EFILive only flashes several portions of the ECM, but not all....whereas a GM tool flashes everryyything (most of the time?).

Ross would have to answer that though.
I can tell you what happens because has been done (with TIS). The ECM will become corrupted, the truck won't start and the corruption cannot be reversed, new ECM.....I don't know what else I can add to get the point across. :Eyecrazy:

[hacklerjason]

I can tell you what happens because has been done (with TIS). The ECM will become corrupted, the truck won't start and the corruption cannot be reversed, new ECM.....I don't know what else I can add to get the point across. :Eyecrazy:
Could you answer the above question in regards to bricked ecms... Can efi bring into service, a brand new ecm? If I made reads of my stock ecm prior can a new ecm, purchased blank, can efilive flash it into service?

[GMPX]

If I bought a new ecu over the counter to have on hand just in case, can efilive handle the task of flashing it up out of the box in case I brick my first one?
No, there is portions of the ECM's that cannot be read out to then be used to initialise an out of the box ECM, it requires TIS.
Then it also requires several items to be initialised with a TechII or similar on the vehicle itself.


I'm not scared at all I just want to know more about the capabilities before I go and start experimenting
I'm trying to save you some time and money, it has already been attempted (non US OS in to a new US ECM using TIS), it corrupted it and could not be recovered.


When the OS and calibrations are read out, can that read out be used to flash a blank controller into service?
No, see first response.

[hacklerjason]

No, there is portions of the ECM's that cannot be read out to then be used to initialise an out of the box ECM, it requires TIS.
Then it also requires several items to be initialised with a TechII or similar on the vehicle itself.


I'm trying to save you some time and money, it has already been attempted (non US OS in to a new US ECM using TIS), it corrupted it and could not be recovered.


No, see first response.
Then the ultimate question here is who is the baddest reverse engineer in here? I need to talk to him privately about some things I need in my chimney

[cindy@efilive]

Then the ultimate question here is who is the baddest reverse engineer in here? I need to talk to him privately about some things I need in my chimney

You've spoken with him.

At this point, feel free to order the ECM and try for yourself to see if your outcome is better than the answers provided.

Given the title of your post, it's reasonable to assume you are based in the USA, or in a country where USA EPA laws are managed under reciprocal arrangements. Please save yourself the embarrassment of asking EFILive to help you defeat federal legislation. If that is your intent, EFILive is not the product for you.

Cheers
Cindy

[hacklerjason]

You've spoken with him.

At this point, feel free to order the ECM and try for yourself to see if your outcome is better than the answers provided.

Given the title of your post, it's reasonable to assume you are based in the USA, or in a country where USA EPA laws are managed under reciprocal arrangements. Please save yourself the embarrassment of asking EFILive to help you defeat federal legislation. If that is your intent, EFILive is not the product for you.

Cheers
Cindy

You're absolutely right! The assumption about my locale was correct... Why would I ask someone who works with efilive to reverse engineer something for me to the degree of breaking the law? That's silly! I will however hold on to the tools since there are the best on the market...

[Snipesy]

Then the ultimate question here is who is the baddest reverse engineer in here? I need to talk to him privately about some things I need in my chimney

The whole point of reverse engineering is to become skilled with whatever you are trying to reverse engineer, you can't just buy this knowledge (at least not easily).

I haven't a clue. Could I figure it out? Probably. But it would take a lot of precious time. Probably a good couple months of working on it full time, if not more. Whose going to pay for that? You? Honestly it would probably be cheaper to hire one of the greatest lawyers in the country, and pursue legal action against GM or whoever made this ECM (Delco?).

[cindy@efilive]

You're absolutely right! The assumption about my locale was correct... Why would I ask someone who works with efilive to reverse engineer something for me to the degree of breaking the law? That's silly! I will however hold on to the tools since there are the best on the market...

I don't know why you did - only you can answer that question. Your right, it was silly. I'm glad you've seen the light ;)

Cheers
Cindy

[hacklerjason]

I don't know why you did - only you can answer that question. Your right, it was silly. I'm glad you've seen the light ;)

Cheers
Cindy
We got lost in translation, but have a great day nonetheless! Its memorial day weekend!

[hacklerjason]

The whole point of reverse engineering is to become skilled with whatever you are trying to reverse engineer, you can't just buy this knowledge (at least not easily).

I haven't a clue. Could I figure it out? Probably. But it would take a lot of precious time. Probably a good couple months of working on it full time, if not more. Whose going to pay for that? You? Honestly it would probably be cheaper to hire one of the greatest lawyers in the country, and pursue legal action against GM or whoever made this ECM (Delco?).
Continental made the ecu... Time I have... Money I have... Time to play with money I have... Just the direction to go with all of it is the grey area ;-)... I haven't even taken delivery of my Colorado yet, but its been on order a few weeks now.. Bought efi and trying to get my feet wet to see how I will be able to get down with it...

[hacklerjason]

The whole point of reverse engineering is to become skilled with whatever you are trying to reverse engineer, you can't just buy this knowledge (at least not easily).

I haven't a clue. Could I figure it out? Probably. But it would take a lot of precious time. Probably a good couple months of working on it full time, if not more. Whose going to pay for that? You? Honestly it would probably be cheaper to hire one of the greatest lawyers in the country, and pursue legal action against GM or whoever made this ECM (Delco?).
And where I come from we don't barter in money... We barter in beer ;-) ... Besides... Its only a matter of time until the knowledge I seek surfaces..

[hacklerjason]

The whole point of reverse engineering is to become skilled with whatever you are trying to reverse engineer, you can't just buy this knowledge (at least not easily).

I haven't a clue. Could I figure it out? Probably. But it would take a lot of precious time. Probably a good couple months of working on it full time, if not more. Whose going to pay for that? You? Honestly it would probably be cheaper to hire one of the greatest lawyers in the country, and pursue legal action against GM or whoever made this ECM (Delco?).
Point being I'm not scared to experiment... But I've got a brand new tool I need to learn how to properly use before I start experimenting... The information is around for older models... I can brick an ecu and that won't deter me... I'm already pricing out the gm tools to commission new ecus or attempt to bring them back from the dead

[Snipesy]

I'm guessing you just want to run deletes? Why else would you want to be doing this... You'd probably have better luck either somehow replacing the ECM outright, or reverse engineer your own US ECM. Then you just make a cax, and go to town. Or just not use EFI Live at all. Regardless of how you do it, it's not fun. Please heed my advice and walk away before you even begin this charade. I mean if you are really dedicated, I can't stop you. I just think you are being too naive. In this line of work you need to be as humble as possible, else you are just gonna get hurt.

[hacklerjason]

I'm guessing you just want to run deletes? Why else would you want to be doing this... You'd probably have better luck either somehow replacing the ECM outright, or reverse engineer your own US ECM. Then you just make a cax, and go to town. Or just not use EFI Live at all. Regardless of how you do it, it's not fun. Please heed my advice and walk away before you even begin this charade. I mean if you are really dedicated, I can't stop you. I just think you are being too naive. In this line of work you need to be as humble as possible, else you are just gonna get hurt.
I'll make no such claims... I'm only putting feelers out for knowledge of the abilities of the tools, and will make no such claims about what it can and cannot do... Making cax files is on the list of things to research... Unless you have a thread open that speaks on cax files you'd like yo share before telling me to use the search function which I will be doing otherwise... Being humble isn't what I see to be relevant? I don't claim to be expert, but I did say I'm not scared... I'm not rich, but am comfortable enough to pay for my own mistakes made by reverse engineering as it won't be the first or last time... I'm not bragging about anything really there so I didn't see the relevance to being humble... I'm also not that guy that does cool shit to my cool shit and puts it all over the place... I am about the build... When the builds are finished I bore easily, sell and buy another to start over But all the same... Enjoy your memorial day weekend...

[hacklerjason]

I'm guessing you just want to run deletes? Why else would you want to be doing this... You'd probably have better luck either somehow replacing the ECM outright, or reverse engineer your own US ECM. Then you just make a cax, and go to town. Or just not use EFI Live at all. Regardless of how you do it, it's not fun. Please heed my advice and walk away before you even begin this charade. I mean if you are really dedicated, I can't stop you. I just think you are being too naive. In this line of work you need to be as humble as possible, else you are just gonna get hurt.
And just a piece of my mind... I do find it fun... I am a professional technician for the last 10 years, 15 total... I find it fun and I enjoy it... I like being challenged and my favorite thing in the world is when one of my mechanics tell me it can't be done... What they meant was that they can't do it... And the work my hands produce shows the difference between guys that show up for a paycheck and those that actually enjoy what they do... Just because you hate what you do means everyone does... Try to cheer up guy! Don't be a Debby downer

[GMPX]

I like being challenged and my favorite thing in the world is when one of my mechanics tell me it can't be done... What they meant was that they can't do it...
Whilst that is sometimes true, you must also be willing to take advice from others mistakes. Like I had said to you, there has been an instance of non US software put in to the US ECM and it didn't end well and the ECM required replacement. I would say this was something GM did on purpose.

[hacklerjason]

Whilst that is sometimes true, you must also be willing to take advice from others mistakes. Like I had said to you, there has been an instance of non US software put in to the US ECM and it didn't end well and the ECM required replacement. I would say this was something GM did on purpose.
Although I never did say it wasn't true, I was more inquiring on the specifics of what was different...

[GMPX]

There is portions of the ECM's flash memory that cannot be accessed (not even by TIS), these are set up at Conti at the time of manufacturing. Unfortunately the structure of the data contained there changes between year models (in this case between US and non US). When you force an incompatible OS in there that data ends up getting corrupted and cannot be recovered, in the case of the E98 the vehicle will not start and the ECM becomes locked (not reversible).

[hacklerjason]

Great! Thanks for that... I didn't mean to stir shit up but when a guy tells me to walk away or risk being hurt, I'm going to stir the pot just for the sake if seeing this "hurt"... And who does the hurting? And who does this " hurt", hurt?

[hacklerjason]

Off thread subject, but can efilive recal replaced parts like injectors and vgt (if these are calibrated, they are for John Deere)

[hacklerjason]

I don't mean anything illegal, I mean quite the opposite.. If you install replacement injectors but do not calibrate them, even if it runs, you're out of emissions compliance... Can efilive cal into the ecm these critical numbers?

[hacklerjason]

Whilst that is sometimes true, you must also be willing to take advice from others mistakes. Like I had said to you, there has been an instance of non US software put in to the US ECM and it didn't end well and the ECM required replacement. I would say this was something GM did on purpose.
I was also under the impression that continental provides only the ecu and not the software... Gm put the software of their own on it... So I am not sure what SSTs I will need to attempt this task... Should I investigate the dealer level tools from GM, or the OEM level tools from conti or VDO?

[GMPX]

Off thread subject, but can efilive recal replaced parts like injectors and vgt (if these are calibrated, they are for John Deere)
Yes and no, in theory the VGT learn should work, the injector flow programming I am not 100% sure on. We can do it for the 6.6L Duramax but as it has never been asked before on the E98 we've never looked in to it to know if the process it the same.


Should I investigate the dealer level tools from GM, or the OEM level tools from conti or VDO?
If I said don't bother would it matter :pokey:
The 'dealer level' tool is what bricked the test ECM (TIS2WEB), I would expect Conti would laugh at you if you asked for their manufacturing hardware, but you could try (FWIW the ECM is made in France).
Conti would supply GM with a functional ECM for GM to then put final software in at the plant or dealer, they wouldn't be sent from the factory to GM totally blank. Unfortunately it is that factory accessible data that gets wiped (corrupted) which is why TIS cannot be used to reverse the corruption because GM don't have access to it.

If this is something you really want to peruse until the end then you are probably better off just getting hold of an overseas ECM as someone else suggested, FYI, the service number of the overseas E98 is 55591599.

Good Luck.

[hacklerjason]

Yes and no, in theory the VGT learn should work, the injector flow programming I am not 100% sure on. We can do it for the 6.6L Duramax but as it has never been asked before on the E98 we've never looked in to it to know if the process it the same.


If I said don't bother would it matter :pokey:
The 'dealer level' tool is what bricked the test ECM (TIS2WEB), I would expect Conti would laugh at you if you asked for their manufacturing hardware, but you could try (FWIW the ECM is made in France).
Conti would supply GM with a functional ECM for GM to then put final software in at the plant or dealer, they wouldn't be sent from the factory to GM totally blank. Unfortunately it is that factory accessible data that gets wiped (corrupted) which is why TIS cannot be used to reverse the corruption because GM don't have access to it.

If this is something you really want to peruse until the end then you are probably better off just getting hold of an overseas ECM as someone else suggested, FYI, the service number of the overseas E98 is 55591599.

Good Luck.
You are a much nicer character to banter with vs the last guy! I'm not deterred and I have a bunch of my buddies with e98 rados on order... We will all be splitting the cost of the hardware required and I'm not afraid to go straight up and ask for the requirements of programming... Since gm only performs end of line programming I think it would be required to investigate VDO or conti hardware solutions.... Thanks for the $0.02

[madmanmartin]

hacklerjason shoot me your phone # martin@madmanengineering.com

[GMPX]

You are a much nicer character to banter with vs the last guy!
You got me on a good day :grin: