help with twin turbo tune

[Cubicylndr16]

I'm working on two problems. However, I'm sure you will find others. 1) lean spike on quick initial throttle movement; and 2) KR under boost but it is not constantly happening. I'm a beginner with tuning and efi live and I'm struggling to get any further with my tune. I have attached the current tune and most recent log file.

Problem #1 - I think I'm slowly working it out by increasing B3426 and adjusting B3428 to blend the rich spike into the normal commanded fuel. But please, any more tips would be great.

Problem #2, I have NO CLUE what to do.

Thanks in advance. Here are the detail on my car:

408ci LQ4
9.2:1
317 heads, stock valve size
Cam is 232/238 .612/.615 116+2 114icl
Twin PT 6776, .70/.81ar ball bearing
E-Boost 2 with dual solenoids
Ls6 intake
ZR1 3 bar map
Bosch O2 Sensors (front only)
No MAF
Stock ls1 throttle body
FIC 1000 injectors
Pump gas, no meth spray
0411 ECU 99-02 f-body pin outs
Innovate LC-2 wideband

[joecar]

Cam is 232/238 .612/.615 116+4 114icl

With 116 lsa and +4 advance, wouldn't the icl be 112...?

[joecar]

Is your FPR manifold-referenced or un-referenced...?

What is measured rail pressure (measured with reference hose temporarily removed)...?

[joecar]

B3426, B3428: these are for fuel wall wetting/evaporation (on the ports of the head and intake), I think you should put these back to stock.

[Cubicylndr16]

With 116 lsa and +4 advance, wouldn't the icl be 112...?

It's 116+2. Typo. Sorry. I'm glad that you replied however. I've actually followed some of the advice that you've given other forum members in the past. What are your thoughts on my Tune and log?

[Cubicylndr16]

Is your FPR manifold-referenced or un-referenced...?

What is measured rail pressure (measured with reference hose temporarily removed)...?

It is referenced. I have it set at 58 without the reference line connected

[Cubicylndr16]

B3426, B3428: these are for fuel wall wetting/evaporation (on the ports of the head and intake), I think you should put these back to stock.

I actually don't know what stock would be. I'm on COS5 and the 0411 ECU that I bought did not have a stock tune in it when I started. I was given a base tune by someone that I know. I was adjusting those because I found a thread in which this resolved another persons lean tip in spike. I'm open to your suggestions.

[joecar]

Try this:

B3647: set the 100 kPa column to 1.22 EQR, and from the 70 kPa column ramp up to the 100 kPa column; set all the 1.0000 cells to 1.0088.
B3618: set to 1.2607 all across.
B3611: set to min.
B3612: set to max.
B3601: set this to 14.2 (you're probably running 93 octane with 10% alchohol).

If you're still tuning, set B4205 to max, and set B3313 to max.

Make sure you see a MAF DTC if you intend to run SD.

[joecar]

It is referenced. I have it set at 58 without the reference line connectedOk, for referenced FPR, you have to edit these:
- B4001 has to be flat all across (copy the 0 kPa cell to all cells).
- B3701 copy the 0 kPa row to all rows.

[joecar]

It's 116+2. Typo. Sorry.
Ok, no worries, just sanity checking.


I'm glad that you replied however. I've actually followed some of the advice that you've given other forum members in the past. What are your thoughts on my Tune and log? see my suggestions above...

if you still get the lean spike on initial throttle, then set B3613 to 40 kPa and try again; otherwise set B3613 to 105 kPa, this lets you associate B3647 to non-boost fueling and B3618 to boost fueling.

[joecar]

Also, make sure to enter all the injector data from the FIC datasheet.

[Cubicylndr16]

Try this:

B3647: set the 100 kPa column to 1.22 EQR, and from the 70 kPa column ramp up to the 100 kPa column; set all the 1.0000 cells to 1.0088.
B3618: set to 1.2607 all across.
B3611: set to min.
B3612: set to max.
B3601: set this to 14.2 (you're probably running 93 octane with 10% alchohol).

If you're still tuning, set B4205 to max, and set B3313 to max.

Make sure you see a MAF DTC if you intend to run SD.

B3647 is my comman fuel vs rpm. Could I be looking at the wrong fields?

[joecar]

You have STFT trimming on stoich cells in B3647 (aka semi open loop, SOL)(i.e. OL STFT on stoich)... this will skew your wideband data.

you can disable SOL by setting the 1.000 EQR cells to values slightly off 1.000, e.g. 1.088 or 0.99.

wideband also shows that in spite of STFT's, idle is way rich...

so, disable SOL, edit the injector tables, and redo the VE table.

[joecar]

I actually don't know what stock would be. I'm on COS5 and the 0411 ECU that I bought did not have a stock tune in it when I started. I was given a base tune by someone that I know. I was adjusting those because I found a thread in which this resolved another persons lean tip in spike. I'm open to your suggestions.Ok, can do 2 things here:

copy stock from a 2002 F-car tune (this has LS6 intake)

or

play with them some more to see what happens.

[joecar]

B3647 is my comman fuel vs rpm. Could I be looking at the wrong fields?You're fueling from B3647 until MAP goes above 90 kPa and then fueling is from B3618...

so setup B3647 as I said above and see if this fixes the initial throttle lean spike.


But remember to edit injector tables and redo VE table.

[joecar]

Instead of GM.AFR I like to use GM.EQIVRATIO because it is independent of stoich AFR...

the stock GM tune has B3601 set to 14.63 and the LC-2 assumes 14.7, and your tank will propbaly have E10+/-5 in it...

have a look at the pid CALC.WO2BEN (CLC-00-110) in this file: calc_pids.txt (https://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14575&d=1360953394) from the Calc.VET thread...

it removes the need to know the values of stoich assumed by the PCM, by the wideband, and of what's actually in the fuel tank.

[Cubicylndr16]

okay. I'm on it as we speak.

[Cubicylndr16]

You're fueling from B3647 until MAP goes above 90 kPa and then fueling is from B3618...

so setup B3647 as I said above and see if this fixes the initial throttle lean spike.


But remember to edit injector tables and redo VE table.

I understand everything but setting up B3647 I think. When I go to B3647 this is what I'm looking at. See attached.

19897

[Cubicylndr16]

I understand everything but setting up B3647 I think. When I go to B3647 this is what I'm looking at. See attached.

19897

nevermind. I got it. I was being ignorant and not converting from metric to imperial.

[joecar]

Also, in tunetool, go Edit->Properties and set Commanded Fuel to EQratio.

[joecar]

Also, go Edit->Properties and set Volumetric Efficiency to g*K/kPa.

[Cubicylndr16]

Try this:

B3647: set the 100 kPa column to 1.22 EQR, and from the 70 kPa column ramp up to the 100 kPa column; set all the 1.0000 cells to 1.0088.
B3618: set to 1.2607 all across.
B3611: set to min.
B3612: set to max.
B3601: set this to 14.2 (you're probably running 93 octane with 10% alchohol).

If you're still tuning, set B4205 to max, and set B3313 to max.

Make sure you see a MAF DTC if you intend to run SD.

I believe I made all of your suggested changes.

1) Lean spike on tip-in SOLVED.
2) Attached is the new tune and a new log. The log is of 7-8 short pulls in 2nd and 3rd gear. To give you an idea of the conditions: I was on the highway and circled a cloverleaf interchange several times and pulled between off/on ramps.
3) Again, I am getting random KR. I'm making similar pulls and getting it 1 out of every 5. What do you think?
4) I copy and pasted the pid .txt to Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration but I couldn;t figure out how to log it.

19898

19899

[joecar]

On fhe PIDs tab, on the pid CALC.WO2BEN go rightclick->More Info, this shows that you need to select the pid GM.EWIVRATIO...

and to keep the pid channel count no greater than 24, remove the pid GM.AFR.

[joecar]

I'm going to move this thread to the Gen III section...

[joecar]

I believe I made all of your suggested changes.

1) Lean spike on tip-in SOLVED.
2) Attached is the new tune and a new log. The log is of 7-8 short pulls in 2nd and 3rd gear. To give you an idea of the conditions: I was on the highway and circled a cloverleaf interchange several times and pulled between off/on ramps.
3) Again, I am getting random KR. I'm making similar pulls and getting it 1 out of every 5. What do you think?
4) I copy and pasted the pid .txt to Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration but I couldn;t figure out how to log it.

19898

19899I'll look at your files later tonite or early tomorrow.

[Cubicylndr16]

I'm going to move this thread to the Gen III section...

Okay. Thanks.

What are your thoughts on the KR?

[Cubicylndr16]

I'll look at your files later tonite or early tomorrow.


Okay. I have team viewer and unlimited acces to a dyno by my home. I would be happy to setup and pay for a tuning session if you or someone you know is interested once we work out the main issues in my tune.

[Cubicylndr16]

On fhe PIDs tab, on the pid CALC.WO2BEN go rightclick->More Info, this shows that you need to select the pid GM.EWIVRATIO...

and to keep the pid channel count no greater than 24, remove the pid GM.AFR.


Hmm... I don't have CALC.WO2BEN on the pid tab anywhere.

[joecar]

Hmm... I don't have CALC.WO2BEN on the pid tab anywhere.

Copy this file calc_pids.txt (https://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14575&d=1360953394) to C:\Users\xxxxxx\Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration... and restart the scantool

if your current calc_pids.txt has anything in it (that you defined) then post it here so we cam merge the two.

[Cubicylndr16]

Copy this file calc_pids.txt (https://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14575&d=1360953394) to C:\Users\xxxxxx\Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration... and restart the scantool

if your current calc_pids.txt has anything in it (that you defined) then post it here so we cam merge the two.

Great timing. I literally just figured it out. I now have that selected

[joecar]

If you already did that then on the PIDs tab uncheck Supported, click on the column heading Parameter (click on the word) to sort the lisyt of pids by the RH column... then scroll down the RH column until you find CALC.WO2BEN and select it, then find GM.EQIVRATIO and select it...

and abandon the pid GM.AFR



( BTW: AFR = stoichAFR / EQR = stoichAFR &* Lambda )

[joecar]

Ah, ok, I'm typing ahead of you, it's ok, it may help others reading this thread.

[Cubicylndr16]

Ah, ok, I'm typing ahead of you, it's ok, it may help others reading this thread.

I agree. I'm actually in the car now with my laptop about to go log. any suggestions beforehand? What are your thoughts on that last log and tune file I posted?

[joecar]

A0001, A0002: set these to 100%.

[joecar]

Operate throttle more smoothly (less jerking motion) if you can.

[Cubicylndr16]

A0001, A0002: set these to 100%.

See attached. This is what were working on

[joecar]

Your VE table is a little too high, it needs to come down a little.

Before applying the map, make sure to apply:
- low cell counter filter,
- transient filter (exclude data where ECT is too cold/hot and where TP moves more than 1% per 100 ms, say).

Look at where the map hits in the VE table, you will have to handraulically bring down the surrounding areas to that level.

[joecar]

The small/minor KR in the log may not be real knock, but let's keep an eye on it.

[joecar]

See attached. This is what were working onHey, good job, nicely done :cheers: I like the subdued color, car has good stance.

I see it has the LPE 58/4x->24x/1x converter.

Is there any way to get cold air into those filters...?

[Cubicylndr16]

Hey, good job, nicely done :cheers: I like the subdued color, car has good stance.

I see it has the LPE 58/4x->24x/1x converter.

Is there any way to get cold air into those filters...?

The orange box? That's the 2 step.

The inner fenders are removed so the filters catch a good amount of air

[joecar]

The orange box? That's the 2 step.

The inner fenders are removed so the filters catch a good amount of airAh, I see.

Ah, I see.