E38 VATS Non-start

[LastCall]

So I have been trying to get an LS2 going into a 1970 Camaro. The issue is that it cranks, starts up and revs to about 1500 rpm, sputters, and then dies. Each start, it runs for less time until it just cranks. I think it is VATS. Fuel pressure was solid. If you give it any gas, the engine dies immediately. APP and ETCTP seem fine, they both respond to throttle input with engine off.

The details are as follows:

2006 LS2 (58X)
PSI Harness
2007 TBSS Throttle Body (silver blade)
2010 Camaro SS Accelerator Pedal Assembly
Bosch Green Top 42# Injectors (scaled for 4 bar)
Bypass style regulator set at 58 PSI

GM Service E38 Number: 12597121
GM OS: 12608677
GM T42 Controller
TM T42 OS: 24235341

I applied the patch, updated the VATS as such:

LABELS
Parameters Value
{G1204} VATS Enable Yes
{G1205} VATS Auto learn Enable Yes
{G1206} VATS Required To Run No
{G1208} VATS Fail Diagnostic Disabled
{G1209} VATS Mode No
{G1210} VATS Type Type 2
{G1211} Remote Start Allowed Yes
{G1214} Relearn Count 3.000000 Counts
{G1215} Relearn Timer 600.000000 Seconds
{G1216} Theft Relearn Password Yes

I also tried many combinations of No and Yes and Type without any change.

The starter relay was set like this:
LABELS
Parameters Value
{G1213} Clutch Depress To Crank Yes
{G1217} Maximum Cranking Time 15.000000 Seconds
{G1219} Starter Relay Diagnostic Disabled
{G1220} Starter Relay Type Not Used

What could it be??

Do I need to change any DTCs to Not Reported?

[ScarabEpic22]

Is 06 the crossover year where some LS2's are 24x and some are 58x?

Try setting G1204 to No, is there a VATS patch available for your OS? Try full flashing this as well, old threads mention you need to full flash to remove VATS.

Have you verified the Camaro pedal assembly works with the OS you're using?
Have you verified the TBSS throttle works with the OS you're using? TBSS' only used truck throttle bodies, if it's a "LS2 silver blade" then it's likely an 06-08 Vette tb (even better!)
Do the +5V throttle voltage lines move appropriately when moving the pedal based on the OS? Depending on the OS/platform in question: 1 line should move up from 0->5V and the other from 5->0V; 1 line move down from 5->0V, the other up from 0->5V; both move from 0->5V; both move from 5->0V.

It doesnt look like the VIN matches the OS, however if this ECM was programmed properly it will be setup as an 07+ Silverado. The pedal assembly and throttle body (might be ok) don't match the currently programmed OS. These are going to lead to a few issues that may or may not be able to be resolved without matching these up. Do you have a truck pedal assembly and/or a truck throttle body you could swap out and try?

[joecar]

In addition to what Erik said, also try setting G1210 to Type 3.

[LastCall]

Is 06 the crossover year where some LS2's are 24x and some are 58x?

Try setting G1204 to No, is there a VATS patch available for your OS? Try full flashing this as well, old threads mention you need to full flash to remove VATS.

Have you verified the Camaro pedal assembly works with the OS you're using?
Have you verified the TBSS throttle works with the OS you're using? TBSS' only used truck throttle bodies, if it's a "LS2 silver blade" then it's likely an 06-08 Vette tb (even better!)
Do the +5V throttle voltage lines move appropriately when moving the pedal based on the OS? Depending on the OS/platform in question: 1 line should move up from 0->5V and the other from 5->0V; 1 line move down from 5->0V, the other up from 0->5V; both move from 0->5V; both move from 5->0V.

It doesnt look like the VIN matches the OS, however if this ECM was programmed properly it will be setup as an 07+ Silverado. The pedal assembly and throttle body (might be ok) don't match the currently programmed OS. These are going to lead to a few issues that may or may not be able to be resolved without matching these up. Do you have a truck pedal assembly and/or a truck throttle body you could swap out and try?

Thanks for the response!

I did set G1204 to No.

All flashes with VAT changes were full flashes.

I verified that the App and TB (APP and ETCTP PIDs) followed each other with key on and engine off. It also looked like the TB went to about 17-19% on start up which seems right to me. I did not log the voltages between the two sensors. I only see two throttle voltage PIDs - TPMIN1 and TPMIN2. Were you referring two probing with a multimeter and checking voltage?

The OS is for 2007 Avalanche according to the VIN decoder I used.

I will look into the truck pedal assembly. I assume Silverado and Avalanche use the same? I think the pin outs are different as well. I'll also try to source a stock truck TB. Do the 08 and up Silverado and TBSS share the same TB?

Based on the provided logs, does it look like the VATS are disabled properly. The reason I have multiple logs is because I tried many full flashes with different VAT combinations - Type 2 and 3, as well as selecting some and all No's.

Should I have done a relearn procedure? Are there DTCs to remove?

Man the Gen 3 stuff is much easier!! Haha

[LastCall]

In addition to what Erik said, also try setting G1210 to Type 3.

I tried that without any change.

Erik - ScarabEpic22 - nice to meet you and thanks for posting. I've read a lot of your posts.

[joecar]

Try also:
- set G1214 to 1.
- set G1215 to 1.

[LastCall]

Try also:
- set G1214 to 1.
- set G1215 to 1.

Will do. Anyway to confirm in the logs VATS were disabled?

[slows10]

What model car is the 2006 ls2 engine from? did you confirm there is a 58x reluctor wheel on the crankshaf,t and not 24x ? What color is the crankshaft position sensor?

[joecar]

Log the pid GM.VTD during cranking.

[slows10]

The only Ls2 engine to use a 58x reluctor in 2006 was just the corvette I believe. If the engine came from any other car it is 24x and the e38 ecm is not setup to operate 24x.

[LastCall]

Log the pid GM.VTD during cranking.

Those logs have VTD, or were you referring to future logs?


The only Ls2 engine to use a 58x reluctor in 2006 was just the corvette I believe. If the engine came from any other car it is 24x and the e38 ecm is not setup to operate 24x.

Pretty sure it is gray, but Ill double check.

[joecar]

I must have missed in the logs, let me look again.

[LastCall]

Great thank you. Let me knowing you see anything. Getting ready to pull my hair out! Lol

[GMPX]

So I have been trying to get an LS2 going into a 1970 Camaro. The issue is that it cranks, starts up and revs to about 1500 rpm, sputters, and then dies. Each start, it runs for less time until it just cranks. I think it is VATS. Fuel pressure was solid. If you give it any gas, the engine dies immediately. APP and ETCTP seem fine, they both respond to throttle input with engine off.

VATS on E38 kills spark and fuel instantly, it won't do anything more than crank, if it fires and does run for a bit then it won't be VATS.
Someone with more knowledge on conversions than me might chime in but I don't think it is a good idea to mix and match different year model parts.

2006 LS2
2007 TBSS Throttle Body (silver blade)
2010 Camaro SS Accelerator Pedal Assembly

I don't know if that 2010 Pedal will play nice with the TB throttle. I think Erik is on to it with his post.

[LastCall]

VATS on E38 kills spark and fuel instantly, it won't do anything more than crank, if it fires and does run for a bit then it won't be VATS.
Someone with more knowledge on conversions than me might chime in but I don't think it is a good idea to mix and match different year model parts.

2006 LS2
2007 TBSS Throttle Body (silver blade)
2010 Camaro SS Accelerator Pedal Assembly

I don't know if that 2010 Pedal will play nice with the TB throttle. I think Erik is on to it with his post.

Thanks for chiming in GMPX.

We have the truck pedal installed and the truck TB is on its way. We will now have a truck ECM/OS, pedal, and TB.

Crossing fingers!!

[ScarabEpic22]

Thanks for chiming in GMPX.

We have the truck pedal installed and the truck TB is on its way. We will now have a truck ECM/OS, pedal, and TB.

Crossing fingers!!

Let us know, hope it's that easy. It sucks these later parts cant be interchanged as easily as before. Makes swapping and conversions more tricky (and expensive!).

[LastCall]

No luck!

TB did not change anything.

Thoughts anyone?

[GMPX]

Ok, if the engine is shutting down the ECM must be setting some sort of DTC, is it?
Do you have a MAF fitted? If not then DO NOT disable the MAF DTC's, they must remain active.

[LastCall]

Here are the DTCs on most of the logs.

P0650
U0121
U0140

Yes, MAF is fitted. DTCs for MAF are enabled.

Did anything stand out in the tune or logs that would suggest VATS are enabled and functioning?

[ScarabEpic22]

P0650 is a bit concerning, the ECM is trying to turn on the SES/MIL and either cant or it's on all the time...

Lost comms with the BCM (not surprising) and lost comms with the EBCM (again not surprising).

As Ross said, if VATS is still active it wont ever start, since it is then VATS are ok.

Where is the ECM from? If it's not a brand new unit, was it flashed with an incompatible OS than what was originally flashed? (This isnt likely as the service # and OS # match.)

With all the truck stuff installed, does it behave the same way as before? Starts, revs to 1500, back down, any pedal kills it? Have you verified the pedal wiring is correct for the truck pedal?

[LastCall]

P0650 is a bit concerning, the ECM is trying to turn on the SES/MIL and either cant or it's on all the time...

Lost comms with the BCM (not surprising) and lost comms with the EBCM (again not surprising).

As Ross said, if VATS is still active it wont ever start, since it is then VATS are ok.

Where is the ECM from? If it's not a brand new unit, was it flashed with an incompatible OS than what was originally flashed? (This isnt likely as the service # and OS # match.)

With all the truck stuff installed, does it behave the same way as before? Starts, revs to 1500, back down, any pedal kills it? Have you verified the pedal wiring is correct for the truck pedal?

Everything was pieced together which I'm sure is making things more complicated. When I pulled the tune out it was an 07 Avalanche 1500 tune. I'm not really sure if someone put that in there or it is the untouched factory calibration. Any way to check that? One thought I had is that the ECM and TCM were purchased with the harness (from PSI), and maybe they patched with HPTuners. Then I patched with EFILive, and maybe that is causing the issues I'm experiencing.

The truck hardware makes everything worse. The TB does not open all the way, and when it does, it closes shut as if going into reduced power mode. Also, the truck 87mm TB does not clear the hood, and the pedal is far from ideal to work with,

So at this point, I'm looking to start over. Have ECM flashed with a Tech 2 to a Corvette tune with an OS of 12617631, the computer service number should support that. It will also ensure the correct TAC module in the ECM is correct for the OS and hardware. Will that eliminate the patch if done by HPTuners? Going to change to the silver blade TB and Corvette pedal. I know the Corvette only came with T43 and 6 speed auto, but it appears that the ECM OS can be used with a truck TCM OS with the T42.

In the process of verifying the TB wiring, but with key on engine off, the silver blade TB appears to operate properly.

[ScarabEpic22]

Unfortunately I dont know of an easy way, if you're familiar with the underlying hex code structure I'm sure you could know pretty quickly (I'm not).

Sorry to hear about the truck tb and pedal, it sounds like the plan to move to all car stuff makes sense now. I think you're right, time to flash the ECM with a known-factory calibration and will wipe out everything on the ECM. I dont know enough about the difference between T43 and T42 comms to know how that will work.

[LastCall]

Good news, the engine runs!! Lol.

I switched to an 08 Silverado tune, applied VATS patch, disabled starter relay, and started on first crank. This was a last ditch effort. I'm on my phone or I would post the OS and tune I used.

This was a last ditch effort, I did log VATS, throttle mismatch PID, and coil and injector status. With the old tune, all looked fine. Coils and injectors were turning on and off with no faults. Nothing appeared out of the ordinary.

Here is the interesting thing... Using a 2010 Camaro pedal, LS silver blade TB, and truck OS. The truck pedal and TB were not cooperating even after changing the two pins in pedal assembly. TB would flicker and go into reduced power mode.

I'm just wondering if the issue all along was VATS related since the only thing that changed was tune. I did the same thing to both tunes, so kind of at a lost there.

[joecar]

Good news, the engine runs!! Lol.

I switched to an 08 Silverado tune, applied VATS patch, disabled starter relay, and started on first crank. This was a last ditch effort. I'm on my phone or I would post the OS and tune I used.

...Good news :cheers:

Can you summarize here which components you have working together.

[LastCall]

Good news :cheers:

Can you summarize here which components you have working together.

I don't want to create too many duplicate posts, but here are the tunes I used.

Specs on set up:

E38 ECM
08 Silverado OS - 12617631

T42 TCM (posted the correct tune 9-26-16@ 6:25 am PDT)
08 Silverad0 Trans OS - 24239927

Silver blade TB
2010 Camaro Pedal (APP)

One big note, the engine will not rev past 5500 rpm in gear. Logs attached.

[joecar]

LastCall,

thanks for posting back :cheers:

[LastCall]

Rev limit had been fixed, it was the rev limit in park/neutral since there was no range switch on the floor shifter.

[joecar]

Thanks.

Glad you got it going :cheers:

[Efefz]

So when you installed the hardware, it affected other truck parts, right? Need to take note of that in case I needed to do that to the engine. Anyway, good to know it's running. Any new progress?