Driveability issues

[Tinbender59]

Hello, I have a 1997 K1500 that I installed a 411 ECU into. everything is going OK, but my fuel millage is pitiful, 12-13 at best. I have been watching my timing, it has been running 28-31 degrees running highway speeds, knock sensor data is almost 0, and what else should I be looking at? I am trying to go about this trouble shooting methodologically, What is the first link in a closed loop system? (??should it be the O2 sensors??). The tail pipe is black (no converters), My first question is how do I figure out if the O2's are within the required range, and operating as advertised? What test can I run to check them?? or is there a way to test them? do we just spend the cash and hope that the new ones are "good". the way I see it the O2 is so important to the fuel delivery system, surely there is a method of proving their operation. But I haven't found anything yet? Which brings me to this, the Fuel injection brain trust, LOL!!

If I were smart enough I could develop a method to test them :wallbash::wallbash:

[ScarabEpic22]

Do you have a wideband? Did you update the tune to include the proper injector data? Have you tuned it after the swap?

If you started with an Express van OS and VE table, it could be different than what your engine needs.

[Tinbender59]

Do you have a wideband? Did you update the tune to include the proper injector data? Have you tuned it after the swap?

If you started with an Express van OS and VE table, it could be different than what your engine needs.

yes on WB but not installed right now, I'll double check injector data, I did update it before I ran a couple of AUTO-VE tune's. but that is not guaranteeing that I've got it all done right??

[Tinbender59]

Another off the wall question, Can the custom OS work directly with a WB O2, as in if I switch say, to COS3, can I install a WB in the factory location and wire it into the factory wiring? will the system recognize this setup???

[ScarabEpic22]

yes on WB but not installed right now, I'll double check injector data, I did update it before I ran a couple of AUTO-VE tune's. but that is not guaranteeing that I've got it all done right??

Gotcha, been there before many times! AutoVE should help a bunch to dial it in, but you will need to keep refining it until your LTFTs are within your desired range (better then +/- 5 is a good place to start). You need to use your WBO2 as part of this process, the factory narrowbands won't give you relevant data once you get into PE mode. You'll see LTFT/STFTs go to 0 when in PE mode, so if you're only using NBO2 sensors, you'll never get any correction data to apply.


Another off the wall question, Can the custom OS work directly with a WB O2, as in if I switch say, to COS3, can I install a WB in the factory location and wire it into the factory wiring? will the system recognize this setup???

You theoretically *can*, however I've had nothing but issues trying to do this on my personal vehicle. I tried and fought it for 2-3mo, gave up and had a bung welded in. Have a new bung welded in, or replace the 2nd O2 sensor (post-cat). Know there will be additional latency with it installed farther downstream from the exhaust ports.

[joecar]

Post tune file and some log files (and your calc_pids.txt file).

[Tinbender59]

ok let me get everything set back up and a couple of logs, anything in particular that you want to see?

[joecar]

LTFTx
STFTx
HO2Sx1
EQIVRATIO
DYNAIR
MAF
MAP
ECT
IAT
TP
SPARKADV
KR
RPM

[Tinbender59]

will do, probably next week before I get back to you, it will be a little bit at a time on my end, no days off for 21 days, lol need the green!!:grin:

[Tinbender59]

joecar, would you recommend switching over to a COS? or wait until I get this figured out??

[Tinbender59]

if I get frogy and jump to a COS, does I use the same tuning procedures, like Calc VE?

[joecar]

If you're not running boost, then stay with with the GM OS, it will be a little simpler...

the COS is the same to tune as the GM OS, except that you have to edit B3647 to be sane, and and you have to watchout for OL STFT... and you have to set the Axxxx parameters to in-range values.

[Tinbender59]

managed to get the Innovate O2 reinstalled today, mounted the V2 on the dash and tidied up the rats nest of cabling. I'm set for the long haul. I am setting up the pids that you asked for right now, and starting a journal. I'll post up data tomorrow.

P.S. I'll stay with the GM OS on this one, hope to have an M112 on the next one!!

[Tinbender59]

well I decided since I had to start over with a new laptop, that I would start over with the tuning process. downloaded a fresh tune from LEXTECH, made the changes to torque command .. ect. then started working the pids, here is the error message I keep getting, I've had the wife proof read it but??

Error code: ERR_CONFIG/92

C:\Users\Dads\Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration\calc_pids.txt(44): Units /(displacement()*{SAE.RPM}*{SAE.MAP.kPa})*{CALC.LTF TBEN}" not found. .

Tried this as well /(5.669*{SAE.RPM}*{SAE.MAP.kPa})*{CALC.LTFTBEN}"

I've attached a copy of my calc_pids.txt someone please help, I about ready to total this laptop out!!!

[Tinbender59]

I am reading the Calc.VET: correcting MAF and calculating VE (in single log) thread and in post 118 by WeathermanShawn I see this,


*CLC-00-300
% 0.0 100.0 .2 "{SAE.MAF.gps}*({GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA.C}+273.15)*3445. 2/(5.669*{SAE.RPM}*{SAE.MAP.kPa})*{CALC.SELBEN}"
VE 0.0 2.468 .4 "{SAE.MAF.gps}*({GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA.C}+273.15)*1 5/({SAE.RPM}*{SAE.MAP.kPa})*{CALC.SELBEN}"

Note: The 'Displacement' issue is being worked on..should all be automatic. Edit->Log File Information->Vehicle Options->Engine (cc); Just to clarify, the change is for Engine Size..not cylinder volume Per Se.

My calc_pids do not look like this, and I DID copy from post 1??

[joecar]

Your calc_pid.txt has a few problems (some CLC's wrap, some PRN's duplicated)...

try this calc_pids.txt (https://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14575&d=1360953394) instead (from post #1 of the Calc.VET thread)... don't copy/paste the contents, but rather copy thr file to the User configuration folder.

[joecar]

Avoid using % for VE... use g*K/kPa... this sidesteps any displacement problems.

[Tinbender59]

You're using an older calc_pid.txt, and some CLC lines wrap...

try this calc_pids.txt (https://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14575&d=1360953394) instead (from post #1 of the Calc.VET thread).

cool,

thank you Sir

[Tinbender59]

should I go ahead and plug in all of the 001 through 003 data into this new file??

[joecar]

cool,

thank you SirI updated my post...



... don't copy/paste the contents, but rather copy the file to the User configuration folder.

[Tinbender59]

ok I copied the file to user configuration folder, then I did copy and past the 001 -003 data, ( should I manually enter it, or am I doing this whole thing wrong??) and I get the same error when I open either scan or tune tools

[joecar]

No, don't copy/past CLC's 001-3, these are buggy duplicates of what is already there.

[Tinbender59]

AH HA , that explains that

[joecar]

*CLC-00=00
% -25.0 25.0 .2 "({SAE.LONGFT1}+{SAE.LONGFT2})/2"

*CLC-00-002
factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "({SAE.LONGFT1}+{SAE.LONGFT2})/200+1"

*CLC-00=003
% 0.0 100.0 .2 "{SAE.MAF.gps}*({GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA.C}+273.15)*3445.2
/(displacement()*{SAE.RPM}*{SAE.MAP.kPa})*{CALC.LTF TBEN}"
VE 0.0 3.0 .4 "{SAE.MAF.gps}*({GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA.C}+273.15)*15
/({SAE.RPM}*{SAE.MAP.kPa})*{CALC.LTFTBEN}"

. . .

These have various syntax errors, can you spot them, I see at least 4...?

And they duplicate stuff that is already in the unedited calc_pids.txt file.

And use g*K/kPa rather than %.

[Tinbender59]

that works so I'll see what happens tonight on the way home, 50 miles 1 way, all but 4 miles on 4 lane, I should be able to get some good data

[Tinbender59]

Like this??

*CLC-00-001
g*K/kPa -25.0 25.0 .2 "({SAE.LONGFT1}+{SAE.LONGFT2})/2"



well It didn't like that

[Tinbender59]

I don't know about this stuff?? now I can't set up my CALC.VE_TABLE??

[Tinbender59]

*CLC-00=00
% -25.0 25.0 .2 "({SAE.LONGFT1}+{SAE.LONGFT2})/2"

*CLC-00-002
factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "({SAE.LONGFT1}+{SAE.LONGFT2})/200+1"

*CLC-00=003
% 0.0 100.0 .2 "{SAE.MAF.gps}*({GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA.C}+273.15)*3445.2
/(displacement()*{SAE.RPM}*{SAE.MAP.kPa})*{CALC.LTF TBEN}"
VE 0.0 3.0 .4 "{SAE.MAF.gps}*({GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA.C}+273.15)*15
/({SAE.RPM}*{SAE.MAP.kPa})*{CALC.LTFTBEN}"

. . .

These have various syntax errors, can you spot them, I see at least 4...?

And they duplicate stuff that is already in the unedited calc_pids.txt file.

And use g*K/kPa rather than %.

I'm not a programmer, I couldn't tell you unless it was in red. lol

But on a happier note, I did find a cheat sheet buried in EFILive.com, was able to fix CLC-00-003, I now have a CALC.VE_TABLE. I believe that Ill be ready to log tonight.

[joecar]

Your CALC.VE_TABLE is the same (actually it's worse) as CALC.VET.

[Tinbender59]

Your CALC.VE_TABLE is the same (actually it's worse) as CALC.VET.

NOW I'm really lost??
I followed the CALC.VE tuning Tutorial to the letter??
Now you are telling me I'm wrong??
Page 5 in this document says to create a CALC.VE_Table???

is this document wrong??

What am I supposed to do now???

[joecar]

Calc.VE tutorial has been replaced with Calc.VET (this is what post #1 of the Calc.VET thread is).

Your calc_pids.txt file brings in CLC-00-001,2,3 from the old into the new... compare these with CLC-00-120 and 300 (the LTFT average % is not needed).


See post #1 here: Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-(in-single-log) (https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-(in-single-log))

[Tinbender59]

Thank You Joe, that would explain the craziness that has been plaguing me through out this whole process. I'll give it a spin, and get back to you

[joecar]

No worries :)

[Tinbender59]

JOE: I'm trying to figure out how th set up the CALC,VET map, is it the same as the Calc.ve_table??

[joecar]

Yes, same way...

do this:
- in tunetool goto B0101 VE table, click in blank tile in upper left (where axes intersect), go rightclick->Copy-with-Labels.
- go directly to scantool, goto Maps, edit Map properties, on each of Row and Col tabs click Paste-Labels (don't do anything else in between).
- on each of Row and Col tabs, select pids to match the axes of B0101 (i.e. MAP and RPM).
- on Data tab, select the pid CALC.VET.
- on the Data tab, set Precision to 3 or 4 (decimal digits).
- on each of Data, Row and Col tabs checkmark Show Units.
- click Ok to save Map properties.


I'll edit the Calc.VET thread to include this (there was a link to a video tutorial on maps, but it was on holdencrazy.com which is now gone).

[Tinbender59]

as far as I can tell it worked? cant get the add photo to work??

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss227/lloydmace59/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161005_205153266_zpstgp2clir.jpg~original (http://s578.photobucket.com/user/lloydmace59/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161005_205153266_zpstgp2clir.jpg.html)

[Tinbender59]

ok second looked almost identical to the one posted, close enough I'm leaving it alone. the next question, I have seen where the following notes are annotated with Permanent or Temporary (i think it was temporary) could someone help me out here, as to what i need to put back??

III. CALC.VET Tuning Tips

1. B0701: Disable Catalytic Converter Protection
Insures accurate stoich and PE mode/WOT Fueling

2. B0120: Change RPM Threshold for Airflow Calculation from 4000 to 400
Eliminates any Airflow Correction/Contribution from the VE Table
(if your transient filter is sufficiently wide, it will filter out VE contribution)
I'm goint to guess this needs to be changed back

3. B3308: Disable DFCO: Change B3308 (M6) to 140C Change B3313 to 140C
Accurate fueling computations
????

4. B4105: O2 Switch-points to 450 Millivolts
Smoother MAF & VE Table

5. B3618: PE Modifier Based on Rpm: EQR 1.16
Safe adequate Fueling regardless of Fuel Type
I don't have a clue here??

6. B3616: PE Enable: make sure PE enables as load becomes significant
(e.g. below 60% TP below 3200 rpm, 35% TP above 3200 rpm).
??? leave as is ???

7. B3608 and B3609: PE Delay: set these to zeros.
??? again, leave as is ???

[Tinbender59]

oops

[Tinbender59]

Ha I found it Joecar's note to boot



1. B0701: Disable Catalytic Converter Protection
Insures accurate stoich and PE mode/WOT Fueling
During tuning only

2. B0120: Change RPM Threshold for Airflow Calculation from 4000 to 400
Eliminates any Airflow Correction from the VE Table
During tuning only

3. B3308: Disable DFCO: Change B3308 (M6) to 140C Change B3313 to 140C
Accurate fueling computations
During tuning only

4. B4105: O2 Switch-points to 450 Millivolts
Smoother MAF & VE Table
Permanent

5. B3618: PE Modifier Based on Rpm (EQ): 1.16
Safe adequate Fueling regardless of Fuel Type
Permanent

6. B3616: PE Enable: make sure PE enables as load becomes significant
(e.g. below 60% TP below 3200 rpm, 35% TP above 3200 rpm).
Permanent

7. B3608 and B3609: PE Delay: set these to zeros.
Permanent

[joecar]

Also do this:
- on the Data tab, set Precision to 3 or 4 (decimal digits).



as far as I can tell it worked? cant get the add photo to work??

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss227/lloydmace59/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161005_205153266_zpstgp2clir.jpg~original (http://s578.photobucket.com/user/lloydmace59/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161005_205153266_zpstgp2clir.jpg.html)

[joecar]

...

5. B3618: PE Modifier Based on Rpm (EQ): 1.16
Safe adequate Fueling regardless of Fuel Type
Permanent

...I would set this to something in between 1.165 to 1.175.

[joecar]

...

1. B0701: Disable Catalytic Converter Protection
Insures accurate stoich and PE mode/WOT Fueling
During tuning only

...If you're not running cats, then leave this disabled.

[joecar]

Also, during tuning, make sure B4205 is disabled.