LML wishlist

[S Phinney]

I understand that need as well. One pet peeve I have is finishing what I start. Many feel some controllers are incomplete. To facilitate proper tuning changes there really is a need some other tables. In particular, LML Ecm and Tcm are two of those controllers. They are becoming very popular among Duramax enthusiasts. There is real promise with this model. Some things you just have to try and tune around what you can't tune. I'm not saying this to offend any of you guys. It's just a fact. I don't believe that I've read or heard anywhere of a commitment to address those concerns in any time frames.


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[GMPX]

I don't believe that I've read or heard anywhere of a commitment to address those concerns in any time frames.
What concerns specifically?
And let me just add that my workload is very much spoken for to see out 2016, but your feedback below will help us with time scheduling (and some therapy sessions!)

The other thing to keep in mind, if you've never done any mapping before it is not as simple as you might think. When looking for maps in files there is no big label GM stuck in there saying "Here is a Rail Pressure table", to figure out how something works and interacts with other functions of the ECM can be simple sometimes, other things can be an endless maze.

[rcr1978]

Here is my wishlist :sleigh:

1.Timing correction tables specifically temperature related ones
2.More airflow tables mostly pertaining to boost and vain position not sure exactly what but something's missing there.
3.Speed limiting functions at least for 2015+ it holds at 98mph no what I monkey with, I believe everything is functional for 14 back not 100% on that but the ones I messed with work.
4. Trans line pressure, I'm sure your tired of hearing about this one.

I'm sure I will think of some more :grin:

Thanks Guys!

[rcr1978]

5. Fuel rail pressure relief valve table it's electronically controlled so there must be some sort of table for commanded opening/closing I think think may help get a little more fuel up high that stupid thing is always open I never see it close up even when desired/actual are way far off.

[S Phinney]

What concerns specifically?
And let me just add that my workload is very much spoken for to see out 2016, but your feedback below will help us with time scheduling (and some therapy sessions!)

The other thing to keep in mind, if you've never done any mapping before it is not as simple as you might think. When looking for maps in files there is no big label GM stuck in there saying "Here is a Rail Pressure table", to figure out how something works and interacts with other functions of the ECM can be simple sometimes, other things can be an endless maze.

Hey I do appreciate your efforts. I haven't done mapping before. I will make a list as well. Thank you very much.


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[rcr1978]

I looked into the mapping thing, nothing big just winols and it didn't take long to say nope not for me :throw: I have no clue what you guys really go through but that was enough for me to move on and wait for something to happen.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

5. Fuel rail pressure relief valve table it's electronically controlled so there must be some sort of table for commanded opening/closing I think think may help get a little more fuel up high that stupid thing is always open I never see it close up even when desired/actual are way far off.

I got it mapped in hex, I don't use it for any tuning, but it is there.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

What concerns specifically?
And let me just add that my workload is very much spoken for to see out 2016, but your feedback below will help us with time scheduling (and some therapy sessions!)

The other thing to keep in mind, if you've never done any mapping before it is not as simple as you might think. When looking for maps in files there is no big label GM stuck in there saying "Here is a Rail Pressure table", to figure out how something works and interacts with other functions of the ECM can be simple sometimes, other things can be an endless maze.

Lol......if there was a treasure map we all could find the gold.

I just need Line Pressure for LML, if I got that I would be happy.

And the rail pressure max table has another limiter, desired in logs never goes above 29008, even if I command 31k.

That I still have not found yet, but there is another limiter of some kind.

[rcr1978]

I got it mapped in hex, I don't use it for any tuning, but it is there.

Did you ever try to see if it would fuel a little harder closing it up?

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Did you ever try to see if it would fuel a little harder closing it up?

NO, the cp4 is either going to make pressure or not, I had better luck with the other changes I make.

[rcr1978]

The two tables we have help but just looking for a little more, the relief valve is a controlled leak I want no leaks when the rail pressure drops. Who knows it could get ugly with that thing closed on a throttle chop if it doesn't respond fast enough.

[GMPX]

I got it mapped in hex, I don't use it for any tuning, but it is there.
So Tony, if you are mapping your own stuff in OLS then why are you posting in the EFI wishlist thread :pokey:

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

So Tony, if you are mapping your own stuff in OLS then why are you posting in the EFI wishlist thread :pokey:

Because like you I cannot find LML Trans Line Pressure tables.......don't get butt hurt Ross, I'll keep looking myself, I already mapped a bunch of stuff that I needed, it takes me a lot longer because I suck at it, but I keep looking, even if I don't know exactly what I find does, I did find lots of maps and other things in the code, just have NO idea what it does exactly.

[GMPX]

don't get butt hurt Ross,
I wasn't 'butt hurt' Tony, I was just giving a little back to the person that likes to constantly criticise whilst not being able to get the job done himself.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

I wasn't 'butt hurt' Tony, I was just giving a little back to the person that likes to constantly criticise whilst not being able to get the job done himself.

It's not a criticism, it's again an observation, I am not the only one who would like more tables, I can go over to the gas forum here and find threads that have tuners asking why does HPT have this table and EFI does not and they have to use both.

Gas tuners that state it's a year and they still are waiting for something.

I may suck at it but at least I keep trying, that says something, it's been almost a year, still no LML trans pressure, but 4th gen cummins has the 68rfe trans mapped out ??

LML SOTF, daily calls on those, when is EFI going to offer that, I tell them you probably will not see it.

So it's not me complaining, I just respond as I need to, that is why if you are not careful you will see your net sales suffer quicker than you think.

You don't have to tell me that it's hard to find stuff, it is, but telling everyone who asks its not a controller you will revisit, or it's not easy to find, or its too old, or nobody but one or two people want it just gets old.

Records went away, replaced by 8 track, cassette replaced them, cd's, now digital downloads.

Everything either stays ahead of the market or adapts to it. You can choose to keep not going back to controllers that need updates at your own peril, it's after all your company.

But LML SOTF is already a big deal and it's going to be a huge thing, it's too bad that someone who is so talented is being so shortsighted IMHO.

I look at my peers and competition, one company is quite dominant, why, because he is offering things that customers want, things nobody else can offer, EFI used to be that company that offered what the tuners and public wants , and for the most part you still offer a lot, but it's like you get to 90% and then move on, once tuners start giving feedback and requests they seem to fall on deaf ears.

I have 100% supported EFI since 2005, but like all businesses I have to adapt, you should take this not as a stab, not as a criticism, but as someone who would like to see a bright future still with EFI live, but if other tuning companies release things that you don't and we need , well we all follow the market, we will have to go where we can make our money.

So if it's HPT that has tables you wont add we have to purchase that product as well, if it's EZ LYNK that offers LML SOTF and maybe line pressure tuning then that is where we have to go.

I am sure the bulk of the last few years license and autocal sales are driven by LML AND 4TH GEN, I am quite sure diesel is huge for your bottom line.

L5P will also be big, will you capture that market by giving us what the public wants or let someone else capture it .

Hope you enjoy your weekend, I have nothing more to add, you can either take it with a grain of salt or consider what I am saying as not a warning but some advice that I am willing to say what most people think but won't say.

[S Phinney]

Well said Tony. There are needs that should be met or attempted to be met.


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[GMPX]

It's not a criticism, it's again an observation, I am not the only one who would like more tables, I can go over to the gas forum here and find threads that have tuners asking why does HPT have this table and EFI does not and they have to use both.
It works both ways Tony, I know some of their Diesel and gas stuff has errors (they haven't fixed) which means desired results cannot be achieved so people use EFILive instead.
None of the tuning products on the market are officially endorsed or backed by GM, Dodge etc so there is always going to be errors or misunderstandings of functions / tables. I've seen plenty of tuning software for European cars and that is just a whole new level of 'you are on your own', but you too have all those tools, you know what they are like.


I may suck at it but at least I keep trying, that says something, it's been almost a year, still no LML trans pressure, but 4th gen cummins has the 68rfe trans mapped out ??
So we can't figure out A50 line pressure.....who do I call GM and ask for help? Any suggestions? Maybe you don't care about 68RFE getting some love but many did, we can't please everyone all the time. The 68RFE was something that could be done, so it was.


LML SOTF, daily calls on those, when is EFI going to offer that, I tell them you probably will not see it.
You know how it works right? You know it is not true DSP type thing? But if you are happy to accept a diet sugar free alternative as the same thing then so be it. I find that a little frustrating that it is viewed the same as what we've done in the past. Kind of like saying the $15 Ebay Intake Temp sensor fixed to 32degF so the car runs richer is as good as a custom tune. Sure they both get 'a' result but which one is better?


So it's not me complaining, I just respond as I need to, that is why if you are not careful you will see your net sales suffer quicker than you think.
Well that depends, we don't announce what we are working on any more until it is close to being ready. We haven't been sipping Pina Colada's on a beach for the last year.


But LML SOTF is already a big deal and it's going to be a huge thing, it's too bad that someone who is so talented is being so shortsighted IMHO.
Well can we please at least acknowledge that the traditional EFILive way of creating a DSP OS cannot be done on the LML? What EZ is doing is not a true DSP OS and for EFILive to all of a sudden release a 'DSP OS' that fudges a sensor to get the job done would be a pretty underhanded thing to do to EZ. Some of our competitors might be dirty players but we aren't, I am not about to copy (steal) their idea and call it our own (which has been done TO us before).


I look at my peers and competition, one company is quite dominant, why, because he is offering things that customers want, things nobody else can offer, EFI used to be that company that offered what the tuners and public wants , and for the most part you still offer a lot, but it's like you get to 90% and then move on, once tuners start giving feedback and requests they seem to fall on deaf ears.
We were put in a very difficult position with emissions related items, we had no choice but to walk away from offering them, NO CHOICE! Those that kept on that path have done so at their own peril.
What we then found was there was so much trading and selling of tunes that feedback was almost non existent, we closed the beta group because it was a ghost town, everyone just ended up doing their own things beyond that 90% you mentioned.


I have 100% supported EFI since 2005, but like all businesses I have to adapt, you should take this not as a stab, not as a criticism, but as someone who would like to see a bright future still with EFI live, but if other tuning companies release things that you don't and we need , well we all follow the market, we will have to go where we can make our money.
I agree and understand, if Snap-On don't make a 11.5mm spanner but someone else does, then you buy theirs.


I am sure the bulk of the last few years license and autocal sales are driven by LML AND 4TH GEN, I am quite sure diesel is huge for your bottom line.
We can't measure that exactly with licenses because they are not controller specific, but Autocal sales probably many would be for LML and 2010+ Cummins.
The whole CSP for Cummins is very time consuming to develop and maintain, DSP for the E98 was time consuming too, however we did it and we are still the only ones that do, but sadly that is all dismissed because they might not be controllers you deal with daily and we don't have line pressure tables on the A50 therefore it appears like nothing is going on here. I think there has been 4 or so new gas controllers supported in the last year, some of them our competitors do not support at all yet so we have a lot of gas customers that are very happy they are ahead of the game.
You may accuse us (me) of being short sighted, but I would say back to you that your view on how EFILive operates is very self centred, if updates and additions don't help you directly then we have neglected all our customers, that in reality isn't the case.


L5P will also be big, will you capture that market by giving us what the public wants or let someone else capture it .
L5P will not happen overnight, GM don't want us in there and have taken unprecedented steps to keep tuners out.


Hope you enjoy your weekend, I have nothing more to add, you can either take it with a grain of salt or consider what I am saying as not a warning but some advice that I am willing to say what most people think but won't say.
We are big boys, we can take feedback even if it is criticism, never be afraid to tell it like it is.

[1906]

Ross, I believe EZ-LYNK offers a true switching solution for the LML, not sensor trickery. It's just a tune and a switch.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Ross,

Take a look at the Market.......your market is being eroded, its not something that I made up to come in here and throw jabs, I know its unfortunate, but it is going to get worse and not better.

You either stay ahead of the market or at least keep up best you can, Everyone gets it, you and Paul are a 2 man show, you do mapping he does the GUI, its a lot for 2 guys, but there are things that don't work on the mapping side on some controllers still, when they are brought to your attention you dismiss the person or simply fob them off, for lack of a better solution it seems like its "OH WELL", sorry about that, but I am not going back in there to fix what does not work.

Everyone has been patiently waiting for LML Pressure to be looked at again, nobody to my knowledge has been in here daily or weekly busting anyone about it, you cannot find it, that is fine, I can't either, in fact nobody can except Kory, so he is the only one who can use software to raise and or adjust line pressure, good for him, he has a niche..........that is fine, it is what it is, but you could have just announced that it is not happening anytime in the foreseeable future, then at least we would know and can try to do something else about getting it done.

As far as LML SOFT, again, whatever it is, its making sales, that is a fact, and its a tough pill to swallow I am sure, but its what the customer wants and has wanted and its out to market now, so I either stay loyal to EFI and ignore tons of potential sales or use a competitors platform, again, it still is nothing personal with you, I sit in my office 12 hours a day and 8 of those I take call after call and email after email of when is EFI going to offer LML SOFT, and I am sure others do as well.

I really hoped that more support for missing tables would have eventually been completed, I understand the work load you have and Paul does, and development of new controllers takes lots and lots of time, but its disappointing that after a year of waiting its not going to happen on a few of these wanted items.

My intention was not to piss you off, but it seems I have.

[GMPX]

Ross, I believe EZ-LYNK offers a true switching solution for the LML, not sensor trickery. It's just a tune and a switch.
The instructions say 'unplug the Fuel Temp sensor, fit the switch in its place', the DSP switches are nothing more than resistors.
I guess they managed to manipulate different modes in the ECM based on fuel temp, just speculation but to me that makes logical sense.


Ross,

Take a look at the Market.......your market is being eroded
How do you know as an overall or do you mean just LML? Just because there is more options for LML doesn't mean everything has fallen apart around us, we do more than LML!.

I think we should just quit this discussion Tony, you said you've already invested in EZ so you can offer LML switchable tuning, we aren't going to do it, never said we could, never said we would. When we put out CSP and EDA for Cummins none of the other companies doing Cummins tuning tried to match that, sometimes you just have to pick your battles I suppose.
So what more can I say, hopefully EZ LML works out for you.

[S Phinney]

Ross one if the most important points I believe Tony is trying to make as well as what I was trying to make is that parts of your existing support doesn't go far enough. I think we both, along with many other people just want to know are you going revisit the noted issues? If not it allows us to give direct answers to customers. That will most likely cost us business if somewhere else they can get more if what they want. I think that for the most part the EFI Live family is still loyal and would like to keep it that way. Each previous year Duramax had sufficient parameters. The LML lacks enough that it gets noticed by the guys tuning them. Some of use are just speaking up and hoping that you will take notice and look into it deeper. It probably dies rub some of us a little more than others since EFI Live was a GM specific alternative in the beginning and some feel that it's suffering from the Cummings rave right now. I just trying myself to relate feelings. I'm not trying to make any jabs toward any one here. If the LP5 won't be able to be tuned then the LML may be the last great GM diesel platform and is becoming more popular because of advances in tuning capabilities. That's why some feel that it deserves everything that it can get out if your software.



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[Snipesy]

Who is EZ Lynk anyway...

It's a company based in a tax haven, with no names other than 'EZ Lynk', whose address goes to a Hyundai dealership... Which is probably false. Hmmmmmmmm....


edit: So apparently said dealership does 'own' EZ Lynk. I just can't quite wrap my head around it though... What makes them so special? Why now? Flashing a vehicle isn't exactly something a bunch of techs at a dealership can figure out.

[1906]

Who is EZ Lynk anyway...

It's a company based in a tax haven, with no names other than 'EZ Lynk', whose address goes to a Hyundai dealership... Which is probably false. Hmmmmmmmm....


edit: So apparently said dealership does 'own' EZ Lynk. I just can't quite wrap my head around it though... What makes them so special? Why now? Flashing a vehicle isn't exactly something a bunch of techs at a dealership can figure out.

Best I can gather - a restructured H&S:
https://www.unitedstatescourts.org/federal/utd/102482/
(click on green folder within)

[MobileProg]

Bad bad boys. The last pages of the thing with pictures of the bootloader with matching hex is laughable.

2047320474

[MobileProg]

Bentley hugie, his brother, Thomas wood etc.

Others were also involved to some degree. They are named in the filings, and also were calling around getting people to become dealers for months. Must have some financial involvement.

Read the docs. There are also ties to a company in Canada which is also a front for someone. its whoever came up with their LML sensor shenanigans.

[Road]

The way I see it EFI Live is still selling just as many license and Autocal etc. They give us the tools to do what we need just have to provide your own files to do it. Pretty much going to be that way with any software provider in the future. Way I see it EZ was setup by experienced tuner and engineering to protect them from USA regulation. As Ross stated you don't need EZ to offer switchable tuning you can do it the same way they are doing it with Efi. I have too been receiving request to offer it and have stepped up my game and can do it without EZ. You can check out my progress on it at my Facebook page. As far as Allison line pressure I am not buying in on all the hype. I personally think line pressure is controlled in many different ways on the Allison. And would be more of a convenient kinda like airflow vs load on the new generation gas type ecm's

[Snipesy]

Hmm... So H&S is back, and gets sued immediately. *slow clap* didn't event need the EPA for that.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

The instructions say 'unplug the Fuel Temp sensor, fit the switch in its place', the DSP switches are nothing more than resistors.
I guess they managed to manipulate different modes in the ECM based on fuel temp, just speculation but to me that makes logical sense.


How do you know as an overall or do you mean just LML? Just because there is more options for LML doesn't mean everything has fallen apart around us, we do more than LML!.

I think we should just quit this discussion Tony, you said you've already invested in EZ so you can offer LML switchable tuning, we aren't going to do it, never said we could, never said we would. When we put out CSP and EDA for Cummins none of the other companies doing Cummins tuning tried to match that, sometimes you just have to pick your battles I suppose.
So what more can I say, hopefully EZ LML works out for you.

None of this is really about SOTF, it was about the lack of tables still in LML ECM and TCM and when it may be revisited, the EZ-Lynk SOTF is just the newest thing driving sales away from EFI.

Much to my dismay and yours I am sure is that the market is being eroded for EFI-Live sales, yours, mine and anyone else who has supported EFI-Live since day 1 on the diesel side.

I know you probably don't hold me in high esteem, I am a big boy, I have been around and can surely hold my own, and again, you took it way too personal, I wanted answers to valid questions, you took it as a stab and jab, you threw a shot, I responded, its over, it again was never a personal issue, just a business asking another business where are we going, can we get any further ??

And yes, many of us will be forced to revisit these issues as we need to, we are after all adults, I just wish you could see thru to the end on some of these controllers when tuners ask you to go back and revisit them, you are far better at this than anyone currently doing the reverse mapping, so why not set aside a couple days and address some things ??

I suck at it, and even me sucking at it was able to get some progress and find a few things, and you can probably work at 1/10th your ability and still be 10 times better than I am.

So reconsider some of these requests for some of the fixes that we need on some of these controllers.

Thanks

[Snipesy]

On another note, if you guys want post injection timing and quantity. As well as pilot timing.

I won't make the cax cause that's too much work, but I can certainly tell you what to look for.

[Road]

A feature I would like added is when making changes to a table is to be able to apply those changes to all the tables in that group of tables. I find that feature very useful in the UDC Pro software.

[GMPX]

Bad bad boys. The last pages of the thing with pictures of the bootloader with matching hex is laughable.
I didn't want to read through the legal docs in their entirety (because they are boring legal docs), but as you said every hex byte shown matches, coincidence? Removing the BullyDog message from the .bin as they pointed out, I'm shocked if what that appears to indicate is true. Certainly can't see either party letting it go.


The way I see it EFI Live is still selling just as many license and Autocal etc. They give us the tools to do what we need just have to provide your own files to do it.
Well yes and no, we do need to be concious not all of our users can add their own mapping via .cax. But the reason that exists (and to some extent takes the pressure off us) is because some can and it allows them to do whatever they like as though they were using something like WinOLS.


As far as Allison line pressure I am not buying in on all the hype. I personally think line pressure is controlled in many different ways on the Allison.
Yeah we have not found a traditional pressure table, that is the issue.


So reconsider some of these requests for some of the fixes that we need on some of these controllers.
But your main point has been because of switchable tuning not in EFILive as to why LML sales are dropping (or will drop), is that now watered down to can we have some additional tables? I am reluctant to say yes because I have no idea when I could add them in, but I don't want to say no either.


On another note, if you guys want post injection timing and quantity. As well as pilot timing.

I won't make the cax cause that's too much work, but I can certainly tell you what to look for.
You're a good man Snipesy, hats off to you and your knowledge of the EDC17 and still willing to help people. :good:


A feature I would like added is when making changes to a table is to be able to apply those changes to all the tables in that group of tables. I find that feature very useful in the UDC Pro software.
I guess that is more a software enhancement rather than an ECM specific enhancement.

Cheers,
Ross

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

No Ross,

My point was that the competing software if they prevail, and that is still unknown what the outcome is going to be, is smart, meaning it automates many things, the biggest problem is making global changes, as ROAD stated, now a simple script can run on a single file with EFI but it has to be run on all tunes for all OS and considering that alone it's a huge time saver for tuners to have smart software that makes global changes.

Its not about my LML sales, it's about sales growth in general, you want to grow EFI LIVE, so you add controllers, you add features, but it just can not stop there, when BETA ran the way it used to you got the feedback you needed, from experienced tuners, but you put the cart before the horse and rolled out flashing before you released mapping, on LML and 4TH GEN, so the data you used to get in beta was now just a rush to get flashing and controller locking out to sell units, or at least that is how it looked to many.

Its kind of pointless now, it is all water under the bridge, but the point of this is once you move on, you move on, and you don't seem like you would like to go back and revisit anything.

It is not just on LML either, there is stuff in AL5 AND LB7 that still is not correct, and LLY has bugs as well, but it will never get addressed, we just all work around it, those of us that know the workarounds.

That is why many of us trade info, favors, whatever, because the software just does not give us all we need, so we have to get it done another way, but the stuff that is not taboo, that could be improved in or revisited is not being gone back to.

The LML pressure is a modulated value, it must reference some kind of upshift and or downshift table jump, as I was told by several builders it spikes pressure before, during, and after the shift, it also supposedly spikes at wot for a period of time regardless, that is what I have been told.

So maybe the thing you are trying to find is not what you think it is traditionally, maybe it's a scaled voltage table referenced to load or tps or shift timing, I don't know, it could be referenced to a tq value.

Point is if you disable the solenoid it runs the pressure maxxed out, so the tcm controls it.

It lowers pressure in lockup IIRC as well, so those are all clues to where or how it might be found in the code.

I know that the T87 controlled 15.5 and 16 trucks benefit from the added pressure, converters shudder or slip without it on quite a lot of these,so it does help, just like the slip inhibit on AL5 and A40 and A50, put a hurting on lockup boxes sales because you found or someone found these tables and added them.

You have the ability to improve the product and you do when you add tables and features, but if you are asked at all to go back and revisit some missing tables or fix some stuff it's not happened on a bunch of these unfortunately.

Some of us have been here since 2005 and have been 100% loyal and supportive, but many are reluctant to state certain things, at almost 48 years old, I'm not worried about saying things that need to be said, but again, none of this is personal with me towards you, which I hope you finally understand.

:wavetowel2:

[cindy@efilive]

Ross won't be revisiting our LML support. With the development road map we have laid out, he simply doesn't have the time in the foreseeable future.

We've discussed it internally and believe we do have the resources to revisit LML support pending some further analysis. Once our gas developer has finished with 2017 GM Gas support (scheduled for completion early in the new year) he may be in a position to review LML. He is quite familiar with the EDC17 controller, so from a capability perspective he would be a good fit.

I'll make a start on working out what we would need to do to make this happen after PRI, and most probably Christmas and provide an update early in the new year regarding the feasibility.

The mass update/scripting function was already documented on the development list for V8 software; it's simply not feasible to redevelop current systems and processes to do this.

Cheers
Cindy

[S Phinney]

So you are saying that what we have to date is it and you think you can do something on the 2017 Duramax? Your post sounds a little confusing.


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[cindy@efilive]

So you are saying that what we have to date is it and you think you can do something on the 2017 Duramax? Your post sounds a little confusing.


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Our gas developer will not develop new vehicle support for Diesel, unless it's simply a matter of mapping a new operating system for an existing supported controller. His role would be to undertake expanding support for existing supported vehicles.

Cheers
Cindy

[S Phinney]

So Ross is not going to but you have another guy that when he gets time will take a look into it?


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[cindy@efilive]

So Ross is not going to but you have another guy that when he gets time will take a look into it?


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I expect that answer will be yes, but would need to complete our development review to scope what would be required first. While he has the skill, there is a bunch of other items that need to line up too - think along the lines of development tools, development formatting differences, permissions and access etc...

Cheers
Cindy

[GMPX]

So Ross is not going to but you have another guy that when he gets time will take a look into it?
Correct, currently he handles majority of the new gas controllers. As most of the 2017 models are done there will be some spare time early in the new year. He's already up to speed on EDC17 as Cindy said so I'll hand it all over to him.

As for the 2017 Duramax (L5P), we don't know, they aren't delivered yet but the ECM is NOT a Bosch and they cannot be ordered as spares.

[rcr1978]

Awesome thanks guys :jump:

[minytrker]

Be nice to see some gas support again but its a little late for most of gas tuners, we have all had to switch to hpt for anything gas newer than E38 and even on some E38 stuff because EFI doesnt have the tables. Now hpt does dodge, ford, mercedes, and gm making it seem efi will never catch back up in the gas world. I really like efi and the V2 better but I have to use hpt now alot out of necessity. How will the licensing work on the 2017 gas ecm's? Please dont think I am bashing efi because I am not, I use efi everyday and like it alot. Over time unfortunately it appears their business model and mine drifter apart some and I had to expand my tuning tools.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Ross won't be revisiting our LML support. With the development road map we have laid out, he simply doesn't have the time in the foreseeable future.

We've discussed it internally and believe we do have the resources to revisit LML support pending some further analysis. Once our gas developer has finished with 2017 GM Gas support (scheduled for completion early in the new year) he may be in a position to review LML. He is quite familiar with the EDC17 controller, so from a capability perspective he would be a good fit.

I'll make a start on working out what we would need to do to make this happen after PRI, and most probably Christmas and provide an update early in the new year regarding the feasibility.

The mass update/scripting function was already documented on the development list for V8 software; it's simply not feasible to redevelop current systems and processes to do this.

Cheers
Cindy

Thank You for updating us.

It is much appreciated.

[cindy@efilive]

Be nice to see some gas support again but its a little late for most of gas tuners, we have all had to switch to hpt for anything gas newer than E38 and even on some E38 stuff because EFI doesnt have the tables. Now hpt does dodge, ford, mercedes, and gm making it seem efi will never catch back up in the gas world. I really like efi and the V2 better but I have to use hpt now alot out of necessity. How will the licensing work on the 2017 gas ecm's? Please dont think I am bashing efi because I am not, I use efi everyday and like it alot. Over time unfortunately it appears their business model and mine drifter apart some and I had to expand my tuning tools.

How are you going tuning E80, E82 and E84 with HPT?

Your right we probably won't catch up on historical controllers even if the parameters match completely. Fwiw, there has been huge development undertaken with GM Gas and GM gas transmission support in the last 12 months, there are no outstanding development requests.

All 2017 supported vehicles are on the website, our licensing scheme remains unchanged for them.

Cheers
Cindy


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[rcr1978]

How are you going tuning E80, E82 and E84 with HPT?

Your right we probably won't catch up on historical controllers even if the parameters match completely. Fwiw, there has been huge development undertaken with GM Gas and GM gas transmission support in the last 12 months, there are no outstanding development requests.

All 2017 supported vehicles are on the website, our licensing scheme remains unchanged for them.

Cheers
Cindy


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

A little of topic but pertains to your post, is there any plans to support the 2017 crossover line E82? Some GMC ones got the good LGX motor (same as camaro and Cadillac) I know they Would be a low priority due to the more performance orientated vehicles.

[GMPX]

Be nice to see some gas support again but its a little late for most of gas tuners, we have all had to switch to hpt for anything gas newer than E38 and even on some E38 stuff because EFI doesnt have the tables. Now hpt does dodge, ford, mercedes, and gm making it seem efi will never catch back up in the gas world.
Ok well first up we never said we would do FORD, Dodge or Mercedes so please don't feel like we've let you down there and nor do we feel we need to "catch up" and add support for those platforms to stay relevant.
If you want to expand your range of tuning vehicles perhaps you need to look in to some of the European tuning software that support countless vehicles types (support is bad and often you are on your own with mapping unless you have deep pockets, but it's an option). Did you know there is a tuning tool for Dodge / Chrysler gas cars that is very, very cheap (out of Russia (http://bitbox.ru/en/catalog/10)), another reason why we wouldn't bother trying to break in to that market.....and this is from someone who owns a HEMI vehicle that I cannot tune. ;)
I feel the "we all had to switch" statement is perhaps an exaggeration, but I am not about to start listing customers who prefer to use our software for E80, E82, E84, E92 etc even though they own both products to prove that it isn't a one way street as you imagine. So yes it is true, rather than become just another player in the already crowded markets (FORD gas for example) we did take some risks and worked on other platforms that had not been done before by software companies which has been perceived as us abandoning our LS1 tuner roots.


How will the licensing work on the 2017 gas ecm's?
In what sense do you mean? It is still the usual $125 per vehicle, if it is an ECM that has GM's heightened security (very likely) then you will need an Auth-Code on top of that ($50): Note, this is a manually processed code which is why there is a fee, but this has been detailed in one of our newsletters and in various software updates. So for a 2017 Vette as an example you are up for $175 USD (assuming no discounts applied). I heard it was closer to $300 to tune a 2017 GM gas vehicle with HPT but I might be wrong there, you could probably confirm that if you are using their software.


Over time unfortunately it appears their business model and mine drifter apart some and I had to expand my tuning tools.
Ok, I don't view the tuning industry like consumer electronics products, you know the type of person who will only buy Apple everything no matter what other companies might offer on their products. As a tuner I don't think you can afford to lock yourself in to one product, I know many tuners that have 5 or more different tuning packages to cover everything they want to the level they need. EFILive never set out to conquer and support every manufacturer and model out there, sure we took a different direction as far back as 2007/8 when we released LB7 Duramax support. But since then we have not abandoned GM gas as you might think and in many cases new GM gas ECM types have been released much earlier than HPT had support for them which personally I am proud of considering we are a two man R&D show and they are many more than that.....heck, as big as they are they couldn't even design their own AutoCal type product, a product that has taken so many EFILive users to levels of success they couldn't have imagined if they were just stuck flashing tunes on a laptop.

Regards,
Ross

[GMPX]

A little of topic but pertains to your post, is there any plans to support the 2017 crossover line E82? Some GMC ones got the good LGX motor (same as camaro and Cadillac) I know they Would be a low priority due to the more performance orientated vehicles.
Yes, I think all E82 OS's got finished up last week, there was five in total for 2017 models :Eyecrazy:
Cindy can confirm that as she keeps track of what is supported and outstanding.

[cindy@efilive]

E82 calibration support was added in the September beta software. There are a total of 5 operating systems, 3 of which are in the current beta software.
2016-17 Camaro is supported.
2016-17 Cadillac ATS, CTS are supported.
2017 Colorado and Canyon are supported.

The following vehicles will be in the next software update:
2017 Arcadia
2017 Cadillac XT5, CT6

In addition, based on user feedback a range of additional tables will be available on all OS's for E82 in the next update.

That completes E82 development - there are no outstanding operating systems to support, additional tables will be added based on user request.

Cheers
Cindy

[rcr1978]

E82 calibration support was added in the September beta software. There are a total of 5 operating systems, 3 of which are in the current beta software.
2016-17 Camaro is supported.
2016-17 Cadillac ATS, CTS are supported.
2017 Colorado and Canyon are supported.

The following vehicles will be in the next software update:
2017 Arcadia :notacrook: thanks on this one
2017 Cadillac XT5, CT6

In addition, based on user feedback a range of additional tables will be available on all OS's for E82 in the next update.

That completes E82 development - there are no outstanding operating systems to support, additional tables will be added based on user request.

Cheers
Cindy

Great Job Guys ! Thanks :thumb_yello:

[cindy@efilive]

Great Job Guys ! Thanks :thumb_yello:

Hi Robert,

Please accept my apologies. For some reason I had in the back of my mind that you had a 2017 E78 truck. I had our developer stop mapping E82 and map that E78 thinking it was your OS to get you squared away.

I'll go talk to the developer, when it's ready I'll email you the calz file ahead of the release.

Cheers
Cindy


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[rcr1978]

Thanks Cindy ! :santa1:

[minytrker]

How are you going tuning E80, E82 and E84 with HPT?

Your right we probably won't catch up on historical controllers even if the parameters match completely. Fwiw, there has been huge development undertaken with GM Gas and GM gas transmission support in the last 12 months, there are no outstanding development requests.

All 2017 supported vehicles are on the website, our licensing scheme remains unchanged for them.

Cheers
Cindy


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Most of my tuning is always a model behind, for example I tune more E38's than anything right now, then LS1 pcm's and then E92's. Since we just tune and dont build vehicles we rarely tune a bunch of the newest platform out there. I have only received 2 or 4 calls about tuning E80, E82 and E84 put together.


Ok well first up we never said we would do FORD, Dodge or Mercedes so please don't feel like we've let you down there and nor do we feel we need to "catch up" and add support for those platforms to stay relevant.
If you want to expand your range of tuning vehicles perhaps you need to look in to some of the European tuning software that support countless vehicles types (support is bad and often you are on your own with mapping unless you have deep pockets, but it's an option). Did you know there is a tuning tool for Dodge / Chrysler gas cars that is very, very cheap (out of Russia (http://bitbox.ru/en/catalog/10)), another reason why we wouldn't bother trying to break in to that market.....and this is from someone who owns a HEMI vehicle that I cannot tune. ;)
I feel the "we all had to switch" statement is perhaps an exaggeration, but I am not about to start listing customers who prefer to use our software for E80, E82, E84, E92 etc even though they own both products to prove that it isn't a one way street as you imagine. So yes it is true, rather than become just another player in the already crowded markets (FORD gas for example) we did take some risks and worked on other platforms that had not been done before by software companies which has been perceived as us abandoning our LS1 tuner roots.

I know EFI never said they would support other platforms, dont remember hpt saying they would either. Some of us been around since the beginning with efi and hpt, I bought the first versions of both, both were priced close to the same and were very comparable. After using both and when the V2 came out I invested alot in EFI streams and sold my hpt and used efi only for years because I felt it was the best product out there and had awesome customer service (still do). It seemed like something changed after E38/T43's came out where efi started going a different direction. For all those years I made a living using only efi then I started needing to use hpt more. Its frustrating to have a stream to have a to buy a hpt license to change one table. Then E92's came out and everyone I know who tunes uses hpt on them because of more support.

In what sense do you mean? It is still the usual $125 per vehicle, if it is an ECM that has GM's heightened security (very likely) then you will need an Auth-Code on top of that ($50): Note, this is a manually processed code which is why there is a fee, but this has been detailed in one of our newsletters and in various software updates. So for a 2017 Vette as an example you are up for $175 USD (assuming no discounts applied). I heard it was closer to $300 to tune a 2017 GM gas vehicle with HPT but I might be wrong there, you could probably confirm that if you are using their software.

Yes I was asking about the enhanced, it was $300 initially in hpt but they changed it to $200 now. I wont be doing very many of them for probably a year at least (see replay above) just trying to see what will be my option for them

Ok, I don't view the tuning industry like consumer electronics products, you know the type of person who will only buy Apple everything no matter what other companies might offer on their products. As a tuner I don't think you can afford to lock yourself in to one product, I know many tuners that have 5 or more different tuning packages to cover everything they want to the level they need. EFILive never set out to conquer and support every manufacturer and model out there, sure we took a different direction as far back as 2007/8 when we released LB7 Duramax support. But since then we have not abandoned GM gas as you might think and in many cases new GM gas ECM types have been released much earlier than HPT had support for them which personally I am proud of considering we are a two man R&D show and they are many more than that.....heck, as big as they are they couldn't even design their own AutoCal type product, a product that has taken so many EFILive users to levels of success they couldn't have imagined if they were just stuck flashing tunes on a laptop.

Regards,
Ross

I agree, even the V2 is way better then the hpt interface. Hpt years ago had a hand held at sema but it never came out. I know some people have made alot of money with autocals but I have a very hard time selling them without a wideband hookup. I started adding the plug to them BUT then the cost almost equals someone buying hpt and most of the time thats what they do. Thats just my personal experience with them, like I said I know some people sell them like crazy. There arent alot of us out there who just tune, to be the best (not saying I'm the best) I think you almost need to stick to one software. Its hard to flip flop between different softwares and even harder to switch between vehicle brands and differnt software. Thats one advantage hpt has I think is the layout is the same for everything making it easier to switch if you have to vs learning efi, sct, and diablo, hpt covers the same as all three. Im not bashing efi, with efi I have been able to make a very good living and do alot of cool things over the years. Years ago there were alot of us with efi only, now I dont know anyone with just efi. Thats just my personal experience and opinions based on how I use efi, I know a diesel only tuner or maybe even a big shop would post something completely different.

[GMPX]

Most of my tuning is always a model behind, for example I tune more E38's than anything right now, then LS1 pcm's and then E92's. Since we just tune and dont build vehicles we rarely tune a bunch of the newest platform out there. I have only received 2 or 4 calls about tuning E80, E82 and E84 put together.
And that is the point that is sometimes hard to get across for us, what seems lacking for your own situation is ideal for what others are doing. I don't think for a minute the LS1 PCM is obsolete, especially in the conversion world, but from a survival situation there is no incentive for a company as small as us to dedicate time to it now. At some point all things fade away, there would still be people doing the old small block TPI engines but it isn't what it was back in their hey day.


I know some people have made alot of money with autocals but I have a very hard time selling them without a wideband hookup. I started adding the plug to them BUT then the cost almost equals someone buying hpt and most of the time thats what they do.
Yes I suppose it comes down to volumes and what the market will wear. This was also one of the reasons we changed the Autocal VIN license limit, it allows you to use the Autocal as a tune delivery device and have the customer return the Autocal if they don't want to keep it, that way you don't have to pass the hardware costs on to the customer (I am assuming a remote customer here).
Yes not having the WBO2 input on the AC's is not an ideal situation when tuning remotely, but at the time we probably pictured more the Diesel customer who was used to either buying another ECM ($600+) or sending their ECM off to a select few tuners at the time. So an Autocal at $350ea was a game changer for mail order tuners, whereas the gas guys seemed a lot more DIY or a shop.


I think you almost need to stick to one software. Its hard to flip flop between different softwares and even harder to switch between vehicle brands and differnt software. Thats one advantage hpt has I think is the layout is the same for everything making it easier to switch if you have to vs learning efi, sct, and diablo, hpt covers the same as all three.
I can appreciate that being an issue, I don't know how a lot of the Euro tuners jump between software platforms all the time.


Years ago there were alot of us with efi only, now I dont know anyone with just efi. Thats just my personal experience and opinions based on how I use efi, I know a diesel only tuner or maybe even a big shop would post something completely different.
For gas I would agree, but as I mentioned earlier we never had the vision to cover the big three US manufacturers. Unfortunately many people view that as we dropped the ball or let them down :frown:

[ScarabEpic22]

I agree, even the V2 is way better then the hpt interface. Hpt years ago had a hand held at sema but it never came out. I know some people have made alot of money with autocals but I have a very hard time selling them without a wideband hookup. I started adding the plug to them BUT then the cost almost equals someone buying hpt and most of the time thats what they do. Thats just my personal experience with them, like I said I know some people sell them like crazy.

I can imagine so, especially by the time you spend even 30min on each AutoCal modifying it, any profit on the hardware is gone. Fortunately, now there is an option once AEM releases their 30-0334 wideband. The WBO2 will be delivering data via the OBDII port. It's pretty friggin sweet (I have 2 of their 30-0333 units, getting sent out to get the EFILive compatible firmware), and the WBO2 costs about $200-225 so it's priced comparably to Innovate/etc.

[IdahoRob]

LML wish list:
Minimum vane position table.
Glow plug timer control.

[S Phinney]

LML
Tables to fully control turbo
Tables that fully control tranny


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dmaxink]

Holy crap... I suppose i should log in more often. Let me address a couple of things and also open some minds.

I started doing all of this not knowing a thing and having no money. I didnt have even the money at the time to do the V2 buy in.... Which i understand is in part why fish is gone.. but i wouldnt be here and order 100s of thousands in autocals a month now without the little help in the beginning. I started with nothing.

When there was originally no LML support, we pushed.. we got it done and then thankfully EFI stepped up and allowed us to flash through their software. They then later offered mapping support as well. 100% grateful... but going in to say - these freakin new controllers are VERY difficult to find tables in. I many times work 18+ hours a day trying to just find 1 table. Yea, its that difficult and requires the work to be put in to make it happen... You cant expect Ross to do this every day on the same controller... Hell, the hex address im going to GIVE away in this post will give you total turbo control alone (Ross can add it in later on)... Is it the best way? Not sure, but guess what - it works... and that is something many "tuners" need to learn these days is you can manipulate whatever tables to do things they were not originally designed to do to accomplish your goal. Hell, 1/2 the things i see being requested in here i can do in efilive with ZERO cax or hexwork. If there is something you want added they dont have, start studying the heck out of 2D curves and go to work. thats what I did. I didnt want to wait or have to depend on anyone - OR put all my eggs in 1 basket.. I learned. I'm a 28yr old "Kid" as many say and one of the youngest tuners in the game... There is no excuse for anyone to not be able to make this work as they wish.

EZLYNK - I'll touch on that since we are in the open. The picture that was posted showing to be byte for byte - was indeed NOT a picture taken from ezlynk... who knows what it was taken from - but it didnt match. Ezlynk shared 0% the same source code or data of the Derive stuff as the future results will show. ZERO%. My best friend has worked his tail off on that product and im not here to discuss it, but to throw around a frivolous lawsuit like its fun and games in here isnt too cool when i have watched Brad literally be in tears of exhaustion developing this product the last 3 years. The judge actually stated as well to actually have evidence before bringing the case back in. The TRO was dismissed, there is ZERO % the same... the evidence that was there honestly couldnt even be used because they didnt know where it even came from. PPEI got bundled into the suit simply because we resold the product. Very silly.

EFILIVE - I still sill tons of EFI and i have zero intentions to stop selling EFILIVE. I have a great respect for EFI, Ross, Cindy, Paul, and the whole crew... we have all made each other great finances and have also had (AND STILL HAVE) a great relationship. My loyalty to EFI is still there.. just because you offer more than 1 platform to get things done - does not make you unloyal" by any means. I know Brad has also reached out a few times to EFI to even maybe work with them a little... So there is ZERO bad blood on the EZ vs. EFI - and i want everyone to know that.

LML SOTF - You can do it - it will require additional work to make it solid... Earn it.

Allison Pressure - It is not a easy one to figure out.. Instead of harassing Ross on it... start doing some digging on how the stuff works and give him a hand on it.


-------

Now, since we are here... here is my wishlist:

- Mass script function that works to OS (In the works and i cant wait)
- Lawsuits filed against those infringing all of our hard work by hacking EFI.
- A "DO NOT SELL/BAD TUNER" list for people that get caught stealing stuff.
- People to be more open minded and speak respectful to EFI in general... If only ya'll knew how hard it was to define the maps they do - and do it with such simplicity for us to understand.

This isnt a jab at ANYONE... but just doing google search and my name pops up on this - so read it all.

12660477 - Turbo Control
; Address(es) BitOff Bits Typ Inv
; -------------------------------- ------ ---- --- ---
ADDR = 3FE14E 0 16 SNM 0
;
; Units Factor Offset Prec MinLimit MaxLimit MinUser MaxUser
; -------- -------------- -------------- ---- -------------- -------------- -------------- --------------
SI_SLOT = % 0.01220703125 0 4 -1000 8000 -1000 8000
;
; Units Factor Offset Prec MinLimit MaxLimit MinUser MaxUser
; -------- -------------- -------------- ---- -------------- -------------- -------------- --------------
IM_SLOT = % 0.01220703125 0 4 -1000 8000 -1000 8000

String search and will line up to all other OS.

[Dmaxink]

Who is EZ Lynk anyway...

It's a company based in a tax haven, with no names other than 'EZ Lynk', whose address goes to a Hyundai dealership... Which is probably false. Hmmmmmmmm....


edit: So apparently said dealership does 'own' EZ Lynk. I just can't quite wrap my head around it though... What makes them so special? Why now? Flashing a vehicle isn't exactly something a bunch of techs at a dealership can figure out.

Oh - and just to state..

- Ezlynk was created in Cayman due to their simplicity in dealing international and also tax benefits. There are also actually many names - that is just the one you see.
- EZLYNK has a physical location with over 60 employees. I recommend you take a vist next time you go, its right next to harbor. You will have a new found respect.
- The location is owned by a special economic zone that allows for multiple transactions. There are about 20 buildings there.. Some office and some warehouse.. some both.
-The patent of being cloud based is what makes it special.
- I own real estate there - so that is my brief understanding of how Cayman works.


I wont talk any more about this stuff in EFI Forum... however, too many just talking out the mouth not knowing anything is getting old - blows my mind people express their intelligence so ignorantly.

[GMPX]

People to be more open minded and speak respectful to EFI in general... If only ya'll knew how hard it was to define the maps they do - and do it with such simplicity for us to understand.
Thanks Kory, but it is water off a ducks back when people constantly criticise EFILive (and they do), I accept that not many people actually grasp that you really can spend 12hrs just finding one table only to be met with more complaints.


blows my mind people express their intelligence so ignorantly.
Welcome to the Internet :hihi:

[Dmaxink]

Thanks Kory, but it is water off a ducks back when people constantly criticise EFILive (and they do), I accept that not many people actually grasp that you really can spend 12hrs just finding one table only to be met with more complaints.


Welcome to the Internet :hihi:

Ross,

Sorry for my little rants here... but before people start trying to make it a EFI vs. EZ war.. they need to understand that isnt what this is - and as long as im involved with tuning it wont be.

12hrs at finding 1 table is true.. i took a week vacation to find a stupid minimum actuator bit back in 2013 to make the VGT hit a minimum limit of 40%. I actually melted that sensor while it was on the truck.. literally was smoking like crazy because i threw the voltage at it on accident. 1 stupid bit.. took me a week. Then i just share a nice, functioning sensor interpretation- free. Maybe I need to question my own sanity. lol!

[Snipesy]

"Oh hey thanks Justin for making that Cruze work"

Seriously, I am pretty sure that was the biggest waste of my life ever... Literally hundreds of hours, which may be an understatement, and there is still stuff that doesn't work as nice as it should. Kind of wish I was around five years ago... Could be in on that LML market. Sadly not the case....

Anyway forgive me for questioning what EZ Lynk is. It's not like I can just go on Wikipedia and find the history of EZ Lynk, so I asked a question on the forums, and I got an answer.

[Dmaxink]

"Oh hey thanks Justin for making that Cruze work"

Seriously, I am pretty sure that was the biggest waste of my life ever... Literally hundreds of hours, which may be an understatement, and there is still stuff that doesn't work as nice as it should. Kind of wish I was around five years ago... Could be in on that LML market. Sadly not the case....

Anyway forgive me for questioning what EZ Lynk is. It's not like I can just go on Wikipedia and find the history of EZ Lynk, so I asked a question on the forums, and I got an answer.

No Issue!

[GMPX]

"Oh hey thanks Justin for making that Cruze work"
I'm not sure who that comment was directed at but the people you assisted would be very grateful. It was a platform we didn't pursue because sadly for GM it didn't seem to take off.


Anyway forgive me for questioning what EZ Lynk is. It's not like I can just go on Wikipedia and find the history of EZ Lynk, so I asked a question on the forums, and I got an answer.
I never approached Kory to get the story behind the court case either (none of my business really), we knew the set up of EZ and the brains behind it, but I had no idea there was 60 people working there. Now that Kory has said his bit on it we should not continue to talk about it in here. You can read the court documents and read what Kory said and make your own mind up. It would appear a judge already has so lets move on.

I won't go back and edit the posts as long as people don't continue to talk about it.

[Snipesy]

I'm not sure who that comment was directed at but the people you assisted would be very grateful. It was a platform we didn't pursue because sadly for GM it didn't seem to take off.


Actually I can't really think of anyone it helped. The occasional shop here and there experiments with it for a day and then runs away in terror when they realize how complicated it is. Some people had greater ambitions but I never hear anything back. Even got a few offers but turned them down cause well, weren't good enough or nothing came of them.

If there is someone out there it truly helped, they aren't saying anything about it... Which goes directly against the license but it's not like I can prove that. And that's the problem with this business... I could take Ross's and other's hard work reverse engineering and make my own EFI Live, and there is a very good chance I would get away with simply because good luck holding your ground in court. Would I? No, I have ethics. But not everyone does...

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

LML wish list:
Minimum vane position table.
Glow plug timer control.

There are 3 ( I think they are min or max value tables ) and another smaller table in most of the OS's

I have them mapped already, they do exist if that is what they are.

[rcr1978]

Is anyone willing to post a LML hex/bin file so I can try and learn this stuff? I don't sell tunes so mustering up the 10/15k for the software to get them doesn't make sense on my end unless there is another setup that is more economical I don't know about?

Thanks
Robert

Edit: Did some digging around on here looks like I have a lot to learn and doubtful anyone will post one and I understand why. I tried a little while ago with some simple seadoo files and didn't get far kinda lost focus. I'm sure the LML file is way more complicated.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

LML SOTF - You can do it - it will require additional work to make it solid... Earn it.

Allison Pressure - It is not a easy one to figure out.. Instead of harassing Ross on it... start doing some digging on how the stuff works and give him a hand on it.


-------


- People to be more open minded and speak respectful to EFI in general... If only ya'll knew how hard it was to define the maps they do - and do it with such simplicity for us to understand.

This isn't a jab at ANYONE... but just doing google search and my name pops up on this - so read it all.



The only comment I would make is if I could find the A50/T87 Line pressure controls how is it advantageous to share it, after all it is a nice feature to have all to yourself I would think ?

We have asked for the additional support on the E86A-B and now A50-T87, its clear that Ross has stated he will not revisit these, so if in fact as you stated, its very difficult to find then why would you share it, why would anyone else who put the time in share it ?

Its one thing to ask for some added tables and mapping support from EFI-Live and if they do it great, everyone benefits from it, but it seems, and maybe I read into this wrong, that Ross is not going back to look at this and their additional coder that EFI has employed is going to be handed off the additional mapping responsibilities as time allows, whatever those may be.

So on the one hand everyone ( myself included ) would like additional mapping and table support, but as Ross stated and you, its not easy to find things, so I think we might just have to go it alone it seems based on statements here, and if that is the case why would anyone one of us invest days or weeks of looking to just share it??

Its an observation and a reality check, if its not supported by EFI and rolled out as an update I just don't see anyone sharing anything they have as a competitive advantage, it's not how business works.

I'll be poking around in OLS and Hexworks as time allows, and I agree, 2D view lets you find lots of stuff and once you understand the headers the tables make some sense, its the single bits and other small things that are impossible to find, and the layout in EDC-17 sucks.

Enjoy your weekend guys...........I know I got no interest in sitting on front of the PC looking for anything this weekend.

[Road]

I am wishing Efi Live does not add SOTF. I have spent countless hours getting .BIN files to work with all the different OS. And still have not covered all of them so for Efi to throw it out to the masses would be taking away from the few that have put in the effort. Even if Efi did add it would interesting to see if it is added to the "stock" files. As Kory stated earn it.

[Chavez91]

I am wishing Efi Live does not add SOTF. I have spent countless hours getting .BIN files to work with all the different OS. And still have not covered all of them so for Efi to throw it out to the masses would be taking away from the few that have put in the effort. Even if Efi did add it would interesting to see if it is added to the "stock" files. As Kory stated earn it.

Welcome to the game. As stated, we put countless hours in figuring this stuff out. And sometimes we do this in order to gain just that small time advantage to be first to market. But just because you feel like you haven't had enough time to enjoy it that is justifiable to the time you spend getting it to work, is the risk we take not waiting for EFI to release the feature. Sometimes I've only been months, weeks or even days ahead. There are things I have that will probably never be mapped but this is the risk that's taken investing time to go off on your own. So don't get butthurt if they release it tomorrow. It's how it works for everyone.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

I am wishing Efi Live does not add SOTF. I have spent countless hours getting .BIN files to work with all the different OS. And still have not covered all of them so for Efi to throw it out to the masses would be taking away from the few that have put in the effort. Even if Efi did add it would interesting to see if it is added to the "stock" files. As Kory stated earn it.

Ross has stated he would not for obvious reason, the first one is because I do not think EFI-Live as a company would duplicate something Kory or EZ-Lynk figured out, that gets back to a sticky situation of copying something that is already out there.

It is one thing to map out something that is already there, just finding it and adding it, I see no problem with that.

But duplicating a custom change to enable SOTF.........I do not know how that will be received by some.

But I am not here to judge anyone, just commenting

[GMPX]

We have asked for the additional support on the E86A-B and now A50-T87, its clear that Ross has stated he will not revisit these
BUT, Cindy said we will get our other guy who knows the EDC17 well on to it.


Ross has stated he would not for obvious reason, the first one is because I do not think EFI-Live as a company would duplicate something Kory or EZ-Lynk figured out, that gets back to a sticky situation of copying something that is already out there.
Absolutely correct Tony, unlike some companies out there who have no issue stealing others (our) work to call it their own we aren't like that. Even if Kory told us exactly how he did it and what tables were needed to be added in to the software so everyone could access it I wouldn't do it until it came with a letter to say "here you go EFILive, it's all yours". A clear conscience is a healthy thing to have and I could not sleep at night if we ripped off what Kory / EZ did to get LML SOTF working. I'd rather lose license sales than lose respect from long term customers and be seen as a thief for our own financial gain.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

BUT, Cindy said we will get our other guy who knows the EDC17 well on to it.


Absolutely correct Tony, unlike some companies out there who have no issue stealing others (our) work to call it their own we aren't like that. Even if Kory told us exactly how he did it and what tables were needed to be added in to the software so everyone could access it I wouldn't do it until it came with a letter to say "here you go EFILive, it's all yours". A clear conscience is a healthy thing to have and I could not sleep at night if we ripped off what Kory / EZ did to get LML SOTF working. I'd rather lose license sales than lose respect from long term customers and be seen as a thief for our own financial gain.

Yes Sir !!!

That is how I feel, and yes I am aware your EDC17 Guy will look at E86A-B again.

I know you are not, but its great news that you are having someone knowledgeable look at it.

Much Appreciated !

[1906]

BUT, Cindy said we will get our other guy who knows the EDC17 well on to it.


Absolutely correct Tony, unlike some companies out there who have no issue stealing others (our) work to call it their own we aren't like that. Even if Kory told us exactly how he did it and what tables were needed to be added in to the software so everyone could access it I wouldn't do it until it came with a letter to say "here you go EFILive, it's all yours". A clear conscience is a healthy thing to have and I could not sleep at night if we ripped off what Kory / EZ did to get LML SOTF working. I'd rather lose license sales than lose respect from long term customers and be seen as a thief for our own financial gain.

Ross, I see this mention of stolen work a lot in your posts... Just curious as to what's been stolen?

[GMPX]

Custom operating systems for some older gas cars.

[Tre-Cool]

And that is the point that is sometimes hard to get across for us, what seems lacking for your own situation is ideal for what others are doing. I don't think for a minute the LS1 PCM is obsolete, especially in the conversion world, but from a survival situation there is no incentive for a company as small as us to dedicate time to it now. At some point all things fade away, there would still be people doing the old small block TPI engines but it isn't what it was back in their hey day.


Yes I suppose it comes down to volumes and what the market will wear. This was also one of the reasons we changed the Autocal VIN license limit, it allows you to use the Autocal as a tune delivery device and have the customer return the Autocal if they don't want to keep it, that way you don't have to pass the hardware costs on to the customer (I am assuming a remote customer here).
Yes not having the WBO2 input on the AC's is not an ideal situation when tuning remotely, but at the time we probably pictured more the Diesel customer who was used to either buying another ECM ($600+) or sending their ECM off to a select few tuners at the time. So an Autocal at $350ea was a game changer for mail order tuners, whereas the gas guys seemed a lot more DIY or a shop.


I can appreciate that being an issue, I don't know how a lot of the Euro tuners jump between software platforms all the time.


For gas I would agree, but as I mentioned earlier we never had the vision to cover the big three US manufacturers. Unfortunately many people view that as we dropped the ball or let them down :frown:

I only just caught up on the posts in this thread and just wanted to add some of my own opinions on whats been said and it's not really related to the LML request, but it seems the post is already that far off topic it wont matter now. :w00t:

With the whole ls1 stuff, im happy with it, it really is an old controller now, you guys did the hard yards many years ago with the custom OS stuff. I'm not a big shop by any means, i tune on my weekends for mostly burnout\drag cars or friends in either 8+ year old commodores or transplant cars. so drivability is not a great concern. it's mostly full power, light to medium throttle & upper rpm etc with motor longevity my primary concern.

However I also play with newer cars with the e38/t43 combo's and feel there is maybe some tables/options that would now benefit being added in since come of the cals were first released. I did my small part by buying a t43 stream license to show my support financially and you guys did wonders in "catching up" and updating the calz. So that's appreciated.

As an example i posted the other week asking for a cax for the injectory boundary and thankfully someone in the community here sent it to me. Now this table in itself isn't really required to tune or get power out of a motor, but with tweaking you can essentially get some additional free HP & improved economy.

Basically what im saying is that just like the guys who added in a bunch of extra tables via cax files for the custom os stuff in the ls1, over time people are always looking to improve upon what we do, so start playing with tables we didn't in the past, unfortunately for those who don't have the skills\tools to look up the code it meant we had to use other software to first trial these changes out.

I think the E38 having a stream license like the ls1 you guys might not be seeing how much usage is on them or will be over the next few years, especially once we loose local manufacturing in the next few years and the ve/vf's get cheaper, hell I can pick up v8 ve's now for under 10k. in fact, i picked up a non-registered rolling shell with harness/ecu for $2k a couple of months ago. Over the christmas break im even converting my ls1/m6 VY to E38/T43 (ls3/6l80) combo.

TLDR; Allow for requests for some of the older controllers for missing options. If & when time permits.:rockon:

[rcr1978]

Hell, the hex address im going to GIVE away in this post will give you total turbo control alone (Ross can add it in later on)... Is it the best way? Not sure, but guess what - it works...


12660477 - Turbo Control
; Address(es) BitOff Bits Typ Inv
; -------------------------------- ------ ---- --- ---
ADDR = 3FE14E 0 16 SNM 0
;
; Units Factor Offset Prec MinLimit MaxLimit MinUser MaxUser
; -------- -------------- -------------- ---- -------------- -------------- -------------- --------------
SI_SLOT = % 0.01220703125 0 4 -1000 8000 -1000 8000
;
; Units Factor Offset Prec MinLimit MaxLimit MinUser MaxUser
; -------- -------------- -------------- ---- -------------- -------------- -------------- --------------
IM_SLOT = % 0.01220703125 0 4 -1000 8000 -1000 8000



String search and will line up to all other OS.


Just want to say thanks to Kory for this, I don't have the tools to read out any bin files and dink around that way so I took my chances on this. I took a guess at the size/labels and did make some progress, now I did find that it's not the perfect way and if you get to greedy it will overboost. I'm still messing around with it to get a happy spot between the vains opening up nailing the throttle and overboosting in the upper gears.

[rcr1978]

Here is my wishlist :sleigh:

1.Timing correction tables specifically temperature related ones
2.More airflow tables mostly pertaining to boost and vain position not sure exactly what but something's missing there.

3.Speed limiting functions at least for 2015+ it holds at 98mph no what I monkey with, I believe everything is functional for 14 back not 100% on that but the ones I messed with work.
This one can be taken off the list figured it out.

4. Trans line pressure, I'm sure your tired of hearing about this one.

I'm sure I will think of some more :grin:

Thanks Guys!

Is it possible there are any P.I.D. tables for boost like the ones used for the fuel pressure control?

[cindy@efilive]

Just a quick update. Our gas developer has now been setup to work on LML enhancements. He's been given a consolidated list of 'support requests' from this thread.

Cheers
Cindy

[Snipesy]

Just a quick update. Our gas developer has now been setup to work on LML enhancements. He's been given a consolidated list of 'support requests' from this thread.

Cheers
Cindy

Good luck.

[GMPX]

Yep, no doubt he will love Bosch as much as me when he is done.

[duramaximizer]

Thanks Kory. Can EFI Live let me know when the turbo control has been updated. Thanks!

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

The post Kory made was so that anyone can add in that specific and single table to that LML 0477/2015 OS.

If anyone wishes to compare .BINS and then search in the hex for the similar table in the 2011-2016 OS then that can also be done.

But until EFI-Live revisits the 11-16 OS for LML/LGH you will have to find anything else you want yourself.

Good Luck to you !!!

[Road]

Hope this helps.... There is 4 tables @ 0x0DB7CA

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

There is more than those, also a bunch more single address values as well.

Some OS's have up to 15+ additional tables for vane control as well as some single bit address's

I have picked away at them for the last few years, on some of the OS's the tables are not there or are there and just utilize a different method , as in a column table instead of a 3d table with an X and Y axis.

All in all the more time you spend in HEX the more you learn !!

Happy Mapping

[Road]

All in all the more time you spend in HEX the more you learn !!
You have been picking away. That's awesome.

[duramaximizer]

Anything new?

[cindy@efilive]

Anything new?

I've been on vacation most of this month and returned today. The developer and I have a meeting on Monday to discuss his progress. Last I spoke with him was in March.

Cindy

[GMPX]

He may have also jumped out of a 10th story window by now too, you know, Bosch being so much fun to work on :grin:

[vortecfcar]

Finding the vane min position is the most fun, bought myself a six pack after that one

[Chavez91]

finding the vane min position is the most fun, bought myself a six pack after that one

^^^^^ this!

[rcr1978]

He may have also jumped out of a 10th story window by now too, you know, Bosch being so much fun to work on :grin:

Any progress yet on this or did the guy jump :funnypost:?

[GMPX]

His main focus is gas calibrations and the flood of those keeps arriving on a weekly basis. But I think one of his comments was 'how did you even manage to do what you did, this is horrible' :laugh:

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

His main focus is gas calibrations and the flood of those keeps arriving on a weekly basis. But I think one of his comments was 'how did you even manage to do what you did, this is horrible' :laugh:

Horrible...........nahhhhh, miserable is more like it !!!

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

I know I just found a table the other day.........now just have to try it out and see what it does or doesn't do.

LOL

[staytuned]

Reward for any body willing to help me figure out how to load this into the LML 12669774 and 12646249 guess I'm just not as smart as I thought I was.

[vortecfcar]

What's the bounty?

[SASDakota]

Reward for any body willing to help me figure out how to load this into the LML 12669774 and 12646249 guess I'm just not as smart as I thought I was.

Is this meant to be a Table, switch, or other?

[staytuned]

Kory posted it previously but I cant figure it out. It is suposed to help with the LML vane control. I am having trouble in this area with the vanes going to zero when throtling up and boost comes up slow. I thought this may help me.

[SASDakota]

Kory posted it previously but I cant figure it out. It is suposed to help with the LML vane control. I am having trouble in this area with the vanes going to zero when throtling up and boost comes up slow. I thought this may help me.

If memory serves that was a sensor conversion to voltage. Similar to faking the fca duty/mA.

You have no axis to the data for starters so EFI doesn't know how much data to display from your address. Speaking of, is that a copy of the address Kory posted or do you have the address?

If you do not have the address, talk to vortecfcar about getting the needed information.

[staytuned]

Holy crap... I suppose i should log in more often. Let me address a couple of things and also open some minds.

I started doing all of this not knowing a thing and having no money. I didnt have even the money at the time to do the V2 buy in.... Which i understand is in part why fish is gone.. but i wouldnt be here and order 100s of thousands in autocals a month now without the little help in the beginning. I started with nothing.

When there was originally no LML support, we pushed.. we got it done and then thankfully EFI stepped up and allowed us to flash through their software. They then later offered mapping support as well. 100% grateful... but going in to say - these freakin new controllers are VERY difficult to find tables in. I many times work 18+ hours a day trying to just find 1 table. Yea, its that difficult and requires the work to be put in to make it happen... You cant expect Ross to do this every day on the same controller... Hell, the hex address im going to GIVE away in this post will give you total turbo control alone (Ross can add it in later on)... Is it the best way? Not sure, but guess what - it works... and that is something many "tuners" need to learn these days is you can manipulate whatever tables to do things they were not originally designed to do to accomplish your goal. Hell, 1/2 the things i see being requested in here i can do in efilive with ZERO cax or hexwork. If there is something you want added they dont have, start studying the heck out of 2D curves and go to work. thats what I did. I didnt want to wait or have to depend on anyone - OR put all my eggs in 1 basket.. I learned. I'm a 28yr old "Kid" as many say and one of the youngest tuners in the game... There is no excuse for anyone to not be able to make this work as they wish.

EZLYNK - I'll touch on that since we are in the open. The picture that was posted showing to be byte for byte - was indeed NOT a picture taken from ezlynk... who knows what it was taken from - but it didnt match. Ezlynk shared 0% the same source code or data of the Derive stuff as the future results will show. ZERO%. My best friend has worked his tail off on that product and im not here to discuss it, but to throw around a frivolous lawsuit like its fun and games in here isnt too cool when i have watched Brad literally be in tears of exhaustion developing this product the last 3 years. The judge actually stated as well to actually have evidence before bringing the case back in. The TRO was dismissed, there is ZERO % the same... the evidence that was there honestly couldnt even be used because they didnt know where it even came from. PPEI got bundled into the suit simply because we resold the product. Very silly.

EFILIVE - I still sill tons of EFI and i have zero intentions to stop selling EFILIVE. I have a great respect for EFI, Ross, Cindy, Paul, and the whole crew... we have all made each other great finances and have also had (AND STILL HAVE) a great relationship. My loyalty to EFI is still there.. just because you offer more than 1 platform to get things done - does not make you unloyal" by any means. I know Brad has also reached out a few times to EFI to even maybe work with them a little... So there is ZERO bad blood on the EZ vs. EFI - and i want everyone to know that.

LML SOTF - You can do it - it will require additional work to make it solid... Earn it.

Allison Pressure - It is not a easy one to figure out.. Instead of harassing Ross on it... start doing some digging on how the stuff works and give him a hand on it.


-------

Now, since we are here... here is my wishlist:

- Mass script function that works to OS (In the works and i cant wait)
- Lawsuits filed against those infringing all of our hard work by hacking EFI.
- A "DO NOT SELL/BAD TUNER" list for people that get caught stealing stuff.
- People to be more open minded and speak respectful to EFI in general... If only ya'll knew how hard it was to define the maps they do - and do it with such simplicity for us to understand.

This isnt a jab at ANYONE... but just doing google search and my name pops up on this - so read it all.

12660477 - Turbo Control
; Address(es) BitOff Bits Typ Inv
; -------------------------------- ------ ---- --- ---
ADDR = 3FE14E 0 16 SNM 0
;
; Units Factor Offset Prec MinLimit MaxLimit MinUser MaxUser
; -------- -------------- -------------- ---- -------------- -------------- -------------- --------------
SI_SLOT = % 0.01220703125 0 4 -1000 8000 -1000 8000
;
; Units Factor Offset Prec MinLimit MaxLimit MinUser MaxUser
; -------- -------------- -------------- ---- -------------- -------------- -------------- --------------
IM_SLOT = % 0.01220703125 0 4 -1000 8000 -1000 8000

String search and will line up to all other OS.

This was the original post

[cindy@efilive]

We've spent significant time adding parameter support based on the feedback in this thread. The developer wasn't able to find everything that everyone wanted, but he did make progress. You'll find the updated calz files here for testing. https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?28205-LML-Table-Update-Jan-2018

Cheers
Cindy

[staytuned]

The turbo/boost tables responded as expected and the underboost timing table really helped too ! Thanks.