CM2200 EDA MAF Readings??

[30 RUM]

Okay I will try to keep this short. Diagnosing a problem with a 2011 Ram, not getting full fuel and hitting limiter. Found out to be an Air Limiter (MAF)

Using the EFILive Scan tool V7.5 (before flashing in a csp5 file), leaves a lot to be desired. Which I know that is the main reason for EDA. The MAF reading were very high, as well as rail pressure actual, and desired.
Next using a HP Tuners cable, I was able to read the True MAF flow, which is very low peaks at 10 lbs/m @ WOT. To verify the HP cable MAF readings, I plugged in a wiTECH and it matched on the MAF flow.
Using the HP cable, it shows MAF being low, and charged air (HP calls it Virtual Charged Air) being within range of the charged air map.


Now for my EDA MAF problem,

So I put in a CSP5 file so I could get real time #s. Every thing is in check, temps, tq, pw, timing etc. When checking MAF flow it reads within range of the charged air flow, and not the true MAF flow?? EDA's MAF flow reads in line with HP's Virtual Charged Air, which lines up with the charged air maps in the V7.5 Tune tool.

So 2 things,

1. Can EFILive verify which MAF EDA reports, Charged air, or the True MAF Values,
2. Can EFILive change the way EDA reports in V8's units so they line up with the 7.5 tune tool. In 7.5 the tune file it is kg/min, and in V8 scan we have g/sec, oz/sec, kg/hr, lb/min, and lb/hr. I know it's not a big deal to convert to kg/min, but it would be nice to not have to.

I can post logs if need be of EDA, EFI 7.5, and HP logs if need be to verify the above problems. I did not take any pics of the wiTECH, but they were inline with HP's MAF readings.

Thanks

Sam

[GMPX]

Hi Sam,

EDA reports the measured airflow from the MAF sensor. This value is after some processing in the ECM (filtering etc) but still an indication of what the sensor is reading.
I don't know what "Virtual Charged Air" is supposed to mean, you would have to ask HP what they mean by that. Without stating the obvious, usually a 'virtual' reading is generated by calculating various real inputs to get a result of something that cannot be measured.

1. Can EFILive verify which MAF EDA reports, Charged air, or the True MAF Values.
Yes, as stated above it is the true sensor value.

2. Can EFILive change the way EDA reports in V8's units so they line up with the 7.5 tune tool. In 7.5 the tune file it is kg/min, and in V8 scan we have g/sec, oz/sec, kg/hr, lb/min, and lb/hr. I know it's not a big deal to convert to kg/min, but it would be nice to not have to.
The value in the ECM is kg/min, it was an oversight those units are not in V8 for EDA, we'll add them in.

The way the Cummins controllers report data for scantools is not ideal, in one sense it works well and is really fast when set up correctly (EDA) but using the factory defined data streams you get a whole lot of data even if you only use 20% of what it returns.

Cheers,
Ross

[30 RUM]

Thanks Ross,

Do you know why do we have 2 different MAF's we can measure then? In V7.5 we have Air Flow (caption CF parameter CM.CF) and we also have MAF Flow (caption MAF_CM parameter CM>MAF_CM). The strange this is, it is all over the place in the scans, and is reading crazy high (as well as RP in the other logs), not sure if the data is scaled correctly. Sometimes MAF will read up to 3100 lbs/m. I have 4 logs attached. I should have dug deeper with the wiTECH to see if they list 2 MAF readings as well. I know we have 2 with 7.5 and HP. Also I'm not ruling out a wire or pcm issue, I'm trying to figure out MAF flow. It's just strange that EDA lined up with HP's Virtual, then the wiTECH lined up with their MAF.

Next week I will dig deeper with the wiTECH, I will compare HZ and let you know what I find.

20497204982049920500

Thanks

Sam

[GMPX]

From this you should keep in mind that the wiTECH 'should' be correct as it is the only tool that was developed by the manufacturer.
The only thing I can assume is this 'virtual' sensor is calculated along side the real MAF reading and isn't necessarily used as anything more than a back up to the sensor reading. It would make more sense to believe the real sensor (assuming it is working correctly).

[30 RUM]

So am I to assume EDA may not be accurate then, since it is "Processed" and not the Raw Value? If this is true can you guys add the actual MAF sensor reading and HZ to the EDA suite? It is nice to have for performing diagnostics.

When I get back in town I will confirm everything with the wiTECH. I will also test my 16 and let you guys know what I find.

Thanks

Sam

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[Blacky]

In V8, you can set up your own units and conversions to display PID data (and tune data when the V8 editor is available) in any units that you want. To convert from g/sec to kg/min add these two items to the Edit->Properties->Units tab pages:

20508
Make sure you select "MassTime" for the group so that the new units are offered as a conversion to all the other units in that same group.

20507
The conversion factor is 1g/s = 0.06kg/min

Then, when you select the MAF PID you will see the extra unit selection that you just created.
20509

Unlike V7, when you add user defined units and conversions to V8 they are not overwritten when you update/install the V8 software.

Regards
Paul

[30 RUM]

In V8, you can set up your own units and conversions to display PID data (and tune data when the V8 editor is available) in any units that you want. To convert from g/sec to kg/min add these two items to the Edit->Properties->Units tab pages:

20508
Make sure you select "MassTime" for the group so that the new units are offered as a conversion to all the other units in that same group.

20507
The conversion factor is 1g/s = 0.06kg/min

Then, when you select the MAF PID you will see the extra unit selection that you just created.
20509

Unlike V7, when you add user defined units and conversions to V8 they are not overwritten when you update/install the V8 software.

Regards
Paul

Thanks,

Paul,

When I get back in town, I will verify the Virtual vs Actual sensor readings with the wiTECH.

[GMPX]

So am I to assume EDA may not be accurate then, since it is "Processed" and not the Raw Value? If this is true can you guys add the actual MAF sensor reading and HZ to the EDA suite? It is nice to have for performing diagnostics.
"Processed" typically means filtered (or averaged) readings so you don't get glitches, I wouldn't describe it as not accurate. Unfortunately due to the nature of how the scanning works on these ECM's we can't make a simple change to one or two PID's in EDA without a total update to every CSP OS. Which also means old version aren't compatible with updated PC software, it is annoying but we can only work with what the factory method provides.
What I will do instead is look in to the factory PID group to log what the wiTECH logs for MAF. We didn't include a lot of the factory PID groups because of EDA.

[30 RUM]

Just checking to see if you ever did look more into adding the factory PID group? I know for a fact you can remove the MAF from the air intake and EDA will still show MAF in line with the charge air maps in the tune.

Thanks

Sam

[GMPX]

No sorry I didn't, there is a lot of R&D time that would need to be invested in figuring out all the factory PID groups...time I just don't have at the moment I'm afraid.
I suspect what EDA shows is a default value (calculated) when the MAF is removed.

[30 RUM]

That I understand. If you get time and need something tested just let me know. I have a wiTECH and access to multiple Rams, including my 16.

Thanks

Sam