FIC 1000cc INJECTORS + E85 - 2011 Cad CTS-V 6-speed M/T = Questions

[GR8GAME]

2011 Cadillac CTS-V
6-speed car
33% OD lower pulley. Full Length headers. Brian Tooley Cam. Deatschwerks twin 300c's

I've tuned this car once before where he was having fuel pump issue's. It was on the stock injectors along with the stock fuel pumps.
He ran out of fuel pump. So the customer decided to swap out the fuel pumps for the DW300c's and the modded FPCM. He also decided to add in the E85 sensor and get everything tuned at once.

I made some preliminary dyno pulls with the stock injectors and the E85 to make sure everything was working good...which it was! I was not taking the car up that high in RPM due to the lack of injector. So I kept it under 4k RPM's with no real issue.

I swap injectors....
Fuel Injection Connection 1000cc injectors

I have NO experience with these injectors. But the data sheet I received from them seemed to be of good quality even taking the time to explain how to get a 100+lb injector to work in a processor that only supports up to a 60lb injector. Now, I'm an ID1000 fan! They look like ID1000's, without the cost. But, I figured with good injector data....

So, I decided to give it a shot....and I ran into issue's!!!!!!!!!!!

So, I'm getting really inconsistent A/F readings on the dyno. One pull i'm at 11.5-11.7. The next pull it goes into the 12's....

Does anyone have any experience with the FIC injectors?
Would someone mind taking a look at my file and letting me know where I went wrong?

I only scaled it back 20%. I wanted to go slow with tuning and I didn't want to loose my resolution so I figured I would go slow and easy and scale back my airflow tables accordingly as needed.

Thank you for the help!



2053520536

[joecar]

Can you also post the before file (so I can verify the scaling).

Do the AFR's vary like that at idle only, or thru out the rpm range...?

Your B4001 indicates that the FPR is un-referenced, I take it that this is so.

[GR8GAME]

2054020540

I think I attached it twice.

Ok, with the cam, I see a wide swing on the W/B. I don't worry too much about that.

During the pull, I'm seeing a swing from one pull to the next. First pull will be 11.5 - 11.8. Second pull (not touching or flashing the ECU) I see 11.5 - 12.3
Then, when I hit about 4000 RPM's, it goes really rich.
So I'm not sure I got my scaling correct. Or if I'm missing something....

B4001 - You are correct!
The fuel pumps mess with the FPCM.

[GR8GAME]

Just thinking here...
FIC injectors are just modified stock injectors. They use a "stock" OEM and modify them.

What do you think if I just put the injector data back to stock? Then max out the injector size perimeter (sorry, I don't have the table number right in front of me). Then scale the MAF back accordingly.
Now...that's going to change my load! So I may have to go through the spark tables and multipliers! But that's ok!

How's my thinking on this?
Has this ever been done before with these injectors?

[DrkPhx1]

The E67 has a limit of 127lb so you shouldn't have to scale the injector flow base. Don't put the stock injector back in; use the FIC provided data. Some tuners even use the ID1000 data for these injectors.

[GR8GAME]

Thank you for the response.

I came to that same conclusion after some trial and error along with analyzing the Delta kPa table.

And I'm glad I'm not the only one that wouldn't use "stock" injector data! That just seems stupid to me.
I plugged in the FIC data. Good tip on the ID thing though. They look damn near identical.

[GR8GAME]

I do need some more help.

Anyone familiar with Parameter: B8024 and B8025? High Speed Mode Enter/Exit?

I set it sky high and the car flat lines during a pull at 4k RPM's (which, coincidentally, is the stock setting).
I set it at 1800 and my A/F's go RICH and the car has NO power.

So I'm wondering where these tables tie in.
What do they do?

Any insight would be appreciated.

[DrkPhx1]

I do need some more help.

Anyone familiar with Parameter: B8024 and B8025? High Speed Mode Enter/Exit?

I set it sky high and the car flat lines during a pull at 4k RPM's (which, coincidentally, is the stock setting).
I set it at 1800 and my A/F's go RICH and the car has NO power.

So I'm wondering where these tables tie in.
What do they do?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Don't set it higher than stock; if anything you might have to lower them depending on the car and mods. Those are set points that determines when the ECM switches to and from the MAF exclusively. I have a heavily modded ZL1 and set it at 2200/2300. Car runs fine. I also tune my friend's 09 CTS-V and have it set higher (but lower than stock).

[GR8GAME]

Don't set it higher than stock; if anything you might have to lower them depending on the car and mods. Those are set points that determines when the ECM switches to and from the MAF exclusively. I have a heavily modded ZL1 and set it at 2200/2300. Car runs fine. I also tune my friend's 09 CTS-V and have it set higher (but lower than stock).

Awesome information...I appreciate it!

Also, I input the ID1000 data for shit's and giggles...what a difference!!!! The STFT and LTFT are a LOT closer and there isn't any sort of "misfire" feel, if you will. It's steady as can be and drives like a stock injector.
My modified FIC injector data was, about, the same way. The thing is, I don't feel I should have to modify the injector data (except for, maybe, pressure differential) when they cost this much and come with "data". And both ways feel a TON better then the "stock" injector data modified for just flow rate (which is what was in this vehicle from another tuner).

So, any other tips you want to throw my way?
I'm down to listen...Hahahahaha.

[DrkPhx1]

It's not unusual to have to tweak the data. I've tuned both FIC and ID injectors and had to tweak data in both cases.. no big deal. Your commanded lambda at WOT is rich; shoot for .75-.78. The log shows .66. You can run a little more timing with E85 even with 15 psi of boost and also smooth/fill the WOT region of the spark table so there are no dips at WOT.

[DrkPhx1]

Some quick observations. First you need to charge the Spark Axis above the 1.36 default. In your log, it's at 1.54 at 4600 rpms, so you need to log all the to redline and adjust it accordingly. Then you need add spark values to the newly added cells. Looks like you're adding spark at WOT through the IAT table. You need add spark values into the Flex Fuel Table (B5114) and also add values into Flex Fuel Multiplier table (B5145) so the ECM uses those factors (or %) of the Ethanol Spark values and adds them to the main spark tables for the final number.

[joecar]

...

Anyone familiar with Parameter: B8024 and B8025? High Speed Mode Enter/Exit?

...These set the Dynamic Airflow RPM disable/enable rpm threshold...

rpm hitting or exceeding B8024 disables Dynamic Airflow mode.
rpm dropping below B8025 enables Dynamic Airflow mode.

Dynamic Airflow mode disabled: ECM uses MAF-only.
Dynamic Airflow mode enabled: ECM uses MAF for steady state airflow and VE for transient airflow.


Like DrkPhx said, don't set B8024 higher (unless you have VVE/VE corrected up there, but even so, MAF works better at high rpm).

You can disable VE by setting B8024 and B8025 to zero (or say 20 rpm and 10 rpm).

[GR8GAME]

These set the Dynamic Airflow RPM disable/enable rpm threshold...

rpm hitting or exceeding B8024 disables Dynamic Airflow mode.
rpm dropping below B8025 enables Dynamic Airflow mode.

Dynamic Airflow mode disabled: ECM uses MAF-only.
Dynamic Airflow mode enabled: ECM uses MAF for steady state airflow and VE for transient airflow.


Like DrkPhx said, don't set B8024 higher (unless you have VVE/VE corrected up there, but even so, MAF works better at high rpm).

You can disable VE by setting B8024 and B8025 to zero (or say 20 rpm and 10 rpm).


PERFECT
I have a better understanding now.
Makes sense with how my AF is reacting now.

I'm going to have to post my file again. I've made some changes and the car is running a lot better...until I ran into a misfire!!!!

[joecar]

what caused the misfire...?

[GR8GAME]

I'm not sure
I messaged the file and made a pull. The dyno graph looked perfect and I felt positive we had solved the problem.
I made some changes to the MAF (just slightly) and made another pull and felt the misfire a few times during the next pull (and saw it on the dyno graph)

I'm going to pull the plugs tomorrow and see what's going on.

[GR8GAME]

what caused the misfire...?

Spark Plugs.

I didn't build this car, the customer did. So I got frustrated and pulled the plugs. TR7IX gapped at .040
I put in new ones gapped at .030 and it's been a LOT better.

Ok, I'm getting a MAF/MAP correlation error
I HATE just disabling tables that don't need to be. I would rather leave in SOME sort of safety net.

Any advice on table number:
C0801 thru C0806?

I don't want to max these out if I don't have too.

[GR8GAME]

20549

Ok, I'm at my wits end here.
The car will just NOT spin past 5k RPM's in 4th or 5th gear.
This is a 6 speed car.
2WD Dyno!

I'm hoping I hit all of my triggers, parameters and everything else I could think of to shut off!!!!!!

Any help would be appreciated.

And no, I haven't adjust the spark table. That's about it.

[DrkPhx]

Spark Plugs.

I didn't build this car, the customer did. So I got frustrated and pulled the plugs. TR7IX gapped at .040
I put in new ones gapped at .030 and it's been a LOT better.

Ok, I'm getting a MAF/MAP correlation error
I HATE just disabling tables that don't need to be. I would rather leave in SOME sort of safety net.

Any advice on table number:
C0801 thru C0806?

I don't want to max these out if I don't have too.

Good job. I'm amazed at how many of these modded ZL1/CTS-V's run such a large spark plug gap. I gap mine at .032 (same plug).

- Leave C0801-C0802 stock. At your boost level you need to increase the values in C0803-C0806 by quite a bit because the engine is seeing significantly more airflow at a higher rate. Otherwise, it will trigger those codes and in some cases send it in to limp mode. How much you increase the values depends on your specific car.

[DrkPhx]

20549

Ok, I'm at my wits end here.
The car will just NOT spin past 5k RPM's in 4th or 5th gear.
This is a 6 speed car.
2WD Dyno!

I'm hoping I hit all of my triggers, parameters and everything else I could think of to shut off!!!!!!

Any help would be appreciated.

And no, I haven't adjust the spark table. That's about it.

Does it hit 5000 rpm limit on the street or only on the dyno? Look at the values in B5212 and B5203. Personally I would leave B5212 stock. B5213 is a cold engine rev limiter based on ECT & engine run time in seconds. I've never hit the cold rev limiter on the street, but hit it a few times on the dyno. If you start the engine and go WOT right away it will hit this limiter.

[DrkPhx]

FYI - the flex fuel spark table is an "adder" table meaning the values in that table is added to the main spark tables based on the factor in the Flex Fuel Spark Multiplier. This allows you to fine tune the spark based on ethanol content. Your Multiplier table is zero for all values which means the ECM will not use the spark values in the Flex Fuel Spark table (which has the same exact values as the high octane table).

[joecar]

I sse table B5203 has several cells set to 5000 rpm (or lower).

[joecar]

When it refuses to spin higher than 5K rpm, does it throw any DTC's...?

[joecar]

What g/s airflow are you seeing (post some logs)...?

[joecar]

If you're exceeding 512 g/s then you will have to scale...

as an experiment try either of these:
- scale by 0.5 on MAF and VE/VVE, and by 2.0 on Stoich AFR B3671,
- scale by 0.5 on MAF and VE/VVE and IFR (I don't remember if B1210 needs editing, I'm just going blank...),

( and you may/will have to shift any table that references mass or mass/time )